I was told recently I don't have to remind opponents about the upkeep trigger on their creatures and it feel a bit shady not reminding them of the cost.
I inform them of what it does when it enters the Battlefield, which is to say, "Each of our creatures has an upkeep trigger saying, 'At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy this creature unless you pay {1}.'" If they have any questions about destroy vs. sacrifice, or whether they control the order of the triggers -- they do, along with all their other triggers, such as Delver of Secrets with which they may want to peek before they decide whether or not to pay -- I answer them honestly, whenever they ask. I let them define any shortcuts they want, such as, "I'm going to leave this Island tapped under my True-Name Nemesis, but that's a shortcut for untapping it and then using it to pay his Tabernacle upkeep during each of my turns." Oracle text is always available, and when in doubt, you or they can call a judge. And when I'm sure they understand it, and/or are otherwise operating within tournament boundaries, I will wait for them to draw a card on each of their turns. Either they get it, and we continue playing real Magic, or they don't, and I regrettably inform them of what's happened.
Do note, this typically doesn't apply at local store games, testing, and so forth -- that's where we help each other learn from mistakes. I've conceded games at my local weekly Legacy events that I would've gladly marked 1-1-1 at a larger event, because you should only be a stickler when it matters. But this is Lands. When it matters, be the stickler. It can be a complicated deck for both the pilot and the opponent, but you win through your superior knowledge and constant attention to detail.
Often you'll get people who say things like, "Oh, man. I've never tested against this deck because it's so scarce," or, "I've heard about this deck, but this is the first time I've ever played against it," both of which are things I was told at Grand Prix New Jersey, piloting a Speiss-style R/G combo build. And after both matches, we shook hands; one I'd won, and one I'd lost. But both times we agreed they were great games, and both of them said something to the effect of, "That is a really cool deck."
And it is.
[Edit: Disclaimer -- I've been drinking and was waxing philosophical.]
It's nice to see you guys are starting to play the deck. It's a long road to make the deck, but so worth it.
I couldn't agree more. I frequently liken having Lands built to owning a classic car -- I spend far more time fiddling with and talking about the damned thing than I do "driving" it, but when the opportunity presents itself to take it out for a spin, it's a great way to spend some time. It's not always the best deck for a given event, but it's always got something interesting going on, and each game will be a new challenge which tests my knowledge of my deck, my opponent's deck, and my ability to make correct and precise plays in a reasonable amount of time.
A few questions how does trinisphere work vs dream halls, omniscience and if I play trinisphere off of show and tell it would enter at the same time correct? Because I think I may have not understood how it worked when I cut it.
Trinisphere requires that players have paid a total of at least 3 mana for their spell, if they want to cast it. So, if he casts Show and Tell, putting an Omniscience onto the battlefield, and you put a 3sphere down, then he's going to have to spend to cast Enter the Infinite after that. Dream Halls works the same, except he'd have to discard a blue card and pay to cast Enter the Infinite. Does that make sense?
I am curious about the ruling with Sylvan Library and Life from the Loam, though. Let's say your last two draws off it are dredges. Do you have to put the first card back (or pay 4 to keep it)? What about just one dredge?
If you drew a card (natural draw), then dredged twice (Sylvan Library draws), you'd have 2 Life from the Loam in hand and would have to either put the card you naturally drew back on top, or keep that card and pay 4 life. Sylvan Library looks for cards you drew this turn, and then asks you to put zero, one, or two of them back on top of your library, paying 4 life for each one you didn't put back. This is how it works regardless of the order, too; you could dredge, draw, dredge, and you'd still have to either put that one drawn card back or pay 4 life.
Just one dredge would be the same thing, but with two cards to make a choice about, costing you from zero to 8 life.
However, if you dredged 3 times (once with your natural draw and twice with your Library draws), you could keep all three Loams in your hand and pay no life, as you haven't actually drawn any cards this turn.
I think in an enlightened tutor build, library is superior. Yes, top can save your loam. But sylvan can make you draw 3 cards a turn, really pushing yourself ahead of the game, and it takes no mana to activate. With needing mana to punishing fire, port and possibly more, every mana counts.
I agree with all this; nowadays, Sylvan Library would probably be better than Sensei's Divining Top.
Has anyone tried a single Sensei's Divining Top in the main? I was just sitting and pondering if it could be useful for us. The card selection is always nice and the tap: draw a card can also be useful for saving a Life from the Loam from a Surgical.
I used to run a single Top in my Enlightened Tutor build, a couple years back. It ended up being pretty good, but then Mental Misstep got printed and the whole deck fell apart. I haven't really tried Top since then, though I am back to testing out Enlightened Tutor builds once again. The list that I've been fiddling with is just a little too tight, what with needing room for Punishing Fire, Crop Rotation, and all the other supporting pieces we're cramming in now, to have room for the Top, in my opinion. Which is not to say it isn't good, and I do think it's a better fit than Sylvan Library.
Specifically, we either play True-name Nemesis:
5. Ripault Terrence
GrixisDelver
...
What I don't get is, this list is 64/15. Is that correct, or was that an error introduced by whoever typed up the lists?
That aside, it is interesting. It moves away from the Bob/Delver/Young Pyro traditional cast, but I think the choices are all pretty solid. Tombstalker feels like it would be good, and without Bob in the deck there's little to fear for your own life from it.
Or you don't:
6. Van den Bulk Steve
Grixis Delver
...
Ah, now this is podracing. The whole gang is here! Bob, Delver, Young Pyro, Deathrite... wait. Does this deck want something like Deathrite? I honestly don't know, as I don't have that much experience with it just yet, and it apparently worked well enough for Steve to do some kinda good for himself. Some further opinions on this would be welcome.
Having played both Bant and Maverick for at least two months each, I'd not recommend it at a GP with limited (or no) Legacy experience. Both decks require quite a bit of high-level play to win. Reid Duke won (and I believe he even said) because he was familiar with the deck. He didn't choose it to metagame because frankly I am surprised he got through 9 rounds with such a bad Game 1 against combo, but again, I believe this is because of the pilot, not the deck itself.
This is precisely the sort of information I was after. I do have Legacy experience -- been playing the format off and on since 2009, including a brief stint with Maverick in late 2011 -- but am getting back into it after a yearlong hiatus due to Real Life™, so it sounds like this wouldn't be the best thing for me to pick up right now.
I'll go poke around for other well-positioned archetypes with which I have more experience, but I think I'll keep my eye on Bant and start practicing with and reading about it more. Thanks again!
I'd never really looked into Bant, but I'm trying to find something competitive to run at Grand Prix DC that wouldn't require me to spend too terribly much, and all I'm missing from his list is the one Tundra and the 3 Jace, both of which could easily find later homes in a different deck. Do people think his is a good list to start from? I'd tried Maverick a couple weeks ago, and Knight of the Reliquary didn't really seem to be the MVP that it once was, but that could be more a symptom of Maverick (or of me, or of my matchups) than of Knight.
This looks like a cool deck that I'd enjoy learning to pilot, with a list I can reasonably acquire, but I want to make sure it wouldn't be a foolish choice for me to do so. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Library is quite good with E-Tutor and yeah usually it will win the control locks by the card advantage, as for what to cut your call, I don't run library as I like running 2 factories main, but still pondering whether or not to try Staff Of Nin
For a while I was running an Obelisk of Alara as my "big artifact" win con, back when other lists were running Mindslaver. I was quite fond of it, especially since I could activate any of its abilities with a Mox Diamond. If you test Staff of Nin, though, I'd love to hear how it goes.
Anyone see Milton Figueroa's Decklist at the invitational? It was quite the bizarre version of Reanimator.
I'd noticed that as well, and while poking about on TC Decks, I found what appears to be a nearly identical list that finished 32nd at the Legacy 2012 Magic Online Championship Series.
Perhaps WWEHBK is Figueroa's MODO username? Regardless, it's not like this gives us any actual answers about WTF was actually going on with that deck list, I just found it interesting.
Right now, I'm running 2 Revoker and 2 Thalia in my main, with 3 slots in the board dedicated to remainders. At the moment that means 2 Revoker and 1 Thalia in my sideboard, but I may end up flipping those numbers around. I've been pretty happy with that balance, overall.
In the interest of getting things back on track I'm going to post the list I've been working with. My experience with the deck is real, having been playing it seriously and nearly exclusively for about a year -- except during the dark Mental Misstep times when I was running Maverick -- with a third-place finish at an SCG Invitational Qualifier a couple months back. Please note the Mindslaver.
Before I get to the list, some discourse. Note that this is all my opinion, and should be taken as such. I do invite constructive discussion, as always. WALL OF TEXT, GO!
I had been flirting with Obelisk of Alara as the primary non-land win condition a while back, and I've since picked it back up as being interesting enough to be worth a shot. In my testing so far it has bailed me out of some situations that otherwise would've been somewhat grim, and I'm going to keep working with it. Each of the abilities has some value: life gain is usually pretty handy, a great many really pesky creatures die when they lose 2 toughness (including that Magus of the Moon jerk), the red ability can seal up a game faster than Mindslaver if your opponent won't simply scoop, the green ability is occasionally useful with the manlands I run, and the blue one... well, it draws a card and discards a card. It's not the best of the five, but I've used it once to save my Loams from a Surgical Extraction.
I've been giving the Inkmoth Nexus + Kessig Wolf Run combo a try, which was mentioned by antipode3141592 in the Lands thread on The Source a couple days ago. I've been impressed by the speed and with which the Inkmoth Nexus can end games, especially alongside the +4/+4 ability from the Obelisk. Wolf Run has also worked pretty well for me in finishing games with Creeping Tar Pit, that old standby.
For a tutor package, I've gone old school: back to Gamble. I've been fiddling with Enlightened Tutor, Intuition, Entomb, and even Wargate in various tests, and when I added red back to the deck to support Wolf Run (and give myself an additional win condition in the form of Barbarian Ring) I thought I might give Gamble another go. Its drawbacks are obvious, of course, but early in the game -- when you generally want to find something specific before you get your dredge engine online -- it's done its job admirably. Sometimes I'm disappointed by it, but that's the nature of the beast.
I've had for some time an on-again-off-again torrid love affair with Crop Rotation and some of the surprises you can execute with it can blow people out of the water. "He's got 4 nobasics with no Zuran Orb or Wasteland to save himself at 8 life. Price of Progress!" "Bam! Crop Rotation! Now my Trop is a Glacial Chasm! I'm safe in my hidey hole! Also, you take 4 from your two Volcs." Or something along those lines.
Let's see... what else is interesting in the list I'm about to share. Petrified Field is handy with Crop Rotation if you can't find a Loam to save your life (don't worry, it happens to lots of guys) and you need to get something specific back. Can also save your Loams from not-Extirpate with Crop Rotation and a binned Tranquil Thicket -- Rotate one of your lands into Petrified Field, sac it to bring your Thicket back to your hand, and then cycle your Thicket to dredge back your Loam. Next-Level Loam-Protecting Apparatus! Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is better than Riftstone Portal, especially in a deck with Crop Rotation. I think the rest of the deck looks pretty normal and won't get made fun of by the other kids at school very much.
FWIW I've followed the pack and switched to Dispense Justice in the board as answer to Thrun/Geist/Inkmoth/Dungrove/whatever hard to kill threat opponents think they're safe attacking with
Another idea I'd had is Choking Fumes. Amazing against Inkmoth swarms, and can be pretty good against Tempered Steel decks if you find it before he finds a Steel, but maybe Dispense Justice is more worthwhile overall. I'm still on the fence, though I think one or the other is necessary.
I... uh... this is a really good question, and I'm glad you brought it up and proposed a deck list. For the past week I've been going over in my mind how to re-engineer Lands from the ground up, and this gives me another angle to consider. I hope to have more to say about it in a few days, but thank you for putting forth a possible new way of looking at things.
Last Saturday at my local shop, we had a small Legacy-format SCG Invitational Qualifier. Only 17 people showed up, but I managed to take 3rd place with Lands, losing matches only to Team America (who ended up being the eventual winner) in the first round of Swiss, and ANT in the semifinals. Was super excited to be running the deck I love again! Here's the list I ran:
I don't really have much of a report -- I'm really bad at those -- but I did want to share my list and make some comments. I was really pleased with the main, and am only going to be making one change to it: -1 Verdant Catacombs, +1 Horizon Canopy; I could be convinced that moving the Karakas to the main in place of the fifth fetch would be the right idea, too. Cabal Pit wasn't great, but it also wasn't disappointing, and it did do a couple useful things over the course of the day.
The board, on the other hand, I'd like to change up a bit. I want to fit at least 2 more Chalice of the Void in, along with finding a place for Riftstone Portal, which I left out only because I knew there were no Dragon Stompy or other major moon effect decks at that particular event. Maybe -2 Krosan Grip for the Chalices? I've never really wanted my Grips brought in, but that could just be the matches I've played haven't really called for `em. And if I do move the Karakas to the main that would make the spot for the Riftstone Portal, no problem.
I inform them of what it does when it enters the Battlefield, which is to say, "Each of our creatures has an upkeep trigger saying, 'At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy this creature unless you pay {1}.'" If they have any questions about destroy vs. sacrifice, or whether they control the order of the triggers -- they do, along with all their other triggers, such as Delver of Secrets with which they may want to peek before they decide whether or not to pay -- I answer them honestly, whenever they ask. I let them define any shortcuts they want, such as, "I'm going to leave this Island tapped under my True-Name Nemesis, but that's a shortcut for untapping it and then using it to pay his Tabernacle upkeep during each of my turns." Oracle text is always available, and when in doubt, you or they can call a judge. And when I'm sure they understand it, and/or are otherwise operating within tournament boundaries, I will wait for them to draw a card on each of their turns. Either they get it, and we continue playing real Magic, or they don't, and I regrettably inform them of what's happened.
Do note, this typically doesn't apply at local store games, testing, and so forth -- that's where we help each other learn from mistakes. I've conceded games at my local weekly Legacy events that I would've gladly marked 1-1-1 at a larger event, because you should only be a stickler when it matters. But this is Lands. When it matters, be the stickler. It can be a complicated deck for both the pilot and the opponent, but you win through your superior knowledge and constant attention to detail.
Often you'll get people who say things like, "Oh, man. I've never tested against this deck because it's so scarce," or, "I've heard about this deck, but this is the first time I've ever played against it," both of which are things I was told at Grand Prix New Jersey, piloting a Speiss-style R/G combo build. And after both matches, we shook hands; one I'd won, and one I'd lost. But both times we agreed they were great games, and both of them said something to the effect of, "That is a really cool deck."
And it is.
[Edit: Disclaimer -- I've been drinking and was waxing philosophical.]
I couldn't agree more. I frequently liken having Lands built to owning a classic car -- I spend far more time fiddling with and talking about the damned thing than I do "driving" it, but when the opportunity presents itself to take it out for a spin, it's a great way to spend some time. It's not always the best deck for a given event, but it's always got something interesting going on, and each game will be a new challenge which tests my knowledge of my deck, my opponent's deck, and my ability to make correct and precise plays in a reasonable amount of time.
Trinisphere requires that players have paid a total of at least 3 mana for their spell, if they want to cast it. So, if he casts Show and Tell, putting an Omniscience onto the battlefield, and you put a 3sphere down, then he's going to have to spend
If you drew a card (natural draw), then dredged twice (Sylvan Library draws), you'd have 2 Life from the Loam in hand and would have to either put the card you naturally drew back on top, or keep that card and pay 4 life. Sylvan Library looks for cards you drew this turn, and then asks you to put zero, one, or two of them back on top of your library, paying 4 life for each one you didn't put back. This is how it works regardless of the order, too; you could dredge, draw, dredge, and you'd still have to either put that one drawn card back or pay 4 life.
Just one dredge would be the same thing, but with two cards to make a choice about, costing you from zero to 8 life.
However, if you dredged 3 times (once with your natural draw and twice with your Library draws), you could keep all three Loams in your hand and pay no life, as you haven't actually drawn any cards this turn.
Hope that helps!
I agree with all this; nowadays, Sylvan Library would probably be better than Sensei's Divining Top.
I used to run a single Top in my Enlightened Tutor build, a couple years back. It ended up being pretty good, but then Mental Misstep got printed and the whole deck fell apart. I haven't really tried Top since then, though I am back to testing out Enlightened Tutor builds once again. The list that I've been fiddling with is just a little too tight, what with needing room for Punishing Fire, Crop Rotation, and all the other supporting pieces we're cramming in now, to have room for the Top, in my opinion. Which is not to say it isn't good, and I do think it's a better fit than Sylvan Library.
What I don't get is, this list is 64/15. Is that correct, or was that an error introduced by whoever typed up the lists?
That aside, it is interesting. It moves away from the Bob/Delver/Young Pyro traditional cast, but I think the choices are all pretty solid. Tombstalker feels like it would be good, and without Bob in the deck there's little to fear for your own life from it.
Ah, now this is podracing. The whole gang is here! Bob, Delver, Young Pyro, Deathrite... wait. Does this deck want something like Deathrite? I honestly don't know, as I don't have that much experience with it just yet, and it apparently worked well enough for Steve to do some kinda good for himself. Some further opinions on this would be welcome.
This is precisely the sort of information I was after. I do have Legacy experience -- been playing the format off and on since 2009, including a brief stint with Maverick in late 2011 -- but am getting back into it after a yearlong hiatus due to Real Life™, so it sounds like this wouldn't be the best thing for me to pick up right now.
I'll go poke around for other well-positioned archetypes with which I have more experience, but I think I'll keep my eye on Bant and start practicing with and reading about it more. Thanks again!
I'd never really looked into Bant, but I'm trying to find something competitive to run at Grand Prix DC that wouldn't require me to spend too terribly much, and all I'm missing from his list is the one Tundra and the 3 Jace, both of which could easily find later homes in a different deck. Do people think his is a good list to start from? I'd tried Maverick a couple weeks ago, and Knight of the Reliquary didn't really seem to be the MVP that it once was, but that could be more a symptom of Maverick (or of me, or of my matchups) than of Knight.
This looks like a cool deck that I'd enjoy learning to pilot, with a list I can reasonably acquire, but I want to make sure it wouldn't be a foolish choice for me to do so. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
For a while I was running an Obelisk of Alara as my "big artifact" win con, back when other lists were running Mindslaver. I was quite fond of it, especially since I could activate any of its abilities with a Mox Diamond. If you test Staff of Nin, though, I'd love to hear how it goes.
I'd noticed that as well, and while poking about on TC Decks, I found what appears to be a nearly identical list that finished 32nd at the Legacy 2012 Magic Online Championship Series.
Perhaps WWEHBK is Figueroa's MODO username? Regardless, it's not like this gives us any actual answers about WTF was actually going on with that deck list, I just found it interesting.
Before I get to the list, some discourse. Note that this is all my opinion, and should be taken as such. I do invite constructive discussion, as always. WALL OF TEXT, GO!
I had been flirting with Obelisk of Alara as the primary non-land win condition a while back, and I've since picked it back up as being interesting enough to be worth a shot. In my testing so far it has bailed me out of some situations that otherwise would've been somewhat grim, and I'm going to keep working with it. Each of the abilities has some value: life gain is usually pretty handy, a great many really pesky creatures die when they lose 2 toughness (including that Magus of the Moon jerk), the red ability can seal up a game faster than Mindslaver if your opponent won't simply scoop, the green ability is occasionally useful with the manlands I run, and the blue one... well, it draws a card and discards a card. It's not the best of the five, but I've used it once to save my Loams from a Surgical Extraction.
I've been giving the Inkmoth Nexus + Kessig Wolf Run combo a try, which was mentioned by antipode3141592 in the Lands thread on The Source a couple days ago. I've been impressed by the speed and with which the Inkmoth Nexus can end games, especially alongside the +4/+4 ability from the Obelisk. Wolf Run has also worked pretty well for me in finishing games with Creeping Tar Pit, that old standby.
For a tutor package, I've gone old school: back to Gamble. I've been fiddling with Enlightened Tutor, Intuition, Entomb, and even Wargate in various tests, and when I added red back to the deck to support Wolf Run (and give myself an additional win condition in the form of Barbarian Ring) I thought I might give Gamble another go. Its drawbacks are obvious, of course, but early in the game -- when you generally want to find something specific before you get your dredge engine online -- it's done its job admirably. Sometimes I'm disappointed by it, but that's the nature of the beast.
I've had for some time an on-again-off-again torrid love affair with Crop Rotation and some of the surprises you can execute with it can blow people out of the water. "He's got 4 nobasics with no Zuran Orb or Wasteland to save himself at 8 life. Price of Progress!" "Bam! Crop Rotation! Now my Trop is a Glacial Chasm! I'm safe in my hidey hole! Also, you take 4 from your two Volcs." Or something along those lines.
Let's see... what else is interesting in the list I'm about to share. Petrified Field is handy with Crop Rotation if you can't find a Loam to save your life (don't worry, it happens to lots of guys) and you need to get something specific back. Can also save your Loams from not-Extirpate with Crop Rotation and a binned Tranquil Thicket -- Rotate one of your lands into Petrified Field, sac it to bring your Thicket back to your hand, and then cycle your Thicket to dredge back your Loam. Next-Level Loam-Protecting Apparatus! Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is better than Riftstone Portal, especially in a deck with Crop Rotation. I think the rest of the deck looks pretty normal and won't get made fun of by the other kids at school very much.
So, finally, on to the list!
1 Forest
3 Tolaria West
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Taiga
1 Petrified Field
1 Bayou
3 Maze of Ith
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Obelisk of Alara
3 Manabond
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
2 Crop Rotation
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
3 Gamble
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Krosan Grip
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Oblivion Stone
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
The sideboard is largely a placeholder at this point, but I wanted to post something to foster discussion, so... discuss!
Another idea I'd had is Choking Fumes. Amazing against Inkmoth swarms, and can be pretty good against Tempered Steel decks if you find it before he finds a Steel, but maybe Dispense Justice is more worthwhile overall. I'm still on the fence, though I think one or the other is necessary.
I... uh... this is a really good question, and I'm glad you brought it up and proposed a deck list. For the past week I've been going over in my mind how to re-engineer Lands from the ground up, and this gives me another angle to consider. I hope to have more to say about it in a few days, but thank you for putting forth a possible new way of looking at things.
4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Manabond
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mindslaver
2 Intuition
1 Crucible of Worlds
// Land (35)
3 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
3 Tolaria West
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bayou
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Cabal Pit
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Confidant
2 Krosan Grip
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Cursed Totem
1 Karakas
1 Tormod's Crypt
I don't really have much of a report -- I'm really bad at those -- but I did want to share my list and make some comments. I was really pleased with the main, and am only going to be making one change to it: -1 Verdant Catacombs, +1 Horizon Canopy; I could be convinced that moving the Karakas to the main in place of the fifth fetch would be the right idea, too. Cabal Pit wasn't great, but it also wasn't disappointing, and it did do a couple useful things over the course of the day.
The board, on the other hand, I'd like to change up a bit. I want to fit at least 2 more Chalice of the Void in, along with finding a place for Riftstone Portal, which I left out only because I knew there were no Dragon Stompy or other major moon effect decks at that particular event. Maybe -2 Krosan Grip for the Chalices? I've never really wanted my Grips brought in, but that could just be the matches I've played haven't really called for `em. And if I do move the Karakas to the main that would make the spot for the Riftstone Portal, no problem.