Well, you kind of need to re-read the sequence here, since leaving the vote on you/Osie was exactly what I did, and no hemming or hawing was involved. I expressed a certain amount of irritation/frustration about Osie dropping out and being unable to cross-examine him, but not that.
And, dude, the "dazzling" thing is just saying that nothing you posted, in the few post you did make, screamed "Townie" to me. Which, they might have? It's happened before. There was no expectation there, however. It was not a demand that you dazzle me or else. It was an observation.
You were 100% hemming and hawing.
We would appear to have very different definitions of "hemming and hawing."
Wonderful addition to the thread, 30 minutes before trying to redirect from a dead townie.
DV is probably town, but his reads should be actually straight ignored for the remainder of the game. You remember when I flip how he kept tunneling between two townies and you say no to any attempt to wagon Proph.
Grape's voting record is abysmal and is likely a wolf.
Listen to Proph/LW.
Axel is a coin flip. Dota is probably a wolf.
Don't really care about the rest of the middle.
I don't count this as a mislynch for me. Ill self pres anyone that isn't me, LW, or Proph
I don't really care about the rest of the seemingly silent partners in this game. Maybe I am wrong, but probably correct
DV is a death tunneler last I remember. Unless something wolfy (to him) slaps him across the face, he sticks to reads.
My point on KJ is nothing to do with meta. He is more than competent enough to know if he was a wolf, it makes sense to commit to a read. I think most people also recognize hedgeyness can be a sign of wolfiness. Especially on well read/polarizing, or heavy posters.
I liked DoTA's posts 259, 306, and 437/438. On the other hand, I did not like his most recent post (where he justified his GJ vote). So DoTA is kind of a tossup for me. I would still rather flip in killjoy/Grape.
And honestly? I feel more certain about Grape being scum atm than KJ.
Unvote, vote Grapefruit21
I mean Im still hung up on what wolf!Grape was thinking when he re-evaluated GJ's slot after he found out it was Osie, it just doesn't seem like a wolfy thing to do. I would like him to be more of a voice though, since he managed to destroy wolves in the game I was in with him, where I was a wolf, and here, he is just kinda average?
Kind of how I feel about KJ. It just doesn't wolfy make sense to hedge on probably the most polarizing player in the game.
Also you ingored the other half of his reason for the vote, but keep saying that you are not agenda based.
"X needs to go" or "X needs to be resolved" makes sense if we were dealing with some sort of mechanical dichotomy, but in a game like this then I think it's a lazy/scummy reason to justify your vote.
I'm fine with GJ talking/probing to Axel about Axel's stance on him, while voting DoTA for what seems to be a bad post. DoTA is still ultimately kind of null to me (he's had some good posts and some bad posts, he is going to be my top reread priority going into the Night). I tried to skim some of his games and ultimately he has kind of a consistent tone as either alignment; I'll see if I can do a more focused read-through on him sometime in the next 4 hours.
Dota pretty much said he doesn't care what I flip. Osie/me had bad posts, and I am information.
I also still don't get how Proph gets any read, tmi or not, unless you are 100% on me flipping wolf. Like at some point, if he was trying for town credit on Cross, he would just eventually ring out his hands. Here, he has been loud from my interpretation.
Quote from Axel »
"Feels awkward" is, of course, an impossible standard to argue, in as much as he's supposedly giving his personal feeling about a post(s). I mean, I was not feeling awkward. I know this. I was trying to be humorous. What is "awkward" anyway? If he had tried to actually break this feeling down and explain what he believed to be awkward we might have been able to have a conversation there, but, he doesn't do that.
It's a more wordier way of saying bad tone. It hits the ear wrong. Or unnatural like your are being forced. What he meant specifically I don't know, but this isn't new mafia language.
I sped read through the rest, and lol dota.
I wasn't trying to push a dichotomy at all.
Would you tell us if you were?
here are more town players than scum players so T/T is not something that can ever be ruled out entirely except in very specific circumstances. But I was more inclined to believe it was either T/W or W/W, based on my belief that yours is a scumslot.
So you were just hedging on it then? What does that have to do with Axel then? Why do you need to specify what our interaction is, are you saying Axel is completely null if I flip wolf? What about axels posting towards me makes you even think out typing the w/w?
You list the order you want players eliminated if you're voted out, with Grape as your top read, in the same post accuse Axel of having an agenda, and then vote me seven posts later when I point out that I want you eliminated. With the amount of discussion your slot has generated your's would be the most informative flip for today, especially to me as you've been my top scum read for the majority of the day.
What does informative matter? Why isn't this just "I think GJ/Cross is the most likely to flip wolf? I seemingly do nothing for your read on Axel. Do you have proph as a wolf if I flip town or something, or are you with axel that proph is potentially my buddy.
Also, since you were on, you were tempted to hammer, were aware of what I asked, and didn't think to respond to it? This post looks so ridiculously planned, it will actually hurt a tiny bit if I git got.
@GJ
Maybe I am projecting too much, expecting you to play a certain way. But I don't appreciate you telling me to just hammer you. I want to find you if you are town, and your slot has been one of my fenciest slots. So I am/was trying to solve you, especially give your train size.
Proph/Dota? Maybe? If it's not GJ
I don't appreciate the expectations being asked of me and the assumptions of me ghosting or not doing enough. We will have to call it even, won't we?
Quote from Axel »
Well, you kind of need to re-read the sequence here, since leaving the vote on you/Osie was exactly what I did, and no hemming or hawing was involved. I expressed a certain amount of irritation/frustration about Osie dropping out and being unable to cross-examine him, but not that.
And, dude, the "dazzling" thing is just saying that nothing you posted, in the few post you did make, screamed "Townie" to me. Which, they might have? It's happened before. There was no expectation there, however. It was not a demand that you dazzle me or else. It was an observation.
You were 100% hemming and hawing.
Replaced out? Really?
That just completely kneecaps everything I was doing. His total lack of engagement with me and hand-waving my issues was something he was going to have to address or get voted out. How is GJ supposed to address that?
and this? I was prepared to really get into the weeds on this remark. B/C on its face it seems like complete bull. How can I do that now?
/rant
Quote from
Still on my phone for the moment. I really feel like writing a quite lengthy dissertation on how scummy what Osie (ostensibly) was doing was. But I’m not sure if it is worth the words.
My other option seems to be pivoting to examine Proph and whether his completely unjustified faith in Osie could possibly be coming from a genuine Town mindset.
I'm doing July 4th stuff today. I'll try to have something more comprehensive to say tomorrow. I don't "think" I'm getting away from Crossbell/Osie though. GJ isn't dazzling me with his Towniness so far, and Osie was just pretty bad.
Quote from Bateleur »
That's you complaining since I got here about how unfair the replacement is, and how I magically didn't dazzle you in a short period of time. You were already voting for cross, did him magically saying something wolfier seemingly going by your context really bother you? Or were you more bothered at the fact that I might not have been the lynch for today?
Man your slot is just a big bad of controversy isn't it? 3/4 days is more than half of the day phase, so sure? Honestly man I want to really attack that post but it's completely irrelevant to the game at hand, I want you to post, because I can read you when you post, your previous holder did you no justice. I will vote you off, and I won't even blink twice if somehow you flip town. Your statement isn't far to the other players also holding your win-con.
I'm pretty sure this puts you back at L1, I'm not going to even check lmao, that's how much I don't care for your post above
[b]Vote: GJ[/]
L1 again, I presume
Controversy? See how I wasn't on the original replacement list? I have had no working computer for the last month. I have my phone which I loathe to type, and while I was preparing my house to have guests over, Highroller asked me to fill in. The only reason he would do that is in classic MTGS fashion, the sub list either didn't exist or was exhausted. I don't think Cross did anything too wrong, but for better or worse, you got me. I said from the very start I didn't have a computer, and tried to read the game, and throw some analysis out from the first day I got here. The fact that I am being told it's not good enough is whatever. When I get called for ghosting over a [b]mother******* holiday weekend where I only have my phone[/b]. Also I was actively posting on Friday to an extent, and mostly waiting for responses back. The fact of the matter is that the only reason I put forth an effort was that there was apparently no one else to do so.
Now that I got the salt out, what miracles are you hoping to pull out of my ass? You know how I feel about replacements, if you were ready to end the day on Cross/Osie/whoever, why waste my time with the replacement? I don't even know what the current deadline is since opening is still showing it as the 2nd of July. The role is town, and honestly, I don't even know why my slot got run up. I can't find a significant reason that Osie/Cross would want to be the center of attention, which is what the tone should have been indicative of. Instead, the wagon popped out of nowhere, Proph get chainsaw defended for being alarmed at how quick it built up, is being consideered for wolf as well by a lot of people? Like lol at all of you.
I think I would have thought Axel 10x better if he just left his vote on me and went this changes nothing, instead of hemming and hawing about replacements and then finding a way to get back on because I can't dazzle him from the 2nd-4th of July.
Quote from Dota »
Interesting that Axel is on your eliminate list, I've found him to be townier as he posts more.
[b]Tempted to hammer, but I still owe you an answer from earlier and this day is not over yet.[/b]
The bolded is so bad, I can't believe anyone is even considering me.
"GJ isn't dazzling me despite only being in the game for 3/4 days over a holiday weekend."
Why did I agree to sub in again?
Quote from LW »
@Proph
btw I still do not think GJ has to be town here, I am still thinking he is a wolf.
Then get the hammer back on and don't waste my time.
As far as KJ goes, I think him being hedgey is more leaned toward TWTBW. Even basic wolves would think to go one direction or another. His lack of push elsewhere (until recently) was more of a red flag to me.
Grape > Dota > Axel if I fall. Axel lost stock with me as I feel this
Quote from Axelrod »
GJ isn't dazzling me with his Towniness so far, and Osie was just pretty bad.
This doesn't read genuine or good faith to me. This reads like an agenda being pushed.
Mostly keeping up via phone. Computer was finally fixed so I was back online, but I thought I'd have a bit of breathing room to catch up given the holiday. Does not appear to be the case.
DotaArchon, the guy who plays my favorite game. I just haven't liked his tone. I thought his post about me/Axel being unlikely V/V, but more likely W/V or W/W just reads bad.
Favourite game? What about my tone seems off to you?
@Axel: Took the words right out of my mouth.
You seem to want a force a dichotomy there, and it felt like a particulary forced one as well. Yeah, you say we might be V/V but that's not where you seem to lean. If we assume I never subbed in, would you still have thought Axel could be w/w with me?
GJ, will you around more Monday/Tuesday? Can probably do some real time with you then. (I will also try my best to defend you/prevent you from being lunched; hopefully my schedule is freer tonight)
Quote from Cantripmancer »
Why do you say this?
Wisp was pussyfooting around voting me/Osie for the entirety of the game, and I literally told him to vote me multiple times if he believed I was mafia. That's why I said that.
Quote from Gentleman Johnny »
Wut.
In my past games with Wisp, when he was town and I was a wolf, I generally locked him as town or cleared him quite quickly, because I had TMI knowledge that he was town. That's why I asked him that question. I genuinely don't know what Wisp's alignment is this time, which is why I pushed him for the first half of the game.
Yeah, a buddy should be fixinng my computer today or tomorrow. I got my part. I haven't played dota 2 in a month and I am jonesing.
What did you mean, "I see where Crossbell is coming from" if you didn't agree with it?
Post 311
I don't get this critique of Proph. This is a really common thing to say. It's basically saying I don't agree with a statement, but can see why they think that way. This is a pretty common think in conversation even outside of mafia.
Just a little bit down, don't get your feels about Grape. He is more than capable of making a post like that as a wolf (Grape was the player I missed up above. Put him right below KJ).
Post 329
I can't obviously speak for Cross @DV, but it really feels like you took a meme very seriously.
Osie re-evaluating me looks better, I don't what the hell your re-evaluation was
Did you want me to talk about my thought process behind this? I alluded to my approach a little earlier but I can go more in-depth if you'd like.
Quote from Wisp »
my wolf game is abysmal, so like IDK why u keep talking about being snowed
Because like I said - I genuinely do not know what your alignment is this time. Has wolf me ever pushed town you?
Wut.
I don't really have much more to add to this. I do much better on reads in real time than reevaluating with no bodies. Mostly be on phone for the next day or so, and weekends are still turrible for me. Glgl, I don't count this as a mislynch to my sterling record if I go down.
GJ, the retired person who keeps getting dragged back in
Wisp, guy who feels genuine and solvy
Proph, don't get why he is getting any hate, I don't see it
Axelrod, I don't know, doesn't seem that town, but seems townier than anyone else.
KJ, still doesn't dazzle me
DV, probably straight null. Gun to my head, I move him to town, since he seems interactive but I really got nothing here.
Cantripmancer: That DV read looked real bad. I hesitate as I feel one of the few players left who has played longer than me really makes that move as a wolf, but eh.
DotaArchon, the guy who plays my favorite game. I just haven't liked his tone. I thought his post about me/Axel being unlikely V/V, but more likely W/V or W/W just reads bad.
I am missing someone based on the game name which feels awkward. I could go back to look, but nothing has actually stuck out to me about them to remember they are in the game so take that as you will.
You are currently voting me. Are you telling me to hammer?
I appreciate you Proph. If you are actually a wolf, I respect the amazing dedication to keep my neck out of the noose.
Wonderful addition to the thread, 30 minutes before trying to redirect from a dead townie.
DV is probably town, but his reads should be actually straight ignored for the remainder of the game. You remember when I flip how he kept tunneling between two townies and you say no to any attempt to wagon Proph.
Grape's voting record is abysmal and is likely a wolf.
Listen to Proph/LW.
Axel is a coin flip. Dota is probably a wolf.
Don't really care about the rest of the middle.
I don't count this as a mislynch for me. Ill self pres anyone that isn't me, LW, or Proph
I don't really care about the rest of the seemingly silent partners in this game. Maybe I am wrong, but probably correct
My point on KJ is nothing to do with meta. He is more than competent enough to know if he was a wolf, it makes sense to commit to a read. I think most people also recognize hedgeyness can be a sign of wolfiness. Especially on well read/polarizing, or heavy posters.
Kind of how I feel about KJ. It just doesn't wolfy make sense to hedge on probably the most polarizing player in the game.
Dota pretty much said he doesn't care what I flip. Osie/me had bad posts, and I am information.
It's a more wordier way of saying bad tone. It hits the ear wrong. Or unnatural like your are being forced. What he meant specifically I don't know, but this isn't new mafia language.
I sped read through the rest, and lol dota.
Would you tell us if you were?
So you were just hedging on it then? What does that have to do with Axel then? Why do you need to specify what our interaction is, are you saying Axel is completely null if I flip wolf? What about axels posting towards me makes you even think out typing the w/w?
What does informative matter? Why isn't this just "I think GJ/Cross is the most likely to flip wolf? I seemingly do nothing for your read on Axel. Do you have proph as a wolf if I flip town or something, or are you with axel that proph is potentially my buddy.
Also, since you were on, you were tempted to hammer, were aware of what I asked, and didn't think to respond to it? This post looks so ridiculously planned, it will actually hurt a tiny bit if I git got.
I don't appreciate the expectations being asked of me and the assumptions of me ghosting or not doing enough. We will have to call it even, won't we?
You were 100% hemming and hawing.
That's you complaining since I got here about how unfair the replacement is, and how I magically didn't dazzle you in a short period of time. You were already voting for cross, did him magically saying something wolfier seemingly going by your context really bother you? Or were you more bothered at the fact that I might not have been the lynch for today?
Controversy? See how I wasn't on the original replacement list? I have had no working computer for the last month. I have my phone which I loathe to type, and while I was preparing my house to have guests over, Highroller asked me to fill in. The only reason he would do that is in classic MTGS fashion, the sub list either didn't exist or was exhausted. I don't think Cross did anything too wrong, but for better or worse, you got me. I said from the very start I didn't have a computer, and tried to read the game, and throw some analysis out from the first day I got here. The fact that I am being told it's not good enough is whatever. When I get called for ghosting over a [b]mother******* holiday weekend where I only have my phone[/b]. Also I was actively posting on Friday to an extent, and mostly waiting for responses back. The fact of the matter is that the only reason I put forth an effort was that there was apparently no one else to do so.
Now that I got the salt out, what miracles are you hoping to pull out of my ass? You know how I feel about replacements, if you were ready to end the day on Cross/Osie/whoever, why waste my time with the replacement? I don't even know what the current deadline is since opening is still showing it as the 2nd of July. The role is town, and honestly, I don't even know why my slot got run up. I can't find a significant reason that Osie/Cross would want to be the center of attention, which is what the tone should have been indicative of. Instead, the wagon popped out of nowhere, Proph get chainsaw defended for being alarmed at how quick it built up, is being consideered for wolf as well by a lot of people? Like lol at all of you.
I think I would have thought Axel 10x better if he just left his vote on me and went this changes nothing, instead of hemming and hawing about replacements and then finding a way to get back on because I can't dazzle him from the 2nd-4th of July.
The bolded is so bad, I can't believe anyone is even considering me.
[b]Vote DotaArchon[/b]
"GJ isn't dazzling me despite only being in the game for 3/4 days over a holiday weekend."
Why did I agree to sub in again?
Then get the hammer back on and don't waste my time.
As far as KJ goes, I think him being hedgey is more leaned toward TWTBW. Even basic wolves would think to go one direction or another. His lack of push elsewhere (until recently) was more of a red flag to me.
Grape > Dota > Axel if I fall. Axel lost stock with me as I feel this
This doesn't read genuine or good faith to me. This reads like an agenda being pushed.
Mostly keeping up via phone. Computer was finally fixed so I was back online, but I thought I'd have a bit of breathing room to catch up given the holiday. Does not appear to be the case.
You seem to want a force a dichotomy there, and it felt like a particulary forced one as well. Yeah, you say we might be V/V but that's not where you seem to lean. If we assume I never subbed in, would you still have thought Axel could be w/w with me?
Yeah, a buddy should be fixinng my computer today or tomorrow. I got my part. I haven't played dota 2 in a month and I am jonesing.
Post 311
I don't get this critique of Proph. This is a really common thing to say. It's basically saying I don't agree with a statement, but can see why they think that way. This is a pretty common think in conversation even outside of mafia.
Just a little bit down, don't get your feels about Grape. He is more than capable of making a post like that as a wolf (Grape was the player I missed up above. Put him right below KJ).
GF looking real Sus as I think his vote as an RVS one that didn't budge.
Wut.
I don't really have much more to add to this. I do much better on reads in real time than reevaluating with no bodies. Mostly be on phone for the next day or so, and weekends are still turrible for me. Glgl, I don't count this as a mislynch to my sterling record if I go down.
GJ, the retired person who keeps getting dragged back in
Wisp, guy who feels genuine and solvy
Proph, don't get why he is getting any hate, I don't see it
Axelrod, I don't know, doesn't seem that town, but seems townier than anyone else.
KJ, still doesn't dazzle me
DV, probably straight null. Gun to my head, I move him to town, since he seems interactive but I really got nothing here.
Cantripmancer: That DV read looked real bad. I hesitate as I feel one of the few players left who has played longer than me really makes that move as a wolf, but eh.
DotaArchon, the guy who plays my favorite game. I just haven't liked his tone. I thought his post about me/Axel being unlikely V/V, but more likely W/V or W/W just reads bad.
I am missing someone based on the game name which feels awkward. I could go back to look, but nothing has actually stuck out to me about them to remember they are in the game so take that as you will.