Well, I’ve read everything and now I’m going to make some of my own thoughts because, I came here to try to make a change in this deck, it’s a good deck but, some “dogmas” must be changed:
At first, I thought the deck needed better spells, to grind better, more 2 for 1 spells maybe... and I had a card in my mind but couldn’t fit it in the deck in the way I wanted and after a few tests... I ended testing Whispers of Emrakul in a Jund DS... and I LOVE IT!
Of course I made some drastic such as Tarfire over Bolt... yes I did, but it was for the sake of a turn 2 Delirium, and most of times I have it, a “Hymn to tourach” ok turn 2 sometimes helps you a lot
For now it’s the version of the deck that I have the better results, but I do want to play some “classic, but changed” Jund, I still have some ideas and I’ll be taking lots of ideas from here as well
I must say that I'm still a little skeptical of Tracker over Bob, but even more about no BBE, but truth be told, I think it's worth trying if you're having results, why not, could you please share your list?
@Delver I guess my question at this point is: what is the “problem” with jund then? Because you keep mentioning “card filtering” (which in my mind means finding very specific cards for specific situations) which is very easy to fix by simply playing a bigger and more complementary spread of disruption spells. I feel like we must have a different idea of what the problem with Jund is. Personally, I don’t think it’s filtering as much as it is the card choice.
I personally think the real problem with Jund is that we’ve all been lulled into deckbuilding conventions that don’t work anymore. Mardu used to be a deck just like Jund. It played 4 bobs, and a slew of planeswalkers and grindy value spells. It took basically reinventing the whole deck for mardu to become what it is today, and I think Jund is in the same spot where we need to reinvent the deck. For instance, in my playtesting experience:
-dark confidant and BBE are underwhelming. Just play cards that are powerful in their own right. If I play a BBE or a bob and find nothing but air, I have a bear and I probably lose. That, IMO, is the biggest jund problem right now: half or more of the creatures in your average Jund deck don’t really do anything on their own.
-Liliana of the veil is not what she used to be, and Liliana the last hope is no better. They’re both excellent cards, but they’re both situational and by no means 4-of worthy anymore.
-cards like tracker, lavamancer, collective brutality I think are all traditional sideboard cards that are more powerful and flexible than people give them credit. In the current meta I think there’s a very strong case to be made for maindecking these cards, especially tracker which I think should be the new engine to build jund around.
Just to name a few.
I've been following this forum for quite a time, but just now that I already have the deck I'm confident to post here, and truth be told, I agree with most of what you said, mainly with the part of "more flexible spells", I'm not sure if it's time for more 2 for 1 spells or even a better "draw engine" or even... and different approach, but as I said previously... the deck must change.
I made a few different Jund lists, with slight differences and one Jund DS, with no Bob and no BBE... and it was the one with better results, but it helped me to see some interesting things:
- Dark Confidant: I think he's kind of overrated too, right now I'm running 3 in my "midrange Jund" I know it's a valuable card, but not what I expected
- BBE: is 8 or 80, it's the card that helps me to keep pressuring or... it's the card that does nothing with the cascade and it's a fantastic chump, this second case it rather difficult to happen but... it still happens and also... it's not interesting to be revealed with Bob... 4 damage in the mid-late game is brutal.
- Tracker: Sometimes I miss some aggressive stance and really prefer the Rabblemaster but, in all other situations he's amazing, I'm running 2 and found out thanks to him that Chandra ToD + Tracker is an amazing combination (I don't have Lili tLH), a counter + draw with all mana open is something to think about.
- Liliana of the Veil: is still good for me, but since the matches are more grindy sometimes I wish to not activate her +1, but now I'm running 3.
Conclusion/Summary:
My game notes were focused on seeing how my mana denial plan went, but that was just my note taking. I played it out like a normal Jund game, but it certainly felt great having the additional avenue of attack and it definitely slowed my opponent down when I drew fulminator. Ghost quarter alone, is not enough to slow then down, but it was definitely a shock to my opponents when I get the line: Fulminator your Dual Land > Ghost Quarter your Basic > 2nd Ghost Quarter the basic you just fetched (or Excavator + Ghost Quarter).
Card Selection issue is still there a bit (felt it the most in my game vs. Humans first game), but Bob was great helping me draw me out of trouble.
I'd probably consider adding another Excavator and an extra LtLH in the Board. Tracker coming in vs. Jeskai makes the match up feel so great though, so would probably have to cut the Hazoret and Thrun (which I never saw).
I thought on something similar but truth be told I think it's time to change Jund the deck has potential but some kind of new approach is also valid
The disrupt plan is amazing, but what about this + aggression? Something like Rabblemaster, do you think it's worth trying?
2 Dreadbore / 0 Terminate / 2 Fatal Push
I left 2 pushes as my instant removal and put dreadbore over terminate just to have more flex cards.
At first, I thought the deck needed better spells, to grind better, more 2 for 1 spells maybe... and I had a card in my mind but couldn’t fit it in the deck in the way I wanted and after a few tests... I ended testing Whispers of Emrakul in a Jund DS... and I LOVE IT!
Of course I made some drastic such as Tarfire over Bolt... yes I did, but it was for the sake of a turn 2 Delirium, and most of times I have it, a “Hymn to tourach” ok turn 2 sometimes helps you a lot
For now it’s the version of the deck that I have the better results, but I do want to play some “classic, but changed” Jund, I still have some ideas and I’ll be taking lots of ideas from here as well
I must say that I'm still a little skeptical of Tracker over Bob, but even more about no BBE, but truth be told, I think it's worth trying if you're having results, why not, could you please share your list?
I've been following this forum for quite a time, but just now that I already have the deck I'm confident to post here, and truth be told, I agree with most of what you said, mainly with the part of "more flexible spells", I'm not sure if it's time for more 2 for 1 spells or even a better "draw engine" or even... and different approach, but as I said previously... the deck must change.
I made a few different Jund lists, with slight differences and one Jund DS, with no Bob and no BBE... and it was the one with better results, but it helped me to see some interesting things:
- Dark Confidant: I think he's kind of overrated too, right now I'm running 3 in my "midrange Jund" I know it's a valuable card, but not what I expected
- BBE: is 8 or 80, it's the card that helps me to keep pressuring or... it's the card that does nothing with the cascade and it's a fantastic chump, this second case it rather difficult to happen but... it still happens and also... it's not interesting to be revealed with Bob... 4 damage in the mid-late game is brutal.
- Tracker: Sometimes I miss some aggressive stance and really prefer the Rabblemaster but, in all other situations he's amazing, I'm running 2 and found out thanks to him that Chandra ToD + Tracker is an amazing combination (I don't have Lili tLH), a counter + draw with all mana open is something to think about.
- Liliana of the Veil: is still good for me, but since the matches are more grindy sometimes I wish to not activate her +1, but now I'm running 3.
I thought on something similar but truth be told I think it's time to change Jund the deck has potential but some kind of new approach is also valid
The disrupt plan is amazing, but what about this + aggression? Something like Rabblemaster, do you think it's worth trying?