Dang, I guess I'm in the minority here but I think that Rancor is the best card in the deck and a key reason to play it. It deals more damage than any other single card in nearly every match-up, and is only ever really bad against Chalice Of The Void or a rare Spellskite. I would never play fewer than 4, especially in the lower to the ground zero 3CMC build I've been playing.
I'm on your side -- and its that much better with Syr Faren to get massive damage through.
My thoughts on the discussion are this, Rancor is actually a very useful card to have main since many of our creatures don't have penetration aids like trample or flying natively. Only steel leaf and avatar have any kind of penetration aid and having rancor added to some of our early creatures with a not insignificant amount of power plus the trample ability so that if/when an opponent does start to block you aren't loosing back end damage. Yes there is the 2 for 1 aspect but then there is always going to be a removal argument as well. Additionally if they do destroy a creature with rancor on it before you at the very least are getting a rancor back for another creature.
The problem is not when you stick a Rancor it's if they reply to the Rancor which buries it too.
I agree with Slipper and Tactician, but I really don't think Fierce Witchstalker is a negligible preference choice. It's arguably better than Peema Outrider, and that guy is an all-star. You trade a Servo for a Food token, but you get to keep the full 4/4 stats. At the very least, it represents a direct upgrade to Baloth Gorger, which is barely better if you support super-ramp AND +1/+1 counters. Trample is just better. And getting to chow down on some food to recoup life is a big deal.
Do let us know how Giant's Skewer goes. It's a bit overpriced and the opponent has way too much control in how you benefit, but I'm hoping for more interesting equipment designs like this one.
Ah, maybe I've been underestimating Peema. I thought the general preference was for the 5 power 4 drops. I agree that at first blush Witchstalker looks very good (4/4 trample for 4 with upside is pretty nuts)
Caller is great with many cards. Glorybringer, Flametongue Kavu, Nightpack Ambusher and Deranged Hermit have all been used in recent drafts to great success.
I've even seen a big ramp deck use Ashen Rider to success!
While not an optimal target, was extremely fun. I could hear the guy laughing from down the table as he went off.
Unless you guys are gambling for high stakes or having some kind of professional cube circuit, I do think fun should be a design principle to keep heavily in mind when debating between cards. I found caller to be a fun card.
Novelty is generally fun, and combining different cards with it means the card stays fresher for longer.
Yeah I view this as one of the greater strengths of the card, as well as some of the hidden agendas. They always play slightly differently, encourage creativity and generate stories.
Ashen Rider is certainly risky, but sounds awesome that it worked.
Other points in its favor is that it is one of the few green four drops that doesn't cost double green mana, and that it allows usage of some of the undrafted cards, so more picks matter. Changing the named card between games is not rare, which amplifies this effect.
Caller is great with many cards. Glorybringer, Flametongue Kavu, Nightpack Ambusher and Deranged Hermit have all been used in recent drafts to great success.
I've even seen a big ramp deck use Ashen Rider to success!
While not an optimal target, was extremly fun. I could hear the guy laughing from down the table as he went off.
Unless you guys are gambling for high stakes or having some kind of professional cube circuit, I do think fun should be a design principle to keep heavily in mind when debating between cards. I found caller to be a fun card.
Novelty is generally fun, and combining different cards with it means the card stays fresher for longer.
I concur on this point. Sometimes we push novelty to the point where it ends up being totally unfun. And then we just stop cubing for a while until everyone gets over the resentment. Being berserked out on turn 2 (fill in your own broken scenario) turns out to be really sucky. Who knew.
There's at least a little blame in liking Nickelback
Some of the banding cards are a bit weak as well, but like arcane, there is a very small pool to pull from. You don't need to make brutal cuts to these strategies (or you'll kill the strategy), but I have a hard time seeing Icatian Skirmishers going anywhere.
We put together some low power stuff sometimes and you are right that Icatian Skirmishers don't cut it. And that is in decks that use some of the other Icatian banders from Fallen Empires.
Caller is great with many cards. Glorybringer, Flametongue Kavu, Nightpack Ambusher and Deranged Hermit have all been used in recent drafts to great success.
After thinking about it you're right and I'm underestimating the Caller. I'm going to lobby to include it in our next session.
If you split up the beginning phase you could still achieve a recurring lock if your opponent is tapped out but they would get their card for their turn. If they're not tapped out is the issue (mainly I guess they'd have to draw some removal spell for Clocknapper).
So I'm not totally sure but I can tell you that Clocknapper is easily a top 5 blue creature if you build around it. By comparison, Arcane Savant can do a few infinite combos by itself but you mostly have to run some rather narrow cards for that (eg Twinflame)
The thing with Clocknapper is that you need some way to abuse its ability because natively it isn't as good as you might think at first glance. I'm not sure if Caller of the Untamed qualifies as an effective way to abuse it or not though. It would be good once you (eventually) get it going.
I have no idea what cards or how many we will end up adding but for high powered <=360 Cubes I think Rankle adds something interesting while the Shieldbreaker should be a good roleplayer. I have no idea how Once Upon a Time will work out. Brazen Borrower seems like a great tempo card but most Cubes seem to push heavy control or combo in Blue. We've long thought tempo was on the verge of being too good in blue if you seeded the cards for it ("too good" ofc being relative since there are also a sizable number of insta-wins if you opt to Cube them). Not sure about the gruul persist enabler because I'm not sure if we'd go for persist combo without the Muzzio conspiracy. Persist combo isn't the funnest thing in the world to begin with.
Resounding "no" on The Royal Scions for us since we just proxied Inzerva, Master of Insights. That thing is ridiculous.
Does anybody else value the human beaters in red higher due to the human boosters in White? That would make me consider a different cut than Stormblood Berserker for the new Manic Vandal variant.
I am not that much into theory crafting as I tend to test the cards one by one. So I take my build slot the cards in and then test them. If I like them I they stay If I dislike them I go back to the old version. And I'm trying to do this for every card. But as the MH cards are so expensive to acquire It took me some time to grind the Hexdrinkers on MTGO. Therefore my queue of cards to test is pretty long.
But I also strongly considered dropping the 3 drops all together. Same as I am considering dropping Rancors. With all the new toys we got it looks viable. I strongly believe that we are keeping cards like Rancor and the 3 drops just out of habit, as we are so used to them being mainstays in the deck for to long. So at least for me its a big emotional hurdle to pass before I remove them. But there is a high chance that we might be better of without 3 drops and Rancor.
3 drops I agree but without Rancor you have to make sure you are still fast enough in game 1.
About Sir F: getting his running mate killed is not the extent of our concerns. Since you have to pump him before attacking to get the bonus they can just kill him beforehand and you get nothing. So he very much needs to be protected at all times.
I'm on your side -- and its that much better with Syr Faren to get massive damage through.
The problem is not when you stick a Rancor it's if they reply to the Rancor which buries it too.
Ah, maybe I've been underestimating Peema. I thought the general preference was for the 5 power 4 drops. I agree that at first blush Witchstalker looks very good (4/4 trample for 4 with upside is pretty nuts)
Yeah, it was running plays like that through my mind that convinced me Caller is pretty good
I concur on this point. Sometimes we push novelty to the point where it ends up being totally unfun. And then we just stop cubing for a while until everyone gets over the resentment. Being berserked out on turn 2 (fill in your own broken scenario) turns out to be really sucky. Who knew.
We put together some low power stuff sometimes and you are right that Icatian Skirmishers don't cut it. And that is in decks that use some of the other Icatian banders from Fallen Empires.
After thinking about it you're right and I'm underestimating the Caller. I'm going to lobby to include it in our next session.
So I'm not totally sure but I can tell you that Clocknapper is easily a top 5 blue creature if you build around it. By comparison, Arcane Savant can do a few infinite combos by itself but you mostly have to run some rather narrow cards for that (eg Twinflame)
The thing with Clocknapper is that you need some way to abuse its ability because natively it isn't as good as you might think at first glance. I'm not sure if Caller of the Untamed qualifies as an effective way to abuse it or not though. It would be good once you (eventually) get it going.
Briarhorn has always generated highlights whenever we've had it in. Really fond of it personally.
Resounding "no" on The Royal Scions for us since we just proxied Inzerva, Master of Insights. That thing is ridiculous.
3 drops I agree but without Rancor you have to make sure you are still fast enough in game 1.
About Sir F: getting his running mate killed is not the extent of our concerns. Since you have to pump him before attacking to get the bonus they can just kill him beforehand and you get nothing. So he very much needs to be protected at all times.