Yeah I disagree here too.
Having played the deck for a while, KotR is the reigning MVP.
I'll almost always mulligan if I don't get KotR or GSZ (to fetch KotR). The card isn't legendary, which matters too. KHE isn't really there for ramp, altho I do use it for that early. It's mainly there for landfall > play something that likes landfall, then *pop!* 4x Burgeoning I tried before. Without some blue filter or crazy draw the card was underwhelming in 'this' deck. In other decks it's F*****G amazing of course.
So I took the deck for a night with the lads and ladies. I like this deck a lot. Gitrog was great, I like this card here a lot. Pavlova (a delicious aussie/kiwi invention) was also pretty good. Pavlova with Courser of Kruphix or Oracle of Mul Daya were quite effective. To be honest, I think I'd like to keep a singleton of both Gitrog & Tatyova in the deck for now.
I've modified my list in post#6 to reflect what I'm currently playing with.
Haulti, Radiant Champion is a card I missed first time around.
Unlike most walkers, this ultimate looks surprisingly easy to achieve in quite a few deck archetypes, but especially tokens.
I'd like to fit Genesis in there, but I'm not certain I actually need it with Emeria Shepherd in there.
One card I've not played with before is Wayward Swordtooth. Looks very good, but I'm not sure I can fit it into the list, seems to be completing with Courser of Kruphix.
I favour cards that provide card advantage anyway, but draw allows us to find them.
Adequate draw helps provide increased access to mana sources to make your plays on curve.
I decided to add a "go big" card to the deck and landed on Anointed Procession. Pretty much anything works but when you're converting 1 mana into four 1/1s your opponents don't need to scoop because they literally die 3 circuits later.
I've been following this thread for a while, I like it, and I've been testing a few things too.
Anointed Procession as your *go big* makes sense.
I've tried out Jazal Goldmane, Mirror Entity, instant-speed white pump & Cathar's Crusade with mixed results.
Whilst Jazal can be insane, Mirror was often enough to create havoc, but I might try out a green splash for some Parallel Lives (I don't own AP).
Bane of Progress has been in there in the past, and it's strong. It's currently in another deck but should come back.
Yeah I don't like the Sundial's either, just an option I own. I typically play against 3 to 6 opponents, so Compost is definitely an option. Both Gitrog & Tatyova supply draw and can be fetched with GSZ. Given I could easily include both of these creatures and only need to support them with a single Opulent Palace, I think it might be fun to test which I like more.
Stampede is a silly one, you're right, my Kamahl is in another deck, but I think this deck needs him more now I think about.
I don't own Craterhoof Behemoth ....but would love to.
How did Harvester of SOuls get in there? It wasn't even meant to be Soul of the Harvest either... puzzling?!
I think this was Sylvan Primordial or Genesis. I have some of my decks typed out in excel, I blame booze and late nights....
I use Sundial as I don't have Tireless Tracker, also don't have Lotus Cobra. I have a set of Primeval Titan but I use them in another deck. Any suggestions for this archetype are welcome!
It's okay, it's not amazeballs, but a few other options have me curious.
The Gitrog Monster, Omnath, Locus of Rage & Tatyova, Benthic Druid.
Gitrog looks like the stronger option here, given that this deck doesn't really ramp, so getting 5cmc seems more plausible, but I'm curious how it actually plays out. I'm thinking that Gitrog together with a small number of Ramunap Excavator would be the only real changes I would need to work with my current deck? So of these three options, which one's do you think are worth pursuing?
Sounds like an awful lot of fuss to make a 3-card combo. I'd dump that idea personally.
If you really want to do it every turn, Eye of the Storm can do it. Yes, it will be delicious chaos
But personally I'd double-down on this effect without the Eye, with 4 Teferi's Protection with 4 Heroic Intervention.
You said you wanted ramp, green is the best way to get there anyway.
Then just chuck in whatever wipes you favour, like Armageddon, Impending Disaster etc. and simply grind them out.
I have a friend who plays a miracles deck.
Whilst completely fair, its tough to beat (with a fair deck)
He runs UW.
His deck centers around Luminarch Ascension & Entreat as token producers, together with Terminus, False Prophet, Final Judgment & Fracturing Gust to keep the field clear AFAIK.
Otherwise the deck is full on top-of-library manipulation tools from memory, like Halimar Depths, Brainstorm, SDT etc.
I would just blindly jam in something massive in MP games, like Insurrection, Clone Legion, Rise of the Dark Realms, Plague Wind etc.
Worldfire is a combo enabler (think Oblivion Ring targetting Sulfuric Vortex)... not where I'd wanna go here.
Also;
All of your creatures have "enters the battlefield" attached to them. This is pretty useful if you intend on activating your Marvel every turn.
I'd consider some sort of bounce enabler, or something that doubles multiplies triggers to milk it.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
Since I last posted I've been doing some testing, and I've arrived to a point where I just don't like this deck idea.
I've tried a few different lists, so far nothing is really jumping out and shaking me.
But I DO like the card-draw part of Grim Haruspex, Fecundity &/or Dark Prophecy, it's just a question of how to make it work.
And yes, I'm strongly considering all 3 in the deck.
(win cons) you're not really going to find anything "fun." ..... Like it or not you're playing a combo deck and all of your cards are worthless on their own so unless you're doing something busted in the end then it's going to be miserable to play.
Yep, I've considered those too. I'm not stuck on any colour requirements at present, I'm unsure which way to take the deck, as I'm not happy with where it is. FWIW, I have been considering Priest of Gix & Priest of Urabrask too.
One version I've been testing with runs these with a swag of rainbow lands, evoke creatures, Mana creatures etc. with Living Death. It's silly, but also slightly less potent than a dedicated Living Death deck I like to run.
Total Wombat isn't my kind of card - Hermit Druid makes it far too easy.
I had thought about Ghoultree/Nemesis etc., but it kinda feels like a different deck.
A while ago I built an aggro deck based on Heartless Summoning, for the youngsters & noobs to enjoy playing bigger stuff.
Playing with 5-cmc to 7-cmc beaters and clone's etc.
Aggro deck is aggro, and I'm looking to change it up, even if it is effective enough for teaching noobs.
Okay, so question #1;
Thinking about silly territory, but no infinite combo's, so no Myr Retriever-loop into a storm finisher.
I like the interaction between Heartless Summoning & Fecundity (redundancy in Grim Haruspex)
The rough idea is to drop HS & a draw engine (preferably 2), then proceed to churn out a heap of 2-cmc colourless creatures each turn.
Some coloured options could be stuff like Elvish Visionary, Steve, Ghast etc. but I'm aiming for colourless.
I'm also considering Myr Superion & Dark Ritual. I may up the land count dependent on where the decks ends up.
So you may notice there is no win-con here. This is where I'm looking for some advice. Falkenrath Noble is the obvious one here as it's on-colour, but I'm curious what other options are out there, as I'm repulsed by this as a win-con.
Is there something/anything else I can use?
Alrighty, Question #2.
What else can be done with Heartless Summoning? Besides aggro acceleration or weenie-killing combo, what else can this card do?
I tend to play 4 to 8 player games, so I favour cards that scale.
Besides turning creatures sideways, you don't have an alternate win.
For me, decks that go full-retard on counters usually end up running Chandra's Ignition &/or Jared, Golgari Lich Lord, as they can both win games in their own right if turning creatures sideways isn't getting it done.
Forgotten Ancient is worth your time. Corpsejack Menace might be too.
I usually find a single sweeper enough to say goodnight should you over-commit, so make sure you have card draw options.
FWIW, I like Syphon Mind, but I've run Momentous Fall in the past.
Looking at your list, 4 Lurking Predators may fit. Insane for creature heavy decks in multiplayer, Dryad Arbor works with it too.
Daru Warchief & Ballyrush Banneret will setup some crazy turns I reckon.....
Yeah I disagree here too.
Having played the deck for a while, KotR is the reigning MVP.
I'll almost always mulligan if I don't get KotR or GSZ (to fetch KotR). The card isn't legendary, which matters too.
KHE isn't really there for ramp, altho I do use it for that early. It's mainly there for landfall > play something that likes landfall, then *pop!* 4x Burgeoning I tried before. Without some blue filter or crazy draw the card was underwhelming in 'this' deck. In other decks it's F*****G amazing of course.
So I took the deck for a night with the lads and ladies. I like this deck a lot.
Gitrog was great, I like this card here a lot. Pavlova (a delicious aussie/kiwi invention) was also pretty good. Pavlova with Courser of Kruphix or Oracle of Mul Daya were quite effective. To be honest, I think I'd like to keep a singleton of both Gitrog & Tatyova in the deck for now.
I've modified my list in post#6 to reflect what I'm currently playing with.
Unlike most walkers, this ultimate looks surprisingly easy to achieve in quite a few deck archetypes, but especially tokens.
I'm contemplating blindly jamming this, Sylvan Offering, Secure the Wastes, Martial Coup etc. together with some support from mana-dorks, Awakening Zone, Twilight Drover, Gavony Township, Beastmaster Ascension & Tendershoot Dryad.
Anyone tried using this card? What did you do with it?
World Shaper is interesting, but this might be more useful for the Scapeshift / Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle kind of build.
3 Krosan Verge
2 Sejiri Steppe
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Mistveil Plains
3 Plains
8 Forest
1 Opulent Palace
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Khalni Heart Expedition
1 Worm Harvest
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Fierce Empath
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ramunap Excavator
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Somberwald Sage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 The Gitrog Monster
1 Tatyova, Benthic Druid
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Bane of Progress
2 Rampaging Baloths
2 Emeria Shepherd
1 Avenger of Zendikar
I'd like to fit Genesis in there, but I'm not certain I actually need it with Emeria Shepherd in there.
One card I've not played with before is Wayward Swordtooth. Looks very good, but I'm not sure I can fit it into the list, seems to be completing with Courser of Kruphix.
I favour cards that provide card advantage anyway, but draw allows us to find them.
Adequate draw helps provide increased access to mana sources to make your plays on curve.
I've been following this thread for a while, I like it, and I've been testing a few things too.
Anointed Procession as your *go big* makes sense.
I've tried out Jazal Goldmane, Mirror Entity, instant-speed white pump & Cathar's Crusade with mixed results.
Whilst Jazal can be insane, Mirror was often enough to create havoc, but I might try out a green splash for some Parallel Lives (I don't own AP).
Oh wow, Titania, Protector of Argoth is great! Makes Omnath, Locus of Rage look like over-costed trash.
Bane of Progress has been in there in the past, and it's strong. It's currently in another deck but should come back.
Yeah I don't like the Sundial's either, just an option I own. I typically play against 3 to 6 opponents, so Compost is definitely an option. Both Gitrog & Tatyova supply draw and can be fetched with GSZ. Given I could easily include both of these creatures and only need to support them with a single Opulent Palace, I think it might be fun to test which I like more.
Stampede is a silly one, you're right, my Kamahl is in another deck, but I think this deck needs him more now I think about.
I don't own Craterhoof Behemoth ....but would love to.
How did Harvester of SOuls get in there? It wasn't even meant to be Soul of the Harvest either... puzzling?!
I think this was Sylvan Primordial or Genesis. I have some of my decks typed out in excel, I blame booze and late nights....
Anyway;
-4 Sundial, -1 Stampede, -1 Sage, -1 Harvester??
+ 4 Draw options (gonna go thru my greenies), +1 Titania, +1 Ramunap, +1 Bane, +1 Kamahl
I've been playing a Landfall-based deck for a while now.
It runs just fine, but it's fairly one-paced and predictable.
4 Krosan Verge
2 Sejiri Steppe
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Plains
8 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Khalni Heart Expedition
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Fierce Empath
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Worm Harvest
1 Overwhelming Stampede
2 Rampaging Baloths
1 Avenger of Zendikar
2 Emeria Shepherd
1 Harvester of Souls
I use Sundial as I don't have Tireless Tracker, also don't have Lotus Cobra. I have a set of Primeval Titan but I use them in another deck. Any suggestions for this archetype are welcome!
It's okay, it's not amazeballs, but a few other options have me curious.
The Gitrog Monster, Omnath, Locus of Rage & Tatyova, Benthic Druid.
Gitrog looks like the stronger option here, given that this deck doesn't really ramp, so getting 5cmc seems more plausible, but I'm curious how it actually plays out. I'm thinking that Gitrog together with a small number of Ramunap Excavator would be the only real changes I would need to work with my current deck? So of these three options, which one's do you think are worth pursuing?
With that many creatures in your deck, I'd consider Lurking Predators.
Or maybe a way for them to get the damage thru, like a menace enabler? Goblin War Drums or Gruul War Chant maybe?
Impending Disaster would be the direction I would take this deck.
If you really want to do it every turn, Eye of the Storm can do it. Yes, it will be delicious chaos
But personally I'd double-down on this effect without the Eye, with 4 Teferi's Protection with 4 Heroic Intervention.
You said you wanted ramp, green is the best way to get there anyway.
Then just chuck in whatever wipes you favour, like Armageddon, Impending Disaster etc. and simply grind them out.
Damn. That's not even a very powerful card....
I have a friend who plays a miracles deck.
Whilst completely fair, its tough to beat (with a fair deck)
He runs UW.
His deck centers around Luminarch Ascension & Entreat as token producers, together with Terminus, False Prophet, Final Judgment & Fracturing Gust to keep the field clear AFAIK.
Otherwise the deck is full on top-of-library manipulation tools from memory, like Halimar Depths, Brainstorm, SDT etc.
Worldfire is a combo enabler (think Oblivion Ring targetting Sulfuric Vortex)... not where I'd wanna go here.
Also;
All of your creatures have "enters the battlefield" attached to them. This is pretty useful if you intend on activating your Marvel every turn.
I'd consider some sort of bounce enabler, or something that doubles multiplies triggers to milk it.
Since I last posted I've been doing some testing, and I've arrived to a point where I just don't like this deck idea.
I've tried a few different lists, so far nothing is really jumping out and shaking me.
But I DO like the card-draw part of Grim Haruspex, Fecundity &/or Dark Prophecy, it's just a question of how to make it work.
And yes, I'm strongly considering all 3 in the deck.
And this is pretty much how I feel about it too.
Yep, I've considered those too. I'm not stuck on any colour requirements at present, I'm unsure which way to take the deck, as I'm not happy with where it is. FWIW, I have been considering Priest of Gix & Priest of Urabrask too.
One version I've been testing with runs these with a swag of rainbow lands, evoke creatures, Mana creatures etc. with Living Death. It's silly, but also slightly less potent than a dedicated Living Death deck I like to run.
Yeah it does, I'm gonna stay away from anything infinite.
Total Wombat isn't my kind of card - Hermit Druid makes it far too easy.
I had thought about Ghoultree/Nemesis etc., but it kinda feels like a different deck.
I'm thinking Heartless Summoning is better suited to jamming into a greedy aggro deck like a dullard, and I should stop trying to make it more.
I'm also thinking, that a dedicated deck focused on Grim Haruspex, Fecundity & Dark Prophecy-style perms, should just field creatures that satisfy these perms, like STeve, Fleshbag Marauder/Merciless Executioner, Soldevi Adnate, Children of Korlis, Demon of Death's Gate etc. (these are just off the top of my head, not intended to be the same deck).
This is where my testing is going for now.
A while ago I built an aggro deck based on Heartless Summoning, for the youngsters & noobs to enjoy playing bigger stuff.
Playing with 5-cmc to 7-cmc beaters and clone's etc.
Aggro deck is aggro, and I'm looking to change it up, even if it is effective enough for teaching noobs.
Okay, so question #1;
Thinking about silly territory, but no infinite combo's, so no Myr Retriever-loop into a storm finisher.
I like the interaction between Heartless Summoning & Fecundity (redundancy in Grim Haruspex)
The rough idea is to drop HS & a draw engine (preferably 2), then proceed to churn out a heap of 2-cmc colourless creatures each turn.
4 Dryad Arbor
4 Heartless Summoning
4 Fecundity
4 Grim Haruspex
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Myr Sire
4 Epochrasite
4 Myr Moonvessel
1 Elixir of Immortality
6 Flex SLots?
Some coloured options could be stuff like Elvish Visionary, Steve, Ghast etc. but I'm aiming for colourless.
I'm also considering Myr Superion & Dark Ritual. I may up the land count dependent on where the decks ends up.
So you may notice there is no win-con here. This is where I'm looking for some advice.
Falkenrath Noble is the obvious one here as it's on-colour, but I'm curious what other options are out there, as I'm repulsed by this as a win-con.
Is there something/anything else I can use?
Alrighty, Question #2.
What else can be done with Heartless Summoning? Besides aggro acceleration or weenie-killing combo, what else can this card do?
Cheers
Besides turning creatures sideways, you don't have an alternate win.
For me, decks that go full-retard on counters usually end up running Chandra's Ignition &/or Jared, Golgari Lich Lord, as they can both win games in their own right if turning creatures sideways isn't getting it done.
Forgotten Ancient is worth your time. Corpsejack Menace might be too.
I usually find a single sweeper enough to say goodnight should you over-commit, so make sure you have card draw options.
FWIW, I like Syphon Mind, but I've run Momentous Fall in the past.
Looking at your list, 4 Lurking Predators may fit. Insane for creature heavy decks in multiplayer, Dryad Arbor works with it too.
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Rogue's Passage
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Managorger Hydra
4 Taurean Mauler
4 Forgotten Ancient
2 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Kresh the Bloodbraided
3 Chandra's Ignition
4 Syphon Mind
1 Cauldron of Souls
1 Whip of Erebos