Updated OP with the deck I am currently testing. Blood Sun ended up being a dud, but a friend suggested Acidic Slime to help fix the upper end of the curve a bit, and it has been working great. I was finding myself wishing pretty frequently that I had more World Breakers or Oblivion Sowers because of the sheer amount of mana I had available. It turns out filling out the curve a bit more helped a lot.
The deck feels good and is a lot of fun to play, but it also feels like 3-4 control-esque cards are missing. Gonna go out on a limb and test Blood Sun in the mainboard. Going to adjust the landbase a little to compensate (more shocks), but it feels like this niche card could actually find a home here, since I can't run Blood Moon but want more land hate.
Between FNM and playtesting I've probably played more than 600 games with my Doran deck, and I would say the number of times a shuffle effect screwed me is less than 10. I have personally screwed myself with the sequencing much more than that, like fetching a land to the top and then playing a BBE.
What about Surgical are you worried about? A surgical on a fetchland in response to you putting a Doran on top with Harbinger? If so, you are worried about that precisely because you have such a hard time getting to Doran in the first place.
The reason I brought up Harbinger is you said yourself you had a game with only two lands, and you have two games where you got 6 in a row, all in the same night. This is where Harbinger helps immensely. It also allows you to run Murmuring Bosk, which alongside Harbingers comes into play untapped a lot more often than Blooming Marsh does.
I say drop the Siege Rhino (this casting cost is brutal with your landbase), the two Nyx-fleece, and a Spellskite to get the playset of Harbinger in. As for the Harbinger not doing enough if Doran is gone, this just gets back around to why you need Harbinger in the first place, so they can't keep you off of Doran or Doran like effects. If you still don't want Harbinger, at least get some Courser of Kruphix in there to smooth out your land drops.
I tried a removal heavy deck at one point, but after a while I realized that I was giving up a lot of pressure just to trade 1-for-1 with interaction. I don't think the Paths are out of place, but 3 Abrupt Decays is a lot. I would think 2-3 Paths, 1-2 Assassin's Trophy, and the single Maelstrom Pulse would hit a lot more things you would be worried about Game 1.
The mainboard Rest in Peace's would be a lot better suited as Relic of Progenitus. What do you do in Game 1's where they don't care about the GY? Just not cast it? Then it's a dead card taking up two slots. At least with Relic it is easier to cast in general, and turns into draw if you don't need it.
You're using Smiter as a bandaid. Its second ability only really works with Lili who is not run anywhere close to the degree she was when Jund was king. Inquisition and Thoughtseize don't factor in because an opponent would never choose to pitch the Smiter and just have it come into play instead. But let's say you do get it down, a 4/4 with summoning sickness isn't all that scary anymore. If it had flying or reach naturally it would be a different story, but the number of flyers that are currently played is huge compared to what it used to be. You only have 7 creatures total, including 2 Hierarchs that can attack at all without Doran or Formation. If you want the deck to not rely on him at much, you have to drastically increase that number, even if it only means through 1/X's or 2/X's. A playset of Courser's for starters.
Doran decks can't really win wars of attrition against other decks, as they get worse as time goes on, not better. The thing that makes them good is value, you're making a 5/5 for 3 that makes other value creatures 3/3's or 4/4's right after, creature that cost you almost nothing to put out, so that a single combat step threatens to kill them, whether Doran is attacking or not. Without a high creature density, your boardstate becomes just a creature or two by turn 5 or 6, and because of things like Dredge/Phoenix/Tron, most decks are running just as much removal as you are, but not at the detriment to your own deck.
Your deck is doing a lot of things a little bit. For instance you have 4 pieces of ramp, 4 pieces of hand disruption, and 7 pieces of removal. That level of redundancy means you are likely to have some games with no ramp, no hand disruption, and less rarely, games without removal. You have 3 Tower Defense, but at 19 creatures you are most likely using that on defense, since you can't guarantee Doran or Assault Formation will be out.
I don't think everyone should run a Doran deck like I do, adding red for Bolt and BBE, but my deck really punishes others that can't keep pace with the number of creatures I put out. I have a Doran on T2 often, a Doran by T3 more than 75% of the time, and if I lose that one I have the means to get that effect out again within a turn or two. The only time I've ever been kept off of every Doran and Formation was against Lantern Control. I am only able to get anywhere near that consistency because of Harbinger being at worst a big chump blocker, is also essentially a modal tutor/fetch, all for just G.
Trov, my only suggestion is that a lot of the deck's consistency relies on Treefolk Harbinger to find Doran, smooth land drops, or help color fix. Without it, the deck durdles too often with 0/X creatures on the battlefield that can at most only defend (if there are no fliers).
6 critical cards out of 60 with no tutors or extra draw is pretty rough.
So a lot of the appeal of Grudge is being able to remove two artifacts in a row, but the second cast is almost always a better cast than the first, mostly because of the cost reduction. Seal does this better by being able to offset the cost well before LMC ever comes out. Getting it down before a Blood Moon can be huge for pace, as you just sac it and go on with your business with all your mana up. It has been playtesting VERY well.
I may even up the count on Seal it is working so well. It feels like setting a trap while an opponent is watching, and still making them walk into it.
After a couple dozen hours of playtest, goldfishing, and adventures into color splashes the last few days, I've developed a new baseline for the deck. I've updated the OP decklist, and here are my comments.
Turns out new Ugin doesn't help the deck all that much, and really only does the ramping the Oblivion Sower can, but a lot more awkwardly since I can't ramp plain colorless as well as I can Eldrazi. Upped the number of new Karns to compensate for this. Not sure what the right number is, but I hardly saw it at 2x, so now to try 3x.
Got the landbase situated pretty nicely, although I miss the inclusion of the ~2 Ghost Quarters. Adding Zhalfirin Void definitely helped clean up the topdecks.
The single of Warping Wail in the MB may end up being an All Is Dust, in which case I would do a 2-of Wail in the side.
Matter Reshaper helped fill the gaps in the curve, as well as provide a little bit of CA.
Cindervines in now in place of a few instants. The fact that I can put this down before it's needed really frees up the mana turn-by-turn. I'll have to see if the split cost ends up hurting too much to run it with the current landbase.
The 1-of Phyrexian Metamorph has been awesome so far! Copying my own Thought-Knot Seer is great, and even the larger Eldrazi (unfortunately you lose the cast triggers) has worked out well. The best part is copying an opponent's key permanents (with the help of LMC), like planeswalkers. Since Metamorph is entering the battlefield as a copy of that planeswalker, it still starts at the appropriate level of loyalty counters. This has been huge when copying a Lili, Karnfather, regular Ugin, etc..
Still have a lot of playtesting and adjustments to do. I would really like to get a little more LD into the deck, even if it's just getting the GC's back (might drop some Voids), but so far it is very fun, and the most I have ever been able to use LMC.
I run 3 Doran and 3 Assault Formation, and I will be replacing 1-2 of the Assault Formations for the new Huatli.
My reasoning is this - I have used the creature pump ability of Formation a half dozen times in hundreds of games. I run BBE so cascading into a second Formation, or even hitting the first one when I already have Doran out really sucks. With Huatli, instantly healing for 3-5, and being able to do it again next turn is awesome. It doesn't matter that it costs 1 more than Formation, as Formation should only be part of your backup to Doran and not an essential part of your curve. The only other way to get consistent Game 1 lifegain in a deck like this, without diluting the creature base, is with Knight of Autumn. On top of that, having 3 ways to produce essentially the same effect means it is harder to keep you off of it. A [[Meddling Mage]] naming Doran or Formation with a Huatli or two in the deck means you aren't screwed.
As for the Grazer, that spoiler was very exciting to me. A 3/3 with Reach that can drop another dual or tri-land and cost G is fantastic. I don't know about you guys, but I run between 4-6 manadorks, and when they get bolted or Gut Shotted or whatever and it really sets me back. The fact that this can come out on T1, ready to block, and the ramp it creates doesn't die when it does, is just fantastic. My nut draws are normally 20 damage on T3, and this allows 3 damage on T2 followed by 22 on T3. Outside of the nut draws, it is just a bigger butt with a more consistent form of ramp.
I'm not sure of the effect it will have on my landbase (you need more since it isn't a traditional dork), but I will be running a playset and then working back from there.
+1: Exile the top card of your library face down and look at it. Create a 2/2 colorless Spirit creature token. When that token leaves the battlefield, put the exiled card in your hand.
-3: Destroy target permanent that is one or more colors.
Loyalty: 4
This Ugin is very fun with this deck. Reducing the cost of LMC to 0, along with helping ramp to bigger creatures. Definitely going to try out a few builds with two or more of him.
Originally I wanted to go Aura based ramp like that, but I haven't been able to find a consistent land base that had enough forests to support it and still make colorless. If I could, I think I would run that and the Temples, and not have any mana dorks, or just Arbor Elf.
A lot of the effectiveness of LMC with Karn hinges on how the game leading up to the Karn has gone, and if LMC is already on the field.
In situations where LMC is already out:
How many lands is the opponent at? More than 4? Tapping LMC each turn to kill a land is going to be too slow for us to catch back up, unless we happen to have another LMC and more removal in hand. Less than 4 lands? LMC LD is probably enough to start wearing them down and keep them off their higher CMC spells, depending on the deck.
In situations where LMC isn't already out:
I can't see where I wouldn't try to silver bullet with Karn, most likely for Lattice if I have the mana the next turn to play it, or enough pressure otherwise that it can wait. A few people had the idea of running 3 LMC main and 1 in the side so it is easier to get to and so you don't topdeck them when you don't want to as often, with the only drawback being you draw into it naturally more slowly. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Presuming we were running that though, there are instances where I would tutor for LMC, but that's only if I have artifact removal in hand and I need something gone ASAP.
All of this doesn't matter though because the Lattice is a 1-of in the side that doesn't have to be built around, so it is just a hard lock that we can grab when we want. If you Simian'd to get 4 mana to cast Karn and now you're back down to just the 3 lands, you wouldn't grab a 6 mana spell from the side that you can't cast for 3 more turns at best, you'd grab the next best thing that can help you next turn, or now.
If I had to choose between turning off all an opponents lands, including new ones that come in after that point, or being able to consistently destroy them each turn, I would pick turning them all off every single time. But I don't have to choose, so it's a moot point.
On to the rest of the deck...
So this is my...14thish... build of an LMC deck, and the thing I noticed is that in order to make running a playset of LMC not a liability (and it is a liability) is that you have to be able out value your opponents with mana investment, because you can't outvalue them by trading a card for a card. This is why I have Abrades instead of bolts. Without I would say at least 10 pieces of artifact removal, not including Karn, LMC is a dead card too often. Abrade alongside Ancient Grudge is the most removal package in the fewest amount of cards that I think is possible for a deck like this. 3 of each is 9 pieces of artifact removal and 3 creature bolts in 6 cards. Add to that a Splinter, Shrapnel Blast (another way to reduce the LMC liability), and the Phyrexian Metamorph that works both with or without LMC, and suddenly we have a bit of value.
I've tried Tron lands, but even in Monogreen it requires sixteen (not including Stirrings!) fetch effects to be consistent and generate all that infamous Tron value. This leaves far too few slots for removal to reduce the LMC liability.
I did an Eldrazi shell because not only does it allow a lot of ramp, it brings early game disruption to a deck that doesn't otherwise have it. T2 LMC into T3 Ancient Grudge isn't a strong enough play, even if you can repeat it every turn after. T1/T2 TKS into T3 Karn/LMC+removal is a much better start.
The reason for Kozilek's Return is to fight aggro, and the people that have the ability to create better boardstates before we can. Because of Devoid it can be grabbed with Stirrings. The fact that World Breaker can recast it for free feels like flipping a Thing in the Ice prior to attacking. It's great. Because of the number of Kozilek's (2-3 depending on the number of All is Dust), I also wanted some T1 ramp that wouldn't die to it, and in comes the Blisterpods. I'm still not sure if that is the correct way to go over the same amount of Birds, but in my limited playtesting of it the pace of the deck was much improved.'
Blight Herder I'm not completely sold on yet, but it has playtested pretty well. The deck exiles a lot of cards, and some decks naturally exile their own cards, so bringing two back in to get 3 extra mana is great, and it being a 4/5 at worst isn't that bad either. I've cast these on T3 pretty consistently. He may require a Relic or two in the main, but that wouldn't be too bad given the number of GY based decks I run into.
Oblivion Sower has been great, although I'm not sure what the right number of them is. Let's say I cast Crumble to Dust (can also hit with Stirrings) once, prior to casting Sower, and Sower only hits 1 land with his cast trigger. That means I can grab that land, and all the lands exiled with Crumble to Dust and put them into play untapped. I could immediately cast a Karn for that! Sower has just been great, it's just a matter of smoothing out the curve a little more.
World Breaker has been great as well, and the fact that it can hit artifacts naturally, or even kill say a potential blocker with the help of LMC, it is just all around a fun thing to play. The fact that it is cast triggers as well, and I can sac one of my (fairly) numerous lands to get it back from the GY is just icing on the cake.
I tried the idea of Darksteel Citadels and Boom/Bust's, and I think it's cool that I could put a Citadel in the side and being able to grab it with Karn for guaranteed land drops, but I am just not feeling the impact of Blood Moon at the moment, at least in my meta. This is coming off of 6 months with my Izzet LMC deck in a Blue Moon shell where I ended up moving all 3 Blood Moons to the side because the G1 impact had been so low, and I only brought the moons in every 10 games or so. I think if G/R had access to their own Flagstones of Trokair, I would be much more apt to run Boom/Bust, but if I did it now it would honestly be a 1-of for the sake of the Bust, which I think Karn/Lattice just does the job of better since it isn't symmetrical.
All in all I think LMC is something fun that lets me do cheeky sh*t while I set up for a Karn lock or a stompy beatdown, and that's exactly what I want out of it.
This is still the first week or so in the development of this version of the deck, so it could still change quite a bit as I playtest, find new cards, and with the release of Modern Horizons, but as far as my many LMC decks have gone, this Eldrazi one is the first one that I feel like could actually hang with the big boys, instead of crapping all over Affinity and then rolling over and playing dead on G2 for every other deck.
This deck is finally ticking all the boxes I wanted out of the previous revisions of the deck, which is a focus on permanent destruction and resource denial, where Liquimetal Coating isn't just an afterthought and can actually enable some pretty strong turns.
I took a lot of inspiration from Colorless Eldrazi Stompy, R/G Eldrazi, and Ponza, as well as my Izzet variation. This is my second pass at an Eldrazi/Ponza variant after trying 10+ versions and just as many color combinations over the last year and a half.
Let me know what you think, and if you have any ideas or critiques!
Thoughts about the new mulligan rule being tested at MC in London?
If something like that did actually make it to Modern, what could the deck cut/add? Does it remain relatively unchanged and simply just play better? It seems like the deck would get a lot more consistency in the early games, being able to get to Temple and Chalice easier, and Game 2 getting to sideboard cards easier.
It was mentioned that new bans would be discussed if the new mulligan rule came into effect, with a lot of people guessing at Leylines being the first to ban, and some even mentioning Serum Powder.
Hello everyone! This deck is my pride and joy, and after about two years working on it and only keeping track of the progress on TappedOut, I wanted to add it here to show more people why Ib should not be a commander that you don't take seriously.
This is the decklist I will be playtesting:
3 Matter Reshaper
2 Oblivion Sower
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 World Breaker
Instants (8)
3 Abrade
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Kozilek's Return
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Splinter
Enchantments (5)
3 Blood Sun
2 Seal of Primordium
Artifacts (4)
4 Liquimetal Coating
Planeswalker (2)
2 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Forest
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Stomping Ground
What about Surgical are you worried about? A surgical on a fetchland in response to you putting a Doran on top with Harbinger? If so, you are worried about that precisely because you have such a hard time getting to Doran in the first place.
The reason I brought up Harbinger is you said yourself you had a game with only two lands, and you have two games where you got 6 in a row, all in the same night. This is where Harbinger helps immensely. It also allows you to run Murmuring Bosk, which alongside Harbingers comes into play untapped a lot more often than Blooming Marsh does.
I say drop the Siege Rhino (this casting cost is brutal with your landbase), the two Nyx-fleece, and a Spellskite to get the playset of Harbinger in. As for the Harbinger not doing enough if Doran is gone, this just gets back around to why you need Harbinger in the first place, so they can't keep you off of Doran or Doran like effects. If you still don't want Harbinger, at least get some Courser of Kruphix in there to smooth out your land drops.
I tried a removal heavy deck at one point, but after a while I realized that I was giving up a lot of pressure just to trade 1-for-1 with interaction. I don't think the Paths are out of place, but 3 Abrupt Decays is a lot. I would think 2-3 Paths, 1-2 Assassin's Trophy, and the single Maelstrom Pulse would hit a lot more things you would be worried about Game 1.
The mainboard Rest in Peace's would be a lot better suited as Relic of Progenitus. What do you do in Game 1's where they don't care about the GY? Just not cast it? Then it's a dead card taking up two slots. At least with Relic it is easier to cast in general, and turns into draw if you don't need it.
You're using Smiter as a bandaid. Its second ability only really works with Lili who is not run anywhere close to the degree she was when Jund was king. Inquisition and Thoughtseize don't factor in because an opponent would never choose to pitch the Smiter and just have it come into play instead. But let's say you do get it down, a 4/4 with summoning sickness isn't all that scary anymore. If it had flying or reach naturally it would be a different story, but the number of flyers that are currently played is huge compared to what it used to be. You only have 7 creatures total, including 2 Hierarchs that can attack at all without Doran or Formation. If you want the deck to not rely on him at much, you have to drastically increase that number, even if it only means through 1/X's or 2/X's. A playset of Courser's for starters.
Doran decks can't really win wars of attrition against other decks, as they get worse as time goes on, not better. The thing that makes them good is value, you're making a 5/5 for 3 that makes other value creatures 3/3's or 4/4's right after, creature that cost you almost nothing to put out, so that a single combat step threatens to kill them, whether Doran is attacking or not. Without a high creature density, your boardstate becomes just a creature or two by turn 5 or 6, and because of things like Dredge/Phoenix/Tron, most decks are running just as much removal as you are, but not at the detriment to your own deck.
Your deck is doing a lot of things a little bit. For instance you have 4 pieces of ramp, 4 pieces of hand disruption, and 7 pieces of removal. That level of redundancy means you are likely to have some games with no ramp, no hand disruption, and less rarely, games without removal. You have 3 Tower Defense, but at 19 creatures you are most likely using that on defense, since you can't guarantee Doran or Assault Formation will be out.
I don't think everyone should run a Doran deck like I do, adding red for Bolt and BBE, but my deck really punishes others that can't keep pace with the number of creatures I put out. I have a Doran on T2 often, a Doran by T3 more than 75% of the time, and if I lose that one I have the means to get that effect out again within a turn or two. The only time I've ever been kept off of every Doran and Formation was against Lantern Control. I am only able to get anywhere near that consistency because of Harbinger being at worst a big chump blocker, is also essentially a modal tutor/fetch, all for just G.
6 critical cards out of 60 with no tutors or extra draw is pretty rough.
So a lot of the appeal of Grudge is being able to remove two artifacts in a row, but the second cast is almost always a better cast than the first, mostly because of the cost reduction. Seal does this better by being able to offset the cost well before LMC ever comes out. Getting it down before a Blood Moon can be huge for pace, as you just sac it and go on with your business with all your mana up. It has been playtesting VERY well.
I may even up the count on Seal it is working so well. It feels like setting a trap while an opponent is watching, and still making them walk into it.
Turns out new Ugin doesn't help the deck all that much, and really only does the ramping the Oblivion Sower can, but a lot more awkwardly since I can't ramp plain colorless as well as I can Eldrazi. Upped the number of new Karns to compensate for this. Not sure what the right number is, but I hardly saw it at 2x, so now to try 3x.
Got the landbase situated pretty nicely, although I miss the inclusion of the ~2 Ghost Quarters. Adding Zhalfirin Void definitely helped clean up the topdecks.
The single of Warping Wail in the MB may end up being an All Is Dust, in which case I would do a 2-of Wail in the side.
Matter Reshaper helped fill the gaps in the curve, as well as provide a little bit of CA.
Cindervines in now in place of a few instants. The fact that I can put this down before it's needed really frees up the mana turn-by-turn. I'll have to see if the split cost ends up hurting too much to run it with the current landbase.
The 1-of Phyrexian Metamorph has been awesome so far! Copying my own Thought-Knot Seer is great, and even the larger Eldrazi (unfortunately you lose the cast triggers) has worked out well. The best part is copying an opponent's key permanents (with the help of LMC), like planeswalkers. Since Metamorph is entering the battlefield as a copy of that planeswalker, it still starts at the appropriate level of loyalty counters. This has been huge when copying a Lili, Karnfather, regular Ugin, etc..
Still have a lot of playtesting and adjustments to do. I would really like to get a little more LD into the deck, even if it's just getting the GC's back (might drop some Voids), but so far it is very fun, and the most I have ever been able to use LMC.
Let me know if you have any thoughts!
My reasoning is this - I have used the creature pump ability of Formation a half dozen times in hundreds of games. I run BBE so cascading into a second Formation, or even hitting the first one when I already have Doran out really sucks. With Huatli, instantly healing for 3-5, and being able to do it again next turn is awesome. It doesn't matter that it costs 1 more than Formation, as Formation should only be part of your backup to Doran and not an essential part of your curve. The only other way to get consistent Game 1 lifegain in a deck like this, without diluting the creature base, is with Knight of Autumn. On top of that, having 3 ways to produce essentially the same effect means it is harder to keep you off of it. A [[Meddling Mage]] naming Doran or Formation with a Huatli or two in the deck means you aren't screwed.
As for the Grazer, that spoiler was very exciting to me. A 3/3 with Reach that can drop another dual or tri-land and cost G is fantastic. I don't know about you guys, but I run between 4-6 manadorks, and when they get bolted or Gut Shotted or whatever and it really sets me back. The fact that this can come out on T1, ready to block, and the ramp it creates doesn't die when it does, is just fantastic. My nut draws are normally 20 damage on T3, and this allows 3 damage on T2 followed by 22 on T3. Outside of the nut draws, it is just a bigger butt with a more consistent form of ramp.
I'm not sure of the effect it will have on my landbase (you need more since it isn't a traditional dork), but I will be running a playset and then working back from there.
Ugin, the Unspeakable
Colorless spells you cast cost 2 less.
+1: Exile the top card of your library face down and look at it. Create a 2/2 colorless Spirit creature token. When that token leaves the battlefield, put the exiled card in your hand.
-3: Destroy target permanent that is one or more colors.
Loyalty: 4
This Ugin is very fun with this deck. Reducing the cost of LMC to 0, along with helping ramp to bigger creatures. Definitely going to try out a few builds with two or more of him.
In situations where LMC is already out:
How many lands is the opponent at? More than 4? Tapping LMC each turn to kill a land is going to be too slow for us to catch back up, unless we happen to have another LMC and more removal in hand. Less than 4 lands? LMC LD is probably enough to start wearing them down and keep them off their higher CMC spells, depending on the deck.
In situations where LMC isn't already out:
I can't see where I wouldn't try to silver bullet with Karn, most likely for Lattice if I have the mana the next turn to play it, or enough pressure otherwise that it can wait. A few people had the idea of running 3 LMC main and 1 in the side so it is easier to get to and so you don't topdeck them when you don't want to as often, with the only drawback being you draw into it naturally more slowly. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Presuming we were running that though, there are instances where I would tutor for LMC, but that's only if I have artifact removal in hand and I need something gone ASAP.
All of this doesn't matter though because the Lattice is a 1-of in the side that doesn't have to be built around, so it is just a hard lock that we can grab when we want. If you Simian'd to get 4 mana to cast Karn and now you're back down to just the 3 lands, you wouldn't grab a 6 mana spell from the side that you can't cast for 3 more turns at best, you'd grab the next best thing that can help you next turn, or now.
If I had to choose between turning off all an opponents lands, including new ones that come in after that point, or being able to consistently destroy them each turn, I would pick turning them all off every single time. But I don't have to choose, so it's a moot point.
On to the rest of the deck...
So this is my...14thish... build of an LMC deck, and the thing I noticed is that in order to make running a playset of LMC not a liability (and it is a liability) is that you have to be able out value your opponents with mana investment, because you can't outvalue them by trading a card for a card. This is why I have Abrades instead of bolts. Without I would say at least 10 pieces of artifact removal, not including Karn, LMC is a dead card too often. Abrade alongside Ancient Grudge is the most removal package in the fewest amount of cards that I think is possible for a deck like this. 3 of each is 9 pieces of artifact removal and 3 creature bolts in 6 cards. Add to that a Splinter, Shrapnel Blast (another way to reduce the LMC liability), and the Phyrexian Metamorph that works both with or without LMC, and suddenly we have a bit of value.
I've tried Tron lands, but even in Monogreen it requires sixteen (not including Stirrings!) fetch effects to be consistent and generate all that infamous Tron value. This leaves far too few slots for removal to reduce the LMC liability.
I did an Eldrazi shell because not only does it allow a lot of ramp, it brings early game disruption to a deck that doesn't otherwise have it. T2 LMC into T3 Ancient Grudge isn't a strong enough play, even if you can repeat it every turn after. T1/T2 TKS into T3 Karn/LMC+removal is a much better start.
The reason for Kozilek's Return is to fight aggro, and the people that have the ability to create better boardstates before we can. Because of Devoid it can be grabbed with Stirrings. The fact that World Breaker can recast it for free feels like flipping a Thing in the Ice prior to attacking. It's great. Because of the number of Kozilek's (2-3 depending on the number of All is Dust), I also wanted some T1 ramp that wouldn't die to it, and in comes the Blisterpods. I'm still not sure if that is the correct way to go over the same amount of Birds, but in my limited playtesting of it the pace of the deck was much improved.'
Blight Herder I'm not completely sold on yet, but it has playtested pretty well. The deck exiles a lot of cards, and some decks naturally exile their own cards, so bringing two back in to get 3 extra mana is great, and it being a 4/5 at worst isn't that bad either. I've cast these on T3 pretty consistently. He may require a Relic or two in the main, but that wouldn't be too bad given the number of GY based decks I run into.
Oblivion Sower has been great, although I'm not sure what the right number of them is. Let's say I cast Crumble to Dust (can also hit with Stirrings) once, prior to casting Sower, and Sower only hits 1 land with his cast trigger. That means I can grab that land, and all the lands exiled with Crumble to Dust and put them into play untapped. I could immediately cast a Karn for that! Sower has just been great, it's just a matter of smoothing out the curve a little more.
World Breaker has been great as well, and the fact that it can hit artifacts naturally, or even kill say a potential blocker with the help of LMC, it is just all around a fun thing to play. The fact that it is cast triggers as well, and I can sac one of my (fairly) numerous lands to get it back from the GY is just icing on the cake.
I tried the idea of Darksteel Citadels and Boom/Bust's, and I think it's cool that I could put a Citadel in the side and being able to grab it with Karn for guaranteed land drops, but I am just not feeling the impact of Blood Moon at the moment, at least in my meta. This is coming off of 6 months with my Izzet LMC deck in a Blue Moon shell where I ended up moving all 3 Blood Moons to the side because the G1 impact had been so low, and I only brought the moons in every 10 games or so. I think if G/R had access to their own Flagstones of Trokair, I would be much more apt to run Boom/Bust, but if I did it now it would honestly be a 1-of for the sake of the Bust, which I think Karn/Lattice just does the job of better since it isn't symmetrical.
All in all I think LMC is something fun that lets me do cheeky sh*t while I set up for a Karn lock or a stompy beatdown, and that's exactly what I want out of it.
This is still the first week or so in the development of this version of the deck, so it could still change quite a bit as I playtest, find new cards, and with the release of Modern Horizons, but as far as my many LMC decks have gone, this Eldrazi one is the first one that I feel like could actually hang with the big boys, instead of crapping all over Affinity and then rolling over and playing dead on G2 for every other deck.
So I've been working on a Liquimetal Coating deck for a long time, and I've developed my best version yet thanks to a total revamp and the new..
2 Acidic Slime
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Oblivion Sower
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 World Breaker
Instants (7)
3 Abrade
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Beast Within
2 Kozilek's Return
Sorceries (7)
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Splinter
2 Seal of Primordium
Artifacts (4)
4 Liquimetal Coating
Planeswalker (3)
3 Karn, the Great Creator
Lands (21)
2 Blast Zone
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
2 Stomping Ground
1 All Is Dust
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Guttural Response
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Orbs of Warding
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Warping Wail
1 Wurmcoil Engine
You can also check the deck out on TappedOut if you like: Ponzi Scheme [Eldrazi-Ponza]
This deck is finally ticking all the boxes I wanted out of the previous revisions of the deck, which is a focus on permanent destruction and resource denial, where Liquimetal Coating isn't just an afterthought and can actually enable some pretty strong turns.
I took a lot of inspiration from Colorless Eldrazi Stompy, R/G Eldrazi, and Ponza, as well as my Izzet variation. This is my second pass at an Eldrazi/Ponza variant after trying 10+ versions and just as many color combinations over the last year and a half.
Let me know what you think, and if you have any ideas or critiques!
If something like that did actually make it to Modern, what could the deck cut/add? Does it remain relatively unchanged and simply just play better? It seems like the deck would get a lot more consistency in the early games, being able to get to Temple and Chalice easier, and Game 2 getting to sideboard cards easier.
It was mentioned that new bans would be discussed if the new mulligan rule came into effect, with a lot of people guessing at Leylines being the first to ban, and some even mentioning Serum Powder.
Hello everyone! This deck is my pride and joy, and after about two years working on it and only keeping track of the progress on TappedOut, I wanted to add it here to show more people why Ib should not be a commander that you don't take seriously.
You can find a detailed primer, an extensive comment history, as well as individual card explanations here:
Ib Halfheart, Goblin Sac-tician (TappedOut Primer)
I will be slowly converting the information from that primer to another one in this thread, so I can eventually apply for a [Primer] tag on this deck.
Here is the most recent decklist:
1x Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician
Creatures (24)
1x Beetleback Chief
1x Burnished Hart
1x Dark-Dweller Oracle
1x Goblin Assassin
1x Goblin Chieftain
1x Goblin Chirurgeon
1x Goblin Goliath
1x Goblin King
1x Goblin Lackey
1x Goblin Matron
1x Goblin Recruiter
1x Goblin Sledder
1x Goblin Trashmaster
1x Goblin Warchief
1x Goblin Welder
1x Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Moggcatcher
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Skirk Prospector
1x Soul-Scar Mage
1x Warren Instigator
Artifacts (14)
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Illusionist's Bracers
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mana Crypt
1x Memory Jar
1x Nemesis Mask
1x Phyrexian Altar
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Surveyor's Scope
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Sword of the Animist
1x Blood Moon
1x Experimental Frenzy
1x Fervor
1x Glacial Crevasses
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Impact Tremors
1x Outpost Siege
1x Raid Bombardment
1x Repercussion
1x Shared Animosity
1x Stolen Strategy
Instants (6)
1x Chaos Warp
1x Commune with Lava
1x Fork
1x Massive Raid
1x Price of Progress
1x Reverberate
Sorceries (10)
1x Acidic Soil
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Disrupt Decorum
1x Faithless Looting
1x Goblin War Strike
1x Insult
1x Light Up the Stage
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Mogg Infestation
1x Vandalblast
1x Daretti, Scrap Savant
Lands (33)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Buried Ruin
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Great Furnace
1x Isolated Watchtower
1x Madblind Mountain
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
23x Snow-Covered Mountain
1x Wooded Foothills
There are a ton of unique interactions, and odd card inclusions, so if you have any questions, suggestions, or criticisms, please comment!
Enjoy!