I'm sorry to see you go, Sene. Having kept an eye on CI and community events since the website's inception, unfortunately I can't say I'm surprised it came to having to step down. The best way to make instigators like the mod lounge leakers less effective is to not react to them. While I agree they are doing nothing but harm to MTGS, the true blame for damage to the website's image falls on the shoulders of the ridiculously over-zealous, self-righteous sub group that takes every political or staff issue on the website and proceeds to turn it into a fight against "the man". In an ironic twist, this handful of people who are there at every turn to try and twist any given website issue into some conspiracy, have only ultimately put much, much more stress on the forums than there would be if they would just shut their mouths and leave things alone.
I'm not going to name names, because they know who they are. Frankly, it's about time that the staff stopped giving into them and said enough is enough. I see what many of them claim to be as being in the best interest of the website, as wrestling for control and power without having the label. If you think about it, those individuals have had more control over the direction and end result of political squabbles on this website than the actual staff has had in quite some time. If MTGS were denied the Curse deal -a completion of which is really only beneficial to the community as a whole- it's not because of anything the staff has done but because of several individuals who will not keep their collective noses out from where they don't belong.
Here's some food for thought:
Once again, the majority of this drama comes from The Gutter, it's supporters and side-line commentators, and those that vicariously take part in the forum drama through providing commentary (whom have no stake in it staying or going and just feel the need to assert their voice). The drama ultimately stems from a sub-community on the website that does not consist of even close to 10% of our every day user base. If Curse does a 180 after seeing all this unfold over drama regarding that subgroup and a lack of control over their shenanigans and far too willingness to try to be transparent with them over issues regarding their subgroup, then that is damaging the other 90%+ of the user base. I'm not here putting The Gutter or it's users down because of some blind hatred for The Gutter; No, I'm here to say that this much energy and time being put into a very, very tiny portion of the community that neither really belongs here nor is mandatory is not right. Staff turn over and burn out due to something of a sub culture that is so miniscule is, to be blunt, asinine.
It's time for those users to let go or relocate elsewhere if things are supposedly that terrible here for them, because their issues do not effect the users who are here to use MTGS as a resource for what it was intended to be. They may have been in the right in some previous instances, but in this instance their interference from them and their supporters leaking in the staff are being nothing but selfish. This is a Magic: the Gathering community, not 4chan. If you ruin a deal that benefits the greater majority of the user base and Magic: the Gathering players here over your selfishness regarding your sub community and issues with authority, then that says a lot more about your characters than anything you try to push off onto our staff members. It's just plain time to shut the **** up. (No I'm not flaming, I'm using a very stern tone).
I'll just flat out tell you as the founder of this website: This website was not made for you to idle in an invisible sub forum and to provide you a soap box. This website was created as a haven for Magic: the Gathering players who want to discuss the card game and to save a community that actually had problems that lead to the entire staff leaving it's former home (the ridiculous comparisons of which to our small time political bullcrap need to stop, by the way) The fact that all this drama has stemmed from a subgroup that doesn't even remotely have to do with Magic: the Gathering discussion is a load of bollocks, and insulting to everyone who registers here for the purpose of being part of the community proper. Posting here was, is and will continue to be a privilege, not a right. Having a Debate, Water Cooler Talk or hidden sub forum is also a privilege. It's time that those users started to recognize that fact, and it's time for the staff to begin to enforce that fact. To further provide some perspective, those were an addendum to the forum structure that was brought over from MTGNews. MTGNews functioned without those and was very, very active in it's prime and frankly we would've been fine too. Stop and think about that for a moment.
When was the last time we actually had an issue regarding the state of a Magic: the Gathering discussion forum on this forum that was even treated like as a big of a deal as this entire, ridiculous Gutter saga? Other than a disgruntled user that got mad because they broke a rule they should've followed and got a warning? The competitive forum structure and moderatorship has been great for a long time, the mod situation in those areas is stable and the Rumor Mill is under control and we don't get a thread every other day from some disgruntled user who wanted to treat a Spam Warning like they got banned. Things where they actually should matter on this forum are in pretty good shape. That is what is actually important, and too many people have lost sight of that.
Frankly, I wish I were in that admin position again now that I'm nearly 7 years older and 7 years wiser. Energy and resources should be directed to how we can improve Magic: the Gathering discussion, not how we can help a small subgroup of users to make them feel empowered. Not by validating those users through granting too much recognition and time to issues that have no place in the big picture, only to have them abuse their priveledges as users on this website. Not to users who repeatedly abuse our staff who volunteer their time to help on a website about a card game they love, so they can turn around and get chased off with torches and pitchforks over issues that don't even belong here.
- Gentleman Johnny
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Member for 16 years, 2 months, and 29 days
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Kelzam posted a message on tl;dr 2 - Burnout, WWYD, and LeaksPosted in: Community Discussion -
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atlseal posted a message on The Mafia Council & Helpdesk ThreadIf someone wants to gather the information, that's fine for them, but from where I'm sitting, the mafia section is in no danger. I won't stop someone if they want to gather all that, I'm just telling you it's doomsaying nonsense and probably a waste of better-spent time.Posted in: Mafia -
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liquid_water posted a message on September Banlist Announcement: Primeval Titan/Worldfire banned, Kokusho unbannedPosted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from MRHblueAs always your kind words go a long way. I am shocked you feel this way.
If you like him, house UNban it, most of us do not like how he centralized the game. The RC took note, Sheldon is not on some personal mission to ban cards he dislikes.
He does have a point though, not to put poop in the pot, but he follows the legitimate uses argument like hermit druid. When the RC says druid has legitimate uses, but then bans a card for format warping... it's frustrating to even attempt to follow the banlist logic because there is none. It's simple, the banlist bans cards people don't like with no rhyme or reason to it. Which is fine, if you go into this format knowing that, it's easy to not get mad. One minute the banlist is a suggestion, then the next it's not a suggestion it's a banlist. There are so many tangents with the banlist and the RC that it's frustrating to keep all the stories straight. That's probably why he's pissed.
It's easy to not get mad when you know the list caters to whiners, which it does. -
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Sene posted a message on tl;dr - A Plea to the UserbaseUsually Community Issues is about regular users voicing concerns about the staff, but here I am as an admin of the site, trying to express my personal concerns about the regular users of this forum. A little backwards, but I feel this must be said. I won't quote anyone or call anyone out. This is not about that.Posted in: Community Discussion
First off, I love this site. I've been here since I was fifteen, basically a kid. Now I'm 23, and been an active member of this website for almost a third of my life. It means a lot to me. When I'm in this admin position now, spending enormous amounts of free time here, it is only because I would like to do my part to make this site the best it can possibly be.
However, doing it has unfortunately become a massive chore. During the past couple of months, the negativity has been absolutely relentless. The vocal userbase has become so hostile towards us that I wonder why I'm putting in all this effort, hundreds upon hundreds of hours, sacrificing most of my spare time, trying to help all of you out. I just came back from an 8-day break from everything that's the internet, and already I feel like I'm running on empty. When I got that feeling only a few hours in, my alarm bells started ringing.
There is nothing I would love more than just resigning and be done with it (slight exaggeration there, but hey). All this CI drama, all this nonsense about our corruption, all these attacks on the staff - a staff with members who put in multiple hours every day for the site, and don't have a penny to show for it. To be perfectly frank, being an admin of this site has been a pretty crappy job during the last few months.
I do not mind if you think we do a poor job. I don't mind if you post in Community Issues about it. I wouldn't even mind if you asked for the resignation of one of us (myself included). What I do mind is when these threads evolve into being the host of absolutely insane claims of tyranny and corruption, that we're trolling the userbase, excessively sarcastic and unfriendly posts, obscene exaggerations, unpleasantness, and ridiculous posts in general. These posts are 100% counterproductive, serve only to derail what could have been a productive discussion, and they bury real, legitimate concerns under a sea of ludicrousness. This is partly why I've been pushing for more Summits in the future, because those AIM convos would hopefully not include those kinds of messages, but get right to the heart of the issue and leave that which doesn't belong at the door.
Like, if I've done an error, and want to call me out on it? By all means, do so, I will take the criticism to heart. However, if you choose to go over the top and post hyperboles and insults as well, my natural reaction is to instead defend myself. In the Gloves thread, for example, my natural reaction was to defend rianalnn, because of the many preposterous accusations that had been leveled against him, even though some of them were legitimate and needed to be addressed (and were, once we could sit down and talk calmly). There is no need to go overboard. Keep it real.
But I'm not just talking about CI threads, but also the Gutter Pegging Chamber thread, where a discussion about compromise is taking place. I was deeply involved in this thread for a long time - during the first couple of weeks, I fought a large part of the rest of the staff on behalf of the Gutter, so to speak, because I believed that a compromise was the way to go. Most senior staffers disagreed with me, and I got a lot of grief for doing what I felt was right. Within a week or two later, however, I started getting the feeling that the Gutter members would mess this up themselves by being unnecessarily hostile, and acting exactly like the average naysayer on staff said they would. This worried me, because I was pretty sure that the only way to find a successful resolution would be by being reasonable. I decided to call them out on it, because I figured something needed to be done, and I got burned. That moment I decided to just drop it. I'd still be in favor of a compromise, but I wouldn't fight for it like I had, and if nothing came out of it, I felt that many Gutter members (not all!) had only themselves to thank if it ended up being closed after all.
I get that this is a topic that you care deeply about. It's your social space, of course you care. But don't shoot yourself in the foot by harassing staff members over and over and calling dissenters "trolls". You win people to your side by being reasonable and factual. You lose them again once you start trolling.
If you want a drama thread to be resolved in a satisfactory manner, it depends on YOU as well. Every regular user, you all make a difference if you choose to participate, and whether it's a positive or negative contribution depends on you alone. It's not about your opinion, it's about how you arrive at it, and how you present it. That's what matters. If you and I disagree, that's cool. But keep it factual, and keep it respectful. If we all do this, we will surely find a solution that we can be satisfied with, and that benefits the site in the long run.
Additionally, I would like to ask you to at least try to cut the staff some slack. So often, users seem to just assume the worst right away. This is extremely draining. Usually there is more to an issue than what you already know, and we tend to have good reasons for our actions if you let us explain them before jumping to conclusions. And when we don't have good (or good enough) reasons, we'll review our decision, and possibly reverse it, if warranted. We do that, since we're very much human and make mistakes (sometimes huge ones, no doubt), and are willing to admit them. But some amount of goodwill from the users sure would help.
In the end, I want you all to remember that we all actually want the same thing. It shouldn't be Users vs. Staff. It should be Users & Staff. We as a staff need to work on this, and you, regular users of this forum, need to do this as well.
Finally, while this is not actually my resignation letter, we're pretty close. I'm getting seriously worn out, and once this starts to impact my life in a negative way, I have to reconsider prioritizing this site like I have until now. I care for it a whole lot though, so my preferred decision is to stay, but I would lie if I said it would take a lot for me to hand in my badge at this point. There's only so much one can put up with. -
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Iso posted a message on The Mafia Council & Helpdesk ThreadUpdate on the subforum cleaning:Posted in: Mafia
All sign-up threads have been moved to the "Old Sign-Ups" area. Old threads asking, "how do i play? lol" and "come play on this site!!1" and other such things have been purged. Currently about 2/3 down Page 2 in regards to game labeling. Once I'm done with Page 2, I'm going to sleep. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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If that doesn't happen, I don't see what makes this guy any less special than Olivia, Niv-Mizzet, in the department of "untap and I probably win". This guy just has generally more risk attached to him, at the cost of being a slightly faster clock.
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That forum is not the place for jokes, especially one that advocates the use of violence. Maybe the thought of punching someone repeatedly is amusing to you, but it wouldn't be to a lot of other people.
And from what I read, I assume that people who post in RLA *gasp* want real life advice.
A user broke a very serious rule of the forum. It's really that simple, discretion or not.
Why does someone who does not agree with your viewpoint have to be 'trolling'?
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I just want a highlight a few I have seen:
Now I could keep going, but I think my point here is clear: There is far too much of these potshots being taken at each others expense, and some of these aren't even against the moderators. But here our a list of points I wanted to make about this whole situation. Note that again, this is my suggestion/opinion, not any type of formal request
1). This negativity has to stop if any productivity is going to take place.
No one is going to argue or talk things out logically if every other post is a snipe, troll or flame. All that's going to happen is that we are all going to circle jerk for God knows long. So if you don't have something nice/productive to say, shove it.
2). Users asking for moderator resignations.
You are so so so out of line here, it revolts me. If this (bannings/Curse) is the moderator's version of handling things poorly, the "Gloves" thread is the user's version. The posts in there asking for Arcadic's resignation, how dare you. Complain to an administrator, talk it out, but publicly asking for someone to step down: What exactly did you think would happen? Would Arcadic happily oblige, or were you just trying to fan the flames?
3). Agree to Disagree
To anyone who thinks Kpaca or Kijin should be unbanned, I would be astonished if we could ever talk together and cooperate. The others who were banned are debatable (bar Clock King), but those two goofed so hard when they were already on the thinnest ice imaginable, and to consider giving them yet another chance is so beyond me, I don't even have the (appropriate) words for it. There is one thing I agree with Arcadic in his rant: Who ever is leaking this information is not doing the site a service at all. That person may have single handily ruined any potential deal with Curse, and should quite frankly, be ashamed of themselves.
Rant over. We should all be chilling right now, and be a little kinder to each other.
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My biggest problem with EDH currently is not the game itself, but playing with people outside of my play group. I have 3-5 people I typically play with, and whose decks I feel are on par, or even better then some of mine. The only unspoken rule is to not drag games longer than they should probably go (Id Est, don't spite wrath or anything of that kin).
But when I go to stores, and occasionally play with other people, the levels vary quiet differently. Occasionaly, there is the cool guy who plays Zur as a graveyard reanimation deck, but then, you get the mono red jerkhole who plays a bunch of dick cards, with no other purpose than to slow the game to a grinding hault (running Worldfire, Storm Cauldron) without ways to actually use them for his own benefit. Then, you have play groups who just have different power levels, or have their own rules. I remember getting hit with an unhinged card that did something similiar to Thieves Auction and everyone else was ok with it save me, but I had to bite my tongue.
Tl:dr I realize not everyone may enjoy picking up new decks (or have the funds to do so), but building a new EDH deck and exploring the combination is likely the best way to rekindle the flame of fun. If the problem that persists is the other players bum rush for their combo, I think that's more of a people problem than a game problem. Also, I doubt I will ever tire playing with the same 4 people.
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