@Ax The only black card I really miss is the Orzhov Charm. How close did you find the difference between the two versions? I am already running a Crucible of Worlds maindeck in B/W on MoDo.
Like to clarify, I have already been considering cutting Godless Shrine down to 2 copies and upping the # of Flagstones to 4 for painless fetches. The hands where I'm on Marsh Flats for swamp when I have the turn 2/3 30 have not been an issue it's very specifically the hand where I draw multiple Godless Shrines that keep me off of early 30.
Also, Lingering Souls has been very unimpressive in the current metagame and have been considering cutting it. What would your thoughts be on *only* splashing black for charm? No Sorin, no Souls, no Castigate etcetera.
Anybody try Mentor of the Meek as a 1 or 2 of?
Really been wanting even more card draw.
Been side-boarding a 1 of Crucible of Worlds for a few days and really really happy with it that I want something else like it MD.
Unfortunately Crucible isn't good in enough matches for MD. Maybe Mentor is?
Hey guys. Had a blast playing the deck this weekend.
First won an 8 man... then went 3-1 in the daily that I played but was crushed in the finals by Abzan sporting quad ooze, drown in sorrow, zealous persecution and golgari charm post board... Then played another 8 man to be kept off undefeated by another list of the type...
Maybe the days of Lingering Souls & Sorin just aren't here anymore with where the meta has shifted.
We really need a different direction to attack them from when they are so ready for the token side of the meta and have incidental GY hate.
Demanic been following this thread since the Gerry T article.
Me and a friend have both decided to pull the trigger and buy it for MTGO grinding (I'm cashing out my Affinity list for this).
Just want to congratulate you on all your hard work and bringing us such a sweet freakin' tuned list.
Would love to hear your thoughts on how you Sideboard for the big MTGO 3 (Junk/Burn/Twin) on MoDo.
The two sideboard cards that I'm most interested in knowing more about are the 4x Ghostly Prisons and the 4x Castigates. Also, for MoDo grinding how do you feel about cutting the Surgicals for something a bit wider.
For reference the list I am going to buy by the end of week.
@wtwlf which of the cubes you have linked in your sig has Boros proven to be a top 5 finisher in?
A few years ago Boros, and to a similar extent cube Zoo (which was generally mostly boros) was the scariest deck to face off against. More and more we've been finding that the decks that run for speed with minimal disruption don't do too well. Our white section has alot of hate bears but in looking at results from our playgroup the little white men tend to succeed more when paired with Black discard or Blue tempo *where as* the little red men decks have the best records with Blue delver style decks or black Confidant//Arena fueled assualts. As more and more cards like Thragtusk and Wurmcoil are printed that just shut down aggro... as more and more cheap walkers that are easy to protect come out... R/W just doesn't seem to have the offensive resources to be consistent. Even geddon/ravages does not shine like it used to and is way more beatable than a few years ago.
This is likely also just our playgroup (and MoDo cubes as well) where I've been noticing this. The funny thing is that White Aggro and Red Aggro really are the two best core aggro colors we've just noticed that pairing them together has not been successful as of recent and were hoping on some insights on what we might be able to do to push it more in our playgroup.
@wtwlf you say Boros has been requested to be nerfed. What cards does your group say are too strong and have to go?
Is it just us... or is Boros the worst archetype in cube?
We are currently reworking our no p9 400 card but otherwise vintage cube...
What do people draft in Boros or put into their cube that makes Boros succeed?
Have you guys in the last year seen a Boros cube deck go undefeated and if so what made it work?
We've been considering supporting a synergy like tokens/humans/etc...
Also... I think we should try enhancement route if you want to add something to the deck, there seems to be a bit too much artifact hate recently for my likings.
Maybe I've been unlucky but I can't seem to want to rely on a suspended gargadon to win my game... You're probably right about the rest. I guess more testing is required for me...
You don't need Greater Gargadon to win.
This isn't a combo deck, it's a combo/control deck.
For example, in my testing against 12 post, I'll often have to balance 2 or even three times to keep him off lands and eventually win with Vendillion Clique and Riftwing beatdown.
On a different note – I really can't find a good replacement for Jace.
None of the other 4cc walkers can take over a game like Jace did
Paladin en vec - Pro red and black helps against zoos red creatures plus they have to use a path to get ride of him. Jund has no real answer only try and out race you and drop a goyf he stalls the game long enough for you to ruin thier chances by setting up your balance.
what's your manabase like?
How do you reliably get WW on turn three?
Dismember and Oblivion Ring have both been in and out of the SB and maindeck. I don't think received any attention in this primer.
Court Hussar should be maindecked over Thirst for Knowledge if you expect your meta to be *very* aggro heavy where the ability to create some board presence (even if it just chump blocks) matters
Another note – I've been doing some testing against 12post and have found Blood Moon to *kind of suck*. If I can't get balance online immediately after the Moon, they find a way to ramp to 6 and win even under a Moon. With that said, Blood Moon can completely lock many decks (Zoo and Reveilark) from playing threats completely.
Personally, I think that if you built a cube with the only non-multicolor cards being 1drops it would be a blast to play.
To back up what others said, that would require a great deal of fixing.
I'd also include the best of the shard and wedge cards.
Remember what drafting shards was like?
Every1 was in at least two colors so drafting a 3color card was like "going into a second color."
Like to clarify, I have already been considering cutting Godless Shrine down to 2 copies and upping the # of Flagstones to 4 for painless fetches. The hands where I'm on Marsh Flats for swamp when I have the turn 2/3 30 have not been an issue it's very specifically the hand where I draw multiple Godless Shrines that keep me off of early 30.
Also, Lingering Souls has been very unimpressive in the current metagame and have been considering cutting it. What would your thoughts be on *only* splashing black for charm? No Sorin, no Souls, no Castigate etcetera.
Really been wanting even more card draw.
Been side-boarding a 1 of Crucible of Worlds for a few days and really really happy with it that I want something else like it MD.
Unfortunately Crucible isn't good in enough matches for MD. Maybe Mentor is?
First won an 8 man... then went 3-1 in the daily that I played but was crushed in the finals by Abzan sporting quad ooze, drown in sorrow, zealous persecution and golgari charm post board... Then played another 8 man to be kept off undefeated by another list of the type...
Maybe the days of Lingering Souls & Sorin just aren't here anymore with where the meta has shifted.
We really need a different direction to attack them from when they are so ready for the token side of the meta and have incidental GY hate.
Me and a friend have both decided to pull the trigger and buy it for MTGO grinding (I'm cashing out my Affinity list for this).
Just want to congratulate you on all your hard work and bringing us such a sweet freakin' tuned list.
Would love to hear your thoughts on how you Sideboard for the big MTGO 3 (Junk/Burn/Twin) on MoDo.
The two sideboard cards that I'm most interested in knowing more about are the 4x Ghostly Prisons and the 4x Castigates. Also, for MoDo grinding how do you feel about cutting the Surgicals for something a bit wider.
For reference the list I am going to buy by the end of week.
2x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
1x MIstveil Plains
6x Plains
1x Swamp
4x Serra Ascendant
2x Weathered Wayfarer
4x Squadron Hawk
4x Lingering Souls
4x Ranger of Eos
1x Kami of False Hope
3x Path to Exile
4x Orzhov Charm
2x Proclamation of Rebirth
3x Wrath of God
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4x Ghostly Prison
4x Surgical Extraction
4x Castigate
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Utter End
A few years ago Boros, and to a similar extent cube Zoo (which was generally mostly boros) was the scariest deck to face off against. More and more we've been finding that the decks that run for speed with minimal disruption don't do too well. Our white section has alot of hate bears but in looking at results from our playgroup the little white men tend to succeed more when paired with Black discard or Blue tempo *where as* the little red men decks have the best records with Blue delver style decks or black Confidant//Arena fueled assualts. As more and more cards like Thragtusk and Wurmcoil are printed that just shut down aggro... as more and more cheap walkers that are easy to protect come out... R/W just doesn't seem to have the offensive resources to be consistent. Even geddon/ravages does not shine like it used to and is way more beatable than a few years ago.
This is likely also just our playgroup (and MoDo cubes as well) where I've been noticing this. The funny thing is that White Aggro and Red Aggro really are the two best core aggro colors we've just noticed that pairing them together has not been successful as of recent and were hoping on some insights on what we might be able to do to push it more in our playgroup.
@wtwlf you say Boros has been requested to be nerfed. What cards does your group say are too strong and have to go?
We are currently reworking our no p9 400 card but otherwise vintage cube...
What do people draft in Boros or put into their cube that makes Boros succeed?
Have you guys in the last year seen a Boros cube deck go undefeated and if so what made it work?
We've been considering supporting a synergy like tokens/humans/etc...
merge thread
-Monkey D Luffy
What do you mean by *enhancement*
You don't need Greater Gargadon to win.
This isn't a combo deck, it's a combo/control deck.
For example, in my testing against 12 post, I'll often have to balance 2 or even three times to keep him off lands and eventually win with Vendillion Clique and Riftwing beatdown.
On a different note – I really can't find a good replacement for Jace.
None of the other 4cc walkers can take over a game like Jace did
what's your manabase like?
How do you reliably get WW on turn three?
Damping Matrix was in the original sideboard *because* it turned off Hex/Depths and is no longer relevant.
Boom//Bust was brought in to fight Cranial Extraction and Chalice of the Void if I knew or expected them from an opponent. I wouldn't run the deck without 2 in the board.
Dismember and Oblivion Ring have both been in and out of the SB and maindeck. I don't think received any attention in this primer.
Court Hussar should be maindecked over Thirst for Knowledge if you expect your meta to be *very* aggro heavy where the ability to create some board presence (even if it just chump blocks) matters
Tezzeret the Seeker, in my opinion, costs way too much mana for this deck. I've been trying to figure out a way to support either Elspeth Knight Errant or Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas instead of the always not as good as you want him to be Ajani Vengeant.
Another note – I've been doing some testing against 12post and have found Blood Moon to *kind of suck*. If I can't get balance online immediately after the Moon, they find a way to ramp to 6 and win even under a Moon. With that said, Blood Moon can completely lock many decks (Zoo and Reveilark) from playing threats completely.
Can players really be wrong?
As a cube designer, is it not our responsibility to respond to our playgroup?
If people want to be playing multi color aggro decks we must cut cards like White Knight and Dauthi Slayer for cards like Soltari Trooper and Fledgling Djinn.
And on the other hand, if people want to be playing control decks that don't feature blue we must put more tools into our cube for them.
To back up what others said, that would require a great deal of fixing.
I'd also include the best of the shard and wedge cards.
Remember what drafting shards was like?
Every1 was in at least two colors so drafting a 3color card was like "going into a second color."