In fairness you should be killing infect creatures on your turn anyway. Getting blown out by a pump spell or blossoming defense in response to removal is pretty awful while they're attacking you.
Even if they do the exact same thing on your turn then they aren't getting any benefit from the pump, they just get to keep the creature, but then they're down a spell.
This is the list I've been trying out recently. I'm not really sure about the main board kambal and some of the sideboard slots though.
I will say I'm not really sold on bridge or sorin solemn visitor. Bridge seems super awkward a lot of the time and that sorin is less than impressive if you have little to no board presence.
As far as matchups have been, combo and midrange have felt quite favorable, UW control has been even to slightly favored, but I've been getting steamrolled pretty hard by humans. If anyone has some advice for sideboarding or how to approach aggro matchups that would be awesome.
One final note, the Gideons have been well worth the slots so far. 4-mana Gideon in particular is very nice to have in tandem with sorin and lingering souls against UW as sources of creature production past all the boardwipes.
Edit:upon further testing I just wasn't sideboarding heavily enough for humans/aggro in general.
So it is quite well known that punisher cards are bad, however, if ever there was a playable one this would be it.
The fact that is has what amounts to flashback just might make it good enough to use as maybe a 2-of.
Choosing to be domed for a total of 8 damage between both uses seems pretty rough unless you're playing martyr proc and letting this deck draw 6 cards is just plain incorrect unless taking the damage would kill you.
At a minimum I think it's worth trying out for a bit.
As far as moon vs rabblemaster main I'd honestly say neither or either depending on how spicy you want to be. They are both great cards in the matchups their good in, but absolutely terrible in nearly every other scenario.
At this point I'm considering relegating them both to the sideboard and trying different things in those slots when I pick the deck back up. For now I'm putting it down because, much like you guys, I've been getting pretty bad results with it.
I went 1-3 at the last fnm I played it at so I think I need a break from it for awhile.
Path and blood moon should never be in a deck together. Path actively helps your opponent keep from getting locked out by blood moon.
As for ass trophy, if anything it will make blood moon even less effective than it already is. Between field of ruin and ass trophy no deck should play less than 5 basics. The more basics decks play the easier it is for them to draw out of blood moon.
Blood moon, in my opinion, is fast approaching obsolescence.
Sideboard:
1 Hazoret
2 rabblemaster
2 kambal
1 brutality
1 rakdos charm
3 Stony silence
1 EE
1 anger of the gods
1 languish (for spirits)
2 crackling doom (boggles is popular in my local meta)
The reach of the helixes and unconditional nature of path (especially since there's no blood moon to non-bo with) has been quite nice in my experience.
I've been contemplating running a copy of painful truths since I have 3 helix and a brutality main that would mitigate the life loss.
For clarity, I don't play moons or lilianas so in all I would still have a lower curve than stock lists, but I'm unsure if possibly taking a turn off to draw 3 and lose 3 life is worth a slot.
I'm really hoping we get a new threat, another method of card draw/filtering, or a removal spell kind of like dreadbore that can also hit enchantments.
If it is a removal spell they probably won't make assassin's trophy pt.2, but they might make it a bit more flexible than something we already have.
If I were to hazard a guess as to what we'll actually end up getting I'd say nothing worth using.
I've considered Butcher a time or two. My big hang-up is that it's 4 Mana and doesn't have an immediate effect when it's played. Sure it can be given haste if you have a creature to sac, but that won't always be the case. Most people don't main Hazoret and she has haste and indestructible.
As for kolaghan 5 Mana is just too much for a deck with only 20 lands. We'll eventually get there if the game goes really long, but anything over 4 Mana seems far too unreliable.
I've been testing a list with 3 helix and 3 path to exile for the last couple days. No moons or walkers in the 75 and it feels pretty good so far.
Casting reveler has been smoother than ever and having more cards that trigger pyro has been nice as well.
On the topic of mana (and I don't know how to make the clean looking list presentations) 4 sources of white has been sufficient.
Currently using 4 cliffs, 4 mire, 4 Marsh flats, 2 foundry, 1 blood crypt, 1 godless shrine, 2 mountain, 1 swamp and 1 plains.
Edit: as far as path's nonbo with land destruction, I've basically given up on fighting over lands. I rarely see valakut decks and Tron is absolutely miserable even with land destruction so I doubt I'm negatively impacting myself that much in reality.
I actually just did the same thing. I put a Liliana the last hope, a second terminate and a Hazoret in their place.
It has felt pretty good so far. Note, however, that my local meta has few combo and Tron decks as well as several decks that don't care about blood moon very much or at all so your mileage may vary.
On the topic of Liliana, I've tried both and have yet to be impressed by either of them in this deck. Much of the time LotV acts like an over-costed removal spell and LtLH is like half a K-Command.
Perhaps I haven't tried enough games with them, but recently I've been happier with 2-3 blood moons and no planeswalkers. Anyone have some thoughts on this?
It's really only because of Liliana. I'm still on 3 mountains 2 swamps though since I don't mainboard Liliana either. Two blood moons mainboard with no Lilianas has been working nicely.
I keep one veil and one last hope in the sideboard, but I personally find that either one has a solid chance of being underwhelming in a lot of matchups (especially Liliana of the Veil these days).
Even if they do the exact same thing on your turn then they aren't getting any benefit from the pump, they just get to keep the creature, but then they're down a spell.
This is the list I've been trying out recently. I'm not really sure about the main board kambal and some of the sideboard slots though.
I will say I'm not really sold on bridge or sorin solemn visitor. Bridge seems super awkward a lot of the time and that sorin is less than impressive if you have little to no board presence.
As far as matchups have been, combo and midrange have felt quite favorable, UW control has been even to slightly favored, but I've been getting steamrolled pretty hard by humans. If anyone has some advice for sideboarding or how to approach aggro matchups that would be awesome.
One final note, the Gideons have been well worth the slots so far. 4-mana Gideon in particular is very nice to have in tandem with sorin and lingering souls against UW as sources of creature production past all the boardwipes.
Edit:upon further testing I just wasn't sideboarding heavily enough for humans/aggro in general.
The fact that is has what amounts to flashback just might make it good enough to use as maybe a 2-of.
Choosing to be domed for a total of 8 damage between both uses seems pretty rough unless you're playing martyr proc and letting this deck draw 6 cards is just plain incorrect unless taking the damage would kill you.
At a minimum I think it's worth trying out for a bit.
At this point I'm considering relegating them both to the sideboard and trying different things in those slots when I pick the deck back up. For now I'm putting it down because, much like you guys, I've been getting pretty bad results with it.
I went 1-3 at the last fnm I played it at so I think I need a break from it for awhile.
As for ass trophy, if anything it will make blood moon even less effective than it already is. Between field of ruin and ass trophy no deck should play less than 5 basics. The more basics decks play the easier it is for them to draw out of blood moon.
Blood moon, in my opinion, is fast approaching obsolescence.
4 blackcleave cliffs
4 Marsh flats
4 bloodstained mire
2 sacred foundry
1 blood crypt
1 godless shrine
2 mountain
1 swamp
1 plains
4 bedlam reveler
4 young pyromancer
4 Inquisition
3 thoughtseize
1 brutality
4 bolt
3 helix
3 path
2 dreadbore
2 push
2 kolaghan's command
4 faithless looting
4 lingering souls
Sideboard:
1 Hazoret
2 rabblemaster
2 kambal
1 brutality
1 rakdos charm
3 Stony silence
1 EE
1 anger of the gods
1 languish (for spirits)
2 crackling doom (boggles is popular in my local meta)
The reach of the helixes and unconditional nature of path (especially since there's no blood moon to non-bo with) has been quite nice in my experience.
For clarity, I don't play moons or lilianas so in all I would still have a lower curve than stock lists, but I'm unsure if possibly taking a turn off to draw 3 and lose 3 life is worth a slot.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
If it is a removal spell they probably won't make assassin's trophy pt.2, but they might make it a bit more flexible than something we already have.
If I were to hazard a guess as to what we'll actually end up getting I'd say nothing worth using.
As for kolaghan 5 Mana is just too much for a deck with only 20 lands. We'll eventually get there if the game goes really long, but anything over 4 Mana seems far too unreliable.
Casting reveler has been smoother than ever and having more cards that trigger pyro has been nice as well.
On the topic of mana (and I don't know how to make the clean looking list presentations) 4 sources of white has been sufficient.
Currently using 4 cliffs, 4 mire, 4 Marsh flats, 2 foundry, 1 blood crypt, 1 godless shrine, 2 mountain, 1 swamp and 1 plains.
Edit: as far as path's nonbo with land destruction, I've basically given up on fighting over lands. I rarely see valakut decks and Tron is absolutely miserable even with land destruction so I doubt I'm negatively impacting myself that much in reality.
It has felt pretty good so far. Note, however, that my local meta has few combo and Tron decks as well as several decks that don't care about blood moon very much or at all so your mileage may vary.
Thinking about giving it a try, but I'm unsure if she would just be too slow most of the time.
Perhaps I haven't tried enough games with them, but recently I've been happier with 2-3 blood moons and no planeswalkers. Anyone have some thoughts on this?
I keep one veil and one last hope in the sideboard, but I personally find that either one has a solid chance of being underwhelming in a lot of matchups (especially Liliana of the Veil these days).