Sorry as I'm new to the community and don't know how to tag this. Does anyone have a cube under $50 that they play with their children? Particularly children who've outgrown Pokemon and are strong readers but maybe don't have the most patience or strategic depth?
Borborygmos and Fblthp has been a solid Temur option. Big-ish body for the cost, board impact, immediate card advantage AND is worth a card a turn, and works well in both Loam and Wildfire strategies if you support them. It's been a cool card.
At $1.50 for the most expensive version, I'm curious to test how it does as a top end finisher. It's not really at its best in Sovereign's Realm, but Worldknit tends to have plenty of extra lands and happily runs things like Life from the Loam and Wildfire since its at its best wrecking the draft for everyone else.
Despite, Maelstrom Wander being relatively narrow, it plays very well in ramp decks as its double cascade + haste can play around (or at least in theory) sweepers, counter spells, planeswalkers etc. I feel I would need a minimum of 2-3 such fatties in my 720.
I think my main argument against that is the movement in smaller cubes towards elves and single-use artifacts as acceleration. After a Wrath, I have Nissa, Who Shakes the World, Garruk Wildspeaker, Sarkhan Unbroken, Coalition Relic, and Worn Powerstone. Sol Ring and Mana Crypt aren't worth counting since almost anyone who sees them will first pick them. Bigger cubes will have signets/talismans as you note. In a bigger cube where you can pick up support cards more easily, I think it's a much better card.
Is Maelstrom getting better over time? It was in my cube for a long time until I cut it for Yasova Dragonclaw. A lot of ramp cards have come out of my cube: Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Utopia Sprawl, etc. How much support did you have to put in for ramp?
I do buy Alesha over Negan/Marchesa. I'm thinking you're probably right on strict accessibility/power in a Cube without Conspiracies. Marchesa isn't Aragorn level...but Monarch is strong and she's really good at helping you keep it in a color combination that doesn't struggle to interact. With Conspiracies, the 5C decks are way more worried about digging/drawing
Is Relic at all worthwhile for decks that don't need the fixing? Again, I can see where it's better than a 4/4 flying Ravenous Rats for 4 that "draws" you a 7 CMC planeswalker.
A lot has changed since 2015, but Aragorn shakes things up enough that I'm looking over my slots trying to figure out what the strongest cards are. So...two sets of proposals. 1) Under standard draft rules where you have to expect difficulty casting a 3-color spell. 2) Under Worldknit/Sovereign's Realm/Unexpected Potential where all spells have de facto colorless costs.
Standard Cube Guesses: Shard
Noble Hierarch / Tamiyo, Field Researcher (depending on how you assign to monocolor vs Shard)
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Ignoble Hierarch / Hellkite Overlord
Wild Nacatl
Wedge
Negan, the Cold Blooded (3+ for one is basically guaranteed)
Sarkhan Unbroken (Probably the worst Wedge)
Aragorn, King of Gondor
Warden of the First Tree
Leovold, Emissary of Trest
With colorless costs, I think a bit changes... In particular, Sovereign's Realm is card-advantage hungry and Worldknit needs to stabilize and dig. So Tamiyo goes from meh to spectacular as it can give you CA or just tap down blockers so your opponent can't stabilize. Similarly, Bolas Dragon God is pricey, but is basically a 3-for-1 if it resolves.
Conspiracy Cube Guesses: Shard
Noble Hierarch / Tamiyo, Field Researcher (depending on how you assign to monocolor vs Shard)
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God
Ignoble Hierarch / Hellkite Overlord
Wild Nacatl (turn 1 "vanilla" 3/3 has aged well)
Wedge
Negan, the Cold Blooded
Sarkhan Unbroken (Still the worst Wedge, but at least stablizes + recurring CA)
Aragorn, King of Gondor
Warden of the First Tree
Leovold, Emissary of Trest
I'd buy that Hellkite Overlord just hasn't kept up with other cheaty targets. I'm hoping I missed something in Abzan, Temur, or Jund. Where do you all stand on the best Shard/Wedge cards and how you handle them?
If your meta demands ramp decks, it's almost surely the best ramp commander. It's no longer competitive since the mulligan rule changed, though. You don't have the speed and consistency when you can't consistently turn 3-4 things you'd like to cascade into into 2-3 ramp spells. That said, this thing is no fun to play against. Its best hands are *still* in competitive territory, its typical hands are a turn short of competitive, and its worst hands are no fun to play because everyone else sitting at the table has no way to know how bad your hand is and they all just stomp you.
I think the thing to remember is that Cube is *not* Standard. Small differences in lists and drafting rules greatly impact card strength. Eg. Worldknit and Sovereign's Realm tremendously change the playability of color-intensive cards, mess with pick orders, and muddy up drafters' expectations of what will wheel and what won't. As another example, Black Lotus is pretty much unplayable trash in a Type 4 cube.
Getting into debates here is only worthwhile insofar as it allows you to see someone else's thought process, explain your own, and maybe even improve your thought process. After all, it's not like you can try every permutation of the tens of thousands of cards in the game with just your playgroup.
Don't get me wrong, nerd-baiting can be fun because some people here have interestingly narrow definitions of "house rules", "fun", and "fair." But that's armchair psychology, not cube design and refinement.
You're pretty much "forced" to -3 it when it comes down, so the statistics of actually getting two critters matters. The ultimate might as well not be on the card since you're just drawing two critters, playing them the next two turns, and probably killing the opponent or reloading that way. The card is good, but more saga-like than most planeswalkers. Both riot "modes" are solid, though. It's not an awful aggro curve topper or a bad mid-range support card. Is it better than Arlinn's flexibility, Sarkhan's threaten, or Xenagos's ramp? It's the only of the three that draws cards (pre-ultimate), but also the only one that asks you to spend mana.
Anyone have a log of RG cube decks to suggest a reasonable average creature count from? If you're actually drawing 2x critters more than 50% of the time, it's more interesting. My guess is that it's just a Harmonize (draws 1.5 critters and a "land").
My posts tend to be pretty unpopular, but I try to make sure that trying to draft an archetype in my cube is a trap. I include all the conspiracies that let other players dip into your color and strategy so that people are forced to draft based on what they've seen and not based on what they expect to see. Control and quick aggro (unless you snag Emissary's Ploy)are very difficult to put together. The result is that you always get mid-range decks with weird synergies trying to grind out value and outplay one another. So...that may not be your meta. Including the color-breaking conspiracies (Worldknit, Sovereign's Realm, and Emissary's Ploy) in your cube completely changes the drafting experience in a way no single card without the card type "Conspiracy" can.
Blue tempo in general is better than people usually expect from other cubes. Sunder, Parallax Tide, light countermagic (Force Spike and Daze in particular goes up in utility), and the various 3/1 and 2/1 evasive beaters. My cube has slowly been moving away from aggro critters in blue, but Geist and Edric are real and superstars in decks that ignore their color requirements. "Mono red" with Geist and Edric is just brutal. Parallax Tide is functionally a one-sided Armageddon in a mid-range deck. Similarly, land destruction has a solid tendency to help people get mana screwed. People tend not to include it in their cubes because it's feel-bad, but if you're aiming for power level and your cube is designed to wreck archetypes, tempo is king. On the note of wrecking archetypes, Volatile Chimera completely hoses the reanimation player while giving red aggro and mid-range decks solid late picks. The meta-drafting effect of messing up someone's draft is possibly even stronger than its in-game abilites. My cube doeesn't even include Entomb because it's just a trap that seldom makes a maindeck. I had the same problem with Sneak Attack.
Also, Contract from Below with the original ante rules, not the Fourth Edition update nonsense they put out to stop ante play. The tournament is for ante and at the end of the last round, the TO wins all of the cards. Note that MtG floor rules require that when a player drafts a card they own it.
Also makes signaling weird, as the color will seem open if the spells flow.
The entire point of conspiracies is to wreck "signalling." Between Hymn, Sovereign's Realm, and Worldknit, my drafters know better than to try to read the tea leaves. Draft is about building a deck given fundamental uncertainty about what you might see and what will wheel. If you want archetypes, go play Standard. If you want to build a different deck and explore new synergies every time you sit down, play Cube.
Will Kenrith with Rowan for free in Izzet. That should balance off Fire//Ice, where Fire gets played in Rakdos, Boros, and Gruul decks that can't cast Ice.
Cheering Fanatic might be red Lotus Cobra or might not. It's worth testing, but I'm fairly confident it will be in.
Are you concerned at all about the Izzet section being so planeswalker-dense? I like the idea of including them like this, but having my Izzet section be 3/4 planeswalkers is fairly unappealing to me.
I don't know. My hope is to play with the Kenriths and then decide. It's like Gisela/Bruna, though. Just because you draft Gisela doesn't mean you want Bruna. BUT I can't conceivably justify just giving Bruna a slot on her own merits. So, I just give her for free and occasionally you see some epic Eldrazi meldage (though usually just scoopage).
Will Kenrith with Rowan for free in Izzet. That should balance off Fire//Ice, where Fire gets played in Rakdos, Boros, and Gruul decks that can't cast Ice.
Cheering Fanatic might be red Lotus Cobra or might not. It's worth testing, but I'm fairly confident it will be in.
I think it definitely has promise. It's a bit like a red Lotus Cobra variant, in that it's a ramp effect with a body that can attack decently on curve. I would've killed for this to be a 2/1 first strike instead of a vanilla 2/2, but I could see this being decent.
That was my thought as well: red Lotus Cobra.
I think people are under-estimating the value of turning the Incinerate variants into Bolts. You get the ramp before blockers are declared. If they would have a blocker, kill it at a discount. If not, drop a Chandra/Purphoros/Karn/equipped sword ahead of curve.
This wont work because you have to name the card you are discounting before casting it. can't switch depending on the scenario.
The only things that might catch you off guard are flash critters like Restoration Angel or instants that can make tokens like Secure the Wastes. You generally know if your opponent has blockers.
I think it definitely has promise. It's a bit like a red Lotus Cobra variant, in that it's a ramp effect with a body that can attack decently on curve. I would've killed for this to be a 2/1 first strike instead of a vanilla 2/2, but I could see this being decent.
That was my thought as well: red Lotus Cobra.
I think people are under-estimating the value of turning the Incinerate variants into Bolts. You get the ramp before blockers are declared. If they would have a blocker, kill it at a discount. If not, drop a Chandra/Purphoros/Karn/equipped sword ahead of curve.
Favorite card: Doomsday. It gives you exactly what you need every time. With a little foresight, you can usually even end the game immediately after casting it. Vampiric Tutor's big brother.
Favorite card: Doomsday. No other card guarantees that you'll see exactly what you want for the rest of the game without helping out your opponents too.
At $1.50 for the most expensive version, I'm curious to test how it does as a top end finisher. It's not really at its best in Sovereign's Realm, but Worldknit tends to have plenty of extra lands and happily runs things like Life from the Loam and Wildfire since its at its best wrecking the draft for everyone else.
I think my main argument against that is the movement in smaller cubes towards elves and single-use artifacts as acceleration. After a Wrath, I have Nissa, Who Shakes the World, Garruk Wildspeaker, Sarkhan Unbroken, Coalition Relic, and Worn Powerstone. Sol Ring and Mana Crypt aren't worth counting since almost anyone who sees them will first pick them. Bigger cubes will have signets/talismans as you note. In a bigger cube where you can pick up support cards more easily, I think it's a much better card.
I do buy Alesha over Negan/Marchesa. I'm thinking you're probably right on strict accessibility/power in a Cube without Conspiracies. Marchesa isn't Aragorn level...but Monarch is strong and she's really good at helping you keep it in a color combination that doesn't struggle to interact. With Conspiracies, the 5C decks are way more worried about digging/drawing
Is Relic at all worthwhile for decks that don't need the fixing? Again, I can see where it's better than a 4/4 flying Ravenous Rats for 4 that "draws" you a 7 CMC planeswalker.
Standard Cube Guesses:
Shard
Wedge
With colorless costs, I think a bit changes... In particular, Sovereign's Realm is card-advantage hungry and Worldknit needs to stabilize and dig. So Tamiyo goes from meh to spectacular as it can give you CA or just tap down blockers so your opponent can't stabilize. Similarly, Bolas Dragon God is pricey, but is basically a 3-for-1 if it resolves.
Conspiracy Cube Guesses:
Shard
Wedge
I'd buy that Hellkite Overlord just hasn't kept up with other cheaty targets. I'm hoping I missed something in Abzan, Temur, or Jund. Where do you all stand on the best Shard/Wedge cards and how you handle them?
I recommend playing something else.
Getting into debates here is only worthwhile insofar as it allows you to see someone else's thought process, explain your own, and maybe even improve your thought process. After all, it's not like you can try every permutation of the tens of thousands of cards in the game with just your playgroup.
Don't get me wrong, nerd-baiting can be fun because some people here have interestingly narrow definitions of "house rules", "fun", and "fair." But that's armchair psychology, not cube design and refinement.
Anyone have a log of RG cube decks to suggest a reasonable average creature count from? If you're actually drawing 2x critters more than 50% of the time, it's more interesting. My guess is that it's just a Harmonize (draws 1.5 critters and a "land").
Blue tempo in general is better than people usually expect from other cubes. Sunder, Parallax Tide, light countermagic (Force Spike and Daze in particular goes up in utility), and the various 3/1 and 2/1 evasive beaters. My cube has slowly been moving away from aggro critters in blue, but Geist and Edric are real and superstars in decks that ignore their color requirements. "Mono red" with Geist and Edric is just brutal. Parallax Tide is functionally a one-sided Armageddon in a mid-range deck. Similarly, land destruction has a solid tendency to help people get mana screwed. People tend not to include it in their cubes because it's feel-bad, but if you're aiming for power level and your cube is designed to wreck archetypes, tempo is king. On the note of wrecking archetypes, Volatile Chimera completely hoses the reanimation player while giving red aggro and mid-range decks solid late picks. The meta-drafting effect of messing up someone's draft is possibly even stronger than its in-game abilites. My cube doeesn't even include Entomb because it's just a trap that seldom makes a maindeck. I had the same problem with Sneak Attack.
Also, Contract from Below with the original ante rules, not the Fourth Edition update nonsense they put out to stop ante play. The tournament is for ante and at the end of the last round, the TO wins all of the cards. Note that MtG floor rules require that when a player drafts a card they own it.
The entire point of conspiracies is to wreck "signalling." Between Hymn, Sovereign's Realm, and Worldknit, my drafters know better than to try to read the tea leaves. Draft is about building a deck given fundamental uncertainty about what you might see and what will wheel. If you want archetypes, go play Standard. If you want to build a different deck and explore new synergies every time you sit down, play Cube.
I don't know. My hope is to play with the Kenriths and then decide. It's like Gisela/Bruna, though. Just because you draft Gisela doesn't mean you want Bruna. BUT I can't conceivably justify just giving Bruna a slot on her own merits. So, I just give her for free and occasionally you see some epic Eldrazi meldage (though usually just scoopage).
The only things that might catch you off guard are flash critters like Restoration Angel or instants that can make tokens like Secure the Wastes. You generally know if your opponent has blockers.
That was my thought as well: red Lotus Cobra.
I think people are under-estimating the value of turning the Incinerate variants into Bolts. You get the ramp before blockers are declared. If they would have a blocker, kill it at a discount. If not, drop a Chandra/Purphoros/Karn/equipped sword ahead of curve.
Slam dunk at all sizes? A red-critter with an on-curve body that ramps by doing the thing red wants most: attacking.