+1: Put a 1/1 white and green creature token named *XYZ* onto the battlefield. It has "G , T: Fight target creature if you control a planeswalker.”
0: Either put three +1/+1 counters on target creature with toughness 1 or untap target creature with mana value 3 or less.
-4: You get an emblem with “ W , tap an untapped creature you control with mana value 3 or less: Exert and regenerate that creature. Until end of turn it gets +0/+3.”
Starting Loyalty: 2
...This way it quickly puts something like Elspeth, Knight-Errant to shame though, doesn't it? (Despite lacking her evasion(flying)).
Maybe I could 'nerf' the tokens to be 0/1s and let them deal an extra point of damage when fighting [and thereby expand on the flavor of the tokens being kind of useless on their own]. Maybe counterbalance that nerf by letting the counters of the second ability be distributed among creatures with toughness 1.
Something like this:
*NAME+ 1WG
+1: Put a 0/1 white and green creature token named *XYZ* onto the battlefield. It has “GT: Fight target creature and deal 1 additional damage to it. Activate only if you control a planeswalker.”
0: Distribute 3 +1/+1 counters on any number of creatures with toughness 1 or untap target creature with mana value 3 or less.
-4: You get an emblem with “W, tap an untapped creature you control with mana value 3 or less: Exert and regenerate that creature. Until end of turn it gets +0/+3.”
Created one I think I'd give a go in my own cube. Renown came around before PW's started having static abilities. I think this is a really fun static for a Selesnya walker - makes letting any small attacker get by into a big problem.
Name 1WG
Planeswalker (M)
Creatures you control have Renown 1.
+1: Put a +1/+1 counter on up to one target creature with a +1/+1 counter on it. Gain life equal to the number of +1/+1 counters on that creature.
-2: Create a 2/2 White and Green knight token with first strike and lifelink
-5: Draw cards equal to the power of target renowned creature you control.
(3)
Great design! - renown seems like a cool ability for a PW static. I'm not a huge fan of more lifelink in my cube, but that is personal preference, I guess.
I am still interested in how to balance my card adequately though. Flavorwise the tokens that it makes are feeble, sleepy guys who need a kick in the ass to fight [which is why they only fight if a PW is present]. The emblem is meant to represent them going back to sleep and regenerating after getting punched, making them drowsy in the aftermath - which fits the exert.
How about:
*NAME* 1WG
+1: Put a 1/1 white and green creature token named *XYZ* onto the battlefield. It has "G , T: Fight target creature if you control a planeswalker.”
0: Either put three +1/+1 counters on target creature with toughness 1 or untap target creature with mana value 3 or less.
-4: You get an emblem with “ W , tap an untapped creature you control with mana value 3 or less: Exert and regenerate that creature. Until end of turn it gets +0/+3.”
Starting Loyalty: 2
I threw in the untap ability [another way to 'wake up' the tokens] to - besides obvious uses - allow for making use of the tokens (fighting, attacking) and still getting the protection of the emblem.
The new wording of <-4> should get around summoning sickness and still prevent the ability from being used on attacks. (Although I don't really think it would break the card if it could be used offensively.)
How powerful do you think the third ability is? How often will it be used/relevant in games. Is <-4> sensibly costed?
Regardless of the quality of the overall design (or lack thereof), I am interested in getting a feeling on how to balance this well. BlackWaltz's design is obviously much clearer/cleaner - and immediately gave me a reasonably good idea of how it would play in my Cube. I'm still unsure about mine without loads of playtesting..
There are some templating things that need tweaked, but we should figure out exactly what you want first.
I agree with blackwaltz that I don't see this being a more powerful option than Ajani, Sleeper Agent or Calix, Destiny's Hand as a 4 drop selesneya walker. It doesn't look like a p1p1 comparable to Oko or Minsc as written because it is neither an efficient control nor offering card advantage, and Ajani offers extra flexibility in being castable at 3 or 4.
The relevant question is: What does white green (or WGx) do in your cube? What archetype or combo in those colors needs a boost for people to be pushed down that route? A 3-4 mana walker that encourages a token build looks different than the one for the lifegain build and the one for the +1/+1 counter deck.
Yeah, I also had the feeling that this version was lacking a bit in the power department. It just seemed like I overdid it with all my ideas to push the power; I'm just too careful, I guess. Taking Rakdos-Daretti and Grist as the yardstick/upper boundary in power level, how would you tweak the card to balance it for 3cmc (1GW)?
Midrangey creature token strategies are what the card is meant to support primarily. Like I wrote above, I'd like it to be versatile and utilize the tokens for offensive and defensive purposes. (I'm ok with a slightly lower power level in favor of versatility here.)
I think a lot of this design is borrowing too heavily from Minsc and Boo and not establishing its own unique identity that falls inline with Selesnya decks. I see some Selesnya ideas here, tokens, buffing small creatures, toughness matters, but right now the first two abilities feel like Selesnya Minsc and Boo and the final ability feels very disjointed with the rest of the card.
Also, I know a lot of Selesnya PW wishlists would favor a 3CC walker so they can play it turn 2 off of an elf. If this is to be cube focused, I think that is the cost sweet spot.
Thanks for your input!
Believe it or not, but the card actually predates Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes - although it used to be cmc5 and make two tokens, so I was certainly subconsciously influenced in my adjustments
Not quite sure if I mind the similarity, and I am sure that they would serve different enough roles in my Cube; but it's certainly something to think about.
(it's also less of an issue since Hamster-Man - alongside similar offenders/overachievers - will be taking the occasional time-out from my Cube )
The third ability was meant to add a defensive side, to make the card more versatile and less one-dimensional. More for an adjustable midrangey tokens gameplan, and not a streamlined aggro curve-topper. Maybe I'll think of something to 'tie' the abilities together even better...
I definitely want it to have offensive AND defensive capabilities.
I'll definitely consider a 3cmc version. Looking over at Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast and Grist, The Hunger Tide, I don't think I need to be aaaall that cautious with token-producing Planeswalkers, even at 3cmc. (I'd ideally like the card to be just a little(!) below those in power level)
I am having trouble gauging the power level of this PW. It's supposed to be a balanced card in my unpowered yet high-power vintage cube environment. I want it to be defensible as a reasonably early pick without it ever being another p1/p1-able gold card in the vein of Oko, Thief of Crowns/Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes/Fractured Identity.
*NAME* 2GW
+1: Put a 1/1 white and green creature token named *XYZ* onto the battlefield. It gains “G, T: Fight target creature if you control a planeswalker.”
-5: You get an emblem with “Creatures you control with mana value two or less have ‘W, t: Exert and regenerate this creature. Until end of turn it gets +0/+3.’” [a bit of 'trample protection']
...also, I'm not confident that I want it to be able to untap something like Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
*NAME* 1WG
+1: Put a 1/1 white and green creature token named *XYZ* onto the battlefield. It has "G , T: Fight target creature if you control a planeswalker.”
0: Either put three +1/+1 counters on target creature with toughness 1 or untap target creature with mana value 3 or less.
-4: You get an emblem with “ W , tap an untapped creature you control with mana value 3 or less: Exert and regenerate that creature. Until end of turn it gets +0/+3.”
Starting Loyalty: 2
...This way it quickly puts something like Elspeth, Knight-Errant to shame though, doesn't it? (Despite lacking her evasion(flying)).
Maybe I could 'nerf' the tokens to be 0/1s and let them deal an extra point of damage when fighting [and thereby expand on the flavor of the tokens being kind of useless on their own]. Maybe counterbalance that nerf by letting the counters of the second ability be distributed among creatures with toughness 1.
Something like this:
*NAME+ 1WG
+1: Put a 0/1 white and green creature token named *XYZ* onto the battlefield. It has “GT: Fight target creature and deal 1 additional damage to it. Activate only if you control a planeswalker.”
0: Distribute 3 +1/+1 counters on any number of creatures with toughness 1 or untap target creature with mana value 3 or less.
-4: You get an emblem with “W, tap an untapped creature you control with mana value 3 or less: Exert and regenerate that creature. Until end of turn it gets +0/+3.”
Starting Loyalty: 2
Great design! - renown seems like a cool ability for a PW static. I'm not a huge fan of more lifelink in my cube, but that is personal preference, I guess.
I am still interested in how to balance my card adequately though. Flavorwise the tokens that it makes are feeble, sleepy guys who need a kick in the ass to fight [which is why they only fight if a PW is present]. The emblem is meant to represent them going back to sleep and regenerating after getting punched, making them drowsy in the aftermath - which fits the exert.
How about:
*NAME* 1WG
+1: Put a 1/1 white and green creature token named *XYZ* onto the battlefield. It has "G , T: Fight target creature if you control a planeswalker.”
0: Either put three +1/+1 counters on target creature with toughness 1 or untap target creature with mana value 3 or less.
-4: You get an emblem with “ W , tap an untapped creature you control with mana value 3 or less: Exert and regenerate that creature. Until end of turn it gets +0/+3.”
Starting Loyalty: 2
I threw in the untap ability [another way to 'wake up' the tokens] to - besides obvious uses - allow for making use of the tokens (fighting, attacking) and still getting the protection of the emblem.
The new wording of <-4> should get around summoning sickness and still prevent the ability from being used on attacks. (Although I don't really think it would break the card if it could be used offensively.)
How powerful do you think the third ability is? How often will it be used/relevant in games. Is <-4> sensibly costed?
Regardless of the quality of the overall design (or lack thereof), I am interested in getting a feeling on how to balance this well. BlackWaltz's design is obviously much clearer/cleaner - and immediately gave me a reasonably good idea of how it would play in my Cube. I'm still unsure about mine without loads of playtesting..
Yeah, I also had the feeling that this version was lacking a bit in the power department. It just seemed like I overdid it with all my ideas to push the power; I'm just too careful, I guess. Taking Rakdos-Daretti and Grist as the yardstick/upper boundary in power level, how would you tweak the card to balance it for 3cmc (1GW)?
Midrangey creature token strategies are what the card is meant to support primarily. Like I wrote above, I'd like it to be versatile and utilize the tokens for offensive and defensive purposes. (I'm ok with a slightly lower power level in favor of versatility here.)
Thanks for your input!
Believe it or not, but the card actually predates Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes - although it used to be cmc5 and make two tokens, so I was certainly subconsciously influenced in my adjustments
Not quite sure if I mind the similarity, and I am sure that they would serve different enough roles in my Cube; but it's certainly something to think about.
(it's also less of an issue since Hamster-Man - alongside similar offenders/overachievers - will be taking the occasional time-out from my Cube
The third ability was meant to add a defensive side, to make the card more versatile and less one-dimensional. More for an adjustable midrangey tokens gameplan, and not a streamlined aggro curve-topper. Maybe I'll think of something to 'tie' the abilities together even better...
I definitely want it to have offensive AND defensive capabilities.
I'll definitely consider a 3cmc version. Looking over at Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast and Grist, The Hunger Tide, I don't think I need to be aaaall that cautious with token-producing Planeswalkers, even at 3cmc. (I'd ideally like the card to be just a little(!) below those in power level)
I am having trouble gauging the power level of this PW. It's supposed to be a balanced card in my unpowered yet high-power vintage cube environment. I want it to be defensible as a reasonably early pick without it ever being another p1/p1-able gold card in the vein of Oko, Thief of Crowns/Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes/Fractured Identity.
*NAME* 2GW
+1: Put a 1/1 white and green creature token named *XYZ* onto the battlefield. It gains “G, T: Fight target creature if you control a planeswalker.”
0: Put three +1/+1 counters on target creature with toughness 1.
[maybe throw in trample?! Might be too much though..(?)]
[maybe "odd toughness" instead? -- which currently adds: Reveillark, Sylvan Caryatid, Ramunap Excavator, Magus of the Order, Thragtusk, Smuggler's Copter, Wall of Roots, Craterhoof Behemoth, Elesh Norn, Myr Battlesphere] within the colors. (technically also the two Emrakuls
-5: You get an emblem with “Creatures you control with mana value two or less have ‘W, t: Exert and regenerate this creature. Until end of turn it gets +0/+3.’” [a bit of 'trample protection']
Starting Loyalty: 4
I'm grateful for all input and evaluation