Tested Timely reinforcements online today against an aggro deck, and i can say it's incredibly powerful. Can't wait to cast it against burn as it can act as a 2x1 or even a 3x1 if we have less creatures than them. I'm impressed
Wouldn't Sphinx's Revelation be a better fit? Slower, sure, but scalable, unconditional, instant speed, and draws you spirits.
Which is why I have 3 in the side but the majority of games I've played in my current meta, playing Scooze as a 3-4 drop wasn't what I needed, another large body and pushing my E1 into the regen zone was more relevant. My opponent now has 2 3/3 to deal with, one with regen, whereas scooze takes at least 2 turns to get going. Turns I'd rather be casting Steel Leaf, and turns where E1 is still just a 2/2 candidate for removal.
Don't get me wrong, I love scooze, and that's why I have 3 in the side, in matchups where I really need it, there's no replacement. But most of the time, having bigger creatures NOW, and straining my opponents removal has been a better G1 plan. And most of the time, Scooze get's blown up before he's relevant, so he is usually one of the last creatures I end up casting
I may be wrong, but I'm gonna try this and see if my results aren't better first.
Interesting...Never thought that Rancor would be the answer to a T3 kill, but I'll have to start thinking of that card more seriously.
I've also added a scooze to the side and moved the 2 from the main (3 total) in favor of running 2x Tuskers. I don't see lightning bolt nearly as much as I used to, and with the new Steel Leafs dominating my 3 drop slot, I prefer to ensure I can cast a 3/3 on curve, get a second evolve trigger, and have 1 more for Aspect, rather than hold up Scooze for the two extra mana it takes to keep it out of bolt range. I'm sure I'll miss the bit of life gain it afforded me though, especially after all the fetches/canopies I've added.
Primal Comman I can get behind because its a multitool, but Plow Under is too specific and has no upside other than setting the opponent back. It does nothing for us otherwise. Great in Mono Green Control, not so much here. I'd much rather run Acidic Slimes over Plow Under.
Terastodon is far too expensive, and gives the opponent 3 3/3s which trade with your 8 drop. Why blow up permanents if you can win the game with craterhoof? Even Sylvan Primordial is too expensive and comes down too late for the permanent disruption to make any meaninful difference. LD needs to start T2/3 to give the desired effect. Acidic Slime is a bit slow but at least comes down T3 and gives devotion.
Khalni hydra would probably work great in a Token Walker build with VOZ/Relentless/Wildspeaker/Primalhunter/Apex Predator and 4x Wolfbriar, but in other builds its just not enough. We need the limited creature slots in our deck to DO SOMETHING as soon as they hit, either that, or be difficult to remove (Chameleon). For the same reason, Primalcrux and Deus of Calamity are suboptimal in the slot...for the same amount of mana, we can have creatures that directly effect the board state as soon as they come down. or force a 2-1 in order to remove them (Thragtusk/Vorapede/Primeval)
Prowling Serpopard is a decent card but Spellbreaker Behemoth is quite a bit better, as Jeskai Control can't kill it with Helix/Bolt.
Mirrorweave and Doubling Chant are cool ideas, but in practice, there's just better things we'd like to be doing with the mana. And if you don't have the "combo", they're just dead cards in hand.
Aspect is a very powerful card and can be a complete blowout, but I don't think I'd run it as more than a 1-of in a big-mana Devotion deck. Auto 3-of in my stompy deck though, but obviously that's a whole other archetype.
I actually do have 2 Horizon Canopies in there MagicYio, just forgot to include them in the list.
I'm actually looking to start a bit more of a mathematical discussion. Lets start by talking about our most explosive hand possible. The fastest line I can think of is:
T1 Ex1 > T2 Ex1 + Dryad, swing 2 > T3 Narnam(2/3) + Avatar(6/5), swing 10 > T4 SLC + Aspect Swing 20+9 = 41 damage over 4 turns (Ex1 are both a 5/5)
A Geist in place of either the Avatar or the SLC nets a T4 kill as well.
I haven't been able to formulate a T3 kill and frankly I don't think it's possible unless the opponent aggressively fetches and shocks, in which case they're removing our creatures, and we're not getting the T3 kill anyways. Even a hand with 1 E1, 4 Geists and an Aspect is a T4 kill.
Anyone got any reports with the new SLC? Here's the list that went 2-2 last friday and has had pretty decent results in several casual games since then.
Not too fond of the weak SB against control but it seems BW control has been sloping downwards in popularity anyways, so I shored up other matchups instead.
Notably, I added 6 fetches and a full playset of Narnams and Steel Leaf, removed all Leatherbacks, went down to a single Rhonas, went -1 Blossoming Defense +1 Vines of Vastwood, and opted to run 20 lands to vibe with the lowered curve and to make room for 4 Narnams. I wish I could run 4 Aspects but I just can't make room.
Thoughts?
Also, can we talk about optimal lines of play? I never know if its better to get out Geist, Avatar, or Scooze first. I know that playing Haste creatures last allows for more damage over turns, but if I can get an Undying counter before I play Avatar, he comes out stronger. I also hate running out Scooze into removal just for the Evolve trigger.
Normally, I hold up Avatar if I think I can get two counters on him, otherwise I play Avatar on curve, and Geist last. My reasoning there is playing Geist after even Steel Leaf and Rhonas allows for the max possible damage over turns, and he is also the most resilient to removal/board wipes. A pair of Geists coming down after a board wipe has won me quite a few games.
I also will play out all E1 before any creatures that evolve them, not sure if this is correct or if I should just try to get one out and then move up the curve...
Again, I'm really not sure that my reasoning is optimal and I would really like to get the best possible damage per turn sorted out.
What do you guys think are our optimal lines of play for the earliest possible kill? When to play Aspect? Best targets for Rancor?
Hey guys, bit of a new player here, I've been playing since January or so and really went headfirst into it. I've been playing at local events about 3 times a week and have built 3 decks since then, and love every second of it.
But I've leveled off a bit lately for a few reasons, the main ones being that the decks I'm running are a bit on the slow/weak/inconsistent side, and the second one being that I have no healthy way to learn/improve, other than hoping I catch mistakes and learn from them during tournaments. I don't really have much of a playgroup, nor do I know many people who want to mentor me.
The decks I've built are Mono Green Stompy (which I just added Steel Leaf to), Mono Green Control/Land Destruction (3rd at an SCG in Feb) and Green Nykthos Devotion.
If you can't tell, I like green. But I'm not sure I think mono green is really a legitimate deck-building strategy anymore. I'd love to be proved wrong on this, but the lack of decent removal seems to be the biggest hangup.
I've looked at other decks and am a bit lost on where to start, but I know that my next deck purchase needs to be at least a Tier 2 deck, something I can feel confident in running, and know that when I lose, its because of my own lines of play, or because of a weakness in the matchup that I can work to shore up.
I know that I like good creatures, and thats something that someone else noticed about the decks I play too. The Mono Green Control deck was really fun to play as well, winning the game with no permanents on my opponents side was really gratifying, in a sadistic way.
I also know that I do NOT like control, or rather, that I don't like being controlled. I lean towards creatures that, if not just a solid creature for the curve, have an immediate effect when they enter, or are very difficult to remove/cant be countered. Card like Chameleon Colossus, Thrun, Carnage Tyrant, Dungrove Elder, Thragtusk, Primeval Titan, Hornet Queen, Craterhoof Behemoth, Tireless Tracker, etc are examples of how I like to play.
However, I also found a Bant Spirits deck that I really like, so green is by no means my only constraint. I had some fun splashing red in my Devotion deck last week as well, for Blood Moons and Kessig Wolf Run, as well as Bonfire of the Damned.
Some other decks I've looked at are Colorless Eldrazi Stompy, GR Eldrazi, Amulet Titan, GR Ponza.
I don't know what your predispositions are but I would submit to you that if it works, and does help to win games, then it absolutely is correct.
You are playing a slightly better version of a bad deck. That is never going to be "correct" by any definition of the term.
Ok so your only point remains that Stompy isn't 5c Humans. Ever think that some of us might have fetches lying around from our other "actually good" decks? Your elitism is incredible.
You're in a Stompy thread. We like Stompy here. If you don't, then go find another thread to ***** on.
My point is, are you people spikes or not? Are we discussing decks that actually try to win or are we just forcing an archetype just to play something different? People have made disparaging comments about budget decks in this thread and the previous one, and kept bringing up the fact that this thread is not located in the budget section of the forums, but to me, playing a bad deck just to be different makes so much less sense than playing it because you don't happen to have access to a better one.
Putting fetchlands into this deck and still forcing mono green just cannot be correct if your objective is to win games.
Look man, in the 1 drop slot, our options are E1, Dryad Militant, Kessig Prowler, and Narnam Renegade. E1 is an auto 4-of. All the others are a 2/1, except Narnam Renegade, which is a 2/3 with deathtouch if we can trigger revolt. Deathtouch + Rancor, another 4-of in the deck, is a nasty combo. What's the most consistent way of triggering revolt? Fetchlands.
I don't know what your predispositions are but I would submit to you that if it works, and does help to win games, then it absolutely is correct.
Guys, as the age old adage goes, don't pay attention to trolls.
Excited to go back to my stompy deck for the first time in two months with fetches, Canopies, Renegades, and Steel Leaf
I'm very interested to see how Steel leaf changes the way we build our deck. Will it become an immediate 4-of? Will it make Rhonas that much stronger, or completely replace Rhonas as the more consistent creature? Do we run a more top-end heavy deck? Does ramping into Collected Company become a strong option?
Wouldn't Sphinx's Revelation be a better fit? Slower, sure, but scalable, unconditional, instant speed, and draws you spirits.
Don't get me wrong, I love scooze, and that's why I have 3 in the side, in matchups where I really need it, there's no replacement. But most of the time, having bigger creatures NOW, and straining my opponents removal has been a better G1 plan. And most of the time, Scooze get's blown up before he's relevant, so he is usually one of the last creatures I end up casting
I may be wrong, but I'm gonna try this and see if my results aren't better first.
I've also added a scooze to the side and moved the 2 from the main (3 total) in favor of running 2x Tuskers. I don't see lightning bolt nearly as much as I used to, and with the new Steel Leafs dominating my 3 drop slot, I prefer to ensure I can cast a 3/3 on curve, get a second evolve trigger, and have 1 more for Aspect, rather than hold up Scooze for the two extra mana it takes to keep it out of bolt range. I'm sure I'll miss the bit of life gain it afforded me though, especially after all the fetches/canopies I've added.
Terastodon is far too expensive, and gives the opponent 3 3/3s which trade with your 8 drop. Why blow up permanents if you can win the game with craterhoof? Even Sylvan Primordial is too expensive and comes down too late for the permanent disruption to make any meaninful difference. LD needs to start T2/3 to give the desired effect. Acidic Slime is a bit slow but at least comes down T3 and gives devotion.
Khalni hydra would probably work great in a Token Walker build with VOZ/Relentless/Wildspeaker/Primalhunter/Apex Predator and 4x Wolfbriar, but in other builds its just not enough. We need the limited creature slots in our deck to DO SOMETHING as soon as they hit, either that, or be difficult to remove (Chameleon). For the same reason, Primalcrux and Deus of Calamity are suboptimal in the slot...for the same amount of mana, we can have creatures that directly effect the board state as soon as they come down. or force a 2-1 in order to remove them (Thragtusk/Vorapede/Primeval)
Prowling Serpopard is a decent card but Spellbreaker Behemoth is quite a bit better, as Jeskai Control can't kill it with Helix/Bolt.
Mirrorweave and Doubling Chant are cool ideas, but in practice, there's just better things we'd like to be doing with the mana. And if you don't have the "combo", they're just dead cards in hand.
Aspect is a very powerful card and can be a complete blowout, but I don't think I'd run it as more than a 1-of in a big-mana Devotion deck. Auto 3-of in my stompy deck though, but obviously that's a whole other archetype.
I'm actually looking to start a bit more of a mathematical discussion. Lets start by talking about our most explosive hand possible. The fastest line I can think of is:
T1 Ex1 > T2 Ex1 + Dryad, swing 2 > T3 Narnam(2/3) + Avatar(6/5), swing 10 > T4 SLC + Aspect Swing 20+9 = 41 damage over 4 turns (Ex1 are both a 5/5)
A Geist in place of either the Avatar or the SLC nets a T4 kill as well.
I haven't been able to formulate a T3 kill and frankly I don't think it's possible unless the opponent aggressively fetches and shocks, in which case they're removing our creatures, and we're not getting the T3 kill anyways. Even a hand with 1 E1, 4 Geists and an Aspect is a T4 kill.
4 Experiment One
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Dryad Militant
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Steel Leaf Champion
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
4 Rancor
Land
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
12 Forest
2 Treetop Village
Instant
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Aspect of Hydra
2 Dismember
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
2 Pithing Needle
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Back to Nature
3 Natural State
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Creeping Corrosion
Not too fond of the weak SB against control but it seems BW control has been sloping downwards in popularity anyways, so I shored up other matchups instead.
Notably, I added 6 fetches and a full playset of Narnams and Steel Leaf, removed all Leatherbacks, went down to a single Rhonas, went -1 Blossoming Defense +1 Vines of Vastwood, and opted to run 20 lands to vibe with the lowered curve and to make room for 4 Narnams. I wish I could run 4 Aspects but I just can't make room.
Thoughts?
Also, can we talk about optimal lines of play? I never know if its better to get out Geist, Avatar, or Scooze first. I know that playing Haste creatures last allows for more damage over turns, but if I can get an Undying counter before I play Avatar, he comes out stronger. I also hate running out Scooze into removal just for the Evolve trigger.
Normally, I hold up Avatar if I think I can get two counters on him, otherwise I play Avatar on curve, and Geist last. My reasoning there is playing Geist after even Steel Leaf and Rhonas allows for the max possible damage over turns, and he is also the most resilient to removal/board wipes. A pair of Geists coming down after a board wipe has won me quite a few games.
I also will play out all E1 before any creatures that evolve them, not sure if this is correct or if I should just try to get one out and then move up the curve...
Again, I'm really not sure that my reasoning is optimal and I would really like to get the best possible damage per turn sorted out.
What do you guys think are our optimal lines of play for the earliest possible kill? When to play Aspect? Best targets for Rancor?
Is this deck more consistent/does it win faster than storm?
and, why no Goblin Electromancer to run alongside/instead of Goblin Warchief?
But I've leveled off a bit lately for a few reasons, the main ones being that the decks I'm running are a bit on the slow/weak/inconsistent side, and the second one being that I have no healthy way to learn/improve, other than hoping I catch mistakes and learn from them during tournaments. I don't really have much of a playgroup, nor do I know many people who want to mentor me.
The decks I've built are Mono Green Stompy (which I just added Steel Leaf to), Mono Green Control/Land Destruction (3rd at an SCG in Feb) and Green Nykthos Devotion.
If you can't tell, I like green. But I'm not sure I think mono green is really a legitimate deck-building strategy anymore. I'd love to be proved wrong on this, but the lack of decent removal seems to be the biggest hangup.
I've looked at other decks and am a bit lost on where to start, but I know that my next deck purchase needs to be at least a Tier 2 deck, something I can feel confident in running, and know that when I lose, its because of my own lines of play, or because of a weakness in the matchup that I can work to shore up.
I know that I like good creatures, and thats something that someone else noticed about the decks I play too. The Mono Green Control deck was really fun to play as well, winning the game with no permanents on my opponents side was really gratifying, in a sadistic way.
I also know that I do NOT like control, or rather, that I don't like being controlled. I lean towards creatures that, if not just a solid creature for the curve, have an immediate effect when they enter, or are very difficult to remove/cant be countered. Card like Chameleon Colossus, Thrun, Carnage Tyrant, Dungrove Elder, Thragtusk, Primeval Titan, Hornet Queen, Craterhoof Behemoth, Tireless Tracker, etc are examples of how I like to play.
However, I also found a Bant Spirits deck that I really like, so green is by no means my only constraint. I had some fun splashing red in my Devotion deck last week as well, for Blood Moons and Kessig Wolf Run, as well as Bonfire of the Damned.
Some other decks I've looked at are Colorless Eldrazi Stompy, GR Eldrazi, Amulet Titan, GR Ponza.
Help me find a good deck to pick up?
Ok so your only point remains that Stompy isn't 5c Humans. Ever think that some of us might have fetches lying around from our other "actually good" decks? Your elitism is incredible.
You're in a Stompy thread. We like Stompy here. If you don't, then go find another thread to ***** on.
Look man, in the 1 drop slot, our options are E1, Dryad Militant, Kessig Prowler, and Narnam Renegade. E1 is an auto 4-of. All the others are a 2/1, except Narnam Renegade, which is a 2/3 with deathtouch if we can trigger revolt. Deathtouch + Rancor, another 4-of in the deck, is a nasty combo. What's the most consistent way of triggering revolt? Fetchlands.
I don't know what your predispositions are but I would submit to you that if it works, and does help to win games, then it absolutely is correct.
Excited to go back to my stompy deck for the first time in two months with fetches, Canopies, Renegades, and Steel Leaf
I'm very interested to see how Steel leaf changes the way we build our deck. Will it become an immediate 4-of? Will it make Rhonas that much stronger, or completely replace Rhonas as the more consistent creature? Do we run a more top-end heavy deck? Does ramping into Collected Company become a strong option?