@tau: why did you not just wait for toNight to play that trick on EtR
I figured that the trick would work better the less time EtR had to think about it, and making the private fakeclaim earlier would make it more credible.
Yes Rod I am considering worlds where EtR is Town. I won't be doing by due diligence as a Townie if I wasn't!
Killjoy is right that it's weird how fast the EtR wagon happened. I think the set of people who have posted since the EtR wagon started and NOT posted him is {Killjoy, Tomsloger, Rod}
I'll tell you the pertinent info from that question after EtR answers it.
PS: Pasting my answer to this question since it doesn't matter now:
@tau
Answer my question, why did you discredit all your reads instead of evaluating it more naturally?
I did not discredit all my reads. I think this was important enough to investigate immediately, it could break the game wide open, but if we decide EtR is Town we can right back to lynch the level 1 scummy people.
I considered writing #378 to be much more hedge-y, but if EtR is scum this will make for a much better story, and I find projecting confidence as Town helps create more real reactions.
For the record my role PM matches EtR's claim. I don't have a proper role name, the world "Neighbor" isn't use in my role PM. I do get a new ability if EtR dies.
@EtR Can you go into more detail? What were your plans for this Night phase? What were you going to do this Night phase had we lynched a member of Mafia who wasn't in {Rhand/tomsloger/Lastwhisper}? What would have done had I played along for a couple more days? Or saved one of your "scumbuddies" in a very scummy way? Did you think my claim was a scumtell, nulltell, or towntell?
Not this game of Mafia, although I did just win this game of Mafia, but the entire concept of informed minority games. I didn't even know that was possible.
But first I have to tell you a story:
----
Long ago, in the long forgotten time of 2013, there was a Mafia game called Witchhunt 7 on a now-gone site called Fantasy Strike. Witchhunt 7 had a really really complicated setup, but right now only two facts are important: There were two scumteams in it, and there were some roles which any alignment could have. For example, The Investigator (gimped Role Cop) and The Innkeeper (Is neighbors with the Investigator and the Inquisitor, another gimped Role Cop) could be either Town or Mafia or Other Mafia.
Prime Intellect, gambit-master extraordinaire, rolls Town Investigator, and immediately hashes a plan. In one of his first posts in the Investigator/Innkeeper chat:
"
This is a bit of a gamble but here goes...
Searay I'm an elder witch [Mafia 1] I know you're either a junior [Mafia 2] or a spy. I'm going to bet that you're a junior though.
Let's use this to coordinate.
"
Now, in this case, the Innkeeper was not a member of the Mafia and was not a spy, and the whole thing turned out poorly for town. The Innkeeper ended up telling everything to the Inquisitor, who it turns out actually was a member of Mafia 1. Still, after reading that game I always remembered the shenanigans Townies could do in alignment unconfirmed chats.
----
Then I got my role PM this game: Town Neighbor (hardclaim that by the way). I immediately realize the potential. Of course, there's no indications of there's multiple scum teams in the setup, so I need to lie like a tombstone in order to get this gambit off the ground.
I claim Mafia Traitor aka Lone Wolf aka this role Neighbor. I try to think of a good excuse for knowing that my Neighbor partner is Main Fraction scum, but I can't make it work so I just settle for flatly declaring that my Neighbor is main fraction scum. Then I ask my neighbor who "our" scumbuddies are.
However, my Neighbor, EtR is afk. So afk, that the 24 hour period our chat is open D1 is closing. No worries, I decide to come up with a way EtR can signal me in-thread. This just might work better - after all, if he can't consult his scumbuddies, he's more likely to fall for it!
Thus, my signalling method, with I mention in Neighbor chat: If EtR makes a post which asks at least four players questions, one of which is me, I will assume the rest of the players are "our" scumbuddies.
Question Time (starting page 5)
@TAU - what are your thoughts on Tubba and KA
@Rhand - what are your thoughts on Riku and Vaimes
@Wisp - Top Town Read?
@Tom - Top Town Read?
So:
The scumteam is EtR, Rhand, Lastwhisper, and tomsloger.
Vote: EtR
----
~Boring Other Stuff~
There are a couple other explanations for EtR's behavior, which range from wildly implausible to literal skyscrappers made out of tinfoil. I could enumerate them, but I'd rather let @EtR attempt an explanation.
Sorry Not Sorry to EtR for making him "That guy who Reaverb Tau tricked into outing his entire scumteam."
LnGrrrR ISO with my commentary.
Red Highlighting: LnGrrrR refuses to analyze the situation, sometimes going to absurd lengths to declare something nullish. Also highlighted his habit of adding adverbs which are synonyms of "weakly".
Blue Highlighting: Statements irrelevant to the gamestate. A small number of statements would not be scummy, but LnGrrR uses them excessively
Orange Highlighting: Questions from LnGrrrR to other playerswhich he never brings up or references ever again.
vote Lngr gor moving to a German city I don’t guide in
Ha! You have already used that reason! Scum confirmed!
@Vaimes, you need maybe a day to see Venice. Tops. Unless you are one of those horrible, "You realllllly need to spend at least 3 weeks in nowheresville to truly capture the hearty and spirit of the city!" Look pal, I have a job I have to go to. I know Americans have a bad stereotype of hitting the checklist items, but they are checklist items for a reason, dagnabbit.
@Kami, did you vote LW just because of post #57, or because of more than that?((He did follow up on this question to re-iterate it in #192, after forgetting to re-iterate it at the prefect opportunity in #170))
@KJ, Tubba has been quiet and on the margins, which is slightly worrying. Then again, so have I so... *shrug*. Nullish. ((The "Then again, so have I so" part is clearly a member of Mafia being made he can't scumread a townie without being hypocritical. If a townies notices they are doing a scumtell, they generally FIX THEIR BEHAVIOR, not stop using it. Notice he also implies that the "quiet and on the margins" scumtell is invalidated for THIS GAME ONLY, which is completely gross and indicates LnGrrrR is solely avoiding the scumtell to help keep himself alive.))
I don't get the push on LW, at all. ((LnGrrR makes no attempt to fix the fact he "don't get the push on LW". He does not ask anybody to re-explain why they voted LW or describe specific contradictions.)) Tau votes him for not RVSing, which is... whatever. Riku votes him which I'm guessing is RVS. Rodemy then votes him for not answering a question and continues to go after him aggressively. ((Note LnGrrR has not described if this Rodemy fact is a scumtell or towntell!)) GF jumps in with a naked vote, asking for more people to vote him.((Ditto for this GF fact!)) I read the thread, and I see four votes on him and it makes my head hurt.(("It makes my head hurt" is not a conclusion. It's a reason to ask for help or approach the problem from a different angle))
@Tom, you feel towny enough. I have you in my townbloc along with LW. Not saying you're easy to read, but I think I can read you... decently?
@Rhand, what makes you say that? Also, since you mentioned being drunk, what's a good Dutch drink to try? I ran out of limoncello this weekend and need to get something new.
@all, blah. Fine. But don't expect some long post. I have a freaking Excel course to start working on and I hate Excel.
Not RVSing is not scummy, in my opinion. Tau jumping on him for that is weird, but not enough to force him out of null, just something to keep my eye on. Riku voted him RVS, so no, not scummy. (Also, I think I am bad at reading Riku.) You are... leaning scum. I don't get the aggression. ((The next two sentances are an attempt to launder unrelated Rodemy reads as related to lw wagon, trying to retroactively justify #170 as having meaningful analysis))Also, your "putting words in someone's mouth" comment to Tom felt off, as to me it's pretty clear Tom was jokingly stating that because he hadn't put out an RVS vote, then he isn't part of LW's "I hate these RVS posts" comment, therefore making him town. I don't get why you would jump on that. Grape's jump seems opportunistic as heck and I want to hear Kami's answer to my question.((Notice that LnGrrrR completely forgot about Kami in #170, despite asking him question on Kami's Lastwhisper vote in #127, until re-doing his analysis!))
@LW, you two are injecting a lot into the thread. I tend to townside people talking. If you make some weird pushes then I will worry about it later, but I'm fine right now just looking at the relative output and saying, "Sure, town."
PS: LnGrrrR is still sitting on his Rhand RVS vote.
Like...the grapefruit case is a wording tell which has been disputed by as many people supported it, one awkward emotion transition from #216-#274, and grapefruit writing about mixed feeling on tomsloger without elaborating on his red flags. Those are all weak points.*
Meanwhile LnGrrrR here is borderline openwolfing and I don't know how players are missing it.
Vote LnGrrrR
(again)
---
*Also I think most of the voters on grapefruit have ignored his towntells, such how he almost-singlehandly made the read that marked Killjoy 90% Town. I also like his general pattern of gamestate analysis.
@Lastwhisper Since I saw you use it.
That's correct, my unlockable ability is unknown to me.
I figured that the trick would work better the less time EtR had to think about it, and making the private fakeclaim earlier would make it more credible.
Killjoy is right that it's weird how fast the EtR wagon happened. I think the set of people who have posted since the EtR wagon started and NOT posted him is {Killjoy, Tomsloger, Rod}
I'll tell you the pertinent info from that question after EtR answers it.
PS: Pasting my answer to this question since it doesn't matter now:
I did not discredit all my reads. I think this was important enough to investigate immediately, it could break the game wide open, but if we decide EtR is Town we can right back to lynch the level 1 scummy people.
I considered writing #378 to be much more hedge-y, but if EtR is scum this will make for a much better story, and I find projecting confidence as Town helps create more real reactions.
EtR ( 7 ): Grapefruit21 (382); M1ndreaver (385); KamikazeArchon (426); Vaimes (440); Lastwhisper (442); Rhand (467); Tubba Fett (468);
Killjoy ( 1 ): Rumanshi (73);
M1ndreaver ( 1 ): tomsloger (416);
Reaverb Tau ( 1 ): Rodemy (457);
Rhand ( 1 ): LnGrrrR (8);
tomsloger ( 1 ): zdtsd (133);
Tubba Fett ( 1 ): Killjoy (124);
Don't want EtR hammered yet, I think there's more to get out of this Day phase.
----
@LastWhisper I will answer your question once EtR investigation is over, before the Day phase ends.
LnGrrrR ( 4 ): Lastwhisper (229); Vaimes (362); Tubba Fett (364); tomsloger (366);
EtR ( 3 ): Reaverb Tau (378); Grapefruit21 (382); M1ndreaver (385);
Grapefruit21 ( 2 ): Rhand (117); Rodemy (321);
Killjoy ( 1 ): Rumanshi (73);
Lastwhisper ( 1 ): KamikazeArchon (61);
Rhand ( 1 ): LnGrrrR (8);
tomsloger ( 1 ): zdtsd (133);
Tubba Fett ( 1 ): Killjoy (124);
Because if they include Town!EtR worlds you're basically giving him alibis.
Not this game of Mafia, although I did just win this game of Mafia, but the entire concept of informed minority games. I didn't even know that was possible.
But first I have to tell you a story:
----
Long ago, in the long forgotten time of 2013, there was a Mafia game called Witchhunt 7 on a now-gone site called Fantasy Strike. Witchhunt 7 had a really really complicated setup, but right now only two facts are important: There were two scumteams in it, and there were some roles which any alignment could have. For example, The Investigator (gimped Role Cop) and The Innkeeper (Is neighbors with the Investigator and the Inquisitor, another gimped Role Cop) could be either Town or Mafia or Other Mafia.
Prime Intellect, gambit-master extraordinaire, rolls Town Investigator, and immediately hashes a plan. In one of his first posts in the Investigator/Innkeeper chat:
"
This is a bit of a gamble but here goes...
Searay I'm an elder witch [Mafia 1] I know you're either a junior [Mafia 2] or a spy. I'm going to bet that you're a junior though.
Let's use this to coordinate.
"
Now, in this case, the Innkeeper was not a member of the Mafia and was not a spy, and the whole thing turned out poorly for town. The Innkeeper ended up telling everything to the Inquisitor, who it turns out actually was a member of Mafia 1. Still, after reading that game I always remembered the shenanigans Townies could do in alignment unconfirmed chats.
----
Then I got my role PM this game: Town Neighbor (hardclaim that by the way). I immediately realize the potential. Of course, there's no indications of there's multiple scum teams in the setup, so I need to lie like a tombstone in order to get this gambit off the ground.
I claim Mafia Traitor aka Lone Wolf aka this role Neighbor. I try to think of a good excuse for knowing that my Neighbor partner is Main Fraction scum, but I can't make it work so I just settle for flatly declaring that my Neighbor is main fraction scum. Then I ask my neighbor who "our" scumbuddies are.
However, my Neighbor, EtR is afk. So afk, that the 24 hour period our chat is open D1 is closing. No worries, I decide to come up with a way EtR can signal me in-thread. This just might work better - after all, if he can't consult his scumbuddies, he's more likely to fall for it!
Thus, my signalling method, with I mention in Neighbor chat: If EtR makes a post which asks at least four players questions, one of which is me, I will assume the rest of the players are "our" scumbuddies.
So:
The scumteam is EtR, Rhand, Lastwhisper, and tomsloger.
Vote: EtR
----
~Boring Other Stuff~
There are a couple other explanations for EtR's behavior, which range from wildly implausible to literal skyscrappers made out of tinfoil. I could enumerate them, but I'd rather let @EtR attempt an explanation.
Sorry Not Sorry to EtR for making him "That guy who Reaverb Tau tricked into outing his entire scumteam."
Red Highlighting: LnGrrrR refuses to analyze the situation, sometimes going to absurd lengths to declare something nullish. Also highlighted his habit of adding adverbs which are synonyms of "weakly".
Blue Highlighting: Statements irrelevant to the gamestate. A small number of statements would not be scummy, but LnGrrR uses them excessively
Orange Highlighting: Questions from LnGrrrR to other playerswhich he never brings up or references ever again.
Green Highlighting: My own comments
PS: LnGrrrR is still sitting on his Rhand RVS vote.
Like...the grapefruit case is a wording tell which has been disputed by as many people supported it, one awkward emotion transition from #216-#274, and grapefruit writing about mixed feeling on tomsloger without elaborating on his red flags. Those are all weak points.*
Meanwhile LnGrrrR here is borderline openwolfing and I don't know how players are missing it.
Vote LnGrrrR
(again)
---
*Also I think most of the voters on grapefruit have ignored his towntells, such how he almost-singlehandly made the read that marked Killjoy 90% Town. I also like his general pattern of gamestate analysis.