Hey guys - I was thinking about starting a thread that was basically a record of my edh games. I am just starting it and played at a store for the first time on Sunday. I thought it would be cool and allow me to track changes, match ups, etc. I can't figure out what forum is appropriate. It would cover casual and multiplayer edh, possibly competitive in time. I'd post and track my decklist, so I couldn't have it on the main page. Any thoughts on where it best fits?
That's why I like the torch, it comes out turn 4 when people are still trying to get things up and running. Admittedly I run a controll deck so I have a chance at defending her to her ultimate, especially with the boost in mana she brings. And her up powers are so flexible.
I admit I'm not as familiar with EDH as you guys, but I'll wager that torch is better in edh than ablaze and flamecaller is in preconstructed.
I dunno - some cards you just love out of emotion rather perhaps logic and for me the Torch is one of them
I know EDH's convention for multiplayer is all on all, but why? If it's casual and you have an even number, team up. Use some 2HG format or make your own. Games will.be faster, but also, if you get eliminated first you don't have to wait 1-2 hours for the next one to start
She'd do well in one of the izzet draw-commander decks, like the locust god or niv-mizzet, parun. 6 mana for a planes walker is that bit much than I'd like, but you can't deny she'd be great for a well suited commander. I doubt you'd use anything except her +0 ability...
I agree with you evaluation, those catagories are spot on. From play experience i'd like to add that Jori En encourages you to cast exactly two spells, and do that every turn. This is a value engine that only fuels herself as long as you have mana to keep doing it. Thus her typical curve is very low. Her payoffs however, come in the form of the cards you allready mentioned.
I haven't played Jori and only after this thread have been realising the power of her. That being said, I do like my commanders as 'tanks' as I feel like 'that's the format' but I can see how that is just my opinion. Certainly in multiplayer, I can see how Jori would be the better commander. I would actually says she is closer to the 'control commanders' since you don't get a reward for a draw, plus, you already have a decent draw engine. Your deck would be full of red damage and blue counter rather than cantrips and draw.
Last year I decided to build a deck with one of the gods from Theros as commander, and it ended up with Keranos, God of Storms because of the "draw one more when top card is land"-ability. The number of lands in that deck is 50 (because why not?), looting effects and land cycling. That deck is still a bit experimental and goodstuffy as I have not played with it much to see what it needs.
50 land? I find this very interesting. Each draw you get with Keranos is a lightning bolt you didn't get. So I cannot see any reason not to stick to a normal mana curve. Certainly you could be the on the generous side of it, but, 50? Could you expand your thinking? Is it just because repeated lightning bolts attract attention in multiplayer, or is there a reason I cannot see?
When I got Niv-Mizzet, Parun promo from the prerelease I decided to put it in my deck, and later it ended with adding the other two dragons to it. Some of the reasons is that I had curiosity in the deck (Keranos can ping opponents too), that is a combo with Niv-Mizzet, and the Niv-mizeets fits in the drawing theme in the deck.
My Keranos deck is full of pingers, so definitely curiosity and of course artifacts that give deathtouch. I don't like giving curiosity to Keranos though, as you lose it if devotion goes down. I'd prefer the 3 damage be spend on board control, and have a 1 damage pinger get you your card. I have the Niv's in my deck (sans Parus but it will go in when I get around to it) because they are a lot of fun, not necessarily because I think it's the most powerful thing to do. But it probably is.
I think the locust god is one of the most fun decks out there. Additionally, with only around 10 cards changed I think you could make a niv-mizzet, parun deck, as they overlap so much.
I had been wondering this same question myself. One of my oldest decks is a Niv-Mzzet, the Firemind deck that I have had since 2008. The Locust God was a natural inclusion in the deck when it came out, but I never thought of replacing Niv-Mizzet as the Commander.
Great feedback from both of you it has really made me realise how flawed my initial groupings were. I said that "it's about doing damage and drawing cards" and "Jori En [is] slightly different than the classic izzet".
I realise now that these can be grouped in two categoies.
- Firemind, Parun and Locust reward you for your draw. Let's call them "draw commanders".
- Whereas Dracogenius and Keranos aid you in board control. Their draw is just a slight bonus. I'll call them "control commanders".
(Jori En is neither really, she rewards you for casting a lot in a single turn)
"Draw commanders" are going to see more cantrips and cards specific to them that will work there but perhaps not great outside of them, like invoke the firemind. "Control commanders" are going to see more counterspells, direct damage, and maybe some pingers to keep your presence. I would suggest that Keranos and Dracogenius could be interchangable in the same deck. Firemind and Parun could too - Locust would slot okay into their decks, but as mentioned, because he generates creatures, things like Skullclamp and purphoros are great for him but wouldn't go with the others.
In other words, I wish I had of redone that poll in order to reflect this. It was a mistake of me to think of classic izzet as "damage and drawing cards" whereas they clearly can be split from each other.
I like them as creatures, exactly, within range of a burn spell of mine dropping them to an enchantment. In case any path to exile comes out or such. I dodged a merciless eviction the other day.
But my favorite is the Guildpact Niv-Mizzet. The new Niv-Mizzet draws a bit too much negativity and The Locust God draws way too much attention to itself.
draw less hate than the others.
doesn't eat removal like its going out of business.
without drawing attention to herself.
I think though a lot depends on the format you play. Multiplayer, 'drawing hate' is a real problem. Something like Jori has an advantage over Parun. But in 1v1 or team games, that matters a lot less. Kudos Shadow for picking the Firemind though, I didn't think he'd get any votes.
edit: Also, it's worth keeping in mind that a counter/damage/draw deck like Izzet will naturally hide itself fairly well in multiplayer. It doesn't really suit the format as you can't control the entire boardstate, meanwhile your mates are ramping and comboing, you are not much more than a pest.
+1 for Jori En. She comes in much faster and doesn't eat removal like its going out of business.
I admit my collection of options is a bit random. It was going to be just a poll for the Niv's, but Keranos plays so similar that I thought he belonged there. Then i might as well put the locus. And in fairness Jori plays similar too, but I also sort of feel like EDH commanders should be "tanks". I know that's silly, but with all the instant damage in my deck, I do delight in removing those with a toughness of 3 or less from a multiplayer game for little reason. The players are always so surprised...
This was originally going to be about comparing the different versions of Niv, but the Gods got added to it... to me Izzet is the best guild to play, it's about doing damage and drawing cards: fun. Nothing helps more than these commanders. Okay Jhoira and Mizzix might be seen as being 'better' but their gamestyles are slightly different than the classic izzet. In my humble opinion.
Here are my thoughts - please vote below. "Best" can mean "most powerful" or "most fun" up to you, but please tell me what you think.
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
The original and the easiest to pull off the curiosity/ophidian eye combo. A lot of fun even outside that, but still, Parun is so similiar and seems to be better in so many ways. The only real advantage it has is 2 colourless is in the price, plus I guess that ability to tap to draw a card can be useful in certain situations.
Niv-Mizzet, Parun
The latest version of Niv, hard to argue against it being the best. Of course you want your commander to stick around, so the inability to counter him is useful, of course from there he is just a normal creature. Has Fireminds best ability (yes you get the curiosity combo you pretend to hate) and a huge ability that restricts your opponent wanting to cast instant or sorcery. Sort of screams "kill me now" in any multiplayer, but don't most commanders? Compared to the others, drawback is the RRRUUU cost. Plus a 5/5 flyer, let's not forget that one.
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
I am a big fan of this card. Works the most different the others, and no curiositycombo. However the huge advantage here is the ability to use RU to do a damage, and if you hit an opponent, draw a card. Aside from the obvious, it is great when you are rocking counterspells. You never know if you want to tap in your turn, or save some mana for a possible counter. Well now you can save and worse case scenario, do dome damage and draw in your end step. The best at controlling the board. Furthermore, you can put in more lands in your deck than you might want. Who cares? Too many lands can't really happen, just get your commander out and draw some more. Downside is lack of any sort of protection.
Keranos, God of Storms
Tactically, Keranos works quite similarly to the Nivs. I have just started using him and have really loved the results. 5CMC is a bit cheaper. You are either lightning bolting or drawing each turn. Plus he is indestructible, which is how you want your commander. I played 3 games on the weekend and he dodged 5 boardwipes, either destroying all creatures or exiling creatures when he wasn't one (one where I smoked one my guys to lose the devotion). Anyway - downside is lack of flying or trample, or even 'haste' given his fun power won't kick in until your draw. Of course won't be a creature a lot, but overall it doesn't bother me as much as I thought. So awesome in so many ways but he comes with a big drawback: you have to reveal your cards, which isn't ideal for a counter deck.
The Locust God
Doesn't work the same as the others, but since I added Keranos I thought I'd add him. Okay I will get this out of my system: the most fun, thematically amazing card ever! Creating loads of bugs, the way he bounces back to your hand (not as useful in commander but can still save you mana in the recast) it's just so fun and so original too - locusts! Thematically I just love him, even the artwork is awesome.* However... as a commander he doesn't control the boardstate the same way the others do. No draw or damage is built in. (Okay sort of draw, at 4cmc to draw and discard.) At 6cmc too... I just really think he is too expensive for what he is. He could be 5cmc and I don't think anyone would have blinked. Just my opinion, I just love this card but think he probably is the weakest of the lot. I was just on edhrec and was surprised to find him so popular? Maybe my issue is playing him like the others instead of his own unique self. But I would argue doesn't play to izzets strengths. I'd love to hear from you if you're a devotee.
Change his casting cost to 1RRUU
Ta.
I admit I'm not as familiar with EDH as you guys, but I'll wager that torch is better in edh than ablaze and flamecaller is in preconstructed.
I dunno - some cards you just love out of emotion rather perhaps logic and for me the Torch is one of them
I know EDH's convention for multiplayer is all on all, but why? If it's casual and you have an even number, team up. Use some 2HG format or make your own. Games will.be faster, but also, if you get eliminated first you don't have to wait 1-2 hours for the next one to start
I haven't played Jori and only after this thread have been realising the power of her. That being said, I do like my commanders as 'tanks' as I feel like 'that's the format' but I can see how that is just my opinion. Certainly in multiplayer, I can see how Jori would be the better commander. I would actually says she is closer to the 'control commanders' since you don't get a reward for a draw, plus, you already have a decent draw engine. Your deck would be full of red damage and blue counter rather than cantrips and draw.
50 land? I find this very interesting. Each draw you get with Keranos is a lightning bolt you didn't get. So I cannot see any reason not to stick to a normal mana curve. Certainly you could be the on the generous side of it, but, 50? Could you expand your thinking? Is it just because repeated lightning bolts attract attention in multiplayer, or is there a reason I cannot see?
My Keranos deck is full of pingers, so definitely curiosity and of course artifacts that give deathtouch. I don't like giving curiosity to Keranos though, as you lose it if devotion goes down. I'd prefer the 3 damage be spend on board control, and have a 1 damage pinger get you your card. I have the Niv's in my deck (sans Parus but it will go in when I get around to it) because they are a lot of fun, not necessarily because I think it's the most powerful thing to do. But it probably is.
Great feedback from both of you it has really made me realise how flawed my initial groupings were. I said that "it's about doing damage and drawing cards" and "Jori En [is] slightly different than the classic izzet".
I realise now that these can be grouped in two categoies.
- Firemind, Parun and Locust reward you for your draw. Let's call them "draw commanders".
- Whereas Dracogenius and Keranos aid you in board control. Their draw is just a slight bonus. I'll call them "control commanders".
(Jori En is neither really, she rewards you for casting a lot in a single turn)
"Draw commanders" are going to see more cantrips and cards specific to them that will work there but perhaps not great outside of them, like invoke the firemind. "Control commanders" are going to see more counterspells, direct damage, and maybe some pingers to keep your presence. I would suggest that Keranos and Dracogenius could be interchangable in the same deck. Firemind and Parun could too - Locust would slot okay into their decks, but as mentioned, because he generates creatures, things like Skullclamp and purphoros are great for him but wouldn't go with the others.
In other words, I wish I had of redone that poll in order to reflect this. It was a mistake of me to think of classic izzet as "damage and drawing cards" whereas they clearly can be split from each other.
I like them as creatures, exactly, within range of a burn spell of mine dropping them to an enchantment. In case any path to exile comes out or such. I dodged a merciless eviction the other day.
No experiment one? Or predator ooze?
I think though a lot depends on the format you play. Multiplayer, 'drawing hate' is a real problem. Something like Jori has an advantage over Parun. But in 1v1 or team games, that matters a lot less. Kudos Shadow for picking the Firemind though, I didn't think he'd get any votes.
edit: Also, it's worth keeping in mind that a counter/damage/draw deck like Izzet will naturally hide itself fairly well in multiplayer. It doesn't really suit the format as you can't control the entire boardstate, meanwhile your mates are ramping and comboing, you are not much more than a pest.
I admit my collection of options is a bit random. It was going to be just a poll for the Niv's, but Keranos plays so similar that I thought he belonged there. Then i might as well put the locus. And in fairness Jori plays similar too, but I also sort of feel like EDH commanders should be "tanks". I know that's silly, but with all the instant damage in my deck, I do delight in removing those with a toughness of 3 or less from a multiplayer game for little reason. The players are always so surprised...
Here are my thoughts - please vote below. "Best" can mean "most powerful" or "most fun" up to you, but please tell me what you think.
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
The original and the easiest to pull off the curiosity/ophidian eye combo. A lot of fun even outside that, but still, Parun is so similiar and seems to be better in so many ways. The only real advantage it has is 2 colourless is in the price, plus I guess that ability to tap to draw a card can be useful in certain situations.
Niv-Mizzet, Parun
The latest version of Niv, hard to argue against it being the best. Of course you want your commander to stick around, so the inability to counter him is useful, of course from there he is just a normal creature. Has Fireminds best ability (yes you get the curiosity combo you pretend to hate) and a huge ability that restricts your opponent wanting to cast instant or sorcery. Sort of screams "kill me now" in any multiplayer, but don't most commanders? Compared to the others, drawback is the RRRUUU cost. Plus a 5/5 flyer, let's not forget that one.
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
I am a big fan of this card. Works the most different the others, and no curiositycombo. However the huge advantage here is the ability to use RU to do a damage, and if you hit an opponent, draw a card. Aside from the obvious, it is great when you are rocking counterspells. You never know if you want to tap in your turn, or save some mana for a possible counter. Well now you can save and worse case scenario, do dome damage and draw in your end step. The best at controlling the board. Furthermore, you can put in more lands in your deck than you might want. Who cares? Too many lands can't really happen, just get your commander out and draw some more. Downside is lack of any sort of protection.
Keranos, God of Storms
Tactically, Keranos works quite similarly to the Nivs. I have just started using him and have really loved the results. 5CMC is a bit cheaper. You are either lightning bolting or drawing each turn. Plus he is indestructible, which is how you want your commander. I played 3 games on the weekend and he dodged 5 boardwipes, either destroying all creatures or exiling creatures when he wasn't one (one where I smoked one my guys to lose the devotion). Anyway - downside is lack of flying or trample, or even 'haste' given his fun power won't kick in until your draw. Of course won't be a creature a lot, but overall it doesn't bother me as much as I thought. So awesome in so many ways but he comes with a big drawback: you have to reveal your cards, which isn't ideal for a counter deck.
The Locust God
Doesn't work the same as the others, but since I added Keranos I thought I'd add him. Okay I will get this out of my system: the most fun, thematically amazing card ever! Creating loads of bugs, the way he bounces back to your hand (not as useful in commander but can still save you mana in the recast) it's just so fun and so original too - locusts! Thematically I just love him, even the artwork is awesome.* However... as a commander he doesn't control the boardstate the same way the others do. No draw or damage is built in. (Okay sort of draw, at 4cmc to draw and discard.) At 6cmc too... I just really think he is too expensive for what he is. He could be 5cmc and I don't think anyone would have blinked. Just my opinion, I just love this card but think he probably is the weakest of the lot. I was just on edhrec and was surprised to find him so popular? Maybe my issue is playing him like the others instead of his own unique self. But I would argue doesn't play to izzets strengths. I'd love to hear from you if you're a devotee.
* Hour of Devastation, not Amonkhet Invocations