Green ability is obviously an allstar vs. Reanimate strategies or even vs. Dredge. It also shrinks Goyfs if there are few creatures in graveyards.
Gaining Life is just icing on the cake. 2 dmg to opponent is obviously nice, but more often than not, its about controlling what people got access to in their graveyard.
I wish it could remove artifacts and enchantments from graveyards too, to combat recurring Deeds, Explosives, Wurmcoils etc.
Did some casual gaming yesterday (wasn't able to attend our monthly tournament this time) with Steppe Lynx build, and was quite happy with its performance.
Only concern I got with Lynx and Grunt build is that 8 of 12 creatures are white.
I've noticed the same trend in Vintage as the OP, and I'm a bit concerned to be honest. I like that Vintage is a different format than Legacy.
And I miss the days of Control Slaver and Drain Tendrils in Vintage. Slow graveyard strategies (i.e. Control Slaver) isn't viable in the format anymore because of the cards available in the card pool, and even storm decks are starting to get hated out in the sense that they are almost not seeing any play. Its all about Prison strategies or control strategies that win via unlimited turns killing with 2/1's or Jace 2.0.
Legacy is IMO getting a bit more unfair as well. If you don't got the "proper" answer in your hand or top-deck (even if its in your deck), you just lose no matter what, especially to combo decks such as Show and Tell and or Reanimator (to some extent).
At least in vintage, you'll more than likely to have the opportunity to find that particular answer. But again, Vintage decks now days don't even bother packing silver-bullets to answer certain decks MD anymore as they more or less just focusing on finding Vault/key combo and winning the counter war.
Both formats evolve obviously, and personally I'm a bit disappointed with whats happening with Vintage (especially). I wish there were more tutors available in Legacy, tutors have the traits to change how we build our decks for the better (or worse) and it makes MTG more fun to play (IMO).
If you are going with Factories as well, try 2 copies of Elspeth, Knight-Errant. I really like her in combo with Liliana as our planeswalker of choice.
Elspeth just gives the deck a faster clock after you've wrecked opponents hand, dropping her down with a factory in play will just up your chances of winning before they mange to stabalize or top-deck a bomb against you.
I've done some changes to the build, and that is simply to swap Spell Pierces with Flusterstorms.
Fire//Ice could also be changed to Izzet Charm if you prefere. The Draw 2, discard 2 can also help to fuel your own graveyard for Grunts as well as dig for relevant cards (which is good). And it gives you a back-up spell pierce since the original has been swapped with Flusterstorms.
Spell Pierce/Snare can go into the board for non-instant/sorcery permission if needed.
I might try this build this weekend. I'll post some updates if I do.
Thanks for the report, didn't really see much data with regards to how Elemental was functioning but interesting read none the less.
I feel that UBR should have a good and decent MU vs Show and Tell decks right now, but you never know when they manage to push through one of their spells which will just win them the game for them. You can have all the control in the game, but then they just play something with double (or more) counter back up, and once that creature lands, its hard for us to regroup, or get rid of it.
The shell/skeleton of the deck (as with most tempo) are very rugged and tight. We usually run somewhere between 10-14 creatures, although you rarely see the number exceed 12.
My "general" rule of this is if my creatures are small, I use 12(+). If some of my creature(s) have some sort of board presence e.g. Tombstalker, I can allow myself to drop down to 10.
Another "general" rule is to run at least 12 permission spells (counter magic). Usually 4x Force of Will is a given, then you got your choice of 1cc permission which is most likely going to be Spell Pierce or Spell Snare (or a mix) (1cc discard can also be in this slot). Then you have Daze. If you're really short on card-slots, you could try to run 3x Fow, 3x Daze + 4x Spell Pierce/Snare. I could recommend this set-up if you're in a creature heavy meta for example, then you can use the extra room for creature-removals.
Stifle is IMO a very important card for us to run. In decks that tries to have a more longer game-plan, I would be tempted to swap Stifle for something else, for example Thoughtseize, or Hymn to Tourach. You could try to do this swap in the 18-land builds as well, depending on your meta-game. If stifle has lost some of its mojo in your meta-game, then don't hesitate to try out new things in its place.
I can't say I have tested out Sinkhole in the deck, but my gut says no. I'd rather use Hymn to Tourach. Often you will hit a land from their hand with it anyway and its a 2 for 1 which we really need more of really in this deck.
I would recommend to at least drop 1 land (if I counted correctly, you are currently playing 20). When playing with Snapcaster Mage or Tombstalker, I would want 19 land. You can get a way with 18, but you just have to figure it out what you prefere. Bob helps out a lot in terms of land-drops so it might be ok to run 18 land, 4 Bob and 2 Tiago (or a 3/3 split between the two).
EDIT: If I may make a suggestion.
@nevilshute: @jlm02a3094: Perhaps each of you could write a more in-depth review on the different builds that you guys are currently playing with (i.e. Nivmagus Elemental build and Vexing Devil build)? Would be interesting to see match-up reports (from either tournament or playtesting) as well as some in-game-strategies. Obviously these builds have different sets of tricks
I will try to write a complete update to the primer meanwhile.
I really like Daze in the 18-land builds. Even though players learn how to play around Daze, its still a card that will provide tempo and protect your creatures, even for just a small window of a time. Getting that 1 attack phase with your creature(s) or that one turn with card-draw from Bob etc. A play that won me a game last tournament was the decision to Daze my opponents turn 1 Ponder (against RUG). This might seem like a minor play but it did enough to win me that game (believe it or not). My opponent did the same move on me the following game and prevented my game-plan just the same.
We also have to remember that the longer the game goes on, the less likely our chances of winning will be as well. We are not a deck that can control the board once they get through our counter magic. We can deal with creatures to a certain extent, and we are pretty good at racing for damage, but we cannon deal with resolved non-creature permanents.
It is therefore important to be aware of our limitations and prioritize counter spells accordingly. I'm very tempted to splash green for Abrupt Decay (which would solve some of our concerns), but then we might as well play BUG Tempo. On the other hand, red is a really great color for this type of deck IMO, as it provides us with reach and access to blasts vs. blue decks, so that will be hard to let go. Green gives us solid Goyf, Decay and ways to deal with enchantments which is also nice.
I don't think 4 color mana base is an option with all the wasteland/stifle around. It might be possible if mana-denial is not as widespread in the meta-game, and it might be worth a shot none the less.
@nevilshute: You're probably right about the number of Nivmagus Elementals. Still need to test a bit more (personally) to decide if the elemental (and Flusterstorm) ultimately deserves their place in the deck at the moment.
Re: Vexing Devil: Lot of people have written of this guy, but I think both Devil and Elemental (as I've been looking for a good 2nd 1-drop creature to fit the deck) has some potential. Obviously they each need a certain push/support in order to work properly, and IMO Devil needs Unearth, Snapcaster Mage and probably a couple of Vendilion Cliques as well.
Gaining Life is just icing on the cake. 2 dmg to opponent is obviously nice, but more often than not, its about controlling what people got access to in their graveyard.
I wish it could remove artifacts and enchantments from graveyards too, to combat recurring Deeds, Explosives, Wurmcoils etc.
I'm currently tinkering on a build with a green splash for MD Deathrite Shaman.
Only concern I got with Lynx and Grunt build is that 8 of 12 creatures are white.
Need more time with Nivmagus Elemental.
I've noticed the same trend in Vintage as the OP, and I'm a bit concerned to be honest. I like that Vintage is a different format than Legacy.
And I miss the days of Control Slaver and Drain Tendrils in Vintage. Slow graveyard strategies (i.e. Control Slaver) isn't viable in the format anymore because of the cards available in the card pool, and even storm decks are starting to get hated out in the sense that they are almost not seeing any play. Its all about Prison strategies or control strategies that win via unlimited turns killing with 2/1's or Jace 2.0.
Legacy is IMO getting a bit more unfair as well. If you don't got the "proper" answer in your hand or top-deck (even if its in your deck), you just lose no matter what, especially to combo decks such as Show and Tell and or Reanimator (to some extent).
At least in vintage, you'll more than likely to have the opportunity to find that particular answer. But again, Vintage decks now days don't even bother packing silver-bullets to answer certain decks MD anymore as they more or less just focusing on finding Vault/key combo and winning the counter war.
Both formats evolve obviously, and personally I'm a bit disappointed with whats happening with Vintage (especially). I wish there were more tutors available in Legacy, tutors have the traits to change how we build our decks for the better (or worse) and it makes MTG more fun to play (IMO).
If you are going with Factories as well, try 2 copies of Elspeth, Knight-Errant. I really like her in combo with Liliana as our planeswalker of choice.
Elspeth just gives the deck a faster clock after you've wrecked opponents hand, dropping her down with a factory in play will just up your chances of winning before they mange to stabalize or top-deck a bomb against you.
You could consider running Perish and/or Dread of Night in your sideboard vs. Maveric.
Keep us updated on your progress!
D3@D
Fire//Ice could also be changed to Izzet Charm if you prefere. The Draw 2, discard 2 can also help to fuel your own graveyard for Grunts as well as dig for relevant cards (which is good). And it gives you a back-up spell pierce since the original has been swapped with Flusterstorms.
Spell Pierce/Snare can go into the board for non-instant/sorcery permission if needed.
I might try this build this weekend. I'll post some updates if I do.
Sounds like you had a good shot at going all the way if you would have tried
I feel that UBR should have a good and decent MU vs Show and Tell decks right now, but you never know when they manage to push through one of their spells which will just win them the game for them. You can have all the control in the game, but then they just play something with double (or more) counter back up, and once that creature lands, its hard for us to regroup, or get rid of it.
Primer has been updated (not done entirely,but its a start).
My "general" rule of this is if my creatures are small, I use 12(+). If some of my creature(s) have some sort of board presence e.g. Tombstalker, I can allow myself to drop down to 10.
Another "general" rule is to run at least 12 permission spells (counter magic). Usually 4x Force of Will is a given, then you got your choice of 1cc permission which is most likely going to be Spell Pierce or Spell Snare (or a mix) (1cc discard can also be in this slot). Then you have Daze. If you're really short on card-slots, you could try to run 3x Fow, 3x Daze + 4x Spell Pierce/Snare. I could recommend this set-up if you're in a creature heavy meta for example, then you can use the extra room for creature-removals.
Stifle is IMO a very important card for us to run. In decks that tries to have a more longer game-plan, I would be tempted to swap Stifle for something else, for example Thoughtseize, or Hymn to Tourach. You could try to do this swap in the 18-land builds as well, depending on your meta-game. If stifle has lost some of its mojo in your meta-game, then don't hesitate to try out new things in its place.
I can't say I have tested out Sinkhole in the deck, but my gut says no. I'd rather use Hymn to Tourach. Often you will hit a land from their hand with it anyway and its a 2 for 1 which we really need more of really in this deck.
I would recommend to at least drop 1 land (if I counted correctly, you are currently playing 20). When playing with Snapcaster Mage or Tombstalker, I would want 19 land. You can get a way with 18, but you just have to figure it out what you prefere. Bob helps out a lot in terms of land-drops so it might be ok to run 18 land, 4 Bob and 2 Tiago (or a 3/3 split between the two).
EDIT: If I may make a suggestion.
@nevilshute: @jlm02a3094: Perhaps each of you could write a more in-depth review on the different builds that you guys are currently playing with (i.e. Nivmagus Elemental build and Vexing Devil build)? Would be interesting to see match-up reports (from either tournament or playtesting) as well as some in-game-strategies. Obviously these builds have different sets of tricks
I will try to write a complete update to the primer meanwhile.
We also have to remember that the longer the game goes on, the less likely our chances of winning will be as well. We are not a deck that can control the board once they get through our counter magic. We can deal with creatures to a certain extent, and we are pretty good at racing for damage, but we cannon deal with resolved non-creature permanents.
It is therefore important to be aware of our limitations and prioritize counter spells accordingly. I'm very tempted to splash green for Abrupt Decay (which would solve some of our concerns), but then we might as well play BUG Tempo. On the other hand, red is a really great color for this type of deck IMO, as it provides us with reach and access to blasts vs. blue decks, so that will be hard to let go. Green gives us solid Goyf, Decay and ways to deal with enchantments which is also nice.
I don't think 4 color mana base is an option with all the wasteland/stifle around. It might be possible if mana-denial is not as widespread in the meta-game, and it might be worth a shot none the less.
Re: Vexing Devil: Lot of people have written of this guy, but I think both Devil and Elemental (as I've been looking for a good 2nd 1-drop creature to fit the deck) has some potential. Obviously they each need a certain push/support in order to work properly, and IMO Devil needs Unearth, Snapcaster Mage and probably a couple of Vendilion Cliques as well.