Sorry for having to ask here, but is there anywhere that the Esper builds are discussed here? I have really loved playing the deck, but am pretty committed to the black cards in it. Thanks in advance!
Since it we can't talk about Esper or Jeskai Approach list here, which still seems funny to me
Agreed. I like being able to compare the builds since all three play a similar style and have similar challenges.
I have spammed this deck the last couple nights against assortments of aggro decks. Mono Red, Mardu Vehicles, Mono Black, and B/R. Game 1 seems abysmal. Sideboarded games are obviously a lot better, but still don't feel great without turn 1 Authority of the Consuls. I am just not sure how this deck is 5-0ing without Baffling End.
It is hard to argue with the two recent 5-0s but I agree, this decklist isn't for me.
I've been running UW for several months now with reasonable results. I used to run 2x Search for Azcanta, but recently have been experimenting with a build that runs 4x treasure map and have been pretty impressed with the maps. Yes, they die to abrade every now and again, and yes you have to pay to scry (vs. the free pseudo-scry of Search), but if you manage to get one to stick, the 3 treasures are really very good for a number of things, including (1) turning on ascend (for Arch of Orazca), (2) ramping to Approach, and (3) getting bonus mana for counterspells. Some other advantages I see with Map are that it tends to flip faster (if it will flip), it draws extra cards with Treasure Cove, they are nonlegendary, and I feel like they are less likely to draw opponents' counterspells (as compared to Search).
Has anyone else experimented with Maps for card filtering? It may be that Search is better, or that some combination of the two is optimal, but I've been pretty impressed with the maps lately. I have also recently had a couple of grindy control matchups lately in which I've been down to fewer than 10 cards in my library (with Arch, Treasure Cove, and Azor, the Lawbringer, I've been drawing a bunch of cards). Seems like another upside to Map is that you're not pitching cards into the graveyard that you might want later...
Thoughts?
Hey there;
I haven't tried that. I am so used to Search for Azcanta I think I would have a hard time paying for a Scry at this point. I had Arch of Orazca in my deck for a while but it was so rarely used I took it out.
This is the list I am going to run at FNM tomorrow and will take to Memphis. I may make a few changes but this is very close. I will post my sideboard plans shortly. Let me know what you guys think.
I really like this build. FWIW, it is quite similar to my current UW deck and I've been having good results online.
Our WinCons and wraths are identical. I think 2 Torrential Gearhulks complement Approach really well in Main and essentially gives us 5 Settle the Wreckage. Also totally with you on the 2 Field of Ruin and 2 Scavenger Grounds. I happen to also run 2 Essence Scatter, for whatever reason, that seems to be the right number. Really hoping to cast that in the latter rounds anyway.
I see you run 3/3 Supreme Will/Disallow. I've been running 2/4 but have been thinking about 3/3 as well. I'm never sorry to see Disallow but there have been times I've wanted to impulse with two Disallow in hand.
I feel Baffling End is one of the most important cards in our deck. The ability to remove cards like Glint-Sleeve Siphoner and exile Dreamstealer in a cost effective manner is crucial. I want to give that dinosaur on the card a great big hug.
The only place we really deviate in Main is Censor. I'm sure you are right because the majority of UW decks run with that and Censoring Chandra, Torch of Defiance is one of my favorite plays in all of magic. For me, most of the time, Censor is just an Opt with 50% effectiveness. Opt also let's me say "yes" to shaky initial draws and for those reasons I run with 4. It is quite possible as I move to play higher tiers of magic I will change my mind, but Opt is one of my favorite cards in Standard. I think part of it comes to my own personal preference of being really frustrated if I lose because I can't find land. If I am out-played or make a dumb decision, fine, because at least I'm playing Magic. . .
Sideboard we're also quite similar. Would love to hear when you board in Fragmentize, I've seen that in other places as well.
I run with 4 Authority of the Consuls because I am almost certainly down 0-1 and one trip-up against our Red Friends and it is often game over. Also this deck is back to #1 in the meta, with lots of two color derivatives so that is my thought process. On a personal note, my son played Ramunap Red when we started Magic and I lost so many games before I learned to sideboard effectively that I basically hate that deck. Can you imagine learning magic playing Control v Ramunap? Brutal.
Nezahal, Primal Tide is great. I like having another big creature in the sideboard so bring Azor, the Lawbringer in against aggro decks. Since I've sided out some Glimmer/Azcanta in that match-up I feel the heal/card draw more important in those games.
Anyway, great deck and best wishes at the Grand Prix!
This thread is a train wreck. A lot of random off color Approach builds. And UW midrange strategies.
Thanks for changing the title. Sorry if I posted off-topic. Approach decks seems to be in flux right now with lots of good options now that Energy was brought back to Earth. I'm still running UW! It kind of feels old fashioned now.
As I said before I stopped playing competitive magic back in 2009-10 season and then stopped playing magic for good back in 2011. I started again last year in April 2017 when Amonkhet came out.
That along with the fact that I live in Tokyo but can't read Japanese at all, and barely speak it means that I didn't know that I have to pre-register for the PPTQ at my local store in advance.
On their website it just says registration time and that the max is 60 players and usually there are not many players coming to this store for FNM or for Standard Showdown on Saturdays.
So, I went there early today hoping to register quickly only to find out that all 60 spots were pre-registered already, and I had to wait but instead of a waitlist to see if any extra people can get in they had a page on which I can write my name and then they picked people AT RANDOM instead of in the order in which they signed up.
Long story short about 10-12 people signed up on that list, and they picked 4 at random and my name wasn't one of them so I couldn't participate in the PPTQ, which sucks because I worked on this deck a lot this past week and played both FNM and Showdown yesterday and was eager to play the deck in a bigger tournament and post my results.
I have learned my lesson and will make sure to pre-register for the next standard PPTQ in advance, whenever that may be.
Sorry to hear that xaltair. I can't imagine playing this game in a foreign language. I have a hard enough time in English. . .
That UW build I referenced above has Slash of Talons in the sideboard. That got me wondering how many more creatures a non-Revolt triggered Push will remove vs. Slash. Sharing in case others are interested. . .
I'm a little surprised at the efficacy of Slash of Talons. It is sort of in competition with Authority of the Consuls in my sideboard. I will think about this card more. . .
In part due to the great contributions on this thread, I think I'm feeling comfortable enough to try some tournaments on MTGO. Thanks again for everyone's posts! Before I do that I want to make sure I have the right deck. According to MTGGoldfish two Control variants (UB and Grixis) now make up about 20% of the meta. Approach of the Second Sun will always have a special place for me but I have started to wonder (reluctantly) if those control variants are simply a bit more robust.
If you have opinions on Approach v UB/Grixis control I'd like to hear!
Then this UW Approach build pops up with a 5-0 result today . . .
Approach seems excelent now in this brand new format. Yesterday I played in 32 man pptq, going all the way to the finals giving rptq slot to my teammate and splitting prizes without playing (because it's team rptq, so I will be going with him anyway).
3-1-1 (draw being intentional) in swiss, playing variety of matchups.
Vs UW cycling 2-0
Vs temur black planeswalkers 1-2
Vs Mono Red 2-0
Vs Mardu Vehicles 2-0
Round 5 ID
And then top8:
Quarters vs Mono Black aggro 2-0
Semis vs Esper Approach 2-1
Finals prize split
Notes about card choices:
Baffling End is amazing. I'm not going below 4 any time soon. Scrounger didn't feel like threat anymore.
Azor is way better than he seems. A lot of decks can't even kill him, and often one activation is game over.
Nezahal is a must one-of in sideboard. If you are not severely behind, you won't lose after casting this.
Arch of Orazca is very good 1-of. Search for Azcanta needs to go out vs Aggro, but Arch still gives free late game value if you and aggro both topdeck.
Thank you for posting! There have been several great Approach lists posted recently; this one might be my favorite. I like the addition of Hieroglyphic Illumination because it allows for the elimination of both Opt and Glimmer of Genius (at least in my deck). Freeing up 4 slots for something which affects board-state or advances Approach.
I've been keeping Search for Azcanta in v agro (keeping it uncast until graveyard is close to flip) so will use that 3rd colorless for a Field of Ruin.
2. I feel the kitties are essential here to stabalize life. I basically follow the gameplan for #1 because that is what is available in my sideboard. And I'll apologize for continuing to promote the same card, but I really believe Baffling End helps here too. I think it is the UW version of Fatal Push. Enchantment speed but will take out another tier of creature unless they have Revolt triggered. . .
That #13 PTQ deck is pretty sweet. When I last played Esper I didn't have a mechanism to trigger revolt on Fatal Push so I didn't love that card. In this deck, Evolving Wilds can do that as well as find a Plains when it is time to Approach. 4 Approach of the Second Sun, 3 Field of Ruin, 3 Search for Azcanta and no reliance on sweepers. Bontu's Last Reckoning is in there but it looks like a card of last resort. There is a lot to like there.
I played around with this build a little bit. I liked it but I found myself missing the sweepers. With Baffling End the board is now in a better state so I am more resilient to a countered Settle the Wreckage or Fumigate. At least that is what I'm finding.
Here is a list of the top 32 Standard PTQ decks. STANDARD PTQ. There is a lot of Grixis Midrange (a great matchup for us), a bunch of Rx Aggro decks (comes down to who has the better hand, in my experience) and 1 Esper Approach deck (#13). The list is pretty interesting because it looks like a UB control list that splashes white for Approach. Will have to do some testing.
As far as the ongoing discussion (please let's keep it a discussion instead of turning into 'my deck is better and you are stupid') it really comes down to personal preference. I played just about every version of Approach the last 4-5 months. I have done really well with each and have gotten crushed with all of them also. The Scarab God is one of the strongest cards in standard right now. I feel if you can run him, you should. That is one of the main reasons I am on Esper. But one of the guys at my LGS is on UW and top 4's almost every week. The Jeskai version is a lot of fun to play it feels like it is better against aggro decks. So just play what you want. /rant
For me, in the Esper version, when I started running 26 lands with 3 Fetid Pools and 3 Irrigated Farmland it really helped smooth out the mana base. Best case is to drop one of them on turn 1 tapped and you should be fine the rest of the game. At some point, you will be playing another tapped, but you can usually work around it. And I run 2 Field of Ruin in all my decks. There are too many Enchantment/Lands now, you have to have a way to get rid of them. In a control mirror, if I have a flipped Search and you don't, I feel like I am so far ahead.
As far as Nezahal, Primal Tide, I have not played many games with him yet but the ones I did, he ended them quickly. Not 100% sold on him but will keep testing.
That #13 PTQ deck is pretty sweet. When I last played Esper I didn't have a mechanism to trigger revolt on Fatal Push so I didn't love that card. In this deck, Evolving Wilds can do that as well as find a Plains when it is time to Approach. 4 Approach of the Second Sun, 3 Field of Ruin, 3 Search for Azcanta and no reliance on sweepers. Bontu's Last Reckoning is in there but it looks like a card of last resort. There is a lot to like there.
Every time I think I'm decided I see a shiny new Esper build which makes me reconsider. . .
This is the deck that he was using and he completely dominated Grixis Control Deck he faced in his featured match.
What do you guys think?
Thanks for posting! That is an interesting Approach variant. Glad to see Baffling End get some play. I think it's a great addition to the UW Approach decks. From my perspective, it actually scales fine since so many decks have key early creatures like Longtusk Cub, Bomat Courier, Winding Constrictor which the opposition will have playsets of. And it can take out almost all the merfolk.
Agreed. I like being able to compare the builds since all three play a similar style and have similar challenges.
It is hard to argue with the two recent 5-0s but I agree, this decklist isn't for me.
2 Torrential Gearhulk
Spells 33
3 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Fumigate
3 Censor
2 Disallow
4 Essence Scatter
1 Farm // Market
3 Glimmer of Genius
1 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Pull from Tomorrow
3 Settle the Wreckage
3 Supreme Will
4 Cast Out
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Field of Ruin
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Irrigated Farmland
3 Island
6 Plains
2 Scavenger Grounds
I still prefer a derivative of this build from a couple of months ago: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/866217#paper.
7 Island
6 Plains
2 Field of Ruin
2 Scavenger Grounds
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Irrigated Farmland
Spells 33
4 Cast Out
4 Censor
4 Disallow
3 Glimmer of Genius
4 Opt
3 Settle the Wreckage
3 Supreme Will
3 Search for Azcanta
3 Approach of the Second Sun
2 Fumigate
2 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Authority of the Consuls
4 Negate
2 Baffling End
4 Regal Caracal
1 Azor, the Lawbringer
For my part, I think we're in a pretty good spot now as evidenced by the recent 5-0 results by both the Esper and UW Approach decks.
Hey there;
I haven't tried that. I am so used to Search for Azcanta I think I would have a hard time paying for a Scry at this point. I had Arch of Orazca in my deck for a while but it was so rarely used I took it out.
pumpmonkey;
I really like this build. FWIW, it is quite similar to my current UW deck and I've been having good results online.
Our WinCons and wraths are identical. I think 2 Torrential Gearhulks complement Approach really well in Main and essentially gives us 5 Settle the Wreckage. Also totally with you on the 2 Field of Ruin and 2 Scavenger Grounds. I happen to also run 2 Essence Scatter, for whatever reason, that seems to be the right number. Really hoping to cast that in the latter rounds anyway.
I see you run 3/3 Supreme Will/Disallow. I've been running 2/4 but have been thinking about 3/3 as well. I'm never sorry to see Disallow but there have been times I've wanted to impulse with two Disallow in hand.
I feel Baffling End is one of the most important cards in our deck. The ability to remove cards like Glint-Sleeve Siphoner and exile Dreamstealer in a cost effective manner is crucial. I want to give that dinosaur on the card a great big hug.
The only place we really deviate in Main is Censor. I'm sure you are right because the majority of UW decks run with that and Censoring Chandra, Torch of Defiance is one of my favorite plays in all of magic. For me, most of the time, Censor is just an Opt with 50% effectiveness. Opt also let's me say "yes" to shaky initial draws and for those reasons I run with 4. It is quite possible as I move to play higher tiers of magic I will change my mind, but Opt is one of my favorite cards in Standard. I think part of it comes to my own personal preference of being really frustrated if I lose because I can't find land. If I am out-played or make a dumb decision, fine, because at least I'm playing Magic. . .
Sideboard we're also quite similar. Would love to hear when you board in Fragmentize, I've seen that in other places as well.
I run with 4 Authority of the Consuls because I am almost certainly down 0-1 and one trip-up against our Red Friends and it is often game over. Also this deck is back to #1 in the meta, with lots of two color derivatives so that is my thought process. On a personal note, my son played Ramunap Red when we started Magic and I lost so many games before I learned to sideboard effectively that I basically hate that deck. Can you imagine learning magic playing Control v Ramunap? Brutal.
Nezahal, Primal Tide is great. I like having another big creature in the sideboard so bring Azor, the Lawbringer in against aggro decks. Since I've sided out some Glimmer/Azcanta in that match-up I feel the heal/card draw more important in those games.
Anyway, great deck and best wishes at the Grand Prix!
Thanks for changing the title. Sorry if I posted off-topic. Approach decks seems to be in flux right now with lots of good options now that Energy was brought back to Earth. I'm still running UW! It kind of feels old fashioned now.
Sorry to hear that xaltair. I can't imagine playing this game in a foreign language. I have a hard enough time in English. . .
Fatal Push v Slash of Talons
Non-Ramunap Red
Both cards are very effective in this match-up.
Both: Bomat Courier, Soul-Scar Mage, Earthshaker Khenra, Harsh Mentor
Push: Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
Slash: Ahn-Crop Crasher
Grixis
Neither card great here.
Both: Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
Black-Green Constrictor
Push gets the key players but Slash has plenty of targets available (at least until they get +1'd out of range).
Both: Glint-Sleeve Siphoner, Merfolk Branchwalker
Push: Walking Ballista, Winding Constrictor
Slash: Jadelight Ranger, Rishkar, Peema Renegade, Ravenous Chupacabra
I'm a little surprised at the efficacy of Slash of Talons. It is sort of in competition with Authority of the Consuls in my sideboard. I will think about this card more. . .
If you have opinions on Approach v UB/Grixis control I'd like to hear!
Then this UW Approach build pops up with a 5-0 result today . . .
Seems this deck has reduced the 10-12 counters we typically see in favor of Aether Meltdown, Baffling End, and Slash of Talons in the side.
Thanks!
Thank you for posting! There have been several great Approach lists posted recently; this one might be my favorite. I like the addition of Hieroglyphic Illumination because it allows for the elimination of both Opt and Glimmer of Genius (at least in my deck). Freeing up 4 slots for something which affects board-state or advances Approach.
I've been keeping Search for Azcanta in v agro (keeping it uncast until graveyard is close to flip) so will use that 3rd colorless for a Field of Ruin.
Great deck - congrats on the PPTQ result!
Others on this thread are more knowledgeable than me but FWIW:
1. I'm running 3/3 Settle the Wreckage/Fumigate blend at the moment. I board out all three Fumigate and all three Approach of the Second Sun. Torrential Gearhulk can't be Lost Legacy so I +2 there as well as +4 Regal Caracal.
2. I feel the kitties are essential here to stabalize life. I basically follow the gameplan for #1 because that is what is available in my sideboard. And I'll apologize for continuing to promote the same card, but I really believe Baffling End helps here too. I think it is the UW version of Fatal Push. Enchantment speed but will take out another tier of creature unless they have Revolt triggered. . .
I played around with this build a little bit. I liked it but I found myself missing the sweepers. With Baffling End the board is now in a better state so I am more resilient to a countered Settle the Wreckage or Fumigate. At least that is what I'm finding.
That #13 PTQ deck is pretty sweet. When I last played Esper I didn't have a mechanism to trigger revolt on Fatal Push so I didn't love that card. In this deck, Evolving Wilds can do that as well as find a Plains when it is time to Approach. 4 Approach of the Second Sun, 3 Field of Ruin, 3 Search for Azcanta and no reliance on sweepers. Bontu's Last Reckoning is in there but it looks like a card of last resort. There is a lot to like there.
Every time I think I'm decided I see a shiny new Esper build which makes me reconsider. . .
Thanks for pointing this one out as well!
Thanks for posting! That is an interesting Approach variant. Glad to see Baffling End get some play. I think it's a great addition to the UW Approach decks. From my perspective, it actually scales fine since so many decks have key early creatures like Longtusk Cub, Bomat Courier, Winding Constrictor which the opposition will have playsets of. And it can take out almost all the merfolk.