Oh, my bad, my mistake was assuming the initial target gets extra spells targeting it. So if you have 9 golems and target one with a copy spell, all 9 trigger for the other 8 golems, but not the initial one. So you have 8 golems with 9 spells each, and one golem with 1 spell. So it should be 73 total spells resolving, not 81. So after the resolution of those spells, you have 73 more Precursors, each of which make 2 golems for a total of 146, plus the original 9, which is 228. Pretty sure that's my final answer. But yes, probably enough to take out 3 players at once.
I think that's it. Hilarious. Excuse me while I build this deck.
So I am not sure if my math is correct, but I think if you have Brudiclad and Precursor Golem on the field, and you manage to copy the Golem once before Brudiclads ability resolves and once after (say with Cackling Counterpart and Fated Infatuation), you can attack with 216 (8*9*3) Precursor Golems.
I think it's important to note that it's "Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery..", so it's not like the newly created Golems also get targeted when generated, which I think you're suggesting?
Beginning of combat the Myr with make 9 Precursor Golems.
Second Fated Infatuation you'll get an extra 9 Precursor Golems "enter the battlefield", and those will be creating an additional 18 Golems.
So imo there is only 18 Precursor Golems + 18 golems = 36 golems.
But that's still 108 worth of power, so semantics
Again, I may be wrong, but I think all 9 Precursor Golem tokens see the Fated Infatuation being cast and thus trigger. Hence, it gets copied 8 times per Golem ("copy it for each other Golem it could target"). Since all 9 Golems are on the battlefield when you cast the Fated Infatuation during the beginning of combat step, they do not need to trigger on the copies. They only need to trigger on the original spell being cast. My original calculation was wrong though. If I am not mistaken it goes like this (at least that's what we ended up agreeing on in the Rumor Mill thread):
1) I cast Cackling Counterpart and have 8 tokens (two Precursors and 6 tokens).
2) Enter combat, Brudiclad triggers, creating a myr and turning the myr plus all the tokens into Precursors. I now have 9 Precursor Golem.
3) I recast Cackling Counterpart (or Fated Infatuation), targeting a Precursor. Each Precursor Golem triggers, putting a copy of the spell on the stack for each other Golem. That is: the original spell, plus 8 copies (for the Golem that I targeted), plus 8*8 copies (for all the clones that trigger). This gives a total of 73 new Precursors after resolution of the copies.
4) Finally, I get two Golems per new Precursor. That gives us 146 Golem tokens, 73 Precursor Golems, and the original 9 Precursors.
5) Attack with 228 3/3 haste Golems.
Ok someone please tell me I am wrong here. If I have Brudiclad and Precursor Golem on the field, and enough mana to play Cackling Counterpart twice (once before and once after Brudiclad turns all my tokens into copies of the copied Precursor Golem), I can attack with 108 golems. If I calculated this correctly, I will need to start building this deck immediately.
I don't think this is correct: You start with 1 precurser and two tokens. You use Cackling Counterpart and get two additional tokens and one precurser wich makes two more -> you have two cursers and 6 tokens. Brudiclad turns all into precursers so you'll have 8. You cast Counterpart again to make 8 more precursers wich create 16 tokens -> you end with 16 cursers and 16 tokens
My math was indeed wrong. However I think it will be something like 216 tokens in the end. Here is how I think it works (I might be wrong though):
1) I cast Cackling Counterpart and have 8 tokens (two Precursors and 6 tokens).
2) Enter combat, Brudiclad triggers, creating a myr and turning the myr plus all the tokens into Precursors. I now have 9 Precursor Golem.
3) I recast Cackling Counterpart (or Fated Infatuation), targeting a Precursor. Each Precursor Golem triggers, putting a copy of the spell on the stack for each other Golem. That is: the original spell, plus 8 copies, plus 8*8 copies.
4) Finally, I get two Golems per copied Precursor. I end up with 9*8*3 Golems, which are 216 3/3 haste dudes.
5) Attack for the win.
Pretty sure each golem would have 9 Counterparts targeting it. Don't know where you're getting the 8*8. Precursor only triggers on a spell being cast, not on being targeted by a spell copy. So the first golem is targeted, and each of the 9 golems triggers to copy the spell for each of the other 8 golems. You get a total of 9 spells per each of the 9 golems, 81 token copies entering, each triggering and creating 2 more golems a piece, or 162. So in total, you have 252 3/3s, assuming you started this with just a single Precursor (and it's two 3/3s) getting copied precombat.
I thought each Golem only copies the spell for each other Golem, just as you said. So if you have 9 Golems you get 8 copies of the spell (plus the original spell). Hence, you have a total of 9 triggers times 8 copies each. I might be wrong though. (In any case my calculation from two posts ago was wrong again, because I forgot the original spell. It should be 219 Golems in the end. Or you are right and we get 252. In any case, we get an obscene amount of Golems that should end most games on the spot if they get to attack succesfully).
Yes, you need to be able to cast one clone spell in your combat phase. You could, however, copy the Golems in your first main with Rite of Replication instead of Cackling Counterpart, and then Cackling Counterpart them after Brudiclads trigger resolves. But that would probably violate the Geneva Convention.
I attack you with my 10 x 1/1 Warrior tokens and use Najeela, the Blade-BlossomWUBRG ability to have an additional attack and hit you with an additional 20 x 1/1 Warriors, seeing as they must attack.
.. I block two of them with my 35/35 Thantis the Warweaver...yeah I'm dead, my deck sucks.
.. I block one of them with my 13/13 Thantis the Warweaver...yeah my deck still sucks.
This kinda implies that you just slam your commander on the battlefield, no matter what the boardstate looks like.
Imo, Thantis is the kind of commander you wanna cast at the right time, just like concordant crossroads isn‘t always good but if played in the right situation, it wins you the game.
Cards like Dread or No Mercy serve you as backups, so that you‘re not the target of your opponents attacks.
Sure, they can be destroyed, but so can a lot of key cards to a lot of different strategies.
Something that lets you remove counters from a creature to ping creatures or players would be really spicy here...
Ok someone please tell me I am wrong here. If I have Brudiclad and Precursor Golem on the field, and enough mana to play Cackling Counterpart twice (once before and once after Brudiclad turns all my tokens into copies of the copied Precursor Golem), I can attack with 108 golems. If I calculated this correctly, I will need to start building this deck immediately.
I don't think this is correct: You start with 1 precurser and two tokens. You use Cackling Counterpart and get two additional tokens and one precurser wich makes two more -> you have two cursers and 6 tokens. Brudiclad turns all into precursers so you'll have 8. You cast Counterpart again to make 8 more precursers wich create 16 tokens -> you end with 16 cursers and 16 tokens
My math was indeed wrong. However I think it will be something like 216 tokens in the end. Here is how I think it works (I might be wrong though):
1) I cast Cackling Counterpart and have 8 tokens (two Precursors and 6 tokens).
2) Enter combat, Brudiclad triggers, creating a myr and turning the myr plus all the tokens into Precursors. I now have 9 Precursor Golem.
3) I recast Cackling Counterpart (or Fated Infatuation), targeting a Precursor. Each Precursor Golem triggers, putting a copy of the spell on the stack for each other Golem. That is: the original spell, plus 8 copies, plus 8*8 copies.
4) Finally, I get two Golems per copied Precursor. I end up with 9*8*3 Golems, which are 216 3/3 haste dudes.
5) Attack for the win.
I like the top-down flavor of the spider. It lures your opponents creatures into its net and then eats them.
Gameplay-wise, I think it is an interesting card. I like the "forced attacks plus shenanigans" deck trope, even if Gahiji, Honored One is probably a better commander. However, while you are lacking White's Comeuppance effects, Black does give you some interesting rattlesnake cards such as No Mercy or Dread or Ophiomancer. Certainly a commander that supports a strategy which is not super common in Jund at this point.
So I am not sure if my math is correct, but I think if you have Brudiclad and Precursor Golem on the field, and you manage to copy the Golem once before Brudiclads ability resolves and once after (say with Cackling Counterpart and Fated Infatuation), you can attack with 216 (8*9*3) Precursor Golems.
Ok someone please tell me I am wrong here. If I have Brudiclad and Precursor Golem on the field, and enough mana to play Cackling Counterpart twice (once before and once after Brudiclad turns all my tokens into copies of the copied Precursor Golem), I can attack with 108 golems. If I calculated this correctly, I will need to start building this deck immediately.
1) I cast Cackling Counterpart and have 8 tokens (two Precursors and 6 tokens).
2) Enter combat, Brudiclad triggers, creating a myr and turning the myr plus all the tokens into Precursors. I now have 9 Precursor Golem.
3) I recast Cackling Counterpart (or Fated Infatuation), targeting a Precursor. Each Precursor Golem triggers, putting a copy of the spell on the stack for each other Golem. That is: the original spell, plus 8 copies (for the Golem that I targeted), plus 8*8 copies (for all the clones that trigger). This gives a total of 73 new Precursors after resolution of the copies.
4) Finally, I get two Golems per new Precursor. That gives us 146 Golem tokens, 73 Precursor Golems, and the original 9 Precursors.
5) Attack with 228 3/3 haste Golems.
1) I cast Cackling Counterpart and have 8 tokens (two Precursors and 6 tokens).
2) Enter combat, Brudiclad triggers, creating a myr and turning the myr plus all the tokens into Precursors. I now have 9 Precursor Golem.
3) I recast Cackling Counterpart (or Fated Infatuation), targeting a Precursor. Each Precursor Golem triggers, putting a copy of the spell on the stack for each other Golem. That is: the original spell, plus 8 copies, plus 8*8 copies.
4) Finally, I get two Golems per copied Precursor. I end up with 9*8*3 Golems, which are 216 3/3 haste dudes.
5) Attack for the win.
Gameplay-wise, I think it is an interesting card. I like the "forced attacks plus shenanigans" deck trope, even if Gahiji, Honored One is probably a better commander. However, while you are lacking White's Comeuppance effects, Black does give you some interesting rattlesnake cards such as No Mercy or Dread or Ophiomancer. Certainly a commander that supports a strategy which is not super common in Jund at this point.