Haven't checked in for a while, wanted to report that I managed to Top 8 the Saturday PTQ at Magicfest Columbus this weekend (punted my game 2 in the semis after being up a game against a good matchup).
I've been testing the Simic Deck, played a bunch of the Jeskai Outcome when that was hot (super cold on it now), had some mild success with Esper Urza Gifts, but came full circle to this after having a dismal weekend at the SCGcon the weekend prior.
I liked how the meta seemed like it was soft to the ThopterSword combo again and wanted to be pretty heavy on the combo plan. I was also pretty set on playing whir with bullets this weekend as well and tried various shells that moved some things around to accommodate more cantrips/Thoughtcast, some number of Emry, Karn main, etc. Wurmcoil is spicy and sometimes not feasible to cast, but I needed a true match breaker vs popular fair decks like Jund/DS variants, and between Veil over Thoughtseize and a Wurm I could tutor for, I felt like it was worth rolling the dice on. Also not a huge fan of Witchbane but wasn't positive how many Valakut decks would be here and since we're back on Whir, I didn't hate this (especially since I also expected a bunch of Burn). I will note that it was really nice to make a straight swap for the 2x Karn for 1/1 Foundry/Sword in the matchups where you want Karn to come in and are simultaneously inclined to trim the combo a bit anyway. Also, I sometimes wished I had access to 2x Bridge in the 75, but knew I wanted the first in the maindeck, as so many decks for this weekend's meta fold to a resolved bridge in game 1 (another reason I wanted to be back on the whir plan).
All-in-all, I played this shell (about 3-4 of the slots varied between events) but went 4-2 in the first PTQ, then 5-1 in the swiss of the second PTQ, losing in the top 4 (we won't talk about my early exit from the main event after coming off of 2 byes lol). And yes, 3x Mox was intentional, not a budget choice. while it's one of the strongest cards in the deck, I wanted to try Witching Well again as a 1-of and mitigate the number of hands where I draw double mox but can't get to metalcraft smoothly enough. Not saying only 3x was correct, but I was content with this last minute cut before the event started.
After settling on some numbers I liked, here's what I played:
R1 (2-0) GDS: I was playing 2 Oko after seeing Eli Kassis go down to 2 main last weekend, but the Friday PTQ reps convinced me that I wanted another, so why not play the 3rd in the main again? I just won with ThopterSword both games, the second game won via Oko to Elk Plague Engineer
R2 (2-1) Skred: My opponent got on the board quickly with Karnstructs/P&K before I could close the game. Game 2 was also grindy but I manage to go infinite. There were 7 mins left in the round but my opponent signed the slip in my favor after game 2 (guess he forgot I only won 1 game?!)
R3 (1-2) Bant Soulherder: G1 My opponent plays Flooded Strand and I follow by resolving Needle on Strand before he cracks (confirmed it resolved but thought he cold respond after the name - didn't realize how that worked lol). But he got the better of me through e-wit/ephemerate/KoA loops in games 2-3
R4 (2-0) Amulet Titan: G1 opponent curves Amulet into Pact-Azusa and ends the turn with double Simic Growth Chambers. I simply played a turn 2 Damping sphere lol. Game 2 I'm able to race and go infinite before he finds a way to win.
R5 (2-1) Naya Zoo: In Game 3 I get to ThopterSword and pass the turn with only 1 Thopter. Assuming my opponent could have multiple pieces of interaction in hand, I allow him to go to combat and Whir for 6 (getting Wurm) instead of making a few thopters then trying to whir for 6 (1 bolt with a sword trigger on the stack would have stopped me from this line). Sure enough he has double bolt but forgets I have a jar to save Wurm.
R6 (2-0) E-Tron: I land a T2 Foundry and my opponent's T3 TKS sees Foundry, double Sword, double Urza. I hit runner-runner land like a boss and go off. G2 opponent's start is Tower/Map into Mine pass. I land T2 Damp Sphere to force him to grab Blast Zone off map. I then rip Needle off the top and name Blast Zone, followed by an Ego on Karn GC, then Whir for Bridge. He runs out of gas and I eventually go infinite and lock 1st seed after swiss.
Qtr Final (2-0) Jund: G1 I win via thopters without sword at 1 life. G2 I manage to get to a turn with Urza + Karn, uptick to make a chump blocker. The following turn I downtick Karn and slam Wurmcoil. The turn after that I draw Whir, downtick Karn for Sword first (important), then whir for foundry.
Semi Final (1-2) Temur Snow(Moon): G1 is close but I close with a ton of thopters in the air. G2 not sure if it was mental fatigue or what, but I have Urza/Foundry/Whir in hand and I go for Urza instead of hold up EOT Whir to play around interaction/clog up my opponent's mana. Sure enough he had a counter, and my following lines weren't as optimal as they could have been. I let it slip after I stabilize as he topdecks Royal Scions and Ouphe. I definitely could have played this game a bit better. Game 3 I get punished as his hand is nuts with a T2 Oko (which I lock with Needle) but I get a bit mana screwed and get knocked out of the tournament (had I won, I would have been on the play against burn in the finals...)
My finish was strong, but it sorta hurts knowing I came so close to getting back on the PT circuit, but missing at the hands of uncharacteristically taking a suboptimal line in my turn 4 of the Semis against a good matchup. Still had a ton of fun, will be ready for the next one I suppose!
Has anybody been testing Executioner's Capsule again with Sai + Goblin Engineer being a maindeck package? I know the 'non-black' clause misses a decent amount of things, but it seems promising.
Also, what's the verdict on Spine in the main vs side vs none at all? I still can't decide for myself looking at the pros and cons from each side.
Just wanted to chime in and mention that I had tested/settled on the white splash over a green splash ahead of the SCG Invitational (mostly for little teferi) and was decent in testing, but largely contributed to my match losses in 2 of my modern matches/locked me out of day 2. I switched back to sultai for the MCQ this weekend in DC (with some minor tweaks) and just missed being live for top 8 (G3 against red Phoenix: T2 sword into T3 whir for foundry with Urza in hand, missed 4th land, got blown out b/c he had 4th land AND 1-of Shatterstorm the following turn).
Been toying with a lot of things recently but haven't had a chance to do much testing on the URx shells floating around lately. Might have to give it a shot here soon, but wanted to note that I agree that white doesn't seem to outweigh the other secondary/tertiary color options out there for this archetype (at the moment at least).
While I'm on the topic, I'm used to playing a 4-3-2 Split of Bauble/Mox/Jar and a 2-1 Split of Nihil/Cage. Since the meta shift from more "shatter effects" and less "Stony", I wanted to switch 4th Bauble to 3rd Jar (since in most instances, they're all just glorified Moxen to turbo out a Whir on Turn 3). I also moved second maindeck Nihil to Tormod since I've been testing the 2x Tolaria (I also agree that maybe 3rd is fine, but I def don't want 4th). I'm happy with just 2x though, having too many mono blue sources that come in tapped before I hit my 3rd land drop can cause foreseeable issues. I could have trimmed a second Azcanta for another 0-drop (closer to the recent Dom Harvey/Zan versions of Whir), but I decided against it as a hedge against GDS and other blue decks specifically. Plus I feel Azcanta does a better job filling the void left by trimming all my Serum Visions which I've grown fond of.
Alternatively, I view the final Bauble/Mox slots competing with any 1-for-1 trade slots, as both play similar roles (the 0-s turbo out top-end spells/help get hellbent behind bridge to lock combat against creatures, pushes occupy excess open mana in the early turns to stem bleeding/buy time against said creatures). I just personally went back to push as it unlocks Humans' locks against you (a meta trend I noticed/prepared for) and deals with any opposing G1 Scooze I might have to face down (got the meta call right, occurred twice for me this weekend). It's almost never truly a dead G1 spell and the uptick in Azcanta meant that I'd likely have control of milling it over before I drew it if need be.
Yeah spot on analysis - while blood moon can be pesky, it's largely non-existent right now (even if ur Phoenix players have it in the board, I've seen a split of people bringing it in vs not against me). The swamp over another island is there primarily for when you need a fast black source off a fetch for push without having to shock against aggro decks (as well as needing double black for 2x LOTV postboard). Also, cutting breeding pool for another gold land actually trims your access to green by the shock itself plus however many fetchlands, it's not actually a 1-for-1 trade. I tried playing a gold land mana base when the tertiary color was more prominent (jeskai build), but since I've been on Azcanta, the fetches have added value.
I keep going between 3-4 mox and I like it a lot less in deck that play more spells vs artifacts. It's also a concession to the way my postboard configs look when the alt wincons/spells come in. It was a flex spot for sure for this 75, especially since the 21st land came back in my list. Keeping/cutting 4th mox has its merits on both sides of the argument. I myself have never felt the need to keep it (especially since pressure for getting chalice on board for 2 mana is much different than the pressures of getting any of our 2-drops online by turn 1).
Btw, I've continued to test a bunch of different shells/theories (builds with Chalice main/side, 3-4x Chalice vs Zan's 1x Chalice in the board, Cantrips vs no Cantrips, Cutting black to go Jeskai (even played Saheeli/Felidar postboard), Sultai/Esper vs straight UB, etc.), some of which were things I had previously established I preferred but just wanted to revisit to ensure I wasn't tunnel visioned into in a theory that could have changed based on an evolved meta (mainly the Serum Visions/Green Spell slots and re-testing EE which I've previously disliked alongside ThopterSword).
After some careful considerations, I took this list for a spin at an FNM (4-0 beating Tron of all things in the final round), cut the singleton Chalice in my board from Friday for another alt-wincon slot, and went undefeated at an IQ this weekend. Here's the list:
Some recent changes were cutting the cantrips (which historically I have not liked doing but mitigated the need for them by lowering my curve, playing more artifacts, playing 21st land again, and playing 2 Azcanta to play the role Serum provides mid-late game/providing mana later on), testing EE again in place of 3rd Push (I had only recently reintroduced push again since humans has been creeping back up), and the Tolaria/Inventor's Fair package to go along with that. Here's the report:
R1: 2-1
TRON
Got paired against one of the guys I came with and I was anything but thrilled at first.
G1: Double Needle (O-Stone, Karn) into Whir for Sphere, bought me enough time to get Time Sieve lock online.
G2: Close game but ended up losing to beats without a bridge
G3: LOTV into Tez beat downs closed the game.
R2: 2-1
GB Rock
G1: Had to keep an ok hand with a good ratio of spells to lands (knew what he was on before game 1 so I didn't want to mulligan even a suboptimal hand). Unfortunately got flooded with land draws.
G2-3: Early Jar (or two) into turn 3 Bridge to lock both wins.
R3: 2-0
Bant Knightfall
G1: Locked combat with bridge, eventually killed with Thopters
G2: Bridge into Torpor Orb
R4: 1-1-1
The Rack
G1: Tight lines lead me to whir for EE (for 0), break it, Ruins to put it back on top, cast it for 1 (but not enough mana open at this point to activate), and unfortunately died to a Mutavault hit plus second Affliction
G2: Got to Time Sieve Lock the turn before I would have died
G3: Was behind most of the game, but went to turns and just had to fade a funeral charm off the top (which would have pumped his Mutavault for the kill on Turn 5)
R5: 2-0
4-C Whir (Cloyle's most recent 5-0 list, noticed from the sideboard numbers during game 2 when I cast an Ego)
Note: We played a "Foiled Whir Mirror" lol
G1: He gets to Jar/Chalices then Bridge/Cloister, but doesn't see a Spyglass. I manage to get the Time Sieve lock on him, then proceed to get EE/Academy Ruins, blow up his jars, then his Chalice, then find a 3rd color source to blow up the bridge.
G2: Despite all the recent exposure/articles written about both base-versions of the Whir decks, nobody seems to want to address the approach to the mirrors. I've been working on a postboard gameplan that doesn't interfere with my postboard plans against the rest of the field (which is more important), and it really shined for me here.
My opponent came out the gates with double Spyglass (first naming Thopter Foundry when he saw I had Foundry/Sword/Whir in hand, the second naming EE). I got an Ego to strip the remaining 2x Spyglasses from his deck and wrote down the remaining avenues to victory left for my opponent. I also had a live Azcanta, which really gave me the advantage to lock the rest of the game. With it, I am able to find a Needle (name Jester's Cap), Whir (find Witchbane Orb to stop Ipnu and Tez Ult - his list didn't have Grid and he didn't bring in Sai), and then another Ego (strip Academy Ruins) into another needle for Tez (prevent 5/5 beats). We draw-go forever but I know I have him locked. Azcanta then finds LOTV and Ashiok which eventually get locked by Witchbane, but I didn't worry about prioritizing Witchbane with second Ego cuz I was already up a game, knew he had no ways to win once I lock Tez with the Needle, and stripping his ruins with Ego rather than a Spyglass/Needle meant that I could not get decked, but he now could. Once he realized it was over, he extended the hand.
R6: ID
-- TOP 8 --
We all decide to split the prize money evenly and just play for the invites.
Qtrs: Affinity
My opponent doesn't care about the invite, but wants to see how things play out for fun. I land T2 Foundry into T3 Whir for Sword. He saw enough and didn't want to play games 2-3.
Semis: Amulet Titan
My opponent tells me congrats cuz she already is queued and just wants to go home lol
Finals: Dropped
I would have liked to play for 1st place/bragging rights, but I was 2 hours away, the tournament started later than I'm used to, plus my friend (who I was holding hostage) and I both worked early the next day, so I was more than happy to just dip after my semi-opponent signed the slip. There was no extra money in it plus I got what I came for - the invite.
As always, I just want to note that my 75 isn't nearly as locked in as the 4-c Whir Prison's list (at least they seem to have settled on about 72 of the slots right now) and am constantly moving stuff around. I do still really like Serum Vision's impact on mulligan implications (and being able to keep 1-land hands, which I tend to almost never keep without Serum), however having the 2x Azcanta to fill a similar role when you're running out of gas in the mid-late game was pretty nice. It's also been a really nice "threat" to have against GBx/GDS as another impactful turn 2 play that you can squeeze in around their hand disruption. Again, not some revolutionary slot I think everyone MUST try, but the role it's been playing for me in tandem with the adjustments I've made have been pretty positive overall.
This just scratches the surface to how I came to a lot of the numbers I settled on, but let me know if you have any questions and hopefully I'll reply in a timely manner!
1) Surgical Extraction, like all 1-shot GY hate cards, can be played around. You simply need to hold up mana an extra mana for each 1-shot you think/know they have and sac another artifact with the spell/ability on the stack. It's a good practice to periodically go over recent lists of the most popular archetypes of the format (or at least the ones you think you're more likely to face) to know how likely you should be thinking of playing around maindeck Surgical.
2) I've tested Tez in the maindeck again recently and while it's not bad, it's not entirely necessary either. A lot of decks fold to bridge game 1 and jeopardizing the ability to dump your hand to a low enough count is a risk that isn't absolutely necessary to take. Sure we have Bottled Cloister, but Bridge+Cloister is probably winning the game at that point anyway. Maindeck Tez is fine (I saw someone do it this weekend), especially if you want to make room for something in the sideboard. I just don't think it's absolutely necessary.
@the_nobodys I had the same thought initially, however I still believe it's worse than something like Negate, as the reason we've been recently considering counterspells at all was because of the 1-shot blowouts that cantripping decks like GDS/Phoenix have with Hurkyl's/Shatterstorm respectively (other applications are just upside). Still certainly worth considering, though notably only hits one of the two biggest reasons to play countermagic in the first place.
I'm still interested in the potential of new Teferi as you mentioned previously. I've been developing another Jeskai shell recently (with a spicy postboard gameplan that ignores vs Stony/RIP/Artifact Hate) and he looks like something I'd be interested in testing in the 75.
Hi all! I was wondering if there's anyone willing to discuss some general Sideboard strategies, I m not speaking of ''MU: X IN: Y OUT: Z'', I m referring of general automatism when sideboarding, like how to face Stony silence decks and stuffs. I ll try to make order with a bunch of points:
6) Do you play any counterspell to avoid shatterstorm and stuffs?
I personally have my own replies to those questions but I d like to know other players' thoughts!
Sorry I'm a bit late to the party here! So I've been utilizing/updating a double sided cheat sheet (fits around a card in a clear sleeve cuz I like being compact/efficient like that lol) that is my sideboard guide for the 30-ish most popular decks of the format in a given point of the meta. Rather than showing true ins/outs, I lay out the most common things that matter postboard (ie. the probability of seeing universal stuff like surgical/EE, prioritizing Needle/Ego targets, which red/green spells they could have, etc). That being said, I've been testing a lot of different things beyond what I previously mentioned I've been trying, here's where I currently stand in regards to your questions:
I think ignoring Stony/RIP is totally reasonable, as they'll statistically have more "questions" to your "answers" (as Trav noted). Trying to circumvent their hate with a higher density of things like Sai/Walkers is fine, however I personally still think I'm going to be playing 2x Decay as the alt-wincons alone weren't quite doing it for me (I just like the role it plays across the meta). I also find that a combination of Tez sifting through 5x cards off the top (assuming 1 isn't Decay lol) plus Cloister/Azcanta (still keep trying different shells with/without it) can help you find the decay you need to unlock the board. Also, against a deck like UW control, you often only need 1 good turn with the combo unlocked to create a winning boardstate so if you are able to unlock their only enchantment on board, you're probably in the clear. But I get not playing it - it puts a lot of pressure on said green spells. I just like them when you also need creature interaction as well for other matchups.
I cut all the Mox against any matchup where topdeck equity matters more than speed (grindy matchups like control, midrange). Typically this also overlaps with decks playing Stony Silence (which are fewer in numbers these days). I'll only cut Bauble if the 75 config I'm currently on can't afford to cut any other card but needs to make room for an additional sideboard card to come in (pretty rare).
Inversely, if you're playing some number of Cantrips like Serum Visions, I'll typically cut these when Speed matters (Mox is good).
While you need to construct a solid preboard 60, I think it's wise to build/assess these lists as a whole 75. For example, sometimes I'll play an alt wincon in the main (did for the first time in almost 8 months), so I was able to free up a sideboard slot knowing I still maintained the baseline density of alt wincons overall (I assess overall GY hate, Needle effects, removal, etc. this way as well). I like to go no lower than 5-6x alt wincons if I can help it, but I consider Bottled Cloister and Search for Azcanta in the same vein as planeswalkers, as they're threats that generate card advantage/help progress towards winning/unlocking an opposing boardstate by finding other pieces. It's worth noting that I like to keep the number of alt wincons that can pressure Combo/Tron decks at around 3 if possible (these being things like Tez/LOTV/previously Herald of Anguish over more things like Sai/Grid). I would absolutely never go below 2 unless I had a very good reason to (can't imagine what that'd be right now).
Like most surgical effects, they are best when the first Ego resolved drastically cripples the opposing gameplan. The more targets you need to hit, the worse this card becomes when you bring it in. Since it's a 3-mana play, ask yourself "how likely am I to lose if I tap out on turn 3/go down a card and strip them of only 1 line of attack?". These days, combo decks like Storm/Ad Nauseum have 2x solid parallel lines of attack and can quickly adjust to "plan B" playing out the same lines (Storm: grapeshot vs empty, Ad Naus: Ad Naus vs Spoils, Ltg Storm vs Lab Man, Grace vs Unlife). The fact that they don't really have to adjust (ie. still play the cantrips/rituals/Pieces/just gifts for whatever you don't name) is what really makes it hard. You're still going to bring them in, but it isn't quite as detrimental as taking out Valakut from TitanShift or Titan from AmuletTitan (they usually need to adjust to their plan B, which buys you some time). Basically it comes down to knowing how to prioritize the targets and whether the time the first resolved Ego buys you generates enough value towards a clear path to victory.
I know some are more skeptical on Ego vs UW control (not Jeskai, mind you), but Ego is very good here, as their paths to victory revolve around Teferi/JTMS (name in that order typically), then creature beatdown. The 1 (2 if you have to) bridge you keep in can stop that, and each needle now has less pressure from opposing DSphere/Cryptics unlocking them. The deck relies so heavily on the 2x planeswalkers they play that Needle effects shut down the few paths to victory they have, and Egos are essentially Needles that they don't have answers for once they resolve.
I know some like bringing in Ego against decks with Shatterstorm, but I'm not the biggest fan. I've been trying it begrudgingly but sometimes you just die anyway if you had to make room for some number of Egos by reducing your artifact count/locking out Whir lines that can't get to bridge/protection for bridge in a timely manner.
Sounds like you tried the Mentor tech I mentioned previously. I'm off it for the same reasons I'm off Sai - I'm not a huge fan of cards that have diminishing values as the game goes on/you're low in triggers. It's counterintuitive to the main gameplan which is deploy your hand to set up whir lines/bridge setup (vs having to sandbag your spells/delay board progression to maximize triggers), especially in a deck that aims to be a hellbent + impactful topdeck strategy (I'd rather just attack from two different angles that promote the same proactive lines of play). I get that you can adjust if your opener has Sai instead of something like bridge and I did like how the games played out when I had Sai/Mentor online by turn 3, but I'm not the biggest advocate of the approach, especially considering that very few of our artifacts replace themselves like KCi had (though Sai does have the neat value interaction with two swords). I've been focusing on looking for impactful 2-drops to combat GDS better (overload their early hand disruption to get an impactful spell online asap), and since I've been testing Azcanta with this in mind, I've liked its postboard synergy being able to find my other alt wincons (despite Sai/Mentor getting around Stub, which is appealing for sure). Still testing some stuff, recently been trying Chalice as mentioned previously, as well as stuff like Bitterblossom and Ashiok again.
I've been trying to find a 75 config that can accommodate a postboard Chalice gameplan (no less than 3x, don't want to rely on Tolaria West as "extra copies", as I want to see this consistently before turns 3-4). I like Swan Song's efficiency and Muddle's added Transmute value, but I've been having a lot of success testing Metallic Rebuke, as it gets around Chalice on 1-2. Sure an opponent can pay 3 to neutralize the effect, but think about the way it actually lines up against decks like GDS/Phoenix: Both play a lot of efficient spells/cantrips and will aim to use their mana as efficiently as possible. Because of this, they also have a lower density of mana sources and will likely plateu at around 3-5 for the majority of the impactful turns where you're hopefully developing a juicy boardstate that warrants an answer. With these things in mind, Metallic Rebuke sets up the perfect trap (tempo play) to catch them off guard on the turns where it truly matters most (mid game going late, around turns 4-6), as phoenix will likely not have 7 mana for a Shatterstorm, especially if they need to pay mana for cantrips to dig towards finding it in a pinch. Same goes for GDS - while Hurkyl's is only 2-mana, they're usually on even less mana during these stages of the game. Also unlike Mana Leak from UWx control, I guarantee most of your opponents will not be playing around it unless they already know you have it.
Sure they could have hand disruption/a 1-mana counterspell, but that arguement is moot since you're going to lose no matter what X-spell would be in your hand (Swan Song/Muddle/Negate).
I'm not the biggest fan of countermagic in Bridge decks (I only play 1 rebuke right now), but it's a great tempo play and you're usually happy to snap it off early if the rest of your hand looks promising and the opponent plays something juicy with shields down (like a T2 angler, Pyro Ascension, etc).
@FullMetalTezzeret Yeah you're absolutely right, which is precisely why I mentioned liked Chalice as a strategy for the sideboard (in general, not in regards to blue decks) - I'd personally rather maintain my edge against Cryptic/other fair decks with ThopterSword rather than Chalice main (and the meta implications that go along with that decision). Sorry if my last post was a bit confusing in that regard, I laid out the matchups where I like Chalice for games 2-3.
My point was that I have yet to discover/see a compelling list that has a 3-4 split of the combo co-existing with the full 3-4 Chalice of the Voids in the maindeck, as we already have so many 2-mana plays and IMO they promote 2 conflicting gameplans aiming to be developed (ie, either prioritize the combo or the 4-c Whir prison gameplan for game 1). They both can certainly co-exist against some strategies, but I don't feel having both maindeck is a good idea for the vast majority of preboard configurations you'll face across all game 1's. Outside of some matchups like GDS and Phoenix (albeit popular ones), Chalice is typically good when the combo isn't and vice versa, so forcing a high number of both in at the same time sorta dilutes the overall focus and execution of your game 1 strategy. Curve consideration as well as preboard gameplan development definitely matters in these regards and I'd rather implement a more focused strategy and "pick a lane" for consistency sake.
Again, Foundry lines provide redundant Bridge effects that lock the board and can close games faster, whereas Chalice fills the same slots but aim to both protect the crucial lock piece (Bridge) and invalidate other pieces of the opposing deck. Baseline: one avenue aims to reduce turns (provides inevitability vs fair decks), the other aims to reduce opposing deck percentages (reduces opposing lines/buys time vs combo/combo-ish decks). Neither is necessarily better IMO, but I do have a preference for the former more so than the latter preboard.
To reiterate, having this flexibility for games 2-3 across the board is a different deckbuilding topic altogether.
I personally have had success and come to the following conclusions to what I like:
- At least 3x cantrips (prefer Serum since it's on-color and lines up better against opposing hand disruption, but mainly the former)
- No EE/Chalice when on ThoprerSword (the combo is a proactive way to close games and both Chalice/EE contradict these slots IMO)
- Push over Battle (listed my pros and cons for each and personally prefer the case for the 1-mana instant speed interaction for little threats rather than the upside of a slower sorcery-speed interactive spell. Both buy time, the former does with tempo plays, the latter does with lifegain)
- Green spells to combat white enchantments (which overlap as more creature interaction)
I can def see making a case either way for each of these points. I just wanted to revisit my conclusions and test a shell that went against my previous testing results, but I still think it's too early to tell if I've adjusted my opinion on these things in relation to the current state of modern. Gun to my head though, I think I'd still register something closer to my tried/true version that I took to the RPTQ in November (closer to what I played at Regionals/Philly Open).
@FullmetalTezzeret - I will say that I have liked testing Chalice so far as a postboard strategy. It lines up well against a lot of very popular decks like Phoenix, Storm, Burn, GDS, and Tron, though what you cut to make room for them varies between each of these matchups. I still don't love it as a preboard strategy in the dark over ThopterSword. I wouldn't advise playing 3-4 Chalice in a maindeck deck with a 3-4 split of Sword/Foundry for curve considerations (both mana and gameplan development) and certainly wouldn't trim any of the combo in game 1's to make room. In my eyes, this is largely the draw between our deck and the 4-c Whir prison - Do you want these slots to proactively win the game a bit more quickly or proactively lock the game to go a bit longer. Both are well positioned in the meta, one has an inherent weakness to Cryptic decks while the other has a bigger soft spot against Tron.
Hey guys, so I returned to competitive modern again over the last two weeks playing in my SCG Regionals and then the Open/Classic this weekend. I had 3x slightly different lists and long story short, it just wasn't my time (I won some tight matches against players like Benjamin Nikolitch on Jeskai, then immediately got blown out by stuff like my opponent ripping their 1-of Shatterstorm/Recall/6th piece of artifact have from Dredge with Cage locking the Grudges in the yard, etc. in a game 3 I was about to win). I got 1-outted in game 3 in all but 2 of my losses in 3 events lol.
There were some spots I'd like to have made some slightly different decisions in, but overall I was pretty happy about my performance from the last two weekends and can't get too bent out of shape about a lot of the crazy variance that I couldn't control. Still, I wanted to think of some ways to adjust since even the more favorable matchups have now become a lot closer (despite still being favorable overall), which puts on more pressure if game 1 slips from you. Last night at my LGS, I really branched out and wanted to test a handful of things:
1) More artifact-dense builds that people have been playing
2) Seeing if I'd miss the lack of creature interaction by being more all-in on the Hellbent/Bridge plan for small creature matchups
3) Seeing if I'd miss the green spells
4) Accommodating Chalice
5) Playing EE in a ThopterSword deck, which I also tend to disagree with (but felt necessary with the lack of interaction)
6) Taking out all the cantrips that when previously done over an extended period of time, felt were crucial to the percentages I was comfortable with. Wanted to either re-evaluate or further confirm my previous testing conclusions for myself (ie are the Azcanta and Fetch + Bauble as a pseudo Opt enough? Do the upsides of being able to proactively get hellbent with a lower curve/higher odds of metalcraft mitigate the need for cantrips to smooth draws/fix risky openers?)
I also had some postboard slots to address Shatterstorm/Hurkyl's/GDS overall, but more on that later.
Anyway, here's the rough draft of a new shell I took for a spin last night (finished 3-1, losing game 3 against GDS in the finals):
Note: Some of the decisions here (like the 1-2-2 split of Crypt/Nihil/Cage) are largely a meta call for my LGS and overall personal preference.
Wanted to test Mentor over Sai, as it creates bodies through the same means as Sai (actually more), though at the expense of them being artifacts for various upsides, as well as fliers. The upside to mentor is that in the face of Hurkyl's Recall/Shatterstorm, you don't get completely blown out by an opponent who is developing their board behind your bridge lock, only to blow you out once they find their silver bullet. Weak to bolt, but the upside seemed promising enough to try out (plus there's a non-0% chance the GDS play cuts their 1-2 bolts postboard anyway).
Metallic Rebuke is another hedge to both of those spells that still costs 1-2 mana on average but doesn't get locked by your own Chalice on 1 (which you actively want to get online asap) or Chalice on 2. granted its just a mana leak, but often times decks like GDS/Phoenix won't have the luxury of playing around it (nor will they probably actively think about it anyway).
R1: 2-1 Eldrazi Tron
This guy is known to take archetypes and put a spin on them. Tonight he was playing EldraziTron but with more Mono Green Tron elements (ie more walkers/less creatures), which actually just made things harder for me lol. Game 1 he regular Trons me to the point where I think I'm just playing Mono G Tron (didn't een see a temple/cavern). Game 2-3 Chalice really pulled their weight and was one of the reasons I was looking forward to testing the card again.
R2: 2-1 Infect
Pretty happy I maindecked Spellskite tonight (been going back and forth depending on what I need to make room for in the board/overall 75). All 3 games were uncomfortably close, but Spellskite/Bridge/not having tempo negative plays in cantrips helped a decent amount. Also, Metallic Rebuke was a huge blowout.
R3: 2-0 Affinity
Able to get behind ThopterSword and/or bridge before they killed me (had lethal on board the one time. This is why we play a high density of Combo pieces plus max Whirs - Topdeck staticstics are good. Also another matchup where I was happy to have no cantrips, but not necessarily a reason to favor cutting them in the long run overall.
R4: 1-2 GDS
Game 1 I had him right where I wanted him - both out of gas, but I ended with a Cloister online. I drew running lands/Mox/bad stuff and died to 4 Gurmag hits. Here's a matchup where I did miss Serum to some extent, but on the other side, isn't the tipping point to locking in 3-4 every time I play moving forward either. Just something to note. I also want to take a moment to reiterate that while I understand the ceiling and have noticed many players favoring some number of battle at the bridge, I still don't care for this spell overall. It wildly underperformed for me this weekend but I reluctantly played it when I had Chalice in the 75 as a Fatal Push replacement. It's fine and I get why people love it. I'm still just not personally excited about it every time I've sleeved it up.
Game 2 I lock him on resolved LOTV and the Combo. Game 3 I kept a risky one, but was unable to draw into enough mana.
I'm going to keep testing this shell to get more data. Not sure if I'll stick with it long term, but it certainly has a lot of things going for it and wasn't totally awful by any means (closer to Dom Harvey's shell than what I'm used to). Wanna keep moving the flex slots around for sure.
I think calling the cantrips "Card Draw" is a bit of a red herring. I agree that the cantrips/Cloister aren't absolutely necessary to succeed with this list. However, the role that Serum/Stirrings plays in terms of mulligan implications (notably being able to keep an opener/mull to 6 with only 1 land) is what really give weight to the spells in the deck.
Again, you're not unable to take down a tournament without something like Serum Visions (and I totally understand not wanting any if you're playing Chalice of the Voids). But for my money, I put a lot of value on having a statistically higher percentage of keepable hands (I've found that the gap in success rate on a 1-lander with a cantrip vs without varies greatly).
I also like Cloister's role as an "Eject Button" when you have a bridge but can't get Hellbent quickly enough. The postboard role to dig to un-whirrable things (for example, Decay/alt-wincons) when CA is important is certainly great, but that's more of an upside rather than a primary role function.
These slots are what I consider pseudo-flex slots, in that they aren't actually part of the core, but are un-cuttable to many of us who have tested with/without these role players and feel comfortable with some number of them in the 75.
But I'm not exactly shocked at their absence, especially when you take a closer look at a list like Dom Harvey's and realize that there's a much higher density of 0's (and overall artifacts) to mitigate the need for Cloister, which turns on Opal more consistently super early, and increases the overall mana count to mitigate the need to rely on Serum/Stirrings for mulligan implications to some degree (I run 20-21 lands and 3 mox typically = 23=24. These lists are running 21-22 lands and 4 mox = 25-26). It's just a deckbuilding direction that I've tried and not liked as much personally but isn't to say it's incorrect. It notably makes the postboard Sai plan much better if that's an angle you like in some number of Game 2-3's.
I'd also like to second a lot of what The_Nobodys mentioned previously. I've put my shell through a TON of various tests and while there is plenty of room for innovation, some of the conclusions I've made for optimal results are as follows. These are the base rules I tend not to stray away from:
1) No less than 20x Lands (w/ at least 3x Mox Opal) - (21x Lands is probably best)
2) No more than 3x non-blue mana sources - I currently have only 2x non-blue sources myself (Swamp/Academy)
3) 4/3 Split of Foundry/Sword - You're playing this deck because of the strength of ThopterSword combo vs opposing G1 strategies, so build your deck to optimally assemble a linear path to victory as often as possible. Play all 4x Foundry, no less than 3x Sword (tried and true minimal combo split for grixis twin pilots from the past). I used to advocate a 3/2 split was fine for a loooong time. I've since firmly changed my stance on this.
4) Bridge + Hellbent is the alternative line to lock the game and is the other reason you're playing this deck. This is a point of controversy amongst the pilots, but I advocate exactly 3x Bridge (main).
5) Play a Cantrip of some kind - You should be playing at least 3x Cantrips (I prefer Serum Visions which put less stress on Turns 1-3 mana development leading to UUU for Whir)
6) Play at least 9-10 0-mana artifacts - Unless you have a hand with natural combo or a bridge + line to get Hellbent by turn 3-4, you're base gameplan in the dark should be to have 3x untapped lands that produce blue plus 3x artifacts on board to open you up to being able to whir for x=3, which unlocks the optimal setup for either line (Combo Vs Bridge plan) to help cross the finish line.
7) Play 1x copy of either KCI or Time Sieve - Sometimes you need an eject button out of combo/big mana matchups in Game 1. I've recently been re-testing KCI, but I think I still prefer Sieve.
8) Play at least 3-4 Alt-Wincons - Standalone threats in the postboard that ignore postboard hate is important. I also found that it's important to maintain a high enough amount of threats that clock Combo/Big Mana decks. Tez is the best, but his cmc has recently had me in favor of 2x Tez and 2x something cheaper (currently LOTV). I also consider Ego as a standalone threat, as often the first that resolves effects the opponent's GW% similarly to a threat. Each effects the game in a different way, but they're all effective nonetheless.
I think that other decisions are more personal preference but to me, this is the core checklist that I abide to in order to consistently produce the lines I feel give me the best overall win %. As far as additional preferences, I've considered first copy of Needle, Nihil Spellbomb, Damping Sphere, Grafdigger's Cage, and Bottled Cloister as maindeck non-flex slots, same goes for the first 2x Collective Brutality. It's also worth noting that toolbox decks are appealing on the surface because you feel like you "Can do anything", but while the flexibility is nice, the more linear approaches to your lines are often what gain consistent advantages in such a fast format. Sure the first redundant copy of something like Bridge/Foundry aren't needed, the reason you want to have more density of those spells rather than less is to increase the consistency of seeing them within the first 7-10x cards of your library, while also taking some stress off of whir (increase the consistency of having Foundry/Sword plus Whir within your first 10x cards). Again, I don't feel like you need say all 4x Bridge, but these are the sweet spots/minimums I abide by through the extensive testing I've done.
I know there are a lot of base cores amongst us (none of which are necessarily better than the other), but I wanted to provide an updated list for reference, especially if the core I've grown to like is pointed in the direction that anyone else is interested in pursuing. This is based off of the deck that qualified me for the PT (which I unfortunately last month I found out is Standard, not Modern):
Also just putting this out there, this deck has many names and some light controversy arises from time to time since a lot of us omit the namesake from the maindeck (I admit that I sometimes just call this ThopterSword, as I can't call it Whir for fear of confusing it with the non-combo prison deck). I usually refer to it as Tezzerator as he's been the "constant" in my 75 since my personal beginnings of piloting this deck from years ago, and is an ode to one of my deckbuilding heroes from the past - Kenny Öberg.
Also wanted to note that I may once again go silent for a while, as I'll be going pretty hard on new Limited ahead of GPNJ and the PT, plus I have a lot of catching up to do with standard once the new set releases lol. Got a lot of brews lined up, gotta weed out the duds (probably most of them). My posts are typically lengthy, but I just have so much to share about this archetype, love helping out the community here, and I figured I'd go out with a bang for the time being lol. I'll try to pop in from time to time in the near future, but good luck fellow Tez-pilots! Maybe I'll see you at SCG Regionals/Philadelphia in March!
@Al_Z_Heimer Yeah if you have around 10+ non-blue spells you're consistently trying to cast Turn 1, you almost have to be playiing all 8x Gold lands - at which point you then probably have to reluctantly play a much higher density of 0-1 cmc artifacts and while Welding Jar isn't always an all-star in game 1's, if feels almost necessary in order for the rest of the early turns to function both optimally and consistently given these circumstances.
Even with a 0-mana artifact to cast on Turn 1 to activate Gold Land/Opal, your mana base still leaves you with 8x non-red sources (Looting) and 7x non-black sources (IOK/TS), whereas you only have 1x non-blue source that locks you out of T1 Serum. Again, if we're looking at this from the perspective that a cantrip's inclusion is vital to being able to sculpt a suboptimal keep by deploying it as early as possible (T1), it all comes down to whether the percentages here (plus the percentage of openers you'll see with only Gold Lands/Opal but no 0-cmc spell) warrant favoring the difference of Looting over Serum. I've just valued the ability to be able to cast a cantrip off of a higher number of mana sources (that lead towards Turn 3 UUU development) in the event I see 1x land and said cantrip, which has been directly correlated to the number of hands I'm willing to keep vs mulligan.
Certainly not a cut-and-dry decision from either side of the spectrum though!
Haven't checked in for a while, wanted to report that I managed to Top 8 the Saturday PTQ at Magicfest Columbus this weekend (punted my game 2 in the semis after being up a game against a good matchup).
I've been testing the Simic Deck, played a bunch of the Jeskai Outcome when that was hot (super cold on it now), had some mild success with Esper Urza Gifts, but came full circle to this after having a dismal weekend at the SCGcon the weekend prior.
I liked how the meta seemed like it was soft to the ThopterSword combo again and wanted to be pretty heavy on the combo plan. I was also pretty set on playing whir with bullets this weekend as well and tried various shells that moved some things around to accommodate more cantrips/Thoughtcast, some number of Emry, Karn main, etc. Wurmcoil is spicy and sometimes not feasible to cast, but I needed a true match breaker vs popular fair decks like Jund/DS variants, and between Veil over Thoughtseize and a Wurm I could tutor for, I felt like it was worth rolling the dice on. Also not a huge fan of Witchbane but wasn't positive how many Valakut decks would be here and since we're back on Whir, I didn't hate this (especially since I also expected a bunch of Burn). I will note that it was really nice to make a straight swap for the 2x Karn for 1/1 Foundry/Sword in the matchups where you want Karn to come in and are simultaneously inclined to trim the combo a bit anyway. Also, I sometimes wished I had access to 2x Bridge in the 75, but knew I wanted the first in the maindeck, as so many decks for this weekend's meta fold to a resolved bridge in game 1 (another reason I wanted to be back on the whir plan).
All-in-all, I played this shell (about 3-4 of the slots varied between events) but went 4-2 in the first PTQ, then 5-1 in the swiss of the second PTQ, losing in the top 4 (we won't talk about my early exit from the main event after coming off of 2 byes lol). And yes, 3x Mox was intentional, not a budget choice. while it's one of the strongest cards in the deck, I wanted to try Witching Well again as a 1-of and mitigate the number of hands where I draw double mox but can't get to metalcraft smoothly enough. Not saying only 3x was correct, but I was content with this last minute cut before the event started.
After settling on some numbers I liked, here's what I played:
2 Assassin's Trophy
3 Whir of Invention
Planeswalkers
3 Oko, Thief of Crowns
Creatures
4 Urza, Lord High Artificer
Artifacts
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Arcum's Astrolabe
1 Welding Jar
1 Witching Well
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Damping Sphere
1 Time Sieve
1 Witchclaw Talisman
2 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
5 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Mystic Sanctuary
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Academy Ruins
3x Fatal Push
1x Collective Brutality
2x Veil of Summer
1x Assassin's Trophy
2x Unmoored Ego
1x Torpor Orb
1x Witchbane Orb
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Mycosynth Lattice
2x Karn, the Great Creator
R1 (2-0) GDS: I was playing 2 Oko after seeing Eli Kassis go down to 2 main last weekend, but the Friday PTQ reps convinced me that I wanted another, so why not play the 3rd in the main again? I just won with ThopterSword both games, the second game won via Oko to Elk Plague Engineer
R2 (2-1) Skred: My opponent got on the board quickly with Karnstructs/P&K before I could close the game. Game 2 was also grindy but I manage to go infinite. There were 7 mins left in the round but my opponent signed the slip in my favor after game 2 (guess he forgot I only won 1 game?!)
R3 (1-2) Bant Soulherder: G1 My opponent plays Flooded Strand and I follow by resolving Needle on Strand before he cracks (confirmed it resolved but thought he cold respond after the name - didn't realize how that worked lol). But he got the better of me through e-wit/ephemerate/KoA loops in games 2-3
R4 (2-0) Amulet Titan: G1 opponent curves Amulet into Pact-Azusa and ends the turn with double Simic Growth Chambers. I simply played a turn 2 Damping sphere lol. Game 2 I'm able to race and go infinite before he finds a way to win.
R5 (2-1) Naya Zoo: In Game 3 I get to ThopterSword and pass the turn with only 1 Thopter. Assuming my opponent could have multiple pieces of interaction in hand, I allow him to go to combat and Whir for 6 (getting Wurm) instead of making a few thopters then trying to whir for 6 (1 bolt with a sword trigger on the stack would have stopped me from this line). Sure enough he has double bolt but forgets I have a jar to save Wurm.
R6 (2-0) E-Tron: I land a T2 Foundry and my opponent's T3 TKS sees Foundry, double Sword, double Urza. I hit runner-runner land like a boss and go off. G2 opponent's start is Tower/Map into Mine pass. I land T2 Damp Sphere to force him to grab Blast Zone off map. I then rip Needle off the top and name Blast Zone, followed by an Ego on Karn GC, then Whir for Bridge. He runs out of gas and I eventually go infinite and lock 1st seed after swiss.
Qtr Final (2-0) Jund: G1 I win via thopters without sword at 1 life. G2 I manage to get to a turn with Urza + Karn, uptick to make a chump blocker. The following turn I downtick Karn and slam Wurmcoil. The turn after that I draw Whir, downtick Karn for Sword first (important), then whir for foundry.
Semi Final (1-2) Temur Snow(Moon): G1 is close but I close with a ton of thopters in the air. G2 not sure if it was mental fatigue or what, but I have Urza/Foundry/Whir in hand and I go for Urza instead of hold up EOT Whir to play around interaction/clog up my opponent's mana. Sure enough he had a counter, and my following lines weren't as optimal as they could have been. I let it slip after I stabilize as he topdecks Royal Scions and Ouphe. I definitely could have played this game a bit better. Game 3 I get punished as his hand is nuts with a T2 Oko (which I lock with Needle) but I get a bit mana screwed and get knocked out of the tournament (had I won, I would have been on the play against burn in the finals...)
My finish was strong, but it sorta hurts knowing I came so close to getting back on the PT circuit, but missing at the hands of uncharacteristically taking a suboptimal line in my turn 4 of the Semis against a good matchup. Still had a ton of fun, will be ready for the next one I suppose!
Also, what's the verdict on Spine in the main vs side vs none at all? I still can't decide for myself looking at the pros and cons from each side.
Been toying with a lot of things recently but haven't had a chance to do much testing on the URx shells floating around lately. Might have to give it a shot here soon, but wanted to note that I agree that white doesn't seem to outweigh the other secondary/tertiary color options out there for this archetype (at the moment at least).
Alternatively, I view the final Bauble/Mox slots competing with any 1-for-1 trade slots, as both play similar roles (the 0-s turbo out top-end spells/help get hellbent behind bridge to lock combat against creatures, pushes occupy excess open mana in the early turns to stem bleeding/buy time against said creatures). I just personally went back to push as it unlocks Humans' locks against you (a meta trend I noticed/prepared for) and deals with any opposing G1 Scooze I might have to face down (got the meta call right, occurred twice for me this weekend). It's almost never truly a dead G1 spell and the uptick in Azcanta meant that I'd likely have control of milling it over before I drew it if need be.
I keep going between 3-4 mox and I like it a lot less in deck that play more spells vs artifacts. It's also a concession to the way my postboard configs look when the alt wincons/spells come in. It was a flex spot for sure for this 75, especially since the 21st land came back in my list. Keeping/cutting 4th mox has its merits on both sides of the argument. I myself have never felt the need to keep it (especially since pressure for getting chalice on board for 2 mana is much different than the pressures of getting any of our 2-drops online by turn 1).
After some careful considerations, I took this list for a spin at an FNM (4-0 beating Tron of all things in the final round), cut the singleton Chalice in my board from Friday for another alt-wincon slot, and went undefeated at an IQ this weekend. Here's the list:
2 Fatal Push
3 Collective Brutality
4 Whir of Invention
Enchantments
2 Search for Azcanta
Artifacts
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
3 Welding Jar
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Damping Sphere
1 Time Sieve
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Bottled Cloister
3 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
2 Spire of Industry
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Tolaria West
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Academy Ruins
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Spellskite
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Torpor Orb
1 Witchbane Orb
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Unmoored Ego
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Some recent changes were cutting the cantrips (which historically I have not liked doing but mitigated the need for them by lowering my curve, playing more artifacts, playing 21st land again, and playing 2 Azcanta to play the role Serum provides mid-late game/providing mana later on), testing EE again in place of 3rd Push (I had only recently reintroduced push again since humans has been creeping back up), and the Tolaria/Inventor's Fair package to go along with that. Here's the report:
R1: 2-1
TRON
Got paired against one of the guys I came with and I was anything but thrilled at first.
G1: Double Needle (O-Stone, Karn) into Whir for Sphere, bought me enough time to get Time Sieve lock online.
G2: Close game but ended up losing to beats without a bridge
G3: LOTV into Tez beat downs closed the game.
R2: 2-1
GB Rock
G1: Had to keep an ok hand with a good ratio of spells to lands (knew what he was on before game 1 so I didn't want to mulligan even a suboptimal hand). Unfortunately got flooded with land draws.
G2-3: Early Jar (or two) into turn 3 Bridge to lock both wins.
R3: 2-0
Bant Knightfall
G1: Locked combat with bridge, eventually killed with Thopters
G2: Bridge into Torpor Orb
R4: 1-1-1
The Rack
G1: Tight lines lead me to whir for EE (for 0), break it, Ruins to put it back on top, cast it for 1 (but not enough mana open at this point to activate), and unfortunately died to a Mutavault hit plus second Affliction
G2: Got to Time Sieve Lock the turn before I would have died
G3: Was behind most of the game, but went to turns and just had to fade a funeral charm off the top (which would have pumped his Mutavault for the kill on Turn 5)
R5: 2-0
4-C Whir (Cloyle's most recent 5-0 list, noticed from the sideboard numbers during game 2 when I cast an Ego)
Note: We played a "Foiled Whir Mirror" lol
G1: He gets to Jar/Chalices then Bridge/Cloister, but doesn't see a Spyglass. I manage to get the Time Sieve lock on him, then proceed to get EE/Academy Ruins, blow up his jars, then his Chalice, then find a 3rd color source to blow up the bridge.
G2: Despite all the recent exposure/articles written about both base-versions of the Whir decks, nobody seems to want to address the approach to the mirrors. I've been working on a postboard gameplan that doesn't interfere with my postboard plans against the rest of the field (which is more important), and it really shined for me here.
My opponent came out the gates with double Spyglass (first naming Thopter Foundry when he saw I had Foundry/Sword/Whir in hand, the second naming EE). I got an Ego to strip the remaining 2x Spyglasses from his deck and wrote down the remaining avenues to victory left for my opponent. I also had a live Azcanta, which really gave me the advantage to lock the rest of the game. With it, I am able to find a Needle (name Jester's Cap), Whir (find Witchbane Orb to stop Ipnu and Tez Ult - his list didn't have Grid and he didn't bring in Sai), and then another Ego (strip Academy Ruins) into another needle for Tez (prevent 5/5 beats). We draw-go forever but I know I have him locked. Azcanta then finds LOTV and Ashiok which eventually get locked by Witchbane, but I didn't worry about prioritizing Witchbane with second Ego cuz I was already up a game, knew he had no ways to win once I lock Tez with the Needle, and stripping his ruins with Ego rather than a Spyglass/Needle meant that I could not get decked, but he now could. Once he realized it was over, he extended the hand.
R6: ID
-- TOP 8 --
We all decide to split the prize money evenly and just play for the invites.
Qtrs: Affinity
My opponent doesn't care about the invite, but wants to see how things play out for fun. I land T2 Foundry into T3 Whir for Sword. He saw enough and didn't want to play games 2-3.
Semis: Amulet Titan
My opponent tells me congrats cuz she already is queued and just wants to go home lol
Finals: Dropped
I would have liked to play for 1st place/bragging rights, but I was 2 hours away, the tournament started later than I'm used to, plus my friend (who I was holding hostage) and I both worked early the next day, so I was more than happy to just dip after my semi-opponent signed the slip. There was no extra money in it plus I got what I came for - the invite.
As always, I just want to note that my 75 isn't nearly as locked in as the 4-c Whir Prison's list (at least they seem to have settled on about 72 of the slots right now) and am constantly moving stuff around. I do still really like Serum Vision's impact on mulligan implications (and being able to keep 1-land hands, which I tend to almost never keep without Serum), however having the 2x Azcanta to fill a similar role when you're running out of gas in the mid-late game was pretty nice. It's also been a really nice "threat" to have against GBx/GDS as another impactful turn 2 play that you can squeeze in around their hand disruption. Again, not some revolutionary slot I think everyone MUST try, but the role it's been playing for me in tandem with the adjustments I've made have been pretty positive overall.
This just scratches the surface to how I came to a lot of the numbers I settled on, but let me know if you have any questions and hopefully I'll reply in a timely manner!
2) I've tested Tez in the maindeck again recently and while it's not bad, it's not entirely necessary either. A lot of decks fold to bridge game 1 and jeopardizing the ability to dump your hand to a low enough count is a risk that isn't absolutely necessary to take. Sure we have Bottled Cloister, but Bridge+Cloister is probably winning the game at that point anyway. Maindeck Tez is fine (I saw someone do it this weekend), especially if you want to make room for something in the sideboard. I just don't think it's absolutely necessary.
I'm still interested in the potential of new Teferi as you mentioned previously. I've been developing another Jeskai shell recently (with a spicy postboard gameplan that ignores vs Stony/RIP/Artifact Hate) and he looks like something I'd be interested in testing in the 75.
Sorry I'm a bit late to the party here! So I've been utilizing/updating a double sided cheat sheet (fits around a card in a clear sleeve cuz I like being compact/efficient like that lol) that is my sideboard guide for the 30-ish most popular decks of the format in a given point of the meta. Rather than showing true ins/outs, I lay out the most common things that matter postboard (ie. the probability of seeing universal stuff like surgical/EE, prioritizing Needle/Ego targets, which red/green spells they could have, etc). That being said, I've been testing a lot of different things beyond what I previously mentioned I've been trying, here's where I currently stand in regards to your questions:
Inversely, if you're playing some number of Cantrips like Serum Visions, I'll typically cut these when Speed matters (Mox is good).
I know some are more skeptical on Ego vs UW control (not Jeskai, mind you), but Ego is very good here, as their paths to victory revolve around Teferi/JTMS (name in that order typically), then creature beatdown. The 1 (2 if you have to) bridge you keep in can stop that, and each needle now has less pressure from opposing DSphere/Cryptics unlocking them. The deck relies so heavily on the 2x planeswalkers they play that Needle effects shut down the few paths to victory they have, and Egos are essentially Needles that they don't have answers for once they resolve.
I know some like bringing in Ego against decks with Shatterstorm, but I'm not the biggest fan. I've been trying it begrudgingly but sometimes you just die anyway if you had to make room for some number of Egos by reducing your artifact count/locking out Whir lines that can't get to bridge/protection for bridge in a timely manner.
Sure they could have hand disruption/a 1-mana counterspell, but that arguement is moot since you're going to lose no matter what X-spell would be in your hand (Swan Song/Muddle/Negate).
I'm not the biggest fan of countermagic in Bridge decks (I only play 1 rebuke right now), but it's a great tempo play and you're usually happy to snap it off early if the rest of your hand looks promising and the opponent plays something juicy with shields down (like a T2 angler, Pyro Ascension, etc).
Hope this helps!
My point was that I have yet to discover/see a compelling list that has a 3-4 split of the combo co-existing with the full 3-4 Chalice of the Voids in the maindeck, as we already have so many 2-mana plays and IMO they promote 2 conflicting gameplans aiming to be developed (ie, either prioritize the combo or the 4-c Whir prison gameplan for game 1). They both can certainly co-exist against some strategies, but I don't feel having both maindeck is a good idea for the vast majority of preboard configurations you'll face across all game 1's. Outside of some matchups like GDS and Phoenix (albeit popular ones), Chalice is typically good when the combo isn't and vice versa, so forcing a high number of both in at the same time sorta dilutes the overall focus and execution of your game 1 strategy. Curve consideration as well as preboard gameplan development definitely matters in these regards and I'd rather implement a more focused strategy and "pick a lane" for consistency sake.
Again, Foundry lines provide redundant Bridge effects that lock the board and can close games faster, whereas Chalice fills the same slots but aim to both protect the crucial lock piece (Bridge) and invalidate other pieces of the opposing deck. Baseline: one avenue aims to reduce turns (provides inevitability vs fair decks), the other aims to reduce opposing deck percentages (reduces opposing lines/buys time vs combo/combo-ish decks). Neither is necessarily better IMO, but I do have a preference for the former more so than the latter preboard.
To reiterate, having this flexibility for games 2-3 across the board is a different deckbuilding topic altogether.
- At least 3x cantrips (prefer Serum since it's on-color and lines up better against opposing hand disruption, but mainly the former)
- No EE/Chalice when on ThoprerSword (the combo is a proactive way to close games and both Chalice/EE contradict these slots IMO)
- Push over Battle (listed my pros and cons for each and personally prefer the case for the 1-mana instant speed interaction for little threats rather than the upside of a slower sorcery-speed interactive spell. Both buy time, the former does with tempo plays, the latter does with lifegain)
- Green spells to combat white enchantments (which overlap as more creature interaction)
I can def see making a case either way for each of these points. I just wanted to revisit my conclusions and test a shell that went against my previous testing results, but I still think it's too early to tell if I've adjusted my opinion on these things in relation to the current state of modern. Gun to my head though, I think I'd still register something closer to my tried/true version that I took to the RPTQ in November (closer to what I played at Regionals/Philly Open).
@FullmetalTezzeret - I will say that I have liked testing Chalice so far as a postboard strategy. It lines up well against a lot of very popular decks like Phoenix, Storm, Burn, GDS, and Tron, though what you cut to make room for them varies between each of these matchups. I still don't love it as a preboard strategy in the dark over ThopterSword. I wouldn't advise playing 3-4 Chalice in a maindeck deck with a 3-4 split of Sword/Foundry for curve considerations (both mana and gameplan development) and certainly wouldn't trim any of the combo in game 1's to make room. In my eyes, this is largely the draw between our deck and the 4-c Whir prison - Do you want these slots to proactively win the game a bit more quickly or proactively lock the game to go a bit longer. Both are well positioned in the meta, one has an inherent weakness to Cryptic decks while the other has a bigger soft spot against Tron.
There were some spots I'd like to have made some slightly different decisions in, but overall I was pretty happy about my performance from the last two weekends and can't get too bent out of shape about a lot of the crazy variance that I couldn't control. Still, I wanted to think of some ways to adjust since even the more favorable matchups have now become a lot closer (despite still being favorable overall), which puts on more pressure if game 1 slips from you. Last night at my LGS, I really branched out and wanted to test a handful of things:
1) More artifact-dense builds that people have been playing
2) Seeing if I'd miss the lack of creature interaction by being more all-in on the Hellbent/Bridge plan for small creature matchups
3) Seeing if I'd miss the green spells
4) Accommodating Chalice
5) Playing EE in a ThopterSword deck, which I also tend to disagree with (but felt necessary with the lack of interaction)
6) Taking out all the cantrips that when previously done over an extended period of time, felt were crucial to the percentages I was comfortable with. Wanted to either re-evaluate or further confirm my previous testing conclusions for myself (ie are the Azcanta and Fetch + Bauble as a pseudo Opt enough? Do the upsides of being able to proactively get hellbent with a lower curve/higher odds of metalcraft mitigate the need for cantrips to smooth draws/fix risky openers?)
I also had some postboard slots to address Shatterstorm/Hurkyl's/GDS overall, but more on that later.
Anyway, here's the rough draft of a new shell I took for a spin last night (finished 3-1, losing game 3 against GDS in the finals):
2 Collective Brutality
4 Whir of Invention
Enchantments
1 Search for Azcanta
Artifacts
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
3 Welding Jar
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Spellskite
1 Damping Sphere
1 Time Sieve
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Bottled Cloister
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Spire of Industry
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins
3x Chalice of the Void
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Torpor Orb
1x Witchbane Orb
1x Metallic Rebuke
3x Unmoored Ego
2x Monastery Mentor
1x Liliana of the Veil
2x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Note: Some of the decisions here (like the 1-2-2 split of Crypt/Nihil/Cage) are largely a meta call for my LGS and overall personal preference.
Wanted to test Mentor over Sai, as it creates bodies through the same means as Sai (actually more), though at the expense of them being artifacts for various upsides, as well as fliers. The upside to mentor is that in the face of Hurkyl's Recall/Shatterstorm, you don't get completely blown out by an opponent who is developing their board behind your bridge lock, only to blow you out once they find their silver bullet. Weak to bolt, but the upside seemed promising enough to try out (plus there's a non-0% chance the GDS play cuts their 1-2 bolts postboard anyway).
Metallic Rebuke is another hedge to both of those spells that still costs 1-2 mana on average but doesn't get locked by your own Chalice on 1 (which you actively want to get online asap) or Chalice on 2. granted its just a mana leak, but often times decks like GDS/Phoenix won't have the luxury of playing around it (nor will they probably actively think about it anyway).
R1: 2-1 Eldrazi Tron
This guy is known to take archetypes and put a spin on them. Tonight he was playing EldraziTron but with more Mono Green Tron elements (ie more walkers/less creatures), which actually just made things harder for me lol. Game 1 he regular Trons me to the point where I think I'm just playing Mono G Tron (didn't een see a temple/cavern). Game 2-3 Chalice really pulled their weight and was one of the reasons I was looking forward to testing the card again.
R2: 2-1 Infect
Pretty happy I maindecked Spellskite tonight (been going back and forth depending on what I need to make room for in the board/overall 75). All 3 games were uncomfortably close, but Spellskite/Bridge/not having tempo negative plays in cantrips helped a decent amount. Also, Metallic Rebuke was a huge blowout.
R3: 2-0 Affinity
Able to get behind ThopterSword and/or bridge before they killed me (had lethal on board the one time. This is why we play a high density of Combo pieces plus max Whirs - Topdeck staticstics are good. Also another matchup where I was happy to have no cantrips, but not necessarily a reason to favor cutting them in the long run overall.
R4: 1-2 GDS
Game 1 I had him right where I wanted him - both out of gas, but I ended with a Cloister online. I drew running lands/Mox/bad stuff and died to 4 Gurmag hits. Here's a matchup where I did miss Serum to some extent, but on the other side, isn't the tipping point to locking in 3-4 every time I play moving forward either. Just something to note. I also want to take a moment to reiterate that while I understand the ceiling and have noticed many players favoring some number of battle at the bridge, I still don't care for this spell overall. It wildly underperformed for me this weekend but I reluctantly played it when I had Chalice in the 75 as a Fatal Push replacement. It's fine and I get why people love it. I'm still just not personally excited about it every time I've sleeved it up.
Game 2 I lock him on resolved LOTV and the Combo. Game 3 I kept a risky one, but was unable to draw into enough mana.
I'm going to keep testing this shell to get more data. Not sure if I'll stick with it long term, but it certainly has a lot of things going for it and wasn't totally awful by any means (closer to Dom Harvey's shell than what I'm used to). Wanna keep moving the flex slots around for sure.
Again, you're not unable to take down a tournament without something like Serum Visions (and I totally understand not wanting any if you're playing Chalice of the Voids). But for my money, I put a lot of value on having a statistically higher percentage of keepable hands (I've found that the gap in success rate on a 1-lander with a cantrip vs without varies greatly).
I also like Cloister's role as an "Eject Button" when you have a bridge but can't get Hellbent quickly enough. The postboard role to dig to un-whirrable things (for example, Decay/alt-wincons) when CA is important is certainly great, but that's more of an upside rather than a primary role function.
These slots are what I consider pseudo-flex slots, in that they aren't actually part of the core, but are un-cuttable to many of us who have tested with/without these role players and feel comfortable with some number of them in the 75.
But I'm not exactly shocked at their absence, especially when you take a closer look at a list like Dom Harvey's and realize that there's a much higher density of 0's (and overall artifacts) to mitigate the need for Cloister, which turns on Opal more consistently super early, and increases the overall mana count to mitigate the need to rely on Serum/Stirrings for mulligan implications to some degree (I run 20-21 lands and 3 mox typically = 23=24. These lists are running 21-22 lands and 4 mox = 25-26). It's just a deckbuilding direction that I've tried and not liked as much personally but isn't to say it's incorrect. It notably makes the postboard Sai plan much better if that's an angle you like in some number of Game 2-3's.
1) No less than 20x Lands (w/ at least 3x Mox Opal) - (21x Lands is probably best)
2) No more than 3x non-blue mana sources - I currently have only 2x non-blue sources myself (Swamp/Academy)
3) 4/3 Split of Foundry/Sword - You're playing this deck because of the strength of ThopterSword combo vs opposing G1 strategies, so build your deck to optimally assemble a linear path to victory as often as possible. Play all 4x Foundry, no less than 3x Sword (tried and true minimal combo split for grixis twin pilots from the past). I used to advocate a 3/2 split was fine for a loooong time. I've since firmly changed my stance on this.
4) Bridge + Hellbent is the alternative line to lock the game and is the other reason you're playing this deck. This is a point of controversy amongst the pilots, but I advocate exactly 3x Bridge (main).
5) Play a Cantrip of some kind - You should be playing at least 3x Cantrips (I prefer Serum Visions which put less stress on Turns 1-3 mana development leading to UUU for Whir)
6) Play at least 9-10 0-mana artifacts - Unless you have a hand with natural combo or a bridge + line to get Hellbent by turn 3-4, you're base gameplan in the dark should be to have 3x untapped lands that produce blue plus 3x artifacts on board to open you up to being able to whir for x=3, which unlocks the optimal setup for either line (Combo Vs Bridge plan) to help cross the finish line.
7) Play 1x copy of either KCI or Time Sieve - Sometimes you need an eject button out of combo/big mana matchups in Game 1. I've recently been re-testing KCI, but I think I still prefer Sieve.
8) Play at least 3-4 Alt-Wincons - Standalone threats in the postboard that ignore postboard hate is important. I also found that it's important to maintain a high enough amount of threats that clock Combo/Big Mana decks. Tez is the best, but his cmc has recently had me in favor of 2x Tez and 2x something cheaper (currently LOTV). I also consider Ego as a standalone threat, as often the first that resolves effects the opponent's GW% similarly to a threat. Each effects the game in a different way, but they're all effective nonetheless.
I think that other decisions are more personal preference but to me, this is the core checklist that I abide to in order to consistently produce the lines I feel give me the best overall win %. As far as additional preferences, I've considered first copy of Needle, Nihil Spellbomb, Damping Sphere, Grafdigger's Cage, and Bottled Cloister as maindeck non-flex slots, same goes for the first 2x Collective Brutality. It's also worth noting that toolbox decks are appealing on the surface because you feel like you "Can do anything", but while the flexibility is nice, the more linear approaches to your lines are often what gain consistent advantages in such a fast format. Sure the first redundant copy of something like Bridge/Foundry aren't needed, the reason you want to have more density of those spells rather than less is to increase the consistency of seeing them within the first 7-10x cards of your library, while also taking some stress off of whir (increase the consistency of having Foundry/Sword plus Whir within your first 10x cards). Again, I don't feel like you need say all 4x Bridge, but these are the sweet spots/minimums I abide by through the extensive testing I've done.
I know there are a lot of base cores amongst us (none of which are necessarily better than the other), but I wanted to provide an updated list for reference, especially if the core I've grown to like is pointed in the direction that anyone else is interested in pursuing. This is based off of the deck that qualified me for the PT (which I unfortunately last month I found out is Standard, not Modern):
3 Serum Visions
3 Fatal Push
3 Collective Brutality
4 Whir of Invention
Enchantments
1 Search for Azcanta
Artifacts
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
2 Welding Jar
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Damping Sphere
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Bottled Cloister
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
2 Spire of Industry
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Pithing Needle
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Torpor Orb
1x Witchbane Orb
1x Battle at the Bridge
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Unmoored Ego
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Also just putting this out there, this deck has many names and some light controversy arises from time to time since a lot of us omit the namesake from the maindeck (I admit that I sometimes just call this ThopterSword, as I can't call it Whir for fear of confusing it with the non-combo prison deck). I usually refer to it as Tezzerator as he's been the "constant" in my 75 since my personal beginnings of piloting this deck from years ago, and is an ode to one of my deckbuilding heroes from the past - Kenny Öberg.
Also wanted to note that I may once again go silent for a while, as I'll be going pretty hard on new Limited ahead of GPNJ and the PT, plus I have a lot of catching up to do with standard once the new set releases lol. Got a lot of brews lined up, gotta weed out the duds (probably most of them). My posts are typically lengthy, but I just have so much to share about this archetype, love helping out the community here, and I figured I'd go out with a bang for the time being lol. I'll try to pop in from time to time in the near future, but good luck fellow Tez-pilots! Maybe I'll see you at SCG Regionals/Philadelphia in March!
Even with a 0-mana artifact to cast on Turn 1 to activate Gold Land/Opal, your mana base still leaves you with 8x non-red sources (Looting) and 7x non-black sources (IOK/TS), whereas you only have 1x non-blue source that locks you out of T1 Serum. Again, if we're looking at this from the perspective that a cantrip's inclusion is vital to being able to sculpt a suboptimal keep by deploying it as early as possible (T1), it all comes down to whether the percentages here (plus the percentage of openers you'll see with only Gold Lands/Opal but no 0-cmc spell) warrant favoring the difference of Looting over Serum. I've just valued the ability to be able to cast a cantrip off of a higher number of mana sources (that lead towards Turn 3 UUU development) in the event I see 1x land and said cantrip, which has been directly correlated to the number of hands I'm willing to keep vs mulligan.
Certainly not a cut-and-dry decision from either side of the spectrum though!