Like other similar effects that reference only the card, not the "exiled card" or "the card in the graveyard", the card would return from the command zone too if it was put there instead of the graveyard, assuming it hasn't moved from there before the effect resolves. (C.R. 903.9) (C.R. 400.7h, 400.2)
I think you would need to attach some kind of "make sure people aren't building degenerate decks" type of rule, or feature to it. Like many have said. This rule seems to incentivize building low land decks, and then benefit from drawing nothing but gas.
Possible tweaks (that are also just rough wording):
Instead of drawing your first card during your draw step, if another player controls more land than you, you may pay 2 life and search your library for 30 (or some other number) land cards, reveal them, then select 1 basic land from those revealed and put it in your hand, shuffle the rest and your library afterwards. If you were unable to reveal the 30 land cards, then instead (some horrible consequence, like lose half your life, and still draw, just to make sure they are not using it as a way to avoid drawing from an empty library, and you get an emblem that forbids you from taking this action in the future)
That's pretty wordy, but the “30” is just a quick “see, it’s not degenerate” check. You wouldn’t even need to pull them, just start fanning it and counting up to 30, then picking a basic to put in your hand. The rule could also be something simpler like:
Instead of drawing your first card during your draw step, if another player controls more land than you, you may pay 2 life and shuffle your library and then reveal the top 10 cards. You may select 1 basic land from the revealed cards and place it in your hand. Exile the revealed cards. If you did not place a basic land in your hand, then draw.
That way, there's an actual cost from it, and if you are running land lite to abuse the system, you probably won't be successful. And also, the “then draw” is just to make sure you are not using this rule to avoid mill losses.
I don't know, just thinking out loud here. Like you said. Thought experiments are fun.
The thread you linked was very helpful! Thank you! I think I understand enough to manage now. But now I have four questions to make sure I understand. But don't worry, these are much more yes or no than my original open ended post.
1. If I attack with Daggerback Basilisk and Hypnotic Specter banded somehow, and my opponent blocks with a 2/7. I could have Daggerback do and take 1 damage, then have Hypnotic Specter take the other, so both my creatures live, but the Deathtouch from Daggerback kills the 2/7. Correct?
2. If a band of creatures goes unblocked, I would only bring one creature back to my hand for Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow and the rest would go thru as normal and deal their damage, correct? I realize that's an esoteric question, but Yuriko is my very favorite nongreen Commander.
3. If both attacking and blocking creatures have Banding, who gets to choose what damages what. Would it neutralize and go back to the attacking or would priority cause something else to happen? Let's say the attacker has a 1/1/ and a 3/3 banded together, and the defender is blocking with a 2/2 Banding and a generic 2/2. No other abilities unless one makes it easier for you to explain.
4. If the attacker has a 4/4 White creature with Protection from Black and a generic 1/1 banded, a Black 2/2 could block the band, due to the 'if you can block anything, you can block the band' rule, correct?
5. If that Black 2/2 had Deathttouch, would the White creature's Protection overrule the Deathttouch? And therefore the generic 1/1 and the Black 2/2 die, but the White 4/4 lives?
The thread you linked was very helpful! Thank you! I think I understand enough to manage now. But now I have four questions to make sure I understand. But don't worry, these are much more yes or no than my original open ended post.
1. If I attack with Daggerback Basilisk and Hypnotic Specter banded somehow, and my opponent blocks with a 2/7. I could have Daggerback do and take 1 damage, then have Hypnotic Specter take the other, so both my creatures live, but the Deathtouch from Daggerback kills the 2/7. Correct?
2. If a band of creatures goes unblocked, I would only bring one creature back to my hand for Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow and the rest would go thru as normal and deal their damage, correct? I realize that's an esoteric question, but Yuriko is my very favorite nongreen Commander.
3. If both attacking and blocking creatures have Banding, who gets to choose what damages what. Would it neutralize and go back to the attacking or would priority cause something else to happen? Let's say the attacker has a 1/1/ and a 3/3 banded together, and the defender is blocking with a 2/2 Banding and a generic 2/2. No other abilities unless one makes it easier for you to explain.
4. If the attacker has a 4/4 White creature with Protection from Black and a generic 1/1 banded, a Black 2/2 could block the band, due to the 'if you can block anything, you can block the band' rule, correct?
5. If that Black 2/2 had Deathttouch, would the White creature's Protection overrule the Deathttouch? And therefore the generic 1/1 and the Black 2/2 die, but the White 4/4 lives?
1.Yes, you can do it that way.
2.Yes
3.There is no "neutralize". The attackers are in a band. Instead of the defender assigning the damage from his blockers, the attacker gets to assign this damage from the blockers, point by point, however they want, among the 1/1 and 3/3 attackers. Then, instead of the attacker assigning damage to the blockers, because a blocker has banding, the defender instead gets to assign the damage, point by point, however they want.
Remember, banding doesn't change how your creatures assign their damage, it only changes how they receive their damage.
4.Yes, block one legally and the rest are blocked by the banding effect
5.Protection would protect normally, and it's even better than you stated. The attacker would be able to assign the damage from the 2/2 Black Deathtouch creature how they wanted. I recommend assigning it to the 4/4 White Protection from Black creature. Then, when the damage is assigned, it will be reduced to 0, because it's damage from a black source. All the attackers survive.
Also note, that if the White 4/4 did not have protection from black, the attacker could take the 2 points of deathtouch damage, and assign it all to the 1/1, and have it die. They would not need to assign any to the 4/4 at all.
First, it's important to keep track that banding functions differently when attacking, versus when blocking. Also, "bands with other" has some small differences, and all of the "bands with other" stuff will be skipped here.
Blocking is easier, so lets start there. Attackers attack, and you assign blockers as normal. When blockers are assigned, the attacker still "lines them up" in the order they want if multiple blockers are blocking an attacker.
During the assign combat step, if any blocker has the "banding" ability, then instead of the attacking player assigning damage from the creature(s) the banding creature is blocking, the defending player will assign the damage, point by point, however they want, without the need to follow the traditional rule of having to assign lethal to the first one, before being able to assign damage to the next one in line. As well, they don't have to follow the order the attacker defined at all, they get total control.
I'll restate, that's the only difference on defense. There's no such thing as a "band" of defending creatures. Block normally, and change the assign damage step. That's the only difference on defense. Some of the benefits this gives that makes banding strong can be as follows:
A - damage can be split one by one in an effort to have no defenders take lethal damage. For example, if 10 creatures each with 2 points of toughness are blocking, and at least one has banding, then at the assign damage step, the first 10 points could be assigned 1 point to each of the 10 blockers, and no one would take lethal.
B - damage can the clumped to save as many defenders as possible. For example, if the same 10 creatures are blocking, and at least one has banding, but during the assign damage step, you need to assign 20 damage, you can choose to assign all 20 to 1 creature, and then only that 1 creature will have taken lethal damage
C - trample damage can be mitigated, by assigning extra damage to a creature, other than to the player. For example, a 10 power attacker is blocked by a 1 toughness creature with banding. During the assign damage step, the defender can choose to assign all 10 damage to the creature, and assign 0 damage to the player.
That's banding on defense.
On attack, it works a little differently, specifically in the assign attackers part of combat.
When you assign attackers, you can create a group called a band. The band can consist of as many creatures you want that have the banding ability, and up to 1 creature without the banding ability. Once a band is created, the creatures will remain in the group until the end of combat.
Assigning blockers is exactly the same, and only after blockers are assigned do we add an extra bit. When you assign a blocker, you need to follow all normal blocking rules. For example you need to have reach or flying to block an attacker with flying. However, once that creature is assigned as a blocker, then an extra thing happens. That blocking creatures is considered to be assigned to block all other creatures in that attacker's band, even if it normally could not do so, AND each creature in that band is now considered to be blocked by that creature, even if they normally could not be blocked by it. This part tends to be the confusing part, but just remember, you still assign blockers normally, with normal restrictions, it's just that banding adds to it, so that if one is legally blocked, then ALL are blocked, no matter what, and the blocker is blocking ALL of them too.
At this point, the effect of banding will only come up during the assign damage step. When it is time to assign damage, the player who created the "band" of attackers gets to decide how damage will be applied within the band, on a point by point basis, with the same benefits as banding on defence. For example, the attacker can try to distribute it to keep everyone alive, or clump it up, to kill as few as possible, or anything in between.
Like other similar effects that reference only the card, not the "exiled card" or "the card in the graveyard", the card would return from the command zone too if it was put there instead of the graveyard, assuming it hasn't moved from there before the effect resolves. (C.R. 903.9) (C.R. 400.7h, 400.2)
In regards to the OP, if the commander was already recast, nothing happens when the changeling leaves play.
Possible tweaks (that are also just rough wording):
Instead of drawing your first card during your draw step, if another player controls more land than you, you may pay 2 life and search your library for 30 (or some other number) land cards, reveal them, then select 1 basic land from those revealed and put it in your hand, shuffle the rest and your library afterwards. If you were unable to reveal the 30 land cards, then instead (some horrible consequence, like lose half your life, and still draw, just to make sure they are not using it as a way to avoid drawing from an empty library, and you get an emblem that forbids you from taking this action in the future)
That's pretty wordy, but the “30” is just a quick “see, it’s not degenerate” check. You wouldn’t even need to pull them, just start fanning it and counting up to 30, then picking a basic to put in your hand. The rule could also be something simpler like:
Instead of drawing your first card during your draw step, if another player controls more land than you, you may pay 2 life and shuffle your library and then reveal the top 10 cards. You may select 1 basic land from the revealed cards and place it in your hand. Exile the revealed cards. If you did not place a basic land in your hand, then draw.
That way, there's an actual cost from it, and if you are running land lite to abuse the system, you probably won't be successful. And also, the “then draw” is just to make sure you are not using this rule to avoid mill losses.
I don't know, just thinking out loud here. Like you said. Thought experiments are fun.
1.Yes, you can do it that way.
2.Yes
3.There is no "neutralize". The attackers are in a band. Instead of the defender assigning the damage from his blockers, the attacker gets to assign this damage from the blockers, point by point, however they want, among the 1/1 and 3/3 attackers. Then, instead of the attacker assigning damage to the blockers, because a blocker has banding, the defender instead gets to assign the damage, point by point, however they want.
Remember, banding doesn't change how your creatures assign their damage, it only changes how they receive their damage.
4.Yes, block one legally and the rest are blocked by the banding effect
5.Protection would protect normally, and it's even better than you stated. The attacker would be able to assign the damage from the 2/2 Black Deathtouch creature how they wanted. I recommend assigning it to the 4/4 White Protection from Black creature. Then, when the damage is assigned, it will be reduced to 0, because it's damage from a black source. All the attackers survive.
Also note, that if the White 4/4 did not have protection from black, the attacker could take the 2 points of deathtouch damage, and assign it all to the 1/1, and have it die. They would not need to assign any to the 4/4 at all.
Blocking is easier, so lets start there. Attackers attack, and you assign blockers as normal. When blockers are assigned, the attacker still "lines them up" in the order they want if multiple blockers are blocking an attacker.
During the assign combat step, if any blocker has the "banding" ability, then instead of the attacking player assigning damage from the creature(s) the banding creature is blocking, the defending player will assign the damage, point by point, however they want, without the need to follow the traditional rule of having to assign lethal to the first one, before being able to assign damage to the next one in line. As well, they don't have to follow the order the attacker defined at all, they get total control.
I'll restate, that's the only difference on defense. There's no such thing as a "band" of defending creatures. Block normally, and change the assign damage step. That's the only difference on defense. Some of the benefits this gives that makes banding strong can be as follows:
A - damage can be split one by one in an effort to have no defenders take lethal damage. For example, if 10 creatures each with 2 points of toughness are blocking, and at least one has banding, then at the assign damage step, the first 10 points could be assigned 1 point to each of the 10 blockers, and no one would take lethal.
B - damage can the clumped to save as many defenders as possible. For example, if the same 10 creatures are blocking, and at least one has banding, but during the assign damage step, you need to assign 20 damage, you can choose to assign all 20 to 1 creature, and then only that 1 creature will have taken lethal damage
C - trample damage can be mitigated, by assigning extra damage to a creature, other than to the player. For example, a 10 power attacker is blocked by a 1 toughness creature with banding. During the assign damage step, the defender can choose to assign all 10 damage to the creature, and assign 0 damage to the player.
That's banding on defense.
On attack, it works a little differently, specifically in the assign attackers part of combat.
When you assign attackers, you can create a group called a band. The band can consist of as many creatures you want that have the banding ability, and up to 1 creature without the banding ability. Once a band is created, the creatures will remain in the group until the end of combat.
Assigning blockers is exactly the same, and only after blockers are assigned do we add an extra bit. When you assign a blocker, you need to follow all normal blocking rules. For example you need to have reach or flying to block an attacker with flying. However, once that creature is assigned as a blocker, then an extra thing happens. That blocking creatures is considered to be assigned to block all other creatures in that attacker's band, even if it normally could not do so, AND each creature in that band is now considered to be blocked by that creature, even if they normally could not be blocked by it. This part tends to be the confusing part, but just remember, you still assign blockers normally, with normal restrictions, it's just that banding adds to it, so that if one is legally blocked, then ALL are blocked, no matter what, and the blocker is blocking ALL of them too.
At this point, the effect of banding will only come up during the assign damage step. When it is time to assign damage, the player who created the "band" of attackers gets to decide how damage will be applied within the band, on a point by point basis, with the same benefits as banding on defence. For example, the attacker can try to distribute it to keep everyone alive, or clump it up, to kill as few as possible, or anything in between.