This is my first try on a mardu pyromancer list for a while. Feedback is very welcome.
I like it because it's similar to what I'm gonna test when MH will come out, but personally I'll replace the Angrath's Rampage with the old 1/1 split of Dreadbore and Terminate because most of the time I prefer targeting rather than playing around a hexproof creature, especially when you already have the "edict" effect in form of 2 LotV.
I have mixed feelings about Smithing Helix, in theory it seems a good card but when I think about the best case scenario is mediocre: the normal cost is way too high for our deck so we have to pitch the card to Looting in order to play it at a cheap cost, but at that time isn't just better playing Lightning Helix? Don't know, maybe I just cannot see the reason to play it instead of the old Helix.
I know this might sound dumb but what about a 1 of Vicious Rumors as a spicy tech? Obviously it's bad against Phoenix and Dredge but paired with Pyro it's a nice 5 for 1 (discard, gain life, oppo loses life, puts top card of their library in graveyard and make a token) against all other decks, and if not needed it can be always discarded thanks to Looting.
Hi isaacblue! I'm on a budget as you and I like the replacement of Paths instead of BM (which I did too) and my manabase is similar to yours. What I would change in mainboard is another Sacred Foundry for the Godless Shrine because I felt that always having R is very important. Talking about the side I don't think Grafdigger's Cage is good because it shuts down our Lingering and Looting recursion, in that place I'd rather have another Nihil or a Shattering Spree since there's Whir in your meta or an Extirpate (budget version of Surgical) for Phoenix, I also don't like Crackling Doom and I'd rather play Blessed Alliance since it can be good either against Burn or Bogles and I love its flexibility.
Regarding Ashiok I like it too and I will probably test it soon.
I'm Italian so my English may be not good neither, I hope you understand what I was meaning Keep grinding the opponent!
Dreadhorde is bad imho, it's only a 1/3 creature without haste that's not going to attack since Modern is the format with the most removal and it has also a clearly nonbo with Bedlam Revelers. We need cards that repay the mana investment on the same turn we played them.
Saheeli is also not quite good, sure thing she can make a few tokens but the -2 ability gets online only by turn 4 and only after we played a spell. As the Professor teach you need to think about "the ceiling and the floor" of a card: the ceiling is the best scenario, which in this case is Saheeli copy a Pyro or a Bedlam Reveler (this abilty is not good alone, think always that you need to cast a non-creature spell the turn after you played Saheeli), the floor is the worst scenario, which are many in this case for example you draw Saheeli after a boardwipe or you have only a bunch of Souls tokens on play. All in all I just think that Saheeli is not good enough, but these are my consideration and I would glad if someone will prove me wrong.
Not that much, sometimes happens but I think it's normal. The problem is not Helix being clunky IMO because with those lands and young peezy in hand also brutalities, K command and souls would feel clunky, you just have to think what's the best decision for your particular scenario.
Do anyone here have any experience against Grishoalbrand/Instant Reanimator decks?
A player at my local place just built his and we tried a game, i got smashed. It felt like i couldnt discard him enough to make any difference.
Its alot like UR through the breach but with more options to combo.
Do you know any specific card i could use in my SB to counter the deck?
I think Leylines and Surgicals are your best friends against this deck, G1 I think it's probably always unwinnable if they have the combo. G2 and G3 the best way is put leyline on board and make them discard the shoal and/or breach. Although I haven't played this MU a lot I personally think it's pretty tough even with leylines, they can easily overpower us in the early game.
Hi everyone! I'm thinking about switching my Grixis Delver into Mardu Pyro, for now I'm pretty on a budget but I have all the right cards apart from Blackcleaves and RW or BW fetches. I have now 2 Bloodstained Mire 2 Polluted Delta and 2 Flooded Strand and I was thinking about replacing the Strands with 2 other Mires, is this correct? What I'm fearing is that by doing this I'll lose the potential fetching for a basic plains or for a sacred foundry and get stuck with lingering souls in hand. It would be great if you could give me some advices since I'm pretty new to this deck.
A few thoughts:
1) Bomat Courier is a beast. He either draws removal that would otherwise be slowing down my clock, or provides the gas I need to push through lethal late in the game. He pretty much won me two matches against UW control.
2) I could use something to help me in matches where my opponents go wide fast. I lost a match against some kind of GW Collective Consciousness deck that just plays ramp, coco, and good cards (Ooze, KotR, etc). I would get in some damage, but by turn four the field would be cluttered with creatures that are better than mine. Scavenging Ooze is the worst. Maybe Seismic Stomp or something like that?
Related question: If they play first, and drop a mana dork, should I burn it as my T1 play? (Assuming I have alternatives like Guide, or Denizen).
3) Goblin Grenade is busted. I went up to four from three in the top-8 list.
That's a neat list, although I don't understand playing Firebrand over Mogg Fanatic but that's my opinion.
To answer to your question: against GW Valuetown there's not so much we can do, the goal is to be faster and kill them before they get value from their powerful creatures. Seismic Stomp may be useful but I wouldn't put it in my SB because there are better cards. (However kill the dork anytime you can!)
Goblin Granade is what makes this deck viable and I personally love it
The whole point of it is to tap your 3 mana, play a summons for one and sac three lands (or more), and then use the 2 mana in float to kick or surge a whacker. Then your 3/3's are 4/3's and have haste. With a loyalist on board they have first strike and trample. It's an obscene combo, you just need to know how to play it right.
Yeah you're right, I didn't see the potential until I tried it, really powerful combo. How's playing with 18 lands? I saw a lot of lists playing with 19 and I tried myself doing the same but sometimes I flood and sometimes I screw (which happens more rarely than flooding), so I didn't figured out yet what's the ideal number.
Unfortunately there is no similar card like Collective Brutality, but if I were you I wouldn't add a Murderous Cut cause I don't want to be so gy dependent. Although Dreadbore is fine, I'd add the 3rd Fatal Push cause I think that list is pretty light on removal
Hi everyone! I'm new to this thread but I recently fell in love with 8 Whack so I wanted to join you Goblin lovers. As a new member I think I have to share my list, so here we go:
I've seen so many people running Devastating Summons but personally I don't like that card so much because it requires to sacrify 3 lands to put 2 mediocre 3/3's at sorcery speed and when it gets countered it feels REALLY bad. I'd rather run 2 Shard Volley which are a concrete reach when we flood, at instant speed and doesn't feel so bad when the opponent counters it. Obviously I might be wrong since I'm a newbie to this deck.
Of course any feedback or advices are welcome!
P.S. There are no guides for now because my LGS haven't recived any of them yet, but I'll add them ASAP
Sometimes 3 pyro feels clunky so now I'm trying to add a Clique (or a Nimble Obstructionist for budget reason) and see how it goes. I don't think Ashiok would be useful enough against Jund or control, Spell Snare is a beast instead against Jund and I really recommend it.
Burn is always a tough MU but I think that the combination of Dispel + Countersquall + Brutality help us a lot, maybe you can add 1 or 2 dispels in your SB.
Against Tron you can use Alpine Moon since it cost only one mana and completely shuts off Tron lands (if you don't know it already Tron lands check the subtype "Urza's ..." not the name, so when you use Alpine Moon the subtype of the land you've chosen is rewritten) and the counters against colorless spells.
He played a deck with 18 creatures and 22 lands and put delver in it(ur wizards). As a player, considering he even had great results with it, nothing to say: he's a genius. But, as a deckbuilder, I wouldn't even ask him a list for an fnm.
Jokes aside, in my personal experience, I found both of them great and what has been umderwhelming was thought scour: it's randomness was too punishing and the chance to fuel a turbo delve threat was not worth the strain, so I run a list with only two tasigurs (and no anglers) and the playsets of both serum and opt, cutting all the scours and feel great with it, since I still can cast an easy t3 tas (but prefer it as a mid game fatty protected with counterspells or late game card advantage engine) and have other great threats like young peezy and clique.
The card I'm trying to evaluate at the moment is risk factor, since the jump start and instant speed are both great elements but I'm not sure the 4 damage "mode" will be good enough times to force the opponent to make you draw. I tried it in a jeskai version with way more burn but got a bit disappointed, maybe as a one or two of in the grindier grixis version could be better. Any thoughts about it?
My current list:
And my possible changes would be -1 dispel and -1 tasigur for +2 risk factor. Any thoughts?
Personally I don't like Risk Factor very much, the only way I see it in our deck it's on SB replacing Painful Truths, but maybe I'm understimating its potential. However if I were you I'd only put it in the place of a single dispel, I think that cutting a threat is not the best cause we have just only 14.
In any case please keep us updated on how Risk Factor performs!
Hi there! I signed in just to answer on this topic, and talk about this wonderful deck, i recently built
let' s talk about serum vision/opt...why do you guys prefer serum over opt? i' m trying playing 4 opt instead of serum, and it feels kinda better, the instant speed helps you on turn 1, when you can choose to opt, or just bolt the 1 drop creature oppo played; i think that the opportunity of choose what to do offers more value than serum, that force you to tap out turn 1, and then spend 1 other mana for bolt/push the creature on your second turn, without any chance to put a safe delver...on the other hand, serum set up the flip, but you still need to wait turn 3 to flip him if you serum on turn1...even without serum i flipped delver pretty often, so imo, serum is kinda worthless now. Serum is actually meh even on top deck, when you prefer opt to literally see what you are goign to draw, and if it s a bad card, bottom it and draw another one.
Next one, i pretty much want to cut out all of the leaks or 2 mana counterspells, or maybe just some of them, and put in more spellpierce/dispel, or some other way to protect our delver on turn 2; 2 mana counterspell seems too high on cost, especially when we stuck on 2 lands and it's almost impossibile to snapcaster them :/ what about some discard spells to get rid of potentials removals or other threats? maybe i' m too settled on protecting delver but i would like to know your thoughts; a combination of 1 mana counterspell/discard would be great in my modest opinion.
Hi and welcome to this thread! Recently I've been thinking about the "Serum or Opt" dilemma too, but unfortunately I haven't got the chance yet to try my deck with -4 serum and +4 opt. Maybe in these days I'll test it online and at an FNM and report the results.
Regarding discard spells it's quite a "thorny speech", someone likes it cause you can remove a huge threat while others say that you're actually losing tempo and since Grixis Delver is a tempo deck it's quite important. I've tried 2 IoK maindeck and they were fine, not the best topdeck in lategame but in early sometimes they took off some powerful threat. In conclusion I think that playing or not discard depends on your playstyle
I like it because it's similar to what I'm gonna test when MH will come out, but personally I'll replace the Angrath's Rampage with the old 1/1 split of Dreadbore and Terminate because most of the time I prefer targeting rather than playing around a hexproof creature, especially when you already have the "edict" effect in form of 2 LotV.
Regarding Ashiok I like it too and I will probably test it soon.
I'm Italian so my English may be not good neither, I hope you understand what I was meaning
Saheeli is also not quite good, sure thing she can make a few tokens but the -2 ability gets online only by turn 4 and only after we played a spell. As the Professor teach you need to think about "the ceiling and the floor" of a card: the ceiling is the best scenario, which in this case is Saheeli copy a Pyro or a Bedlam Reveler (this abilty is not good alone, think always that you need to cast a non-creature spell the turn after you played Saheeli), the floor is the worst scenario, which are many in this case for example you draw Saheeli after a boardwipe or you have only a bunch of Souls tokens on play. All in all I just think that Saheeli is not good enough, but these are my consideration and I would glad if someone will prove me wrong.
I think Leylines and Surgicals are your best friends against this deck, G1 I think it's probably always unwinnable if they have the combo. G2 and G3 the best way is put leyline on board and make them discard the shoal and/or breach. Although I haven't played this MU a lot I personally think it's pretty tough even with leylines, they can easily overpower us in the early game.
Here's my list:
2x Blood Crypt
4x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Polluted Delta
1x Sacred Foundry
3x Swamp
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Concealed Courtyard
2x Dragonskull Summit
4x Bedlam Reveler
1x Hazoret the Fervent
4x Young Pyromancer
//Non-Creature Spells
1x Cast Down
1x Collective Brutality
4x Faithless Looting
3x Fatal Push
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
4x Lingering Souls
2x Terminate
2x Thoughtseize
2x Blood Moon
That's a neat list, although I don't understand playing Firebrand over Mogg Fanatic but that's my opinion.
To answer to your question: against GW Valuetown there's not so much we can do, the goal is to be faster and kill them before they get value from their powerful creatures. Seismic Stomp may be useful but I wouldn't put it in my SB because there are better cards. (However kill the dork anytime you can!)
Goblin Granade is what makes this deck viable and I personally love it
Yeah you're right, I didn't see the potential until I tried it, really powerful combo. How's playing with 18 lands? I saw a lot of lists playing with 19 and I tried myself doing the same but sometimes I flood and sometimes I screw (which happens more rarely than flooding), so I didn't figured out yet what's the ideal number.
15 Mountain
4 Ramunap Ruins
Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Shard Volley
4 Goblin Grenade
Creatures
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Goblin Piledriver
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
I've seen so many people running Devastating Summons but personally I don't like that card so much because it requires to sacrify 3 lands to put 2 mediocre 3/3's at sorcery speed and when it gets countered it feels REALLY bad. I'd rather run 2 Shard Volley which are a concrete reach when we flood, at instant speed and doesn't feel so bad when the opponent counters it. Obviously I might be wrong since I'm a newbie to this deck.
Of course any feedback or advices are welcome!
P.S. There are no guides for now because my LGS haven't recived any of them yet, but I'll add them ASAP
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Polluted Delta
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
2 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
//Instants
1 Dispel
1 Electrolyze
3 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
1 Collective Brutality
4 Serum Visions
//Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Gurmag Angler
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Alpine Moon
2 Anger of the Gods
2 By Force
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Countersquall
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Echoing Truth
1 Extirpate
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Tormod's Crypt
Sometimes 3 pyro feels clunky so now I'm trying to add a Clique (or a Nimble Obstructionist for budget reason) and see how it goes. I don't think Ashiok would be useful enough against Jund or control, Spell Snare is a beast instead against Jund and I really recommend it.
Burn is always a tough MU but I think that the combination of Dispel + Countersquall + Brutality help us a lot, maybe you can add 1 or 2 dispels in your SB.
Against Tron you can use Alpine Moon since it cost only one mana and completely shuts off Tron lands (if you don't know it already Tron lands check the subtype "Urza's ..." not the name, so when you use Alpine Moon the subtype of the land you've chosen is rewritten) and the counters against colorless spells.
That's my 2 cents, hope it helps you!
Personally I don't like Risk Factor very much, the only way I see it in our deck it's on SB replacing Painful Truths, but maybe I'm understimating its potential. However if I were you I'd only put it in the place of a single dispel, I think that cutting a threat is not the best cause we have just only 14.
In any case please keep us updated on how Risk Factor performs!
Hi and welcome to this thread! Recently I've been thinking about the "Serum or Opt" dilemma too, but unfortunately I haven't got the chance yet to try my deck with -4 serum and +4 opt. Maybe in these days I'll test it online and at an FNM and report the results.
Regarding discard spells it's quite a "thorny speech", someone likes it cause you can remove a huge threat while others say that you're actually losing tempo and since Grixis Delver is a tempo deck it's quite important. I've tried 2 IoK maindeck and they were fine, not the best topdeck in lategame but in early sometimes they took off some powerful threat. In conclusion I think that playing or not discard depends on your playstyle