Yeah I don't blame you much for the kills past Vezok's death like I said, you were between a rock and a hard place, with too much confirmed town in your plate. Which is why I said GJ kill was a misplay, game could've gone much differently if you had killed somebody else. Who would've made a better choice? No idea. But just imagine it had been Grape for example, or KJ. This game could've gone pretty differently.
Regarding the setup, I'll be repeating my issues with it. The neutral probably should've been just a VT, the 1-time shot was kind of a weird weapon for scum to have, and the cop's choice limitations just didn't feel right with the setup, though I feel that one is closer to something that works.
The neighborhoods are great when used correctly, moreso for Town. Discord is nice for some added flexibility. Ideally the setup should be pretty low on non-vanilla as in here.
As for the f3:
I don't think KJ could ever have been scum here with the clear on Grape, it completely threw Vezok off. Clearing who your buddy is accusing would be a lolplay.
Terry would've had more chances convincing KJ than convincing Grape imo. Correct play would've been NKing grape and gun for my lynch. I find that, usually, the simpler play is ideal.
GJ kill n1 was pretty bad. I'd hedge it was scum's biggest misplay. The osie kill didnt matter as much as we made out to be, nor vaimes kill. At that point there was just too many conftown for Terry to win.
@Arc: I mean, Terry's only way to proceed in the game, whether he is scum or not, is to go after you tomorrow when I get lynched. So it's weird to see him pointing out posts of yours that are hugely pro-town. Like, when I die and flip scum, he now has to overcome points he has made for you. It's very odd.
But I'm pretty sure it's just him making a mistake as scum. I'm going back and forth between you guys, but it's 60/40 in favor of Terry being scum currently.
I suppose. Though it's not like he would have much of a choice, since it's been pointed out before by others enough that he would have to counter them anyway. Appearing confident here sounds more efficient for scum here than being open-ended anyhow, because if they succeed in surviving they still go to f3 with a pretty much confirmed town, throwing themselves into a 1v1 thunderdome. By not comitting however, they reveal their hand of simply trying to survive the day with whichever way looks like it'll gain traction.
Note I'm talking to you here as an effective post-game, because
Arc kind of changes directions from Vaimes onto Vezo, I have a really hard time believing that he would do that as scum onto his own partner especially considering Vezo's conditional ability.
This is a great pro-town point for Arc,and it's very odd to see Terry make it here.
For the record, I have this soulread that Terry is town. His setup talk looked genuine, idunno. Plus the interactions I mentioned earlier with Vezok. I'll just assume Vezok played a very level 1 mafia game and was legit trying to make a case on Terry before deciding he had more solid stuff on Vaimes and parking there. It'd have been nice to see some more proper stuff from Terry to flesh this out more easily instead of mostly recaps, but whatever.
If you're mafia, you're either godfather or scum with killjoy, so consider yourself locktown.
Hmm. It would explain the Osie kill. Though "keeping us alive" for last night is like I said a dubious avenue of thought since it was pretty straightfoward for that night only.
There's a couple of things keeping me from accepting scum!Killjoy as a reality though, but since i'm here I might as well make questions.
By three scum, I mean three mafia. GJ was pretty much a nerfed VT who didn't win with town normally (what a godawful role... sorry shadowlancer but its just so bad...) so he's pretty much town for calculations.
As for kill theorizing, I don't think you can gleam anything from it. Vaimes was an objectively good target, regardless of where the scum is. The Osie kill didn't make sense, like we've talked before but... /shrug
Cyan and Vezok had pretty much the same pushes up until the very end, where it was obvious Vezok was getting lynched no matter what, and if he did somehow not get lynched, then vezok would've had to present some outstanding day play to wiggle himself out, so it wouldn't be too dubious to unvote him afterwards. I honestly care very little for Cyan putting him at L-1(L-2? w/e). Scum's true colors show when they think they're not being observed too closely.
Besides, you insist he's playing accordingly to his recent town games, but he said it himself he's been away from mafia for like a year or whatever how long, so how could you think that meta is trustworthy?
I'm relying on this setup not having 3 scum. I think that'd be pretty scumsided, even if it's possible. If town mislynches in D1 (6v3v1), vezok shoots at night + mafia's KPN and WCS D2 begins with (3v3v1), where town has to sucessfully lynch mafia every single day to win including f3. So even if it's possible, it's so rough on town that I just don't want to think of that scenario.
Regarding the setup, I'll be repeating my issues with it. The neutral probably should've been just a VT, the 1-time shot was kind of a weird weapon for scum to have, and the cop's choice limitations just didn't feel right with the setup, though I feel that one is closer to something that works.
The neighborhoods are great when used correctly, moreso for Town. Discord is nice for some added flexibility. Ideally the setup should be pretty low on non-vanilla as in here.
As for the f3:
I don't think KJ could ever have been scum here with the clear on Grape, it completely threw Vezok off. Clearing who your buddy is accusing would be a lolplay.
Terry would've had more chances convincing KJ than convincing Grape imo. Correct play would've been NKing grape and gun for my lynch. I find that, usually, the simpler play is ideal.
GJ kill n1 was pretty bad. I'd hedge it was scum's biggest misplay. The osie kill didnt matter as much as we made out to be, nor vaimes kill. At that point there was just too many conftown for Terry to win.
I suppose. Though it's not like he would have much of a choice, since it's been pointed out before by others enough that he would have to counter them anyway. Appearing confident here sounds more efficient for scum here than being open-ended anyhow, because if they succeed in surviving they still go to f3 with a pretty much confirmed town, throwing themselves into a 1v1 thunderdome. By not comitting however, they reveal their hand of simply trying to survive the day with whichever way looks like it'll gain traction.
Note I'm talking to you here as an effective post-game, because
the game will end. :^)
Odd how?
You're being noncomittal.
If you're mafia, you're either godfather or scum with killjoy, so consider yourself locktown.
make up your mind mate
There's a couple of things keeping me from accepting scum!Killjoy as a reality though, but since i'm here I might as well make questions.
Why did you check Grapefruit, again?
Why is it "maybe" me here?
As for kill theorizing, I don't think you can gleam anything from it. Vaimes was an objectively good target, regardless of where the scum is. The Osie kill didn't make sense, like we've talked before but... /shrug
Besides, you insist he's playing accordingly to his recent town games, but he said it himself he's been away from mafia for like a year or whatever how long, so how could you think that meta is trustworthy?
I'm relying on this setup not having 3 scum. I think that'd be pretty scumsided, even if it's possible. If town mislynches in D1 (6v3v1), vezok shoots at night + mafia's KPN and WCS D2 begins with (3v3v1), where town has to sucessfully lynch mafia every single day to win including f3. So even if it's possible, it's so rough on town that I just don't want to think of that scenario.
Why do you suspect Killjoy? When are they ever scum over Cyan?