That is an extremely large amount of mana. It is certainly something worth testing in certain decks (as arrogantAxolotl said it has never been done before...)
As an aside, it also can become infinitely large with with Umbral Mantle (not sure that has been pointed out yet anywhere...I’ve just played umbral mantle decks in the past with things like Karametra’s Acolyte so I instantly thought of it
The infinite combo is pretty sweet, but without trample all it takes is 1 creature from the opponent to stop the kill.
Welcome @Jiidari. I totally agree with your argumentation why, although a sweet card, Llanowar Tribe is not exactly what most of our builds are looking for. The 3 drop slot is crammed with amazing creatures and as you pointed out that's where we start to get our payoff for our dorks by being able to play them turn 2 and get quicker value.
With the heavy snow theme I think you might be on to something. Making the land enchantment snow specific would hurt us a little, on one hand we want to enchant our basics anyway on the other hand if you have a starting hand with Nykthos, Stomping Ground and a snow utopia sprawl it would be problematic. But lets just wait what they will do.
Seeing that they're down to print green heavy cards like Ayula's Influence and Llanowar Tribe really makes me hopeful for something like: GG
enters the battlefield draw a card
/enters the battlefield search library for a land card put it into your hand.
Hi there, So I've been a long time lurker of this primer Like year and a half. since I decided I wanted to play the best damn big mana deck ever and I can honestly say that green devotion is probably the most fun deck I've played. It just feels super satisfying to play and when it has some nut hands feels really unfair vs decks that it can just go over top of. I've been trying to really streamline a Summoner's Pact List for a while but Im not entirely sure if it can be done, I think we are missing just a couple of really good interaction creatures in order to effectively run a Silver bullet list. This is the current deck list I've been tinkering with.
So far I've enjoyed this list but I feel Im lacking interaction. I've also cut Primal Command & Eternal Witness honestly because during play they are really good cards but something needed to be trimmed out to make the list 60, not sure if it was the right call considering it is probably the best interaction we have but with both kiora and gurrak I've no had any problems with generating the mana to make a turn 4 bullet happen. actually had a game where it went as followed
T1: Breeding Pool + Arbor Elf
T2: Forest tap cast Utopia Sprawl tap out for 4 with 2u 2g, play Kiora, Master of the Depths use her +1 cast Garruk Wildspeaker +1 Into Steel Leaf Champion
T3: PLay Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx tap out for 14 mana using Kiora +1' into Chorded Craterhoof Behemoth and then Ulted Garruk Wildspeaker For metric crapton of damages.
So Im very much enjoying the ramp portion of this deck even with only 1 dork and a sprawl Im just wanting to see what you guys think about it. I also needed to run Chord of Calling for instant speed and can pull Creature cards not just green for Wurmcoil. But what you guys think.
I like how you brought your own flavor into the deck. I think it's well made, but I do have some questions/inputs:
Scavenging Ooze in the mainboard. Packing mainboard graveyard hate is vital in a bullet list imo.
Eternal Witness: You took it out as part of the Primal Command softlock packet, but as a 1 of it can be a great tutor target if your 1-of bullet gets discarded or countered.
What an awesome nut draw you had. Making 11 mana on turn 2 isn't normal, but on green devotion it is ;).
P.S. my current deck is mono-green. Should I run a 1-of Blast Zone as potential removal (given I have many ways to put counters on it, untap it, and use it in the same turn)?
I don't think Blast Zone is worth it. It's tutorable with Primeval Titan but we are so dependant on T1 untapped green source, that even running 4 Nykthos is hard sometimes. Especially since we're running only 20-21 lands.
As you mentioned we can get the most of it with all the untapping and extra mana. My estimation is that the downside of having to play an additional colorless land is not worth the potential upside.
Very interesting Discussion on the new 3 drop walkers, excited to test them out.
@Gruulmeharder: Couldn't agree more on the interaction part. We are slower than the best linear decks in modern, that means we have to pack some sort of interaction to buy us the extra time we need to set up. Primal Command had pretty much exactly this purpose, buying us another turn against many decks in the format.
Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner: With her we can pretty consistently go:
T1: Land, Utopia Sprawl/Arbor Elf/Wild Growth (gogo MH;))
T2: Land and best case another Ramp on a forest, play kiora, untap the double enchanted land into another 3 drop.
T3: Very high chance to make 5+ Mana
Domri, Anarch of Bolas If a list includes Kiora and plays strong creatures to maximize her synergy he provides the removal while still being a good T2 play on its own as he provides additional ramp, compared to Domri Rade
Will definetely return to devotion when the new set comes out, trying to maximize the synergy of the new cards. Going to post a list later this week, including the new cards.
@curdbros, is there a reason you write Grull instead of Gruul? ^^
Sweet Deck GurmagAngler. Flame Slash is a good meta call when you have tons of Phoenix, i would suggest Raking Canopy in the SB if you want more answers for that deck.
When it comes to midrange I always played GB Devotion which gives you Vraska's and fatal push/Abrupt decay/ass trophy which also works against Death's Shadow or a flipped TiTi.
Any particular Reason why you're running 0 copies of Oath of Nissa?
My experience with bloodbrad is not that positive. There's always the chance to hit a ramp spell, in comparison to Jund. doesnt provide significant devotion or other synergies. Obviously always feels great casting it T2, but personally I didn't like him in the devotion archetype.
Holding out hope for some sweet toys in Modern Horizons. I'm 95% sure that Wild Growth will be included so that will be a nice upgrade. I can see the core ramp suite to be 4x Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl/Wild Growth, cutting birds. That will be more resistant to interaction thankfully.
Cheers
I'm really hopeful for Wild Growth as well. What lead you to be 95% sure it will in MH?
The only other deck besides green devotion variations that would benefit from it is Ponza I think.
The challenger decks have Jadelight Ranger, which should make it super affordable. I have become a huge fan of the card. It does exactly what we need in a "fair" ramp deck (by that I mean we play tons of cards devoted to ramping instead of e.g. tron). We always struggle to get the payoff at the right moment.
CMC 3 and GG makes it one of the best T2 plays, setting up T3 nicely. Being able to put Primal Commands/Summoner's pact/T&N on top, something which Oath misses. We discussed the card back when it was released. Did anyone gather some more experience with her?
Some really cool cards against flyers. I did not know about Scryb Ranger, syngerizes nicely with Landfall creatures.
Just wanted to add Avatar of the Resolute as a good option against flyers. Synergizes well with Scavenging Ooze, which seems like a maindeckable card in the current competitive meta.
Excited for the new primer, thanks for all your work curdbros.
The new Vraska looks great. I have been playing with Vraska the Unseen quite a bit and loved the interaction it supplied.
Now there's an additional CMC 4 Planesewalker besides Garruk Relentless to interact with not only creatures but all CMC 3 and lower permaments.
I hope there wont be a big standard demand that drives prices up. I will definately go back to my GB Walker list.
On Reddit everyone dismisses her because all they see is a T4 play in BGx midrange decks. We can reliably cast her T3 and sometimes T2 while spamming the board with resilient creatures.
Thanks.
Sadly, Garruk Relentless is not an efficient tutor like Primal Command, Pact or Chord. He can be pretty bad against creatureless (e.g. ad nauseam, hard control) and very big creatures like ETron. The Tutor side cannot be achieved every time, it's more like a bonus. Sometimes I had to kill my own arbor elf to get him to flip (vs UW control). Getting to sac Plant Tokens for his tutor feels great though. Remember, he does not threaten an ultimate and is in bolt range all the time. However spamming 2/2 Wolfs is not that bad either and goes well with the Garruk Wildspeaker/ Nissa +1/+1 counter / Craterhoof overrun plan.
The consistency of the deck is at a good place and I would say that adding Bolts/Abrades/Beast Withins (or any strong non creature/walker card) is meta dependant and hard to answer in general (as some number will be in the 75 anyway). My Decklist is incomplete with the sideboard, as we really should be looking at 75 cards.
I still think Oath of Nissa is the strongest card printed for devotion in the past sets and I want to maximize its efficacy.
On the play a T2 Nissa VOZ into a T3 Garruk Relentless is pretty sweet and hard to deal with for many decks.
I think that this sort of Walker heavy deck needs some form of interaction to stand a chance against decks like humans. Red opens up Chandra and great sideboard options.
I don't play Courser in here because I need the resiliency of Kitchen finks to protect the walkers.
You are right that Courser usually shines in a deck with fetches and Primeval Titans, but I rather fill up the board with finks because they synergise well with Nissa VOZ and the recurring blocking protection to get the planeswalker value train rolling.
I have some questions about sideboarding. I usually sideboard the Oaths of Nissa out in most games, specially when I want to hit Abrade, Bolt or Relic. Would you guys consider that a good practice?
As I wrote couple pages back, I do the same and I think it makes a lot of sense. Game 1 I want the Oaths to get my gameplan working with maximum consistency while in G2 I hope for my sideboard cards to mess with the opponent's gameplay, leaving aside some of the main gameplan for some devastating cards like bloodmoon or just more interaction.
I've given playing that cremator deck a try and there is some strategy to it that I like, but i've never really played with a evolution centered list.
I think Eldritch Evolution shines in a Kiki-Jiki centered combo deck stuffed with other value creatures. I wasn't a fan of it in most devotion decks without any combos. Pairs nice with Kitchen Finks and Strangleroot Geist but is just horrific against Remand and the likes. You have become known for some pretty out there cards, give it a go and see if you can come up with something busted.
Been playing this GR version for the past couple of weeks in paper. Thinking about investing into mtgo
The key thing everyone needs to consider is that when expecting a highly interact meta, build for consistency. Oath of Nissa, Jadelight Ranger, Tireless Tracker...all of these help in that respect.
The meta right now is full of interactive, highly disruptive opponents. A devotion deck that is explosive when the opponent does nothing to stop it but full of individually weak cards otherwise will not see much in the way of success.
This deck is built to grind, more of a midrange deck with a combo finish than a true combo deck, which i think is a better choice right now. Kitchen Finks was the last piece of the main deck to fall into place, and it has been fantastic. It hits hard, blocks very well, and gains life, all while coming down on turn 2 and adding 2 devotion that isn't easy to get rid of. Resetting it with Nissa's -1 is game-winning against certain decks.
Ill post here about how the GP goes, and if my theories hold any water.
So i know i don't really participate in the discussions here except when tooth and nail comes up. I just don't have time or money IRL to explore too much of the different versions/iterations of the deck. That said, even if I'm a bit of a lurker, discussions here have really helped me get off the ground. I've only been playing Magic for a few years and I'm going to my first GP.
Thanks all of you all for being here, this thread is cool.
A well built list. Going for the max. 12 Ramp cards and high impact 3 drops. Walking Ballista for Interaction. I like it a lot.
I have been going to 4x Tireless Tracker as well in my list, have been advocating the card for grindier versions of the deck. I do think it's the best card advantage engine we can play right now.
Congratulations for your results so far. Hollow one is almost a coin flip deck, not much you can do when they run well.
Well played and good luck going forward, we're rooting for you!
Here is an updated versions of my GB Walker List:
Pretty Sure I should put Primeval Titans back in there and needs some more streamlining in the top end threats.
The infinite combo is pretty sweet, but without trample all it takes is 1 creature from the opponent to stop the kill.
Welcome @Jiidari. I totally agree with your argumentation why, although a sweet card, Llanowar Tribe is not exactly what most of our builds are looking for. The 3 drop slot is crammed with amazing creatures and as you pointed out that's where we start to get our payoff for our dorks by being able to play them turn 2 and get quicker value.
With the heavy snow theme I think you might be on to something. Making the land enchantment snow specific would hurt us a little, on one hand we want to enchant our basics anyway on the other hand if you have a starting hand with Nykthos, Stomping Ground and a snow utopia sprawl it would be problematic. But lets just wait what they will do.
Seeing that they're down to print green heavy cards like Ayula's Influence and Llanowar Tribe really makes me hopeful for something like:
GG
enters the battlefield draw a card
/enters the battlefield search library for a land card put it into your hand.
What do the T&N players think about LLanowar Tribe? Better that Overgrowth?
I like how you brought your own flavor into the deck. I think it's well made, but I do have some questions/inputs:
What an awesome nut draw you had. Making 11 mana on turn 2 isn't normal, but on green devotion it is ;).
I don't think Blast Zone is worth it. It's tutorable with Primeval Titan but we are so dependant on T1 untapped green source, that even running 4 Nykthos is hard sometimes. Especially since we're running only 20-21 lands.
As you mentioned we can get the most of it with all the untapping and extra mana. My estimation is that the downside of having to play an additional colorless land is not worth the potential upside.
@Gruulmeharder: Couldn't agree more on the interaction part. We are slower than the best linear decks in modern, that means we have to pack some sort of interaction to buy us the extra time we need to set up.
Primal Command had pretty much exactly this purpose, buying us another turn against many decks in the format.
Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner: With her we can pretty consistently go:
T1: Land, Utopia Sprawl/Arbor Elf/Wild Growth (gogo MH;))
T2: Land and best case another Ramp on a forest, play kiora, untap the double enchanted land into another 3 drop.
T3: Very high chance to make 5+ Mana
As already mentioned we have a lot of 4 power creatures with CMC under 4 at our disposal to get more value out of her:
Steel Leaf Champion , Leatherback Baloth, Boon Satyr, Prowling Serpopard, Rhonas the Indomitable, Talara's Battalion, Yasova Dragonclaw.
Domri, Anarch of Bolas If a list includes Kiora and plays strong creatures to maximize her synergy he provides the removal while still being a good T2 play on its own as he provides additional ramp, compared to Domri Rade
Will definetely return to devotion when the new set comes out, trying to maximize the synergy of the new cards. Going to post a list later this week, including the new cards.
@curdbros, is there a reason you write Grull instead of Gruul? ^^
When it comes to midrange I always played GB Devotion which gives you Vraska's and fatal push/Abrupt decay/ass trophy which also works against Death's Shadow or a flipped TiTi.
Any particular Reason why you're running 0 copies of Oath of Nissa?
My experience with bloodbrad is not that positive. There's always the chance to hit a ramp spell, in comparison to Jund. doesnt provide significant devotion or other synergies. Obviously always feels great casting it T2, but personally I didn't like him in the devotion archetype.
Nissa, Vastwood Seer might be interesting for your midrange playstyle.
I'm really hopeful for Wild Growth as well. What lead you to be 95% sure it will in MH?
The only other deck besides green devotion variations that would benefit from it is Ponza I think.
The challenger decks have Jadelight Ranger, which should make it super affordable. I have become a huge fan of the card. It does exactly what we need in a "fair" ramp deck (by that I mean we play tons of cards devoted to ramping instead of e.g. tron). We always struggle to get the payoff at the right moment.
CMC 3 and GG makes it one of the best T2 plays, setting up T3 nicely. Being able to put Primal Commands/Summoner's pact/T&N on top, something which Oath misses. We discussed the card back when it was released. Did anyone gather some more experience with her?
(https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2019-02-19)
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Kiora, Master of the Depths
Creature (19)
4 Arbor Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Eternal Witness
1 Hornet Queen
3 Kiora's Follower
1 Primeval Titan
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Walking Ballista
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
3 Primal Command
1 Time Warp
3 Tooth and Nail
Enchantment (8)
4 Overgrowth
4 Utopia Sprawl
Land (22)
3 Breeding Pool
6 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dismember
1 Dragonlord Atarka
2 Negate
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Trinisphere
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Interesting 1 of Timewarp in there. Kiora's Follower instead of Voyaging Satyr.
Just wanted to add Avatar of the Resolute as a good option against flyers. Synergizes well with Scavenging Ooze, which seems like a maindeckable card in the current competitive meta.
Excited for the new primer, thanks for all your work curdbros.
How did Nissa, Vital Force work out?
GJ on bringing those RIP's with you when I look at that field full of dredge/KCI.
How does your sideboard plan against humans look like?
Now there's an additional CMC 4 Planesewalker besides Garruk Relentless to interact with not only creatures but all CMC 3 and lower permaments.
I hope there wont be a big standard demand that drives prices up. I will definately go back to my GB Walker list.
Her + ability pairs well with Clues from Tireless Tracker, multiple Oath of Nissa's and the 0/1 Plants from Nissa, Voice of Zendikar.
On Reddit everyone dismisses her because all they see is a T4 play in BGx midrange decks. We can reliably cast her T3 and sometimes T2 while spamming the board with resilient creatures.
@Curdbros: Since green devotion has so much ramp I wonder if Maelstrom Pulse is not strictly better than Abrupt Decay or Assassin's Trophy.
Seeing SLC being used makes Rhonas the Indomitable that much more appealing. Like a second Kessig Wolf Run on a Stick.
Sadly, Garruk Relentless is not an efficient tutor like Primal Command, Pact or Chord. He can be pretty bad against creatureless (e.g. ad nauseam, hard control) and very big creatures like ETron. The Tutor side cannot be achieved every time, it's more like a bonus. Sometimes I had to kill my own arbor elf to get him to flip (vs UW control). Getting to sac Plant Tokens for his tutor feels great though. Remember, he does not threaten an ultimate and is in bolt range all the time. However spamming 2/2 Wolfs is not that bad either and goes well with the Garruk Wildspeaker/ Nissa +1/+1 counter / Craterhoof overrun plan.
The consistency of the deck is at a good place and I would say that adding Bolts/Abrades/Beast Withins (or any strong non creature/walker card) is meta dependant and hard to answer in general (as some number will be in the 75 anyway). My Decklist is incomplete with the sideboard, as we really should be looking at 75 cards.
I still think Oath of Nissa is the strongest card printed for devotion in the past sets and I want to maximize its efficacy.
On the play a T2 Nissa VOZ into a T3 Garruk Relentless is pretty sweet and hard to deal with for many decks.
I think that this sort of Walker heavy deck needs some form of interaction to stand a chance against decks like humans. Red opens up Chandra and great sideboard options.
I don't play Courser in here because I need the resiliency of Kitchen finks to protect the walkers.
You are right that Courser usually shines in a deck with fetches and Primeval Titans, but I rather fill up the board with finks because they synergise well with Nissa VOZ and the recurring blocking protection to get the planeswalker value train rolling.
As I wrote couple pages back, I do the same and I think it makes a lot of sense. Game 1 I want the Oaths to get my gameplan working with maximum consistency while in G2 I hope for my sideboard cards to mess with the opponent's gameplay, leaving aside some of the main gameplan for some devastating cards like bloodmoon or just more interaction.
I think Eldritch Evolution shines in a Kiki-Jiki centered combo deck stuffed with other value creatures. I wasn't a fan of it in most devotion decks without any combos. Pairs nice with Kitchen Finks and Strangleroot Geist but is just horrific against Remand and the likes. You have become known for some pretty out there cards, give it a go and see if you can come up with something busted.
Been playing this GR version for the past couple of weeks in paper. Thinking about investing into mtgo
4 Arbor Elf
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Oath of Nissa
CMC 2/3
4 Tireless Tracker
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Nissa Voice of Zendikar
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Garruk Relentless
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Polukranos
CMC 5+
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Primeval Titan
1 Hornet Queen
1 Acidic Slime
8 Green Fetch
2 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
6 Forest
A well built list. Going for the max. 12 Ramp cards and high impact 3 drops. Walking Ballista for Interaction. I like it a lot.
I have been going to 4x Tireless Tracker as well in my list, have been advocating the card for grindier versions of the deck. I do think it's the best card advantage engine we can play right now.
Congratulations for your results so far. Hollow one is almost a coin flip deck, not much you can do when they run well.
Well played and good luck going forward, we're rooting for you!
Here is an updated versions of my GB Walker List:
Pretty Sure I should put Primeval Titans back in there and needs some more streamlining in the top end threats.
4 Arbor Elf
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Oath of Nissa
CMC 3
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Nissa Voice of Zendikar
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ramunap Excavator
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Garruk Relentless
1 Polukranos
CMC 5+
2 Vraska the Unseen
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Hornet Queen
1 Genesis Hydra
8 Green Fetch
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
8 Forest