Oksy guys, I've put in some serious testing with approach and will continue to do so. First thing first, we are arguing about 3 decks, esper, jeskai, and azoriuous currently. i understand your frustrations with the jeskai mana base, and that is understandable. The lands we currently have just aren't equipped to handle it, with most of the lands coming into play tapped. however the mana base for esper is much smoother due to the ally lands and cycle lands working so well together. I've never lost because my mana base was awkward, but in my testing of currently 137 games into the new format, in two games i had an issue where the first 2 lands came into play tapped when i would have preferred the second one didn't but still won. and i've had 4 games where i didn't have double black by turn 5 for vraska's contempt, but still won. Now with these stats i'm not trying to say anything about my win rate with the deck, however what I am say is that I'm currently 137 games into the new format (since the bans on monday) and that my esper mana base has not cost me a game. Could it cost me a game? sure it could. but the frequency of it happening is a very slim margin compared to what i'm getting in return.
on a second note, Nezahal is a house in the midrange and mirror. it's possible he might be better than gearhulk.
UW has a lot of answers that will get you outside T5 already, I believe more in Aether Meltdown and Baffling End. A lot of creatures get larger than 2 with anthems, tokens, and lords really quickly these days. having a 2 pt solution to nothing in hand is really feel bad so I'm not high on red at all.
Esper isn't bad and provides win conditions and Fatal Push but is really a play style choice for the 1st reason I stated. While mana is always riskier with 3 colors, I'm finding black might be more helpful to warrant the risk.
Melt and Baffling them works great though. I actually like Melt a LOT better because its better late on almost any target whereas Baffle (and other wee spells) can get stuck in hand. Use the energy to Confiscation Coup is also a nice bonus. BUT if you're splashing for Scarab God, it doesn't hurt to have access to a lot of what black offers and once you're past T4 usually you're just fine with colors... if you can take some lands coming in tapped the rest of the game.
Again, Spell Pierce is your worst enemy for that first sweeper which unfortunately is a MUST have against almost all the new tribes if you haven't picked them apart already.
I really like Aether Meltdown. At least in my world, I'm seeing more vehicles now and it's nice to be able to Flash in a -4 on them. It brings me joy. For merfolk I'm going to test one or two Thopter Arrest as a less expensive replacement to Cast Out. Often times the critical creature isn't attacking so I can't Farm them.
I guess we need a turn one answer like fatal push or magma spray for the initial attackers.
You DO NOT NEED to run a 3rd color like red for Magma Spray or black for Fatal Push, that will not make your deck better, it will make the mana worse and overall your deck will lose more games than if you just run answers to creatures using white which has an amazing array of cards available now.
xaltair: Thank you for posting this. I am sure there are benefits to three-color Approach decks but I have really struggled to pilot them correctly I guess. Having a land come in tapped at the wrong time (like T4 or T5) has lost me some games. Anyway, last night I decided to go back to UW so your comment is timely from my perspective. I am envious of the three-color sideboard options but, at least for me, UW feels a lot more natural.
I like the five creature control shell the Esper builds have with three Torrential Gearhulks and two The Scarab God as an alternate win condition. Any UW creatures that would fit nicely into a similar role to replace Scarab if running only UW? I realize they won't be as good as TSG but, I suspect due to my own limitations as a player, I do much better as UW. With two colors it is also a little easier to run with two Scavenger Grounds and two Field of Ruin in Main.
The wraths are the safety valve you have to depend on because point and shoot removal has more limitations than missing just 1 indestructible target.
Harness is great if you're building up a lot of energy but if you're not Energy creatures will outsize your energy limit. Aether meltdown is also decent but can be outsized or just 'hex proofed' when you cast.
Since no mana has to be expended to use energy the natural limitations the game has for itself are ignored and then theres Blossoming Defense.
The problem is red removal is great early game and against Ramred but not great against energy/lategame. Other than the red wrath, you cannot deal with Hazoret. So it will come down to your meta and what you expect to deal with.
UR was great for a while but has failed in the current energy/ramredness of the world. Esper gives you a nice mix (UB to a lesser degree). You have access to instant conditional removal and wraths that will get everything.
What Greyimp said. IMO, Approach needs to be a UWx deck, splash a third color for spot removal and sideboard options. If you are planning on running a UR list with a splash for Approach, you probably won't be able to run the white sweepers, Settle and Fumigate, because of needing double white for both. Those are 2 of the best sweepers in Standard right now.
I have tried both Jeskai and Esper, with pretty similar results. So it comes down to what you like the best. One has Abrade , Glorybringer and The Locust God. The other has Vrasha's Contempt , Duress and The Scarab God. Red seems to be better against a more aggro meta and Esper feels stronger against mostly Temur. But that could just be the differences in my list. My Jeskai lists run Gideon main and my Esper runs Gearhulk main (so I can turn the deck into a UB Control list G2/3).
Thank you both for the responses; I appreciate it! I was sort of feeling Settle the Wreckage was dead because of Admiral's Orders but I am probably over-reacting a bit. My son plays Temur and the match-up is hard enough already!
Baffling End does look promising! While I was testing out Jeskai I played a The Locust God and that felt really natural because the Approach decks are already so card-draw and cycling focused. I will look into that option more.
I have a conceptual question I'm hoping someone can help me out with. UR seems to have a lot of two mana answers with Aether Meltdown and Harnessed Lightning and Essence Scatter. And my least favorite thing about Approach Decks is reliance on wraths; especially post-board and especially with Admiral's Order coming into the World. . . What is the significant downside of UR builds? Seems like a splash of white via an Aether Hub or some other means would be enough to get Approach of the Second Sun out.
UW control didnt get anything. The only card with a possibility is Nezahal. Everything else is garbage. If you cant beat Energy with with what you have now in UW or UWR Approach, the new set isnt going to fix it.
Meanwhile, I have been on UW Drake Haven. Its been a lot of fun and competitive.
Yeah, we didn't get much. My "glass is half full" thinking is the meta will be diversified with more tribal decks but since they are all creature-based, we'll continue to get easy game ones against everyone except RR.
The cycling deck is a ton of fun to play but I found that (for better or worse) I prefer the win con finality of Approach of the Second Sun. Sometimes I wish I didn't. I didn't find a way to pull it off, but a Vile Manifestation would be a pretty cool finisher in the cycling deck.
What do you guys think so far of the spolied cards for rivals of Ixalan?
My initial reaction to Admiral's Order was that it will be easier for a Temur player to counter a Settle the Wreckage. Maybe the creatures would still be "attacking" at this point though (not sure). . .
Went 4-1 in the Store Championship (which is a great result for me) so thanks again for all the feedback! The two Torrential Gearhulks in the mainboard made an impact. I splashed in just enough black for two The Scarab God in the sideboard and that's a great option to have.
I don't have enough black for Fatal Push. I really don't like what this does to my mana base and I don't have a good way to trigger revolt for Push but I'm clearly missing something because traditional UW seems to be waning. . .
Thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies. I will definitely be incorporating the feedback – it is appreciated!
@greyimp: I had 1 Torrential Gearhulk in the mainboard for a while but it never made an impact (probably because it was a 1 of). I eventually moved it out. Based on what you and @pumpmonkey said I’ll move 2 into the main. I’ve played a couple games at home that way and I think it has helped. Similar feedback from @pumpmonkey on the Sunscourge Champion so I’ll cut that number back a bit. . .
@kpal: I will look into the Settle the Wreckage/Fumigate balance. I have games where 3/2 seems the right number and others where 2/3 looks better. Would really like to find a way to have 3/3 of these. . .
@pumpmonkey: I play-tested your deck today. I really like it! The 3 Glimmer of Genius / 1 Pull from Tomorrow pattern is great; late in the game I was drawing 5 rather than 2. I’m going to copy that into my deck. =)
Re: Flex Slot. Have you considered 2 Duress as a pre-2nd Approach deck peek vs. an opponent with blue? Just curious. . .
I've been quietly following this thread for the past couple of months; started MTG a few months ago and gravitated to UW Approach. This thread has helped me a ton: thank you to everyone who has taken the time to contribute.
Temur
-4 Opt
-3 Search
-2 Supreme Will
-2 Glimmer
-1 Fumigate
-3 Approach
+15 Sideboard
FNM has been going reasonably well but the quality of decks is pretty inconsistent at times. Anyway, if anyone has specific thoughts would welcome the feedback.
Is there a decklist? My google resulted in his UW builds from October.
Wow, another great post. Thank you! The clarification on the land draw between the three versions was really helpful. I assume the benefits of Esper you refer to are Fatal Push & The Scarab God? If it isn't too much trouble a decklist would be welcome if your lands deviate substantially from https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-esper-approach-43899#paper.
I need to get my head around whether this is realistic (at least if I'm at the helm):
T1: B
T2: U (untapped)
T4: WW (untapped)
That seems like, well, magic.
I really like Aether Meltdown. At least in my world, I'm seeing more vehicles now and it's nice to be able to Flash in a -4 on them. It brings me joy. For merfolk I'm going to test one or two Thopter Arrest as a less expensive replacement to Cast Out. Often times the critical creature isn't attacking so I can't Farm them.
xaltair: Thank you for posting this. I am sure there are benefits to three-color Approach decks but I have really struggled to pilot them correctly I guess. Having a land come in tapped at the wrong time (like T4 or T5) has lost me some games. Anyway, last night I decided to go back to UW so your comment is timely from my perspective. I am envious of the three-color sideboard options but, at least for me, UW feels a lot more natural.
I wonder why so many of the Black-Blue Control decks run Hieroglyphic Illumination rather than Glimmer of Genius. . .
I like the five creature control shell the Esper builds have with three Torrential Gearhulks and two The Scarab God as an alternate win condition. Any UW creatures that would fit nicely into a similar role to replace Scarab if running only UW? I realize they won't be as good as TSG but, I suspect due to my own limitations as a player, I do much better as UW. With two colors it is also a little easier to run with two Scavenger Grounds and two Field of Ruin in Main.
Thanks!
Thank you both for the responses; I appreciate it! I was sort of feeling Settle the Wreckage was dead because of Admiral's Orders but I am probably over-reacting a bit. My son plays Temur and the match-up is hard enough already!
Baffling End does look promising! While I was testing out Jeskai I played a The Locust God and that felt really natural because the Approach decks are already so card-draw and cycling focused. I will look into that option more.
Also transitioning to more of a haste creature deck for G2 & G3 where maybe I can use Admiral's Order to protect Approach of the Second Sun has some appeal.
Thanks!
Yeah, we didn't get much. My "glass is half full" thinking is the meta will be diversified with more tribal decks but since they are all creature-based, we'll continue to get easy game ones against everyone except RR.
The cycling deck is a ton of fun to play but I found that (for better or worse) I prefer the win con finality of Approach of the Second Sun. Sometimes I wish I didn't.
My initial reaction to Admiral's Order was that it will be easier for a Temur player to counter a Settle the Wreckage. Maybe the creatures would still be "attacking" at this point though (not sure). . .
I don't know how much to read into this but for the first time that I can remember UW Approach isn't listed in the mtggoldfish Standard Metagame:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/standard/full#paper. Only four Esper.
I don't have enough black for Fatal Push. I really don't like what this does to my mana base and I don't have a good way to trigger revolt for Push but I'm clearly missing something because traditional UW seems to be waning. . .
@greyimp: I had 1 Torrential Gearhulk in the mainboard for a while but it never made an impact (probably because it was a 1 of). I eventually moved it out. Based on what you and @pumpmonkey said I’ll move 2 into the main. I’ve played a couple games at home that way and I think it has helped. Similar feedback from @pumpmonkey on the Sunscourge Champion so I’ll cut that number back a bit. . .
@kpal: I will look into the Settle the Wreckage/Fumigate balance. I have games where 3/2 seems the right number and others where 2/3 looks better. Would really like to find a way to have 3/3 of these. . .
@pumpmonkey: I play-tested your deck today. I really like it! The 3 Glimmer of Genius / 1 Pull from Tomorrow pattern is great; late in the game I was drawing 5 rather than 2. I’m going to copy that into my deck. =)
Re: Flex Slot. Have you considered 2 Duress as a pre-2nd Approach deck peek vs. an opponent with blue? Just curious. . .
Hope everyone’s FNM is going well!
~ Hobbits
I've been quietly following this thread for the past couple of months; started MTG a few months ago and gravitated to UW Approach. This thread has helped me a ton: thank you to everyone who has taken the time to contribute.
I'm running a pretty generic build: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/463-uw-approach. I tried Esper but the mana felt awkward (the early game and Scarab God moments were great however).
Still refining the sideboard but generally I try to turn into a creature deck with wraths. Something like:
Ramunap
-3 Search
-4 Glimmer
-3 Approach
-1 Fumigate
+3 Authority
+4 Sunscourge
+4 Regal
Temur
-4 Opt
-3 Search
-2 Supreme Will
-2 Glimmer
-1 Fumigate
-3 Approach
+15 Sideboard
FNM has been going reasonably well but the quality of decks is pretty inconsistent at times. Anyway, if anyone has specific thoughts would welcome the feedback.
Thanks!