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  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Do the Coiling Oracles perform that much better than Burning Tree Emissary to warrant them as the only blue cards in the deck?
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    I'd say Devotion has too many variants to have a single "core" list beyond:
    4 Arbor Elf
    2-4 Birds of Paradise
    4 Utopia Sprawl
    3-4 Nykthos
    1 Kessig Wolf Run

    There are Planeswalker heavy lists that run low creature count, Collected Company lists that run high creature count and no Planeswalkers, Pact lists that focus on fast explosive games, and Command lists that try to grind out value in a longer game. You're not gonna get 50 cards that match among them.

    And then separately from those are the Tooth and Nail lists which have a different gameplan.

    Lastly, there's a lot of experimentation going on in this thread with people trying different colors and focuses, either for fun, or to see how competitive they can be (or both) so some recently posted lists are not well tested against a wide meta.

    I would suggest proxying a couple different variations if you have some friends to test against and see which you like best. I built a Command-style version but am slowly piecing together the other parts to change it up if I want to.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Went 2-2 in my local weekly tournament. Had 26 folks show tonight. Running the same Eternal-Command list as last week except I dropped Obstinate Baloths for Dismembers in the side. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/stompy-green-devotion/ (sideboard has already been changed from the time of the tourney)

    =R1 Latern Control 2-1 W
    L G1: Ensnaring Bridge locked me out of everything.
    W G2: Fracturing Gust + Eternal Witness got a concenssion from my opponent.
    W G3: He Thoughtsiezed me t3 or 4 to reveal Eternal Witness, Fracturing Gust and Primal Command. Conceded on the spot.
    SB: Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, 2x Fracturing Gust, 3x Blood Moon. Only drew Gust. Gust was all I needed.

    =R2 Boros Burn 2-1 W
    L G1: He just burned me out too fast
    W G2: Ruric Thar, Unbowed is your homeboy.
    W G3: Super close game, even with a resolved Ruric. He had me at 3 life and then Kessig trampled for exactsies.
    SB: Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, 2 Kozilek's Return, 2 Walking Ballista. G2 Resolved Ballista at X=2 to get around Eidolon.

    =R3 Scapeshift 1-2 L
    L G1: Too many Valakuts. He dealt me 36 in one turn whilst I was at 34 life.
    W G2: Topdecked Craterhoof FTW.
    L G3: I got mana screwed with 2 Blood Moon in hand. He beat me with Inferno Titan so the Moons didn't matter.
    SB: Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, 3x Blood Moon. Against Thar he just cast Primeval Titan for 2 Mountain and double-Valakuted Thar. Not worth it.

    =R4 Scales Affinity 1-2 L
    W G1: Got the beats in with Polukranos, World Eater for the win.
    L G2: Stuck on mana with double Blood Moon.
    L G3: He had a fast start with T1 Scales into double Arcbound Ravager to nail me with 15 infect on turn 3.
    SB: 3x Blood Moon, 2x Kozilek's Return, 2x Fracturing Gust, 2x Dismember. But I only saw the Moons.

    I still feel like 3x Blood Moon is correct, even though I got stuck with 2 early copies R3 and R4. My meta is control- and tron-light, with a lot of other green ramp decks (Amulet Titan, Scapeshift, 5c Bring to Light) so I'm having to skew my SB away from what I'd expect at a larger event. I can definitely understand about some players not knowing how to play against Devotion. My burn opponent last night was very proficient with his spells/triggers but had to read just about every card I played.

    As for the Knight of Autumn, I think if I wanted to go with the white splash, I'd look at something closer to Fulgence's decklist. Keeping a red splash for Kessig Wolf Run wouldn't be too hard but if we're trying to cast 3-drops in white, it would take some adjustment (and I'd probably have to drop my SLCs).
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from CurdBros »
    I haven't determined the exact reason for my U/W Control match up to be "positive" yet...Genesis Hydra helps too.


    I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that against a walker list, all the removal and board wipes in Control decks are dead against planeswalkers, and their counterspells can't stop planewalker activations so you still manage to keep a board presence and grind out advantage that they just can't interact with very easily.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Mender »

    I'm testing your list and it's very good. SLC puts the pressure that AS list was missing.
    Another option os change the Witness Loop for Pacts and more toolbox creatures, but I don't have idea for this changes now.


    The pressure from the SLC definitely helps keep the opponent on the back foot while you build towards a lethal board. Getting stuck on green mana when you need 3 for SLC does happen, but infrequently enough that I still think the card is strong enough on its own merit to include 4x. I wouldn't question anyone for dropping to 3 but I still want to keep at least 3. It was my highest damage dealer on the night and forced my opponents to make bad trades to get it off the table. Plopping another one down right after they dealt with one was backbreaking. I never tutored for or cast Craterhoof.

    As for the Witness, I just made a conscious decision when I bought the deck to go the Eternal-Command route instead of BTE-Pact b/c I expected to be playing more grindy decks. Witness was invaluable for me in the Wildfire matchup, where I cast & rebought Fracturing Gust 3x. And having the different modes of Primal Command is super flexible. I used every mode at least once- +7 life vs Wildfire/Burn, Bounce noncreature vs pretty much everything, shuffle graveyard vs the Abzan deck who had Grim Flayer for Delirium, and search for creature just about every time.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Went 3-1 on Thursday in a 20 man local tourney, running an Eternal-Command list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/stompy-green-devotion/

    R1 Wildfire Chandra 2-1 W
    L G1 Wildfire shut me down and I couldn't recover.
    W G2 Fracturing Gust shut her down and she couldn't recover.
    W G3 I played around removal and she didn't draw enough mana to cast Wildfire.
    SB: 2 Fracturing Gust, Ruric Thar

    R2 Boros Burn 2-1 W
    L G1 Got stuck on multiple SLCs in hand with only Forest Forest Nykthos
    W G2 Kept enough pressure to seal the win.
    W G3 Primal Command for Ruric Thar sealed the win.
    SB: 2 Kozilek's Return, Ruric Thar

    R3 Junk Goodstuff 2-0 W
    W G1 Just had bigger creatures and Kessig put out too much pressure.
    W G2 He didn't have enough removal and double Kessig sealed the win.
    SB: Nothing, but maybe Blood Moon would've been prudent.

    R4 Bring to Light Kiki Combo 0-2 L
    L G1 Had Glittering Wish in opening hand and was just too fast.
    L G2 Got Wish early and I couldn't find answers fast enough.
    SB: 2 Kozilek's Return, 2 Ballista, 1 Blood Moon

    I guess I need to find an answer to fast Kiki Combo. I had command of the board and was about to swing for lethal next turn, but of course he combos out. Raking Canopy is my first thought, if I can find the SB space for it.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Curdbros, have you tested Garruk, Apex Predator in your walker list? He's on the high side, and you need to have Birds or Oath of Nissa to cast him, but he'll eat opposing creatures really well, and deals with opposing Planeswalkers efficiently. I've been wanting to try him in my SB but I don't think I can make room for him right now.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from lord_darkview »
    I played in a small Team Unified Modern event yesterday. My personal record was 3-2. I wrote up a report here, for those who are interested: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hLIoERAxZVfrfI1zNUyUBOga1KbpqHpxNST1ucNsd5M/edit?usp=sharing


    I already chatted you up about this on Discord (username Dav), but thanks again for the insight and details. More data is always helpful.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    I like the SLCs in the maindeck for board presence, but like Mender said, I feel we need low mana cost bodies that can help with draws. SLC holds the field, but doesn't smooth out draws or recover from removal (especially in the absence of Oath of Nissa). I'm also running SCL md but I can't tell whether to pair it with Courser of Kruphix, Runic Armasaur, Tireless Tracker, or just plain old Wistful Selkie. Carven Caryatid, Jadelight Ranger and even Domri Rade are on my radar for that slot.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Collected Company Elves
    Quote from VIPowL »
    Lots of good info, etc.


    Congrats man! Thanks for the write-up this is all very helpful to know, especially the sideboard stuff.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)


    I like the inclusion of Duskwatch Recruiter, but I'm on the fence about Ballista because it can't be selected with CoCo. I would also pack more power into the lower-cost dudes for more explosive CoCos - drop the BTEs & Coursers for SLC or E.Wit to buy back your CoCo.

    I've also wanted to harness Coco in G Devo, but I decided it was a bad idea to split between a bunch of <4-drops for CoCo and some top-end Coco-misses. Instead I'm going to put together a low-curve stompy aggro using Aspect of Hydra and Rhonas for devotion payoff. I've only goldfished it so far but consistently landing t2 SLC or Leatherback Baloth is a quick clock. It will still need some tuning, and might still fall short of the power level needed.

    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Sorry for not getting back to reply till now. Here's my thoughts on your questions:
    1. About TnN: In this particular combo list, I would not recommend running TnN; it seems more like an "accidental, oops I have 9 mana" card, and at that point, yes, you should just be playing a TnN deck.

    2. Skalla Wolf: In a toolbox deck, you pinpoint bullet searches, rather than graze among the top 5. While the wolf isn't bad, I don't think he's worth a 5-drop slot in your deck.

    3. Thar v Hoof: I definitely recommend Hoof over Ruric. Ruric will still take some turns to close out the game, during which time they could find an answer. Hoof usually just wins on the spot.

    Other parts of the discussion: I see you're not running any Birds of Paradise or ramp creatures other than the Arbor Elves. Especially with only 20 lands, this hurts the consistency of your openers, and increases vulnerability to early bolts/pushes. I like the suggestion of dropping black to help this consistency and free up some slots for a land and a couple mana dorks. I'd also limit your toolbox target slots to maybe 4, and push the rest to sideboard. You don't need to be prepared for every matchup in game 1. Instead of having quite so many expensive drops, shore up your early game devotion creatures to help propel your mana into the endgame threats either by drawing (Runic Armasaur) or searching (Chord/command).

    Overall, a pretty spicy list with some very fun combos. I like your take on it.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from SleepyLynx »
    Hi guys, a new guy just starting on MTG and first time posting. I am very interested in making a toolbox green devotion deck and have a few questions:

    1) if my list is almost identical to the primer list (3 primal command, 3 chord of calling, 3 abrupt decay, 2 Nissa oath, 4 utopian, toolbox creatures), is tooth and nails still necessary? I mean, it would allow a quick angle of restor + Kiki combo but wouldn’t that mean I might as well be playing a full 4 x tooth and nail list to be more consistent? Would cutting one primal command for t&n matter too much?

    2) I am thinking a little about adding a one of skalla wolf as it could tutor for abrupt decay and other sorcery, something oath of Nissa couldn’t do. It is not uncommon to be able to pump out 5 mana on turn 2-3 and also contributes GG devotion.

    3) lastly, Ruric Thar or Hoofdaddy? Ruric thar seems awesome against all sort of modern play 10 cards a turn strategies but will it be too slow when it hits the battlefield on turn 3? Or should I just force the game to end quickly on turn 5-6 by having hoofdaddy fetchable in my deck?

    I have no experience yet with the deck and would really appreciate helpful feedback to justify my financial commitments before joining the Green Devotion family!


    Good questions, but it sounds a like a slightly unorthodox list. Can you post a full proposed decklist so we can see how it all interacts together before making suggestions on your questions?
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from askrzypczak »
    My mulligan decisions are very basic. Generally, if there is a turn 1 ramp spell, I will keep it.

    exceptions:
    1. entire hand is 1 cmc ramp and lands
    2. 2 lands and 1 dork, and rest of cards have cmc 5 and up
    3. 1 land, and only 2 1cmc cards.


    It is not that common to have the turn 3 craterhoof win, but it is very common to be able to present a lethal goldfish combat damage total on turn 6.
    A good metric for whether you should keep the hand is whether you attack for a cumulative total of 20 damage on your 6th turn.

    The power of green is that our 'faliure' hands always provide proactive pressure. If both you and tron have 'failure' hands, you will win just because you have a pile of 2/2s and 3/3s that turn sideways. This is why i avoid cards like selkie and elvish visionary. All the cards I play that are not 1cmc mana dorks are able to stand on their own without nykthos. If you remove nykthos from the deck, you get a bad aggro deck. But a bad aggro deck is the failure case, and that is a lot better than most other combo decks in modern.

    Generally, I just accept that a percentage of my keeps will end up in horrible losses. I do not try to mulligan into the god hands. Instead, I follow a deck construction philosophy that says I am not an all-in combo deck, and that my combo starts and ends with pact, bte, hoof, hornet queen, and nykthos. Every other card has to produce 2 devotion or put a card into my hand, be resilient to removal, and just be a good card that synergies with the idea of a medium aggro deck that tries to go wide. As long as it has 2 devotion, the concession to playing nykthos is done.

    This is why i do not play selkie. If a card is not good without nykthos on the battlefield, then it is not worth playing.


    Great wisdom here. Thanks for letting us inside your mind Smile
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from CurdBros »
    I love hearing the announcers say that Green Devotion is a “Ponza Variant”....not quite Smile


    I find it truly cringe-worthy :p
    Posted in: Big Mana
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