After picking up the Orzhov guild kit, and witnessing the absurd value of Teysa Karlov, I wanted to give her a try. Sadly, a large amount of players at my LGS have done the same and I don't just want to follow the same deck, so I instead built an OG Teysa variant. I'm still struggling getting any wins or consistency out of this at the moment, mainly feeling like the card draw compared to Teysa Karlov is lacking, with Teysa OS often feeling like a waste of mana to cast at the time or not doing anything to further my board with a lack of white creatures/worthwhile targets to hit. I do plan on whacking a Demonic Tutor in here from one of my other decks to grab pieces for the Darkest Hour or Sun Titan combos, but I wanted some feedback on where I can reduce the amount of times I feel like having a couple of cards in hand and no way to dig?
3 More card draw engines, a tutor and a way of slowing the opponents down plus some better lands. I will also swap in a Dictate of Erebos from my Prossh deck, still not sure on cuts.
I try to build one into every deck if possible. I find no enjoyment in the 2+ hour games where someones janky pet tribal is struggling to get through enough combat damage and someone top decks the 5th board wipe that game.
Dualcaster + Twinflame is one of my favorites, but the tried and true Twin/Exarch or Kiki/Conscripts achieve the same effect. If you like your combos, don't let the "lol random horse tribal" guy put you down by saying he finds your deck boring.
Another bit of nonsense from Sheldon's latest article:
"It's clear that this version of Teysa is meant for the Vampire decks led by Edgar Markov and the like"
Who even would? 4 mana in Edgar for tokens to get Vigilance and Lifelink, am I missing some serious death trigger synergy these decks pack or something?
Edgar Markov is kind of a pain if the pod has 0 interaction early. Ezuri loses to some early hate pieces. Mizzix has fallen to the wayside with other commanders like Kess (who is one of the only "problematic" precon ones I can think of) that do a similar thing. The partners and 4 color generals aren't problematic in of themselves, but more about how they open up so many options with their color identity. For example, artifact combos were already a degenerate playstyle, its just that Breya gets every option outside of green with them. As for the 2018 decks, not a single creature commander from those crops up all that often, but Windgrace sure is popular.
Facilitating different color combo decks isn't really a general creating a degenerate strategy if those strategies already existed in a less consistent state.
Mystical Teachings without Black in its color identity. A few Azami ideas with Naru Meha and Teferi I'd love to tutor up without having to commit to another color. Don't even care about the flashback.
Regarding the possibility of Dack Fayden in the CZ, he would near enough immediately become the most played Izzet general.
Pros:
- 3 mana.
- Free Izzet Charm each turn without needing to spend a card to do so.
- Stealing of mana rocks from turn 2 to accelerate yourself at a silly pace, something the glut of 6 mana Izzet commanders lack (Locust, Melek, the many Nivs).
- Ultimate could then be built around, something which is limited when he is in the 99.
- Plus and minus are relevant at all stages of the game.
Cons:
- You lose commander damage (not a whole swathe of commanders in Izzet care).
- You no longer have synergies in the CZ such as Mizzix or Melek.
I think there needs to be some careful analysis on what PWs like Dack here could do to just straight-up homogenize some color combos based on having multiple FREE activated abilities on them.
I'm currently building a Thrasios + Kraum deck which will mostly just be rammed with different combos. I've become known as a bit of a Dramatic Scepter/Paradox Engine abuser in my other decks (just finished a Lavinia + Knowledge Pool list too) and thought I'd stretch out what combos I can bring to the table. So far I have:
Enlightened Tutor - Not just for voltron or enchantress decks, there's great utility in being able to fetch up Paradox Engine and company outside of Black or Blue. Cyclonic Rift - Its not going away, it needs to just eat a reprint or two given how ubiquitous and unique it is. Toxic Deluge - Another early, non-color intensive sweeper that is just too pricey. Purphoros, God of the Forge - Be it as a general or in the 99, Purph is an incredibly important card for Red. Sylvan Library - Even ignoring some combos with cards like Abundance, this still adds so much draw power to green decks that its a crime to see such a lack of availability. Sensei's Divining Top - Again, this card ranges from staple to absolute powerhouse depending on the deck, but it is never just a straight-up "bad" card to have.
Lasav, the Multifarious - Probably the most enjoyable of the commanders I scrapped, he was just too reliant on a gimmick that was easy to interact with and punish. The usual "infect + pump, infinite power combos" etc just didn't feel good to resolve or win with in the rare occasions that happened. Turned this into a Sidisi list I also recently dismantled, purely due to how often I would lose something I'd rather draw (lands). Never has a non-red deck felt so red to me. I also haven't seen another player pick this up around our LGS either, although there was a little hype on release.
Vaevictus Asmadi, the Dire - Arcades never took off around here ("who wants to play walls?" was the common sentiment) but this guy was heralded as the next big Jund commander besides Prossh. Removal AND a way to abuse the trigger? Sadly, he falls to the same curse a lot of 6 mana commanders who need to swing to do something in 3 colours, coming out too late and relying on high-cmc ratios in his deck. Muldrotha is barely more acceptable for the cmc just because she can recur so much value.
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow - Had a lot of this one from a couple of regular players, felt damn tough to put down too with our meta. Then everyone started picking up things like Estrid stax, and suddenly a commander that has a hard time dealing with enchantments facing down a board of Ghostly Prisons and Stasis effects looked bad. I never built her, but it didn't feel pleasant playing against this deck or if I used a couple of cards to shut it out of the game. Don't really see her at all now.
Pure Hits:
Lord Windgrace - Everyone loves this damn kitty. I've taken my MLD build apart for the misery it induced, but he now sits in my Prossh list as a way to get certain cards into the GY or cycle out dead land draws. I don't have copies of the many $20+ staples LWG requires such as the Oracles and Explorations of the world, so MLD was the only route I was able to go down with any success, but I continue to see plenty of lists about that pack said cards and feel tough to beat.
Estrid - Surprised? So was I. Another one I've taken bits from and that sits half-full in a deck box somewhere for me after a few rounds, but boy does she seem to hit the enchantress spot for others. Stax is the common one with Stasis, Decree of Silence and Authority of the Consuls being regular inclusions in the lists I encounter, but there are a couple of friendlier decks that work off of value at my local.
Muldrotha, the Gravetide - We've already said what needs to be said on her. Graveyard, Stax, Sacrifice, Value combos, she can do a lot in very deep ways for such a simple ability. Thats likely the reason she has stayed on as a staple commander at most EDH tables.
Other than Arena once a week, I only play EDH so here's mine...
1. Prime Speaker Vannifar - Pod in the CZ will be broken in some capacity. Remains to be seen if the colour restriction hampers cEDH play.
2. Bedevil - The sheer versatility is really going to help out my Grixis and Jund builds.
3. Smothering Tithe - Even ignoring that this is on flavor ramp non-green white decks have been dying for, I'm looking forward to abusing this in artifact sac builds.
4. Lavinia, Azorius Renegade - Another hatebear for W/U decks and will absolutely hamper cEDHs early combos.
5. Rhythm of the Wild - The fact that you can have a nigh-impossible to interact with infinite combo between this, Glen-Elendra Archmage and Blasting Station is something thats got me excited to find some more combos outside of it just being solid anti-blue tech.
(Now I'm stretching a bit, not that much to excite this set)
6. Frilled Mystic - U/G elves just got another stapple.
7. Wilderness Reclamation - Yeah, its a worse Seedborn Muse, but redundant/budget options in that department are always a bonus.
8. Shocklands - Because they'll be cheap as chips to pick up right now.
9. Electrodominance - Conspire this with Wort to burn out 2 players and cast a Brass's Bounty off of it sounds solid to me, and thats not even close to how good this card can be.
10. Teysa Karlov - Deatharmonicon with upside seems solid to me in these colours.
As others have said, the PWs seem weak, with a lot of these looking like standard-only cards. Similar to GRN, I expect I'll try a few of these cards before going back to the cards they replaced or dismantling the deck I built around them (sorry Lasav, Niv and Ioni).
Forgive me, because I am not used to playing this type of deck, but I have been intrigued by Vannifar (unsure if I'll be building her or putting her in the 99 of my Kraj deck); how do you win?
I'm surprised there's no Elvish Visionary flickering with that infinite mana, especially since its Pod'able into Labman for the win.
To me this spider doesn't strike me as "that's a neat proactive concept, i have to build this" Commander, but more like Ruric Thar, the Unbowed; a Commander you think would be able to shake your meta up. If you're playing with combo or control focused groups any deck that might want this guy for the general will have little impact. In a way its kind of the opposite to Ruric who focuses on making non-creature deck's lives hell, instead it forces bad situations from creature based decks that might be hoping to hold back from swinging for a latter turn Craterhoof Behemoth.
1 Teysa, Orzhov Scion
Creature
1 Viscera Seer
1 Soul Warden
1 Pitiless Plunderer
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
1 Doomed Traveler
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Doomed Dissenter
1 Hunted Witness
1 Orzhov Enforcer
1 Xathrid Necromancer
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
1 Pious Evangel
1 Hanweir Militia Captain
1 Sengir Autocrat
1 Falkenrath Noble
1 Pawn of Ulamog
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Karmic Guide
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Tithe Taker
1 Imperious Oligarch
1 Teysa Karlov
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Krav, the Unredeemed
1 Plaguecrafter
1 Reveillark
1 Sun Titan
1 Darkest Hour
1 Gift of Immortality
1 Spirit Bonds
1 Vampiric Rites
1 Hidden Stockpile
1 Black Market
1 Blind Obedience
1 Dawn of Hope
1 Smothering Tithe
Land
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Shambling Vent
1 Scoured Barrens
1 Command Tower
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tainted Field
1 Forsaken Sanctuary
12 Plains
12 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Orzhov Guildgate
Artifact
1 Blasting Station
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Oketra's Monument
1 Thaumatic Compass
1 Star Compass
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Marble Diamond
1 Orzhov Locket
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Utter End
1 Return to Dust
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Thrilling Encore
1 Mortify
Sorcery
1 Crux of Fate
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Decree of Pain
1 Dread Return
1 Martial Coup
1 Living Death
Additions Coming:
3 More card draw engines, a tutor and a way of slowing the opponents down plus some better lands. I will also swap in a Dictate of Erebos from my Prossh deck, still not sure on cuts.
Dualcaster + Twinflame is one of my favorites, but the tried and true Twin/Exarch or Kiki/Conscripts achieve the same effect. If you like your combos, don't let the "lol random horse tribal" guy put you down by saying he finds your deck boring.
"It's clear that this version of Teysa is meant for the Vampire decks led by Edgar Markov and the like"
Who even would? 4 mana in Edgar for tokens to get Vigilance and Lifelink, am I missing some serious death trigger synergy these decks pack or something?
Edgar Markov is kind of a pain if the pod has 0 interaction early. Ezuri loses to some early hate pieces. Mizzix has fallen to the wayside with other commanders like Kess (who is one of the only "problematic" precon ones I can think of) that do a similar thing. The partners and 4 color generals aren't problematic in of themselves, but more about how they open up so many options with their color identity. For example, artifact combos were already a degenerate playstyle, its just that Breya gets every option outside of green with them. As for the 2018 decks, not a single creature commander from those crops up all that often, but Windgrace sure is popular.
Facilitating different color combo decks isn't really a general creating a degenerate strategy if those strategies already existed in a less consistent state.
Pros:
- 3 mana.
- Free Izzet Charm each turn without needing to spend a card to do so.
- Stealing of mana rocks from turn 2 to accelerate yourself at a silly pace, something the glut of 6 mana Izzet commanders lack (Locust, Melek, the many Nivs).
- Ultimate could then be built around, something which is limited when he is in the 99.
- Plus and minus are relevant at all stages of the game.
Cons:
- You lose commander damage (not a whole swathe of commanders in Izzet care).
- You no longer have synergies in the CZ such as Mizzix or Melek.
I think there needs to be some careful analysis on what PWs like Dack here could do to just straight-up homogenize some color combos based on having multiple FREE activated abilities on them.
1) Rhythm of the Wild + Glen Elendra Archmage + Blasting Station. Quite hard to interact with providing the Rhythm lands first, also something outside of infinite mana/Labman wins (also in the deck) I'm known to go for.
2) Ghostly Flicker + Peregrine Drake + Archaeomancer. Aside from the drake, the other cards here have uses outside of the combo.
3) Ley Weaver + Freed from the Real. Infinite mana combo no.2.
4) Dualcaster Mage + Twinflame. Another combo where the individual pieces have some use outside of winning.
5) Deceiver Exarch + Splinter Twin. The classic infinite dudes finisher.
Other win-con cards outside of combos, but I want to use in the current list: Laboratory Maniac, Nexus of Fate, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and Blue Sun's Zenith. What other combos (preferably non combat-damage/creature based ones) have others got in these colors?
Cyclonic Rift - Its not going away, it needs to just eat a reprint or two given how ubiquitous and unique it is.
Toxic Deluge - Another early, non-color intensive sweeper that is just too pricey.
Purphoros, God of the Forge - Be it as a general or in the 99, Purph is an incredibly important card for Red.
Sylvan Library - Even ignoring some combos with cards like Abundance, this still adds so much draw power to green decks that its a crime to see such a lack of availability.
Sensei's Divining Top - Again, this card ranges from staple to absolute powerhouse depending on the deck, but it is never just a straight-up "bad" card to have.
Lasav, the Multifarious - Probably the most enjoyable of the commanders I scrapped, he was just too reliant on a gimmick that was easy to interact with and punish. The usual "infect + pump, infinite power combos" etc just didn't feel good to resolve or win with in the rare occasions that happened. Turned this into a Sidisi list I also recently dismantled, purely due to how often I would lose something I'd rather draw (lands). Never has a non-red deck felt so red to me. I also haven't seen another player pick this up around our LGS either, although there was a little hype on release.
Vaevictus Asmadi, the Dire - Arcades never took off around here ("who wants to play walls?" was the common sentiment) but this guy was heralded as the next big Jund commander besides Prossh. Removal AND a way to abuse the trigger? Sadly, he falls to the same curse a lot of 6 mana commanders who need to swing to do something in 3 colours, coming out too late and relying on high-cmc ratios in his deck. Muldrotha is barely more acceptable for the cmc just because she can recur so much value.
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow - Had a lot of this one from a couple of regular players, felt damn tough to put down too with our meta. Then everyone started picking up things like Estrid stax, and suddenly a commander that has a hard time dealing with enchantments facing down a board of Ghostly Prisons and Stasis effects looked bad. I never built her, but it didn't feel pleasant playing against this deck or if I used a couple of cards to shut it out of the game. Don't really see her at all now.
Pure Hits:
Lord Windgrace - Everyone loves this damn kitty. I've taken my MLD build apart for the misery it induced, but he now sits in my Prossh list as a way to get certain cards into the GY or cycle out dead land draws. I don't have copies of the many $20+ staples LWG requires such as the Oracles and Explorations of the world, so MLD was the only route I was able to go down with any success, but I continue to see plenty of lists about that pack said cards and feel tough to beat.
Estrid - Surprised? So was I. Another one I've taken bits from and that sits half-full in a deck box somewhere for me after a few rounds, but boy does she seem to hit the enchantress spot for others. Stax is the common one with Stasis, Decree of Silence and Authority of the Consuls being regular inclusions in the lists I encounter, but there are a couple of friendlier decks that work off of value at my local.
Muldrotha, the Gravetide - We've already said what needs to be said on her. Graveyard, Stax, Sacrifice, Value combos, she can do a lot in very deep ways for such a simple ability. Thats likely the reason she has stayed on as a staple commander at most EDH tables.
1. Prime Speaker Vannifar - Pod in the CZ will be broken in some capacity. Remains to be seen if the colour restriction hampers cEDH play.
2. Bedevil - The sheer versatility is really going to help out my Grixis and Jund builds.
3. Smothering Tithe - Even ignoring that this is on flavor ramp non-green white decks have been dying for, I'm looking forward to abusing this in artifact sac builds.
4. Lavinia, Azorius Renegade - Another hatebear for W/U decks and will absolutely hamper cEDHs early combos.
5. Rhythm of the Wild - The fact that you can have a nigh-impossible to interact with infinite combo between this, Glen-Elendra Archmage and Blasting Station is something thats got me excited to find some more combos outside of it just being solid anti-blue tech.
(Now I'm stretching a bit, not that much to excite this set)
6. Frilled Mystic - U/G elves just got another stapple.
7. Wilderness Reclamation - Yeah, its a worse Seedborn Muse, but redundant/budget options in that department are always a bonus.
8. Shocklands - Because they'll be cheap as chips to pick up right now.
9. Electrodominance - Conspire this with Wort to burn out 2 players and cast a Brass's Bounty off of it sounds solid to me, and thats not even close to how good this card can be.
10. Teysa Karlov - Deatharmonicon with upside seems solid to me in these colours.
As others have said, the PWs seem weak, with a lot of these looking like standard-only cards. Similar to GRN, I expect I'll try a few of these cards before going back to the cards they replaced or dismantling the deck I built around them (sorry Lasav, Niv and Ioni).
When I run Brass's Bounty etc, yes. Yes it bloody well is!
I'm surprised there's no Elvish Visionary flickering with that infinite mana, especially since its Pod'able into Labman for the win.