The "clean" method is the third option purposed by Ava, even stated by Wednesday as being the "cleanest".
Its also the option that provides the least power to wishes if given a purpose, its also the option that requires no card banned, its also an option that requires no wishboard, its also an option that is the least likely to cause a big price spike, its already had a precedent which means using those rules is not that out there really. Its literally the safest option if change were to occur.
It can be argued the logistics of it, like what caused the social contract mess of an argument in the first place, but it still remains the better method purposed. Also that the only counter arguments to it are literally: Citing rules 0 and 13.
Also Blue are you really going down this route? Because Karn, the Great Creator is a modern day wish spell, just like Coax from the Blind Eternities. They are wish spells that also retrieve from exile. That what they are doing is the modern equivalent of the very same function prior to magic 2010 like if a spell was RFG with swords to plowshares. Fancy that. Its almost like your argument about me not knowing how wishes worked was a hugely false statement in a poor man's attempt to discredit me.
Also on the Shahrazad thing, don't talk about unrelated stuff that no bearing on the discussion, simple as that. Keep it on subject Blue or don't post it at all. If Blue wants to defend his unrelated topic to make it have relevance, they are contributing less than I was.
In fact both MHRBlue and Kamino_Taka have contributed very little in this revived discussion aside from thanking each other as if that gives them credibility. The only ones who seem to be actually doing the legwork for this discussion are Ava, ForgottenOne, and CrimsonWings_3689. Which is two in favor of wishes, one against wishes. I don't include myself as I will admit that I mostly just been the peanut gallery for this discussion.
- Ava
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Last active Tue, Nov, 19 2019 11:58:24
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Tibalt's Advocate posted a message on WishesPosted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum -
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Forgotten One posted a message on WishesAll prices current TCGPlayer prices unless otherwise noted:Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
Burning Wish - $1
Cunning Wish - $7
Living Wish - $1
Golden Wish - $0.50
Death Wish - $0.50
Glittering Wish - $6
Ring of Ma'rûf - $100-$150 Starcitygames.com (Note this is an Arabian Nights card; price range is for NM to SP)
Coax From the Blind Eternities - $0.35
Research // Development - $0.70
Mastermind's Acquisition - $2
Spawnsire of Ulamog - $4
Karn, the Great Creator - $10
Are we really talking 'Perceived Barrier to Entry' based on that?!?!? -
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Legend posted a message on April 2019 Banlist & Rules UpdatesPosted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from cryogen »
You already accept a number of format specific rules which don't exist in any.other format, so why yet up in arms over this specific one?
Because this specific one doesn’t hold to the declared criteria for banning. Why is this fact being completely ignored, even by the CAD apparently? Every argument in this thread leveled against wishes fails when held to the actual, official reasons for banning. It would make more sense to try out the wishes and then, if any are problematic, ban the offenders. But don’t preban them. The irony of Rule 13 and the apparent hypocrisy that led to it is why I said anything at all. I applaud others in this thread who have done such a superb job of countering emotional arguments with logic and explaining why wishes should be a relevant part of EDH. -
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Ree Wicker posted a message on Print this Wizards (so I can play it in EDH)Avacyn, Crowd Favorite 3WWPosted in: Commander (EDH)
Legendary Creature - Angel Wrestler [MR]
Convoke, persistence
When ~ enters the battlefield, create a 0/1 white and red Citizen token with exalted named Adoring Fan.
Tagout RR (This creature returns to the command zone and its partner enters the battlefield.)
Partners with Tibalt the Painbringer
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Tibalt the Painbringer RR
Legendary Creature - Devil Wrestler [MR]
First strike, provoke
When ~ enters the battlefield, put two -1/-1 counters on the creature that was blocking or blocked by Avacyn, Crowd Favorite. If a creature given counters this way would die this turn, draw a card.
Tagout WW (This creature returns to the command zone and its partner enters the battlefield.)
Partners with Avacyn, Crowd Favorite
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JaceBluesMaster posted a message on Oubliette to be reprinted in a "future set"If you switch Oubliette to Phasing, then it will gain an additional ability - 502.15i When a permanent phases out, any local enchantments or Equipment attached to that permanent phase out at the same time. This alternate way of phasing out is known as phasing out "indirectly." An enchantment or Equipment that phased out indirectly won't phase in by itself, but instead phases in along with the card it's attached to.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
Equipment will Phase Out with the Creature, in addition to Enchantments. -
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void_nothing posted a message on Oubliette to be reprinted in a "future set"Posted in: The Rumor Mill
"When Dimensional Dungeon enters the battlefield, target creature phases out. That creature can't phase in for as long as Dimensional Dungeon is on the battlefield."Quote from lukey52 »Will be interesting to see how exactly R&D rework/reword the card to be functionally identical but not take several minutes for each player to decipher a wall of tiny text.
No Oblivion Ring-ish blink trick with this one, though. -
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Tiro of Meletis posted a message on Ultimate Masters & Box Topper Promos + PSA regarding sealed Box Topper BoostersSeeing people complain about this on Facebook is so annoying. Go play Yugioh. You'll get hammered into oblivion just trying and Konami will spit in your face for it. No one is obligated to buy this product. It's only a plus to have these cards available to those who can and will, rather than not. Because if we didn't have some promise of reprints, some addition to the card pool, then the secondary market will run wild with its prices. And at that point, who does everyone blame? Never the hoarders or scalpers, it'll be WOTC fault for not reprinting more. And if the reprints are too accessible? Their fault again for not honoring MTG as a collector's game. It's hilarious to me that the complaints are that these reprints may not lower the price of the secondary market cards - MAY NOT, neglecting the fact it's a valid possibility it may - and neglecting the fact those secondary market prices are the fault of the losers who establish them because MTG isn't a game, but an investment to them.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
An investment.
Laughable. -
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WizardMN posted a message on Ban//UnbanPosted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
I'm sorry, but "What?". I am not going to go into a lot of detail on your suggestions because your card suggestions seem to be based on issues in cEDH which are completely irrelevant for this thread. This is about Multiplayer EDH; cEDH problems don't matter to the RC. Suggesting Thrasios and Tymna is so broken that "If your aim is to win, why build anything else?" is laughable and ridiculous.Quote from Anark »Ooooh boy I love when these threads pop up. They really show peoples' knowledge of EDH and how aware/unaware they are of how broken the format truly is. To my core I don't believe the format can be treated as "competitive" in the slightest, therefore cEDH is a bit of a joke to me, albeit that's because the RC has made it this way.
Nevertheless this is my view on the topic; pretty much everything that is banned should stay banned because I'd break them if they left the banlist. As for what to ban...
Fast mana. Game can't really feel like skill is involved when you lose to someone before you play a second land. Thats just RNG. Who likes losing to RNG?! If I had to pick which exactly to ban I'd say its the cEDH's Power4 (Sol Ring, mana crypt, mox diamond and chrome mox). Banning mana vault after that couldn't hurt either. Once the fast mana is taken out we'd have meaning ful interactions with one another, not "race and ignore your opponents" type meta
Thrasios, Triton Hero: This slimy bastard is everywhere. When half the players at your LGS and many other cEDH circles play this little guy you know the RC has failed. He single handedly is putting a strangehold on the entire meta and is forcing everyone to build around him and compare their speed against his. Tymna the weaver just makes him even more broken. If your aim is to win, why build anything else?
Ad Nauseam: Most broken card in edh. Hands down. Who thought allowing "Pay 5 mana, win the game" would be a good idea? Either ban this silly card or lower life totals to 30 IMO. To be honest, i feel like lowering life totals to 30 would be the healthiest change to ever come to edh as it would allow aggro to be competitive and actually playable against combo. Maybe.
Flash. This with Protean hulk says "Pay 2 mana; win the game". Some mong really dropped the ball allowing this one to be legal. Coming across this makes you question who makes the rules for this game.
aetherflux reservoir: Probably an unpopular opinion I'll admit, but I feel like this was just too good of a weapon for storm decks. It made them go from highly playable to straight up "EDH is a game of combo". Its too good. Ban it IMO. Let em go back to tendrils of agony and mind's desire etc etc
Food chain: Tazri has become too consistent now and theres always gonna be commanders that will make the card say "pay 3 mana, get infinite mana". Just ban it to prevent further abuse.
Laboratory maniac: No, its not fancy. No, it takes no skill to do a setup with it. Doomsday for example says "pay 3 mana, win the game" with labman being legal. Its not fun to play against, takes not much skill to pull off after a little bit of practice and is just really unhealthy for competitive play in general. Ban this and it'll fix a lot of problems.
The chain veil: Card by itself is fine but combined with teferi, temporal archmage the card is beyond broken. Its format warping and should have been banned years ago.
Theres roughly 10 more format-warping cards but i'd say these are the obvious ones. Theres always going to be strong cards, but sometimes cards can be so broken when built correctly that it can make edh commander-selection feel like 15 commanders to pick from instead of 870+. No card should EVER say "Pay X; Win if no response"... Its just not fun after the first time for many, many people. I mean, you gotta remember this question is subjective too, so someone could come along and say I'm completely wrong and that winning on turn 3 consistantly is extremely fun and skill-based. Everyones different and theres gonna be a lot of differing opinions on this topic. Hopefully this little response gives you an idea of just my viewpoint on this anywho
On topic: of the cards on the list, I think Painter's Servant and Gifts Ungiven would be the "safest" unbans. Recurring Nightmare would be my choice for a more aggressive unban. I am not sure how truly powerful it would be but the difficulty in answering it coupled with the repetitive nature does not bode well for it.
As for bans, I am honestly not sure. I hate MLD, but I don't think it needs to be banned (mostly because there are too many ways to accomplish it anyway). Maybe a swap ban with Iona, Shield of Emeria for PS. I think it already plays into a weird space with the format since the format is all about color restrictions. I am not sure that mono color decks need to be hated out so easily and PS would make this even easier. And, maybe Paradox Engine? I personally have not played against it in a couple years but others have commented that it negatively affects their play experiences. Otherwise, I don't really think there is currently anything worth banning. -
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Courier7 posted a message on Brawl - the formatPosted in: The Rumor MillQuote from Narvuntien »If I am playing say the locust god.. my opponent plays the scarab god well I lose and there is nothing I can do to remove the scarab god from relevance in game. there are no cards in UR to deal with the scarab god. or Hazoret either or any of the other gods.
Puncturing Blow or Magma Spray if Scarab has already taken damage. Hour of Devastation deals with the other gods...well, not Bontu or Oketra but you would need to deal only 1 more point of damage to them first. Once they are in the graveyard you may crook them. Other than that, since you are in blue/red you can Soul-Scar Mage and "burn" them out or keep them tapped down. -
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SecretInfiltrator posted a message on Brawl - the formatPosted in: The Rumor MillQuote from Cainsson »There are so many ways this could be better.
-Standard card pool but 20lp
-All cards printed with the M15 border legal
-Standard card pool but not singleton, instead using Duels card quantity limits by rarirty
As it is I don't think I'll play it. It's not a new competitive setting ripe for brewing and it's not a new casual setting that offers anything different from Standard or Commander, letting us use walkers as commanders is not enough to entice me. I doubt anyone at my LGS will care and there's no sign it'll be supported online so I don't think I'll even be able to play this ever.
I personally used to play 60/4/1 Commander with Standard-sized card pool and 60/1/1 Commander with a larger card pool based on the old extended card pool. Any "eternal" card pool based on a new card face is just something people will want to replace again at some point - basically creating rotation again just on a more arbitrary frequency.
Also I think they would want to start a format like that one core set later.
That said, I can see the appeal of the rarity-based card number restrictions - though it's always iffy with reprints. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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A person who searches their library slowly for a card is not much better than person who slowly decides what card outside the game they want to put into their hand. A person who slowly calculates and recalculates the size of their board of their creatures and who they can go after isn't much better either. A person who goes through an infinite or near-infinite combo but takes a long time isn't much better either. A person who slowly decides if they let a spell resolve even if they couldn't actually respond to it anyway isn't much better either.
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Draw spell? I assume your not referring to the land or just its activated ability in general.
T1: Forest
T2: Forest, Magus
T3: Draw, tap Magus to draw, play up to 2 cards from hand.
T4: Draw, tap magus to draw, play up to 2 cards from hand.
You can still play your hand, you just have to pace yourself.
A toughness of 1 would have been a better argument than being a creature.
Llanowar is fairly mediocre if you aren't capitalizing on the elf or druid tribal if that is what you meant by a "good deck". At best case scenario, when outside of those themes, its a 1/1 that might get a boost from an overrun-based effect.
Which is a different style of card draw and is more comparable to a brainstorm that lets you pay life to not put cards back on top of the library. Unless you have the lifegain to back it up for a +2, your effectively getting a +0 in net value most of the time; +1 if you actually need to hold onto something in hand but not likely to happen every turn.
From this thread, quite the contrary if its been brought up.
This seems quite random for a statement like you ran out of ammunition.
False statement.
Mystic Snake sees plenty of play, I don't know why you would think the opposite.
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Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary: Simply too easy to abuse since Rofellos's strength is based on mana ramping and tossing down creatures sooner than others. Rofellos has been unbanned before but has proven to be still problematic even when allowed to be just in the ninety-nine.
Braids, Cabal Minion: Just because its a lesser evil in stax doesn't mean its safe. Also being mono color is not really that much of a weakness if its within the three horsemen that is BUG. As mono being a weakness only applies to R and W as they aren't very suited to this format and only recent years have gained some power thanks to more recent sets.
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant: See Braids.
Coalition Victory: One of the easiest to fulfill win conditions. Your commander fulfills 25% of the win condition. The other 25% requirement is having each basic land type which can be performed in a number of ways like a scapeshift or a prismatic omen. Next 25% is just get 8 mana (3 colorless, 1 of each color). Final 25% is nobody has an instant speed answer.
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As what WotC is basically doing is: Instead of trying to climb a mountain, climb a wall first.
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Legendary Creature - Elf Mystic Nomad (R)
Auras that target a Nomad or Mystic creature you control cost 2 less to cast.
Auras enchanting creatures you control have totem armor.
Whenever an Aura would enter your graveyard from anywhere, you may draw a card. If you do, discard a card.
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Artwork: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/gwent/images/8/82/Elven_Scout.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20171209011353
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1) Include all rules associated with commander normally.
2) No deck, commander included, may have any enchantments, artifacts, planeswalkers or nonbasic lands.
3) Activated abilities can only be activated before attackers are declared.
4) Instants are always played at sorcery speed except for counterspells and "only during the declare attackers step and only if you've been attacked this step."
I just personally felt like sharing is all.
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