Right, so how does affect your read on fulcrum? Because she wrote a bunch of words about how Vaimes was treating tom and how that made Vaimes mafia and tom town - those thoughts didn't make much sense to me but I don't actually scumread tom so you may have a different perspective on them.
I'll quote her post here for you. Will comment more on tom specifically in a bit.
Taking a person out of your lynch pool is saying they shouldn'y be lynched, aka defending.
I don't really get how this is hard: the majority of people in the game have decided that tom should not be lynched today because gimmick or something, therefore does not have to be worried about being lynched. You are a driving force in that, even though you should know not to be. Like, the reason tom messes around here is because he knows he'll get away with it. He doesn't do that on dlp, because he knows he won't get away with it. He doesn't get away with it there, because we build towncircles, and him obfuscating his reads means he can't get into the towncircles. And that's why lynch pools in general are bad, because it's the people outside the towncircle and the people you have decided not to lynch for non-alignment reason, with nothing distinguishing those two groups. It let's you, Vaimes, avoid Tom's attention without having to townread him.
Where this gets interesting is I actually think Tom is town. The way he backed off me when I asked, several other read timings, the way he responded to Rhand, and the way he looked at the Gemma/me stuff all feel towny. But the way he's been treated this game, I think, goes beyond what can just be expected from this site not caring to lynch him early, into scum deliberately avoiding him. And hey, looks like that weirdness is coming from you and Rhand.
Vote: Vaimes
You have an edge of bravado this game. I was townreading it for a while, after your push on Nacho, and your tango with lastwhisper, but that's all you've done. You're voting Axel, and have basically been on him since the beginning of the game, but don't have any real reasoning for it. You're kind of pushing him, but you're not actually try to convince people to join you. You seem to be coming back into the thread with ideas as they develop, but there mostly one liners for people who annoy you (me, last) not the pointed scumhunting you're capable of. You defended mind both when he wrote his hulk hogan post and when he didn't say anything after. You defended Rhand as an easy early mislynch, but didn't address the actual case against him. You're talking the talk, but not walking the walk.
It's worth mentioning that I iso'd you by control f'ing my way through the game, so I wouldn't be surprised if I missed something relevant. You're likely not scum with mind anyway, because that defense would've felt very, very bad to make as a partner. So, let's have a go, and see where we land, hmm?
-------------
fulcrum
vezokpiraka
Lastwhisper
Gemma
Asta
dkingsland967
tomsloger
Nachomamma8
KittyCupCake
Silvercrys3467
Axelrod
Killjoy
Jackrito
Grapefruit
M1ndreaver
Vaimes
Rhand
I think she's saying that tom is town and the lack of people pushing him goes beyond "lol!tom just ignore him" and that Vaimes/Rhand have TMI because of the way they're handling him.
I don't ~super agree with her analysis, I think, though my read on Vaimes is drifting a bit
I'd have to check my notes to see if tom is wolf reading fulcrum but if they're town reading each other... Lean towards not w/w and if one is a wolf it's probably tom?
Like, I kind of think wolf!fulcrum tries to keep town!tom's lunch open, though I guess that's a bit less likely here since tom's harder to mislunch than on DLP, and wolf!tom probably has a hard time townreading her if they're partners though I'd need to check the timing on his town read
If tom's wolf or null reading her, partners is definitely a possibility but I don't think there's a case against either of them at the moment.
@Gemma this one really feels like the sort of wolfy bulling you're referring to. I haven't done an in depth read yet but this feels like it's building towards a wolf read and then completely undercuts it.
Part of me wants to town read that as scum like to avoid that sort of disconnect in their posts but the thrust of the intent feels anti town to me.
I'm going to do a deeper dive in the morning as that has caught my interest.
so this is grape knowing silver is town and trying to logic himself into wolfreading him
I thought about it a lot. Its not town grape wondering if maybe this gut feeling hes having is wrong, but that doesnt make sense with the "the thrust of the intent feels anti town to me."
Which is first of all an exciting new pioneer into making buzzwords mean even less than usual. But is more importantly completely divorced from what hes talking about.
Like, hes literally talking about silver doing nothing and scumreading it for what its trying to do.
Its the most forced read in this thread. And even knowing towngrape as a player that sort of has to force himself to really push anything because he feels bad if hes wrong this is just beyond the possibility of real thoughts
What the **** though? Where the love go?
Five, four, three, two, where the ones go?
It's a ***** show, put you front row
Talkin' *****, bro? Let your tongue show
As the town is debating on who the traitors are the air becomes warmer and the sky opens up with a warm rain. A crack of thunder made from unnatural force sounds in the sky above. The town watches in awe as the very season changes in front of their eyes.
I don't want to CFD Grape here. I think he's a slot that can pretty easily townclear himself if he's town and I don't want what has happened here to jeopardize our ability to avoid a mislynch like that.
Anyway, here you go, roughly in order of my confidence:
kj: This 100% looks like his town game, and I could read him even before he worked on his town play. If you're somehow scum kj, I'm super impressed, and I won't even care about winning, I'll just be cheering you on from spec
vez: The claim, and how she claimed, are very likely town. Though, this looks like it may be one of those kind of games, so, just don't get too complacent here
axel: The progression on me is so so strange if scum, so... probably town
rhand: His posts have felt... weird. I think that is just a reactionary adjustment to his town play, after so many D1 mislynches and a realization in Watchmen, but I still wanted to keep a close eye here.
nacho:
dk: Still believe his push was the most likely scum on my wagon. I think of him as being precise and calculating as town. which his play has felt like here, except the way he's connected some of his dots feels questionable, which is not something I expect from dk.
vaimes: Vaimes has felt tonally different from my experiences with townVaimes. He did say early that his play would be disconnected here, so it might not be AI. And after seeing his recent explanation for how he interacted with my early-game claiming discussion, and that he was actually trying to reach out and maybe work with me there... I guess townlean
gemma: I can... imagine some possible town motives for her play, but... her interactions with me, and her approach to my wagon, and her interactions with nacho regarding my wagon, they all fit just a little too well into a scum agenda. -After I flip, I hope everyone carefully scrutinizes her in those sections, before just giving her a free pass anyway. And nacho, try not getting too cozy in this pocket
Asta: Completely feels like new town. If scum, it's an incredible performance for someone inexperienced, regardless of how much potential daychat coaching may be going on
grape: I really like grape here. Plus, I still think he kinda town slipped. But... rhand thinks hes scum, and rhand is probably town, and rhand is usually right, so... idk
LW: Has felt fine, I guess. Not sure I know how to read him
silver: Has also felt fine. At a minimum, he's been a bit of a voice of reason regarding my claim, though that could maybe be TMI there??
fulcrum: Nothing has jumped out at me. If she's scum, it's solid scum play, but I think that's to be expected? -No idea what I'd even be looking for here
Tom: I've agreed with most of his reads all game, but... a little hard to read into past that. It'd explain a little of why this game has felt so hard if he is scum, I guess
Keldeo: Ugh. I've really liked his posts since replacing in, but.... Mind. IDK?
Proph: Yaaay! I'm so excited I get to play with you!!!
-Oh.
Right.
Well then... This slot might be mechanically cleared?? But... considering our 95% mechanical scumread is actually town, ummm, I guess, grains of salt all around, please?
KittyCupCake: It's a shame no one here is too familiar with her approach to playing scum, because this "softclaim an amazing role and plan to use it like a townie rather than for causing endless chaos" is, just, so hilariously outside her wolfrange. Ehhh... but a kinda maybe CC in a specialty. -I'm sure this will all be just fine, what could go wrong?
This is a gentle reminder for those who have played with me and those who haven't that I have played this game for over a decade
My skepticism of the cc isn't about me doubting your experience or knowledge of how setups work, I just think that your cc is probably at least partially driven by how strong your scumread on KCC is, and think that setups on MTGS seem to intentionally try to **** with your head regardless of how good at setup spec you are (is kind of part of why I don't play here more often).
No one wants to make him actually claim now, so, have fun with that Tomorrow
It's more that we don't have time to get a lynch on anyone else at this point. What happens if he full claims is most likely: big discussion about the two roles and whether or not they can be the same alignment, everyone argues in circles with examples of how insane past games have been on this site, we end up shrugging and lynching you anyway, nothing changes except mafia have more information about how they want to handle Nacho over the night phase.
Am in the same boat, and I probably wouldn't have advised Nacho to counterclaim if I had a say in it but he did, so this is where we're at now. Don't think we realistically have enough time before deadline to entertain other options regardless.
Axelrod(6) - Vaimes, Killjoy, Lastwhisper, Gemma, Keldeo, vezokpiraka
Dkingsland967 (5) - Silvercrys, Asta, KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21, Nachomamma8
Grapefruit21(2) - fulcrum, tomsloger
KittyCupCake(1) -dkingsland967
Not Voting(4) - fulcrum, Jackrito, Axelrod, Rhand
Day One ends on December 7th at 4PM PST deadline countdown timer
With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Lynch
vote: axel
vote: grape
last wants to lynch axel, we're lynching axel
how are you
nice to see you finally you gorgeous thing
13 hours to deadline people. Get your votes on Axel please, we need to secure a lynch.
Only real solace here is knowing that since we have masons we're probably not going to be CFDing an alignment cop or something stupid like that.
Axel because I think he has decent enough scum equity in a town!KCC world and is a lynch that we should be able to get without significant resistance.
Yes, Killjoy, this is unfortunately Nacho's town play.
Vote: Axelrod
My skepticism of the cc isn't about me doubting your experience or knowledge of how setups work, I just think that your cc is probably at least partially driven by how strong your scumread on KCC is, and think that setups on MTGS seem to intentionally try to **** with your head regardless of how good at setup spec you are (is kind of part of why I don't play here more often).
It's more that we don't have time to get a lynch on anyone else at this point. What happens if he full claims is most likely: big discussion about the two roles and whether or not they can be the same alignment, everyone argues in circles with examples of how insane past games have been on this site, we end up shrugging and lynching you anyway, nothing changes except mafia have more information about how they want to handle Nacho over the night phase.