First, do you know what story beats are? Do you understand that the word "similar" doesn't mean "exactly the same"? I have to take your post as being intentionally sarcastic and flippant, because otherwise I'd have to be sorry for you.
Yes, their story beats are comparable. They both start off in a friendly relationship to a main character (Loki a brother, Lili a lover), betray that character, end up working for the over arching big bad (Thanos, Bolas), leave the employ of the big bad, team up with the hero/heroes again, pretending to be reformed while plotting to use the hero/heroes for their own ends (escaping prison and replacing Odin for Loki, killing her demons for Lili), and betrays the hero/heroes AGAIN. It may diverge from here, depending on whether Lili ends up dying to Bolas and if that is a wasted sacrifice or not.
And second, try reading posts before beclowning yourself in your response. I was clearly talking about the MCU version of Loki, which is why I wrote MCU Loki. Not mythological Loki. Not comics Loki. MCU Loki. Pulling tales from the Eddas to argue your point isn't clever, its insipid. Its like someone talking about Joffrey on Game of Thrones and you chiming in with stories about Henry VI.
When people usually say a "Loki character" they mean "a trickster character" the fact you didn't even grasp that makes me question how you missed Qaangalix's original point and how they made use of the literature version is just as valid. Also Liliana is actually a Faustian character, get it right.
I would Mulligan away a Turn 1 Necro. If it came down to 1 land, a ritual and Necro with no other relevant plays in my hand if I end up whiffing, I would absolutely shuffle that one away.
This is a bad argument.
Reason 1: You mulligan'd to 3 cards, mulliganing that away has a greater risk of bricking your hand.
Reason 2: You are, at worst, experiencing a temporary setback. You can spend 8 life at instant speed to get a full grip of cards.
Reason 3: If you can T1 Necro, you can pay 8 life. As you are only spending 8 life for an 4 card lead instead of 4 Life for a 4 card lead, 4 life difference.
Quote from Buffsam89 »
And that wasn’t a parting shot. It’s pretty clear that this discussion has gone past the point of no return, it’s as I said it is, Mental Gymnastics. What’s the point in having to create hypothetical scenarios just to explain a point, only because both sides are entrenched in “No, You’re Wrong!” Mode. It’s like a game of “Is it Broken!”. Nearly every card in the M:TG library can be broken, one way or another. It’s just a matter of where you draw the line on how many hoops you’re willing to jump through to achieve “Broken”.
That is just hyperbolic rhetoric as there is a long list of cards that are just absolutely terrible in Commander.
Just a tip, he didn't say those were the only three cards, he said no other relevant plays in hand. If the other 4 cards were 3+ mana, or there were a couple answers in there he wouldn't want to fire off early just to avoid discarding them, then that means there aren't any other relevant plays in his hand beyond the swamp, the rit, and the necro. So he'd play the swamp and rit and necro, then pay 3 life to draw 3 and basically be where he would have been had he played a swamp and passed with a normal hand. If that doesn't matter, he'll gain a long term advantage from seeing so many cards, but in a long game he's also giving up normal draw, so the advantage is less than when you draw a bunch off of necro right away and can use in right away. In a competitive meta, you aren't worried about going long, but if he plays games that tend to last awhile he's going to end up paying a lot of life for what he's getting, and not getting anywhere near as far ahead as necro normally would get you. Meanwhile, if necro gets removed he's probably boned.
Both statements are correct though.
He could mulligan down to 3 or have a 7 card hand. The remaning 1-4 cards in their hand and what they draw off a necropotence are in fact wild cards. Since we have "opponents" we could run in circles in the discussion of whats and ifs, but we would have to know our "opponents" and said "opponents" are also wild cards. Did they keep their opening hand? How many times did they mulligan? What did they draw? What is the turn order? Does Sam get an okay set of draws? Does Sam mana flood? Did he get completely mana screwed? We don't even know what the enemy commanders are or how competitive his opponents are. We can't and won't know. Sam might as well be goldfishing with his imaginary "opponents".
Far too many variables left in the air, which is why its a bad argument.
I do wonder if the Guilds of Ravnica will enter this story arc straight split between Team Bolas and Team Jace....
Ral is on the payroll but he is not running his guild ala Vraska.
But Ral can easily be the what have I done character who has a change of heart and gets killed for it.
I wonder when Bolas strikes down Niz in this story.
Depends on what parun Niv-Mizzet thinks of Nicol Bolas. Has a deal been secretly brokered? Does Niv-Mizzet hate a dragon smarter than he? Has their been a recent change in the power structure where Ral is now leading Izzet? As Jace is going to conspire with Niv-Mizzet.
I would Mulligan away a Turn 1 Necro. If it came down to 1 land, a ritual and Necro with no other relevant plays in my hand if I end up whiffing, I would absolutely shuffle that one away.
This is a bad argument.
Reason 1: You mulligan'd to 3 cards, mulliganing that away has a greater risk of bricking your hand.
Reason 2: You are, at worst, experiencing a temporary setback. You can spend 8 life at instant speed to get a full grip of cards.
Reason 3: If you can T1 Necro, you can pay 8 life. As you are only spending 8 life for an 4 card lead instead of 4 Life for a 4 card lead, 4 life difference.
Quote from Buffsam89 »
And that wasn’t a parting shot. It’s pretty clear that this discussion has gone past the point of no return, it’s as I said it is, Mental Gymnastics. What’s the point in having to create hypothetical scenarios just to explain a point, only because both sides are entrenched in “No, You’re Wrong!” Mode. It’s like a game of “Is it Broken!”. Nearly every card in the M:TG library can be broken, one way or another. It’s just a matter of where you draw the line on how many hoops you’re willing to jump through to achieve “Broken”.
That is just hyperbolic rhetoric as there is a long list of cards that are just absolutely terrible in Commander.
So is Bolas farming sparks?
I agree that Lili is probably gonna die or something, and I can’t really say I’ll care too much. But then that seems unlikely given she’s one of the faces of Magic.
Garruk was one of the faces of magic, then he got replaced with Nissa. If hey want a replacement for Liliana, there is always Vraska who plays into the "Monstrous Looks, Inner Beauty" trope which is opposite of Liliana's "Outer Beauty, Inner Monster".
As for Nicol Bolas farming sparks, yeah I could see it as he wants to be an old walker again.
Like where is the part where giants wanted to marry Chandra so Liliana dresses Gideon in drag to look like Chandra but as a ruse to recover his weapon which the giants have?
Or where is the epic roast from Liliana in the feast hall and then Gideon shows up and chases out Liliana, she turns into a fish, Jace and Gideon find her very easily?
Or where is the one where the gatewatch didn't want to pay the giants for construction, so Liliana sneakily decided turn herself into a horse, get chased by a male horse, destroy the giants works, then later on gave birth to a 8-legged horse?
Where is the part where Liliana killed Josu with a mistletoe arrow that was shot by Nissa? Along with, where is the part where Josu could come back to life if everyone felt sad and wanted him back, but Liliana didn't and so Josu never came back?
Where is the part where Liliana gave birth to a serpent that could wrap around an entire plane?
What of the one where Liliana gave birth to a daughter who would control the underworld?
How about of how Liliana tricked two dwarves who were master craftsman into making Gideon's weapon in the first place but also had transformed into a fly and kept biting them?
How about the one where Liliana tried to beat a fire giant in an eating contest?
You saying that these are the story beats of Loki are comparable to Liliana?
Would 100% read those story articles if that was happening.
Ah, gotcha. It's a bit weird. It seems remarkably stupid of Lili not to realise, to be honest. Makes you seriously question her intelligence. Which is why I wonder whether Bolas has done something to her that would mean she doesn't realise what she's doing.
Could be the work of the contract. Like a hidden bit of mind magic that subtly pushes her into going after her demons. With the demons dead, Nicol Bolas would have less competition and a new pawn at his disposal. Maybe even the magic the demons had in order to continue granting the benefits to Liliana, as if she refuses she risks rapidly aging into just bone dust on the spot. Seems like a very Nicol Bolas thing to do.
Best case scenario, Jace knows about the contract. Otherwise its mostly just speculation from the characters if there is even a connection of Nicol Bolas, Liliana, and the demons.
The change in the scene with Jace is different, but makes far more sense in retrospective than the original segment from "Wool over their Eyes" which had only featured Jace and Gideon and a previously unnamed Jaya. There was no Jhoira or Teferi or Raff or Liliana or Karn or Tiana or Shanna or Chandra in "Wool over their Eyes" on the Weatherlight in that scene and no name drop of the Weaterlight itself. It is a retcon I will give you that, but its a retcon that makes far more sense given the context of the story running in Dominaria as the original version was meant to be a teaser and get people talking about the next set/plane.
There's just one small problem: With all that Jace had experienced on Ixalan, his behaviour during the RIX version actually made sense. Here it was less "I'm so glad to see you guys again (except Lili, of course)" and more "Hey what's up? I need you guys to help me with this." This is a blatant continuity error. If the conversation transitioned from the initial mirth we saw in the RIX version to this grim exchange of words, especially after noticing Liliana's presence, then it would mesh better.
You know what? I agree with you. If the RIX version hinted more at this all and the DOM version clarified more, it would be much smoother in transition.
Quote from Etherium Sage »
Also some guy in the MTG Reddit brought up an interesting point I didn't even consider: Now that Liliana knows that Jace knows that Bolas has a planeswalker trap, what if Bolas extracts this information from her and realizes that Jace knows about the Immortal Sun? If so, then he'd also figure out that something is fishy with Vraska.
With how Nissa, Ajani, and Jace all being used I would say its a possibility at least. As N/A/J basically say "Liliana, abandon your quest" with Liliana showing anger multiple times and brazenly wanting to continue in slaying Belzenok in what she believes in being free of the veil so she can fight Nicol Bolas at her full strength. We, the audience, know that won't be the case due to In Bolas's Clutches. So I see Nicol Bolas might become suspicious or be to prideful to actually care.
I think the episode was quite enjoyable. I personally enjoyed the part with Chandra and Multani, it shows real character growth and how she is actually branching off from Jaya even if she wants to learn from her. This is either the longest buildup or the longest con for Chandra becoming red-green.
The whole Cylix/Sylex thing doesn't bother me, apparently I'm alone in that view.
The change in the scene with Jace is different, but makes far more sense in retrospective than the original segment from "Wool over their Eyes" which had only featured Jace and Gideon and a previously unnamed Jaya. There was no Jhoira or Teferi or Raff or Liliana or Karn or Tiana or Shanna or Chandra in "Wool over their Eyes" on the Weatherlight in that scene and no name drop of the Weaterlight itself. It is a retcon I will give you that, but its a retcon that makes far more sense given the context of the story running in Dominaria as the original version was meant to be a teaser and get people talking about the next set/plane.
Addendum: You are thinking of spells with modes as copying them does indeed copy the mode chosen. Like if I cast Cryptic Command, chose Draw and Bounce, then used Twincast. The copy of CC will also have Draw and Bounce as its modes.
He could mulligan down to 3 or have a 7 card hand. The remaning 1-4 cards in their hand and what they draw off a necropotence are in fact wild cards. Since we have "opponents" we could run in circles in the discussion of whats and ifs, but we would have to know our "opponents" and said "opponents" are also wild cards. Did they keep their opening hand? How many times did they mulligan? What did they draw? What is the turn order? Does Sam get an okay set of draws? Does Sam mana flood? Did he get completely mana screwed? We don't even know what the enemy commanders are or how competitive his opponents are. We can't and won't know. Sam might as well be goldfishing with his imaginary "opponents".
Far too many variables left in the air, which is why its a bad argument.
Reason 1: You mulligan'd to 3 cards, mulliganing that away has a greater risk of bricking your hand.
Reason 2: You are, at worst, experiencing a temporary setback. You can spend 8 life at instant speed to get a full grip of cards.
Reason 3: If you can T1 Necro, you can pay 8 life. As you are only spending 8 life for an 4 card lead instead of 4 Life for a 4 card lead, 4 life difference.
That is just hyperbolic rhetoric as there is a long list of cards that are just absolutely terrible in Commander.
Alive: Jace, Chandra, Nissa, Vraska
Unknown: Koth, Elspeth, Sorin, Kiora, Tibalt, Garruk, etc.
As for Nicol Bolas farming sparks, yeah I could see it as he wants to be an old walker again.
With how Nissa, Ajani, and Jace all being used I would say its a possibility at least. As N/A/J basically say "Liliana, abandon your quest" with Liliana showing anger multiple times and brazenly wanting to continue in slaying Belzenok in what she believes in being free of the veil so she can fight Nicol Bolas at her full strength. We, the audience, know that won't be the case due to In Bolas's Clutches. So I see Nicol Bolas might become suspicious or be to prideful to actually care.
The whole Cylix/Sylex thing doesn't bother me, apparently I'm alone in that view.
The change in the scene with Jace is different, but makes far more sense in retrospective than the original segment from "Wool over their Eyes" which had only featured Jace and Gideon and a previously unnamed Jaya. There was no Jhoira or Teferi or Raff or Liliana or Karn or Tiana or Shanna or Chandra in "Wool over their Eyes" on the Weatherlight in that scene and no name drop of the Weaterlight itself. It is a retcon I will give you that, but its a retcon that makes far more sense given the context of the story running in Dominaria as the original version was meant to be a teaser and get people talking about the next set/plane.
Addendum: You are thinking of spells with modes as copying them does indeed copy the mode chosen. Like if I cast Cryptic Command, chose Draw and Bounce, then used Twincast. The copy of CC will also have Draw and Bounce as its modes.
Combo Example 1: Enduring Renewal + Carnival of Souls + Death Cultist
Combo Example 2: Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek + Carnival of Souls