So i'll be working on getting some more cards for this deck and working on a new list. I'm not the most sure about jhessian infiltrator. and i refuse to play river boa. how much damage do you usually get in with an infiltrator before they go oh... um terminate? to it?
Usually.. zero..
Vedalken Outlander anybody? At least it can't die to bolt, terminate, or bit blast.
I've been testing this build for a while today and it's done pretty amazing against Jund and Boros. It lost to goblins because of all the burn, despite my sideboard attempts (didn't really draw much anyway).
In testing against a pro tour player who runs Jund I've found that this deck gets rolled pretty much 80% of the time. All their spells 2 for 1 us.
That's why I'm trying the slower Bant build with all shroud dudes or regen dudes, with Negate + Bant Charm to counter things, and the 5/5 Sphinx as a finisher.
Wall of Denial is pure crap in Bant... especially if you want to call it aggro.
You don't have enough creatures.
Too many lands.
You sound like a weak control deck without Day of Judgement.
For the rest, Hierarch if better than Rampanth Growth.
My metagame is basically 100% Jund Cascade right now. The last top 8 was 4 Jund mirror matches.
* Stag still dies to bolt, so not so hot.
* Wall stalls Leach and just about anything else Jund runs, even Broodmates
* I don't need to calls it Aggro, but it is Bant, and I don't see a thread for a slower Bant built like this.
* I want less creatures and more removal. I need to keep the board clear and keep myself alive, especially in ways that make the Thrinax not sprout.
* DoJ is bad when all my shroud dudes can't be removed except by my own mass removal. I'd have to fit in Dauntless Escorts in another slot if I want to even consider it.
* Hierarch just gives them a target for all their removal, Rampant lets me thin and get up to the 6 I need for my finisher. Harrow might be better here.
* The Sphinx is the ENTIRE point of the deck. It has shroud, and will get in there for the win. Windstorm is also sided in against Jund to clear out the 4/4 fliers while leaving mine alive. Windstorm also kills Malakir Bloodwitch. I can just path or bant charm Baneslayer.
* Card draw might be good in this deck.
Agree - Lacerator and Gravelord are bad mid-late game cards, and generally not worth running unless you're going for a super-aggro fast build without 4-5 drops. Sign in blood is generally much better.
I just got done playing this build at the local place that runs their FNMs on Thursdays and did pretty bad. The only run 3 rounds, no matter that 22 people were playing, but it went like this:
Match 1 - Against Grixis creatureless pyromancer ascension/cruel ultimatum. Bounce/killed all my creatures, no matter how fast I played them. I had turn 2 Bloodghast and couldn't get any damage thru. He had turn 2 ascension and got it online, Cruel Ultimatumed me for lose 10 life, discard 6 cards. Game two I got a lot of swings in, he was down to 4, but he got ascension out and just banefired me for double 6 twice. Lost 0-2. Would have been nice to see a Sludge. Need the other two in my side. Should have been an easy win I think, if I hit a sludge.
Match 2 - Against monowhite soldiers. He pathed my turn 2 bloodghast, leading to a turn 4 sludge when all he had out was 3 plains and a 2/1 dude. I sided in Black Knights for game 2, but I think that was just overkill. Won 2-0.
Match 3 - Against monoblack fast aggro vampires (with Lacerator, Guul Draz Vampire, Gatekeeper, and Blade of the Bloodchief). I drew literally nothing but land both games and my 2 creatures from my opening hand didn't outpace his gatekeepers and 9/9 Guul Draz. Lost 0-2. Guess I would have stood a chance without the land flood, and if I drew any removal any of those games. Guess you should mulligan 5 land and 2 creatures.
I'm not sold on the build, and I still have mine together as mono-black, but I'm not 100% sold that Tendrils of Corruption and Mind Sludge are the absolutely best cards you can pair with Vampires. Obviously if you pick those, you are forced into mono-black though.
What do people think about a blue splash? Ponder can really help with Nucturnus, and the rest of the spells are still black when on top. Agony Warp can easily let you 2-for-1, the Borderpost is black for Nocturnus, and Soul Manipulation is a great turn-around.
What about a black/red deck where all land still produces black (no mountains) and all red spells are still black for Nucturnus. You'd basically be turning Sludge into Blightning (2 mana cheaper, add in some damage, little bit less discard if they have a ton of cards) and Tendrils into Terminate (half the cost, destroy any toughness, but no life gain). This seems like it would make the deck faster, without hurting any of the other cards. The tapped land shouldn't matter as I don't run Lacerator and I have extra mana here and there on turns sometimes anyway in a monoblack build in my testing.
This (minus the 1-ofs) was card-for-card what I just went 4-2 with at my local FNM. There was quite a lot of Brave the Elements and other mono-white red-hate at my FNM, making this kind of red deck nearly impossible to play again.
I sure hope there is more to upcoming FNMs than Jund vs Jund though.
Mine's a little messed up too. It says it has sent me 2 token sets but used up 12 token set points. Unless they've upped the amount of points needed to get a token set, it looks they screwed up on more than a few people.
I don't think they screwed anybody over at all. People just don't seem to understand their extremely lagged and convoluted system of sending the rewards cards out. I can just about assure you that they only actually used up 10 token points if they sent you 2 sets of cards. If it says 12 under Batch 27 that means you had 12 points at the point in time when they calculated the batch. You will have at least 2 points left over listed above Batch 27 under Current. Plus any additional points you earned since 2 months ago will be added to those 2 points that were left over.
So what exactly am I getting? It looks like I have enough pts for 2 bolts but they only sent me 1?
That would be correct. You already appear to have enough foil points for your 2nd bolt, but that will come with the next mailing (which is probably going to be just before the Worldwake pre-release).
Two months ago or so, when they batched out batch #27, you were not yet at 40 foil points. So they only are using up 20 points and sending you 1 bolt, even though you hit 40 foil points by the time the 1 bolt was sent out.
Then...... I only got lightning bolt, cancel, mana tithe?! I think I got screwed.
My DCI page says 1 foil and 2 token sets sent. Are they counting cancel and mana tithe as a set each?
You sure that's right? Has it updated to show Batch #27 yet?
A few days ago, mine had my current Current TokenSet Points at 23 and only listed up to Batch #26. The day *after* I actually received the cards in the mail, Batch #27 appears in my DCI login with Current TokenSet Points listed as 13, and my current Current TokenSet Points now at 12. Batch #27 is listed as being mailed on 2009-09-23 even though I received the cards on 2009-09-22. However, to have it list 13 points for 2009-09-23 means the process was actually started by looking at my data from around 2009-07-23.
What I'm saying is there seems to be QUITE a bit of lag between when your token points show up for the tournaments you play in and when they are actually used in the mailings. Looking at my stats a few days ago, I would have expected 4 token sets (8 total textless cards, plus 1 foil bolt). I only got 2 token sets in the mail (4 cards, corresponds with the 13 points listed) and the 1 foil bolt.
Usually.. zero..
Vedalken Outlander anybody? At least it can't die to bolt, terminate, or bit blast.
10 Island
7 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
Draw
4 Howling Mine
2 Font of Mythos
3 Jace Beleren
Win
4 Runeflare Trap
2 Trapmaker's Snare
2 Twincast
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Pyroclasm
4 Into the Roil
3 Call to Heel
3 Whiplash Trap
4 Quest for Ancient Secrets
4 Flashfreeze
4 Double Negative
3 Swerve
I've been testing this build for a while today and it's done pretty amazing against Jund and Boros. It lost to goblins because of all the burn, despite my sideboard attempts (didn't really draw much anyway).
That's why I'm trying the slower Bant build with all shroud dudes or regen dudes, with Negate + Bant Charm to counter things, and the 5/5 Sphinx as a finisher.
My metagame is basically 100% Jund Cascade right now. The last top 8 was 4 Jund mirror matches.
* Stag still dies to bolt, so not so hot.
* Wall stalls Leach and just about anything else Jund runs, even Broodmates
* I don't need to calls it Aggro, but it is Bant, and I don't see a thread for a slower Bant built like this.
* I want less creatures and more removal. I need to keep the board clear and keep myself alive, especially in ways that make the Thrinax not sprout.
* DoJ is bad when all my shroud dudes can't be removed except by my own mass removal. I'd have to fit in Dauntless Escorts in another slot if I want to even consider it.
* Hierarch just gives them a target for all their removal, Rampant lets me thin and get up to the 6 I need for my finisher. Harrow might be better here.
* The Sphinx is the ENTIRE point of the deck. It has shroud, and will get in there for the win. Windstorm is also sided in against Jund to clear out the 4/4 fliers while leaving mine alive. Windstorm also kills Malakir Bloodwitch. I can just path or bant charm Baneslayer.
* Card draw might be good in this deck.
6 Forest
3 Island
3 Plains
4 Seaside Citadel
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Hindering Light
Ramp (7)
4 Rampant Growth
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 River Boa
4 Deft Duelist
4 Wall of Denial
3 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Removal (10)
4 Path to Exile
2 Pitfall Trap
4 Bant Charm
3 Qasali Pridemage - kill ascensions
3 Negate - for fog/ascension decks where hindering light is useless
3 Celestial Purge - better than path against thrinax
3 Windstorm - for broodmate, bloodwitch, maybe baneslayer
1 Kalonian Behemoth - transform to these 3 mess up hemorrhage
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Inkwell Leviathan
I don't know if this quite fits bant "aggro" but I'm making this shroud-based Bant deck as a Jund-hoser. Thoughts?
16 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
Spells (14)
4 Disfigure
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Sign in Blood
2 Mind Sludge
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Bloodghast
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Vampire Nocturnus
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Duress
3 Deathmark
3 Marsh Casualties
3 Black Knight
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Malakir Bloodwitch
I just got done playing this build at the local place that runs their FNMs on Thursdays and did pretty bad. The only run 3 rounds, no matter that 22 people were playing, but it went like this:
Match 1 - Against Grixis creatureless pyromancer ascension/cruel ultimatum. Bounce/killed all my creatures, no matter how fast I played them. I had turn 2 Bloodghast and couldn't get any damage thru. He had turn 2 ascension and got it online, Cruel Ultimatumed me for lose 10 life, discard 6 cards. Game two I got a lot of swings in, he was down to 4, but he got ascension out and just banefired me for double 6 twice. Lost 0-2. Would have been nice to see a Sludge. Need the other two in my side. Should have been an easy win I think, if I hit a sludge.
Match 2 - Against monowhite soldiers. He pathed my turn 2 bloodghast, leading to a turn 4 sludge when all he had out was 3 plains and a 2/1 dude. I sided in Black Knights for game 2, but I think that was just overkill. Won 2-0.
Match 3 - Against monoblack fast aggro vampires (with Lacerator, Guul Draz Vampire, Gatekeeper, and Blade of the Bloodchief). I drew literally nothing but land both games and my 2 creatures from my opening hand didn't outpace his gatekeepers and 9/9 Guul Draz. Lost 0-2. Guess I would have stood a chance without the land flood, and if I drew any removal any of those games. Guess you should mulligan 5 land and 2 creatures.
Soul Manipulation or Gatekeeper of Malakir.
I'm not sold on the build, and I still have mine together as mono-black, but I'm not 100% sold that Tendrils of Corruption and Mind Sludge are the absolutely best cards you can pair with Vampires. Obviously if you pick those, you are forced into mono-black though.
9 Swamp
4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Jwar Isle Refuge
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Mistvein Borderpost
Spells (16)
4 Ponder
4 Disfigure
4 Agony Warp
4 Soul Manipulation
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Bloodghast
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Vampire Nocturnus
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Duress
4 Deathmark
4 Marsh Casualties
1 Vampire Hexmage
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
What do people think about a blue splash? Ponder can really help with Nucturnus, and the rest of the spells are still black when on top. Agony Warp can easily let you 2-for-1, the Borderpost is black for Nocturnus, and Soul Manipulation is a great turn-around.
8 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Akoum Refuge
4 Dragonskull Summit
Spells
4 Disfigure
4 Terminate
3 Sign in Blood
3 Blightning
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Bloodghast
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Vampire Nocturnus
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Duress
4 Deathmark
3 Marsh Casualties
1 Vampire Hexmage
3 Black Knight
What about a black/red deck where all land still produces black (no mountains) and all red spells are still black for Nucturnus. You'd basically be turning Sludge into Blightning (2 mana cheaper, add in some damage, little bit less discard if they have a ton of cards) and Tendrils into Terminate (half the cost, destroy any toughness, but no life gain). This seems like it would make the deck faster, without hurting any of the other cards. The tapped land shouldn't matter as I don't run Lacerator and I have extra mana here and there on turns sometimes anyway in a monoblack build in my testing.
This (minus the 1-ofs) was card-for-card what I just went 4-2 with at my local FNM. There was quite a lot of Brave the Elements and other mono-white red-hate at my FNM, making this kind of red deck nearly impossible to play again.
I sure hope there is more to upcoming FNMs than Jund vs Jund though.
I don't think they screwed anybody over at all. People just don't seem to understand their extremely lagged and convoluted system of sending the rewards cards out. I can just about assure you that they only actually used up 10 token points if they sent you 2 sets of cards. If it says 12 under Batch 27 that means you had 12 points at the point in time when they calculated the batch. You will have at least 2 points left over listed above Batch 27 under Current. Plus any additional points you earned since 2 months ago will be added to those 2 points that were left over.
That would be correct. You already appear to have enough foil points for your 2nd bolt, but that will come with the next mailing (which is probably going to be just before the Worldwake pre-release).
Two months ago or so, when they batched out batch #27, you were not yet at 40 foil points. So they only are using up 20 points and sending you 1 bolt, even though you hit 40 foil points by the time the 1 bolt was sent out.
You sure that's right? Has it updated to show Batch #27 yet?
A few days ago, mine had my current Current TokenSet Points at 23 and only listed up to Batch #26. The day *after* I actually received the cards in the mail, Batch #27 appears in my DCI login with Current TokenSet Points listed as 13, and my current Current TokenSet Points now at 12. Batch #27 is listed as being mailed on 2009-09-23 even though I received the cards on 2009-09-22. However, to have it list 13 points for 2009-09-23 means the process was actually started by looking at my data from around 2009-07-23.
What I'm saying is there seems to be QUITE a bit of lag between when your token points show up for the tournaments you play in and when they are actually used in the mailings. Looking at my stats a few days ago, I would have expected 4 token sets (8 total textless cards, plus 1 foil bolt). I only got 2 token sets in the mail (4 cards, corresponds with the 13 points listed) and the 1 foil bolt.