You didn't ask but this is my Rat-based discard deck. I have alot of fun with it. It's not budget friendly though.
I used to experiment with Aether vial but I found I had too many non-creature cards that it didn't really work in practice for me. I'm not sure how much you like it but with so many discard cards you may want to consider dropping it just because you aren't getting as much value out of it as all-creature decks.
It'd help if you put the quantity of each card to make it look more like a deck. I love a good rat deck. I'm sure you'll find mutavault and swarmyard are worth their weight in gold.
My only opinion is I think you need to pick a strategy for winning the game. Whether beat down or discard is your main strategy.
If Discard is your main strategy I'd recommend more of an 8-rack take on the deck with the rack and shrieking affliction. Then keep in the rats which support the discard strategy. I've found if there is no penalty for having an empty hand, your opponent will just use all spells and keep an empty hand so you can't force them to discard to liliana's caress.
Or if Beat down is your main strategy you should get creatures which compliment pack rat. Mainly: typhoid rats. The problem with pack rat is, unless you get it going, all your other rats really aren't going to do much. Let's face it pack rat is the only scary creature.
Right now the deck seems kinda on the fence. like your going to do some discarding, and hopefully you can get pack rat going. But in practice if pack rat doesn't get huge, the 1/1 beat down really isn't going to work and most likely your opponents are going to keep empty hands vs your discard since there is no penalty on them from having an empty hand. So discard after turn 5 probably isn't going to do any damage unless your vs a control deck.
stronghold rats is the rat-equivalent to liliana. And it's budget friendly.
Doesn't the final ability on Tezz also do strange things to non-permanent spells?
Yeah that was my concern. It's a painter's servant like affect. I'm sure there are cards which could do nutty things with it. I just can't think of it. I'd assume the thread creator has plans for it because the more logical ult would be just to make all your permanents artifact like. That'd make more sense since Tezzeret's first two abilities only manipulates things on the board anyway.
If your playing a hair pulling deck (like lantern control) I don't blame them. I'd also be running that clock out too. Just so we draw so a deck like that doesn't do well in a tournament because i don't want it to be encouraged to be played more.
If your playing a fair deck, well, sometime people are just holding out for miracle draws.
On the off chance if they know there isn't a card in their deck to turn their fate around then yeah it kinda sucks. But you can't really distinguish when they are wasting time versus hoping to draw for their outs.
When your talking about a virtual atmosphere does it really matter? MTGO measures the time of each person so if they are running out the clock it only works against them doesn't it? It kind of wastes your time but you know you are going to win if they waste their own clock... so does it really matter?
I'm thinking some really broken things can be done with Tezzeret's ult. It basically makes your whole deck artifact tutor-able. I don't know what can be done with that but I'm sure something broken can be done. I'd make the ult cost 5 so that you at least have to work a few turns for it.
I think your mixing too many colour actions into a white card.
Exile is mainly white
Counter is mainly blue
Destroy is mainly black
If anything I'd design this as an artifact , then have the counter be blue phyrexian mana, and destroy be 2 black phyrexian mana.
I think there is too much going on in the card though. I could see redesigning it into something to hose tribal decks, which is kind of does. It just feels clunky.
I think alot of the ideas are far too cheap. Then I read Guild Idol and thought that one was too expensive.
Graveyard Storm reminds me of crypt incursion. But I think it should cost a bit more than 3BB, it does give the UB mill decks another reliable win condition though.
Natasuki1BB
Legendary Creature - Rat Shaman
Deathtouch
Each players maximum hand size is one.
1/1
This is a risky card to play because it'll force you to reduce your hand down to 1 first. Then on your opponents turn if they have an answer to destroy Natasuki then they may not have to reduce their hand to one. Rats are known to manipulate opponents hands so I felt it was a good fit.
As previously stated please describe the deck and your plan for the deck so we can better assist. I love me a good rat deck and would like to hear more.
I recently turned my 8 rack deck to have much rat flavour. It's alot of fun. Funeral charm would be my recommendation for swamp walk but it's targeted.
Against tron we're in trouble and even with side boarding there isn't much we can do.
Basically my strategy is to get lucky the first game. Then games 2 (or 3 if I was lucky game 1) I try to race them with pack rat out of my sideboard.
Too many of their cards just hose us. Because they have so much "exile target permanent" and really the only permanents they can really target is our lands (which they don't target) and our Racks. So needless to say the racks die quick. It's an extremely difficult match up.
If you want some actual strategy: target their big tron cards with thoughtseize so they have to top deck an answer, and early game try to destroy a Urza land with smallpox to slow them down. But it's a hard fight.
Well I never play leagues, but I feel I've got enough experience with enough decks that I can take this deck into ranked play. I was able to take my ranking from exactly 1600 to 1701 in 2 days playing only 8 Rack. So I guess I'll give it a few more days to see if I can climb any higher on the weekend.
Running into too many TRON on MTGO though, they are kind of posing a problem, but I guess that's life and you gotta play what you're dealt.
The only way to answer this question is to guinea pig myself.
How high of a ranking do you think someone can get playing 8 rack exclusively in constructed? Kind of a question of how competitive do you really think the deck is, can someone get an 1800+ rating playing 8 Rack exclusively?
Rakdos Charm doesn't have discard and it turn the deck slightly away from it's core competencies of being a discard deck.
Lavaclaw Reaches just can't do what Mutavault can do. With 8 rack you're at most playing off 3 lands, sometimes you got to 4 lands rarely do you ever go to 5. That leaves very little mana to activate Lavaclaw reachers and to do discard actions on the same turn. Remember with our rack effects we always have to keep them discarding based on what they draw. And very rarely will you ever have surplus mana to pump lavalclaw. If you regularly have 4 or more lands down to do all that pumping, I think your playing 8 rack sub optimally. We just use too many lands running raven's crime and pitching to smallpox
Also most deck's run pack rat in the sideboard and the mutavault synergy is too much to turn down. Too many times have I turned my 3/3 rats into 4/4 to take out blockers or survive bolts. With mutavault you don't need 4 lands (3 to activate plus lavaclaw reachers). You can pump your rats having only 1 mutavault, and you can 2/2 attack with only 2 lands with the mutavault. The resource requirements is just so much lower using mutavault compared to other creature lands. Plus you have increased synergy in the deck.
I've tried BR 8 rack. Personally I don't like it as much as mono black. I find I am increasing my mana curve putting in blightning and kolaghan's command. And I routinely get too many 3 drops in my hand. In my opinion a major reason I would considering going BR is to include rix maadi, dungeon because then at least you get a pseudo discard engine. But even that I've found it's too expensive, you need 4 lands just to activate it (and it costs you a card).
Lightning bolt is a benefit, but it's pretty meh. It's beneficial because it can hit planeswalkers and slightly increase your clock which are the main advantages over fatal push/dismember. But I don't think competitively it's a good enough draw to mix colours. In my opinion mono-black is still the way to go.
Dreadbore was actually my main reason to try to go BR. I just had too much hate for those pesky blue draw-card planeswalkers.
I read somewhere once that BR takes a bit longer to get going but can close out games faster. But I didn't find it as robust as the mono black.
The way I view mindstab is it gives the opponent alot of warning what's coming. Most opponent are generally out of cards by the time mindstab goes off just playing the game normally. While they might typically hold on to more cards knowing they are up against 8 rack the suspend gives them a big warning to dump their hand and unless they are control they can probably very easily dump their hand. So even when mindstab does go off, it's probably highly unlikely your going to get 3 cards.
Waste Not in my opinion doesn't really earn it's keep. If they discard land most of the time our spells are so cheap we can't take advantage of it. When you get 2/2's you typically aren't getting enough to significantly impact a game. The card advantage is all you really want which can't really be controlled. I have a waste not deck specifically abusing waste not, it uses burning inquiry, dark deal, collective defiance to really abuse the discard triggers but I find it doesn't really get going until you have 2 wastes not's on the field working together. I don't think it's a good fit into 8 Rack but to each their own.
I don't run pithing needle or graffdigger's cage in my sideboard but I'd consider it. Control gives me problems which both these SB cards would help against.
epochrasite never tried it, never considered it, I have no opinion. Let us know how it works.
I used to experiment with Aether vial but I found I had too many non-creature cards that it didn't really work in practice for me. I'm not sure how much you like it but with so many discard cards you may want to consider dropping it just because you aren't getting as much value out of it as all-creature decks.
14 swamp
4 swarmyard
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Fatal Push
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Raven's Crime
4 Shrieking Affliction
3 The Rack
4 Nezumi shortfang
4 Pack Rat
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Dismember
4 Liliana of the Veil
My only opinion is I think you need to pick a strategy for winning the game. Whether beat down or discard is your main strategy.
If Discard is your main strategy I'd recommend more of an 8-rack take on the deck with the rack and shrieking affliction. Then keep in the rats which support the discard strategy. I've found if there is no penalty for having an empty hand, your opponent will just use all spells and keep an empty hand so you can't force them to discard to liliana's caress.
Or if Beat down is your main strategy you should get creatures which compliment pack rat. Mainly: typhoid rats. The problem with pack rat is, unless you get it going, all your other rats really aren't going to do much. Let's face it pack rat is the only scary creature.
Right now the deck seems kinda on the fence. like your going to do some discarding, and hopefully you can get pack rat going. But in practice if pack rat doesn't get huge, the 1/1 beat down really isn't going to work and most likely your opponents are going to keep empty hands vs your discard since there is no penalty on them from having an empty hand. So discard after turn 5 probably isn't going to do any damage unless your vs a control deck.
stronghold rats is the rat-equivalent to liliana. And it's budget friendly.
Yeah that was my concern. It's a painter's servant like affect. I'm sure there are cards which could do nutty things with it. I just can't think of it. I'd assume the thread creator has plans for it because the more logical ult would be just to make all your permanents artifact like. That'd make more sense since Tezzeret's first two abilities only manipulates things on the board anyway.
If your playing a fair deck, well, sometime people are just holding out for miracle draws.
On the off chance if they know there isn't a card in their deck to turn their fate around then yeah it kinda sucks. But you can't really distinguish when they are wasting time versus hoping to draw for their outs.
When your talking about a virtual atmosphere does it really matter? MTGO measures the time of each person so if they are running out the clock it only works against them doesn't it? It kind of wastes your time but you know you are going to win if they waste their own clock... so does it really matter?
But the art is awesome!
Exile is mainly white
Counter is mainly blue
Destroy is mainly black
If anything I'd design this as an artifact , then have the counter be blue phyrexian mana, and destroy be 2 black phyrexian mana.
I think there is too much going on in the card though. I could see redesigning it into something to hose tribal decks, which is kind of does. It just feels clunky.
Graveyard Storm reminds me of crypt incursion. But I think it should cost a bit more than 3BB, it does give the UB mill decks another reliable win condition though.
Legendary Creature - Rat Shaman
Deathtouch
Each players maximum hand size is one.
1/1
This is a risky card to play because it'll force you to reduce your hand down to 1 first. Then on your opponents turn if they have an answer to destroy Natasuki then they may not have to reduce their hand to one. Rats are known to manipulate opponents hands so I felt it was a good fit.
I recently turned my 8 rack deck to have much rat flavour. It's alot of fun. Funeral charm would be my recommendation for swamp walk but it's targeted.
Basically my strategy is to get lucky the first game. Then games 2 (or 3 if I was lucky game 1) I try to race them with pack rat out of my sideboard.
Too many of their cards just hose us. Because they have so much "exile target permanent" and really the only permanents they can really target is our lands (which they don't target) and our Racks. So needless to say the racks die quick. It's an extremely difficult match up.
If you want some actual strategy: target their big tron cards with thoughtseize so they have to top deck an answer, and early game try to destroy a Urza land with smallpox to slow them down. But it's a hard fight.
Running into too many TRON on MTGO though, they are kind of posing a problem, but I guess that's life and you gotta play what you're dealt.
The only way to answer this question is to guinea pig myself.
How high of a ranking do you think someone can get playing 8 rack exclusively in constructed? Kind of a question of how competitive do you really think the deck is, can someone get an 1800+ rating playing 8 Rack exclusively?
Lavaclaw Reaches just can't do what Mutavault can do. With 8 rack you're at most playing off 3 lands, sometimes you got to 4 lands rarely do you ever go to 5. That leaves very little mana to activate Lavaclaw reachers and to do discard actions on the same turn. Remember with our rack effects we always have to keep them discarding based on what they draw. And very rarely will you ever have surplus mana to pump lavalclaw. If you regularly have 4 or more lands down to do all that pumping, I think your playing 8 rack sub optimally. We just use too many lands running raven's crime and pitching to smallpox
Also most deck's run pack rat in the sideboard and the mutavault synergy is too much to turn down. Too many times have I turned my 3/3 rats into 4/4 to take out blockers or survive bolts. With mutavault you don't need 4 lands (3 to activate plus lavaclaw reachers). You can pump your rats having only 1 mutavault, and you can 2/2 attack with only 2 lands with the mutavault. The resource requirements is just so much lower using mutavault compared to other creature lands. Plus you have increased synergy in the deck.
I've tried BR 8 rack. Personally I don't like it as much as mono black. I find I am increasing my mana curve putting in blightning and kolaghan's command. And I routinely get too many 3 drops in my hand. In my opinion a major reason I would considering going BR is to include rix maadi, dungeon because then at least you get a pseudo discard engine. But even that I've found it's too expensive, you need 4 lands just to activate it (and it costs you a card).
Lightning bolt is a benefit, but it's pretty meh. It's beneficial because it can hit planeswalkers and slightly increase your clock which are the main advantages over fatal push/dismember. But I don't think competitively it's a good enough draw to mix colours. In my opinion mono-black is still the way to go.
Dreadbore was actually my main reason to try to go BR. I just had too much hate for those pesky blue draw-card planeswalkers.
I read somewhere once that BR takes a bit longer to get going but can close out games faster. But I didn't find it as robust as the mono black.
Waste Not in my opinion doesn't really earn it's keep. If they discard land most of the time our spells are so cheap we can't take advantage of it. When you get 2/2's you typically aren't getting enough to significantly impact a game. The card advantage is all you really want which can't really be controlled. I have a waste not deck specifically abusing waste not, it uses burning inquiry, dark deal, collective defiance to really abuse the discard triggers but I find it doesn't really get going until you have 2 wastes not's on the field working together. I don't think it's a good fit into 8 Rack but to each their own.
I don't run pithing needle or graffdigger's cage in my sideboard but I'd consider it. Control gives me problems which both these SB cards would help against.
epochrasite never tried it, never considered it, I have no opinion. Let us know how it works.