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Dec 3, 2018I think skipping the dredge is very open to debate as each situation may be different. Just one example would be how many Creeping Chill's are left in the deck and life total of your opponent? I dont think there is a solid answer to that particular question.Posted in: Combo
BR Hollow One is the aggressor. We really just need to effectively answer their threats and wait for our mid- to late- game engine to take over. Sometime they just land a perfect hand and we can't really stop them. Seems like post-board you'll want to bring in Ancient Grudge, Nature's Claim, and Lightning Axe to help play the control role and answer graveyard hate. Also remember you can dredge off the Burning Inquiry which can enable us effectively early game.
Nov 29, 2018@psychedlicgerm – no problem, glad to give you my perspective on sideboards and manabases. I’m happy you are liking Thoughtseize out of the board. I don’t have any Storm players in my local meta and the KCI player recently moved away so Damping Sphere isn’t really needed for me, but if you find it helpful then certainly run it in the board and let me know how well it works in the matchups!Posted in: Combo
@Loraik – If cutting a Life from the Loam works for you, then just play it that way. I think an extra Golgari Thug is more important if you are running the lower dredge count of 10 cards. I prefer to run more dredgers in my version because it also increases the chances to chain dredgers. I geeked out a bit and ran some numbers through the Hypergeometric Distribution Calculator on StatTrek and found that the % to chain with more Thugs and 10 Dredgers was slightly higher than running 12 Dredgers with more Loams. Both were less than 60% though. I was actually recently considering posting why I think Darkblast should be a 2-of in the main a few days ago and that kind of fits into this conversation as well as I was planning on making an argument for cutting 1 Thug…
I cut my Gogari Thugs down to 1 and upped Darkblast to 2 because I find the latter to be more useful to cast during a game. Per MTG Goldfish (as of November 2018) Darkblast can kill 7 of the top 10 most played creatures in Modern. Looking over the entire list, I believe the number increases to 32 out of 50 (counting Hangarback Walker and Walking Ballista). This is a huge number of potential, main deck targets for Darkblast to hit. Also, given that it only costs B, you can kill an early Noble Hierarch and set up your initial Dredge while putting your opponent back a turn. I haven’t noticed a significant hit in my ability to Dredge, although I do like running 12 Dredge cards instead of 10 and I really think I’d like to try and push that number to 13 at some point in the future. An additional edge Darkblast gives is the ability to kill your own Bloodghasts in response or to set up future Prized Amalgam triggers. I’d love to hear some others input on this. I know a lot of people love the higher Dredge count Golgari Thug offers, but isn’t just a straight increase in the quality of your Dredge cards AND quantity of them per deck just as valid? Maybe the correct answer is to run both as a 2 of and cut somewhere else? Looking again at the distribution - Dredging 4 cards with 10 in the deck gives you a 55% to continue the chain while Dredging 4 cards with 13 in the deck increases the chances to 67%. That’s significant increase in my opinion.
Either way, I look forward to other comments on this topic. For reference, I've attempted to attach my spreadsheet regarding the chances of having a Dredger in the opening hand, within the first 9 cards (based of Turn 1 Faithless Looting or Shriekhorn), and the chance of hitting another dredge card with Dredge 3, 4, 5 pending there are 51 cards remaining in the deck - perhaps for a Turn 2 Cathartic Reunion. Happy Gaming!
Nov 27, 2018Engineered Explosives seems fine for taking out various problems. I've never tested it out before so I don't have any solid opinions on how good it could be. The pros are that it can take out a lot of problems and comes down early if you draw it. It is in Takahashi list for the sideboard guide he made earlier this year. Looks strongest versus Boggles, Death Shadow, Lantern, and Humans (all of which lean on 1 and 2 drops). Maybe if you are seeing those a lot, consider it? Damping Sphere seems sweet if you expect a lot of Storm or KCI. You also get some disruption for Tron as an added bonus. Again, I've never tested it so I don't have any solid opinions on it. I think all things considered, I prefer disruption that can help continue my game plan while stopping my opponent and their hate cards more than just disrupting their deck.Posted in: Combo
I really like Lightning Axe for midrange decks. The ability to kill Scavenging Ooze after it's eaten a few creatures is nice. Plus, it's a clean answer to Gurmag Angler, Hollow One, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, or Death's Shadow. Generally I side out Shriekhorn for them in Games 2/3.
Here is a link to some formatting tips.
Nov 26, 2018I'm glad you like the deck, psychedlicgerm and I'm happy my post helped. Both Tron and Amulet Titan (or other big mana decks like Titan Shift) are difficult matches. Generally they can over the top with large threats and run main deck hate in the form of Relic of Progenitus. I personally think Ghost Quarter is too slow; as I pointed out earlier, without naturally drawing it on your initial draws, it will be turn 3 before you can get it online with Life from the Loam. Assassin's Trophy seems more universal (hitting various forms of grave hate) and can start putting Tron off lands as early as turn 2. I haven’t tried out Assassin's Trophy yet, but I like how it isn't as narrow and I'd run 2 of those instead of making room for Ghost Quarter.Posted in: Combo
The second thing I'd like to mention is how much anti-hate cards your running overall. I understand we are a graveyard based deck and effects that remove that resource have a major impact on us, but 7 dedicated slots seems like too much. I like running 2-3 Nature's Claim, 1-2 Ancient Grudge, and use the extra room to buffer other matches with universal hate such as Assassin's Trophy or Thoughtseize .
Regarding Thoughtseize, I like running 3 in the board. It generally come in versus Combo decks, big mana decks, and any Wx deck that may be running Rest in Peace. Versus combo, we gain access to disruption to buy a turn or two and possibly close things out before they find a key card. Versus big mana we take the treats away before they hit the battlefield – again possibly buying a turn or two. Versus Wx, we have the potential of stripping the best graveyard hate card before they can cast it. There has been a few games where I’ve played where my opponent keeps a bad hand with Rest in Peace hoping that will stop the Dredge and a turn 1 Thoughtseize wins the game.
Hope this helps ya figure out some sideboard options! Happy Gaming!
Nov 25, 2018I don't like the idea of cutting any Thoughtseize from my board because of the versatility it can provide. Bringing in a single Ghost Quarter to combat Tron seems lack-luster to me and a bit slow. There are a few other decks where Ghost Quarter can be helpful, but overall how quickly can you bring it online? The earliest I can see, without drawing it naturally in your opening hand, is turn 3. Even then, it's pending you have Life from the Loam AND dredged over the Ghost Quarter before making your turn 3 land drop. Tron is a bad matchup and I don't want to discourage innovation to try and improve the match; however, I think that Creeping Chill has vastly helped us race decks like Tron and lead to going all in and hope they don't drop a timely Relic of Progenitus. The best cards to bring in for Tron is your artifact hate of choice, generally some number of Ancient Grudge or Nature's Claim and Thoughtseize. Disrupting their ability to effectively assemble Tron or having anything relevent to play with all that mana is key to winning. Here is my current list if you'd like to see my board. Unfortunately, I only get to Modern once a month so I don't get to practice too frequently. I have gone 3-0 for the last two FNM's I did attend however running this list (minus the Steam Vents change I made to see how much I'd miss Gemstone Mine). I hope this helps and let me know if you'd like anymore of my opinions regarding the board. Happy Gaming!Posted in: Combo
Nov 24, 2018I don't think cutting Thoughtseize is correct. The card is very versatile out of the board as it can be a form of Graveyard hate, hitting a Rest in Peace before your opponent can resolve one, OR combo-hate, which is great because we are weak to most other combo decks. If you want to add graveyard hate, I'd consider trimming one or two Ancient Grudges and maybe move one Darkblast to the main deck? Overall, what are you planning on killing with Grudge? Grafdigger's Cage prevents the flashback and Relic of Progenitus or Nihil Spellbomb will likely get crack in response (which at least lets you control the cracking, but still pulls value from Grudge). The only real powerful use that I generally use Grudge in is versus Affinity, KCI, or Lantern deck because they overload of possible targets. Just my two cent. Happy Gaming!Posted in: Combo
Nov 23, 2018Just some notes on the lists we are seeing more now:Posted in: Combo
- The Primer recommends 13-15 Dredge cards, however most lists have cut down to 10-12 to make room for Creeping Chill. Also, Dakmor Salvage seems to have fallen out of favor - however I think it's still pretty important.
- Shriekhorn has replaced Insolent Neonate in most lists that I've seen. The reasoning being that without Troll anymore, the explosiveness of Neonate has faded.
- Life from the Loam, in my opinion, is a core card and should be a 4 of now. It works so well with Conflagrate and closing out games, especially with Creeping Chill.
Just my thoughts and observations.
Thanks for your time updating the thread!
Nov 16, 2018Welcome psychedlicgerm!Posted in: Combo
The only reason, as I'm sure you know, we even run these lands is to ensure we can cast our blue creatures in a pinch. I prefer Gemstone Mine as I don't like the extra damage from Mana Confluence or City of Brass - however, diversity is always nice when you're opponent is running Surgical Extraction. I have also seen some cases for running Steam Vents over the other choices as you can fetch up your blue mana when you need it. As far as what fetches to run, you really only care about fetching up your Rx lands so any Rx fetch works. If you decided to run a one-of Forest, then maybe lean toward a playset of Wooded Foothills over the others, but in general just a variety of Rx will work. For the number of fetches to run, I think the minimum is 5 - it's nice to play around Surgical Extraction, Anger of the Gods, or other hate cards with a fetchland activation in response. I've seen people running 7 before, but I personally find that a little high and I prefer my Blackcleave Cliffs (just me really from what I've seen). Here is the manabase I've been running lately if you'd like to see another list:
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards 2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Copperline Gorge
1 Dakmor Salvage
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Stomping Ground
2 Wooded Foothills
However, next FNM I plan to try out the Steam Vents with this:
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards 2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Steam Vents
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Stomping Ground
2 Wooded Foothills
Hope this helps and Happy Gaming!
Oct 30, 2018I havent played with Assassin's Trophy yet, mostly because I havent felt like dropping the money on them, however the ability to shoot a Tron land on turn 2 and slow down the Tron player gives Dredge a little more time to push the damage in. There are also some fringe cases against some other decks, such as infect, where Abrupt Decay cant shoot down an Inkmoth Nexus. I think the biggest arguement I've heard against the Trophy is two mana and giving the opponent an extra land is slowing the deck down by delaying our engine and losing tempo (because of the land). Sorry I dont have much more insight on the card, but I hope analysis helps.Posted in: Combo
Oct 26, 2018Path to Exile and Blood Moon is a non-bo. Besides, between Lightning Bolt and Fatal Push we have a good suite on one-drop interaction. Maybe if you dropped the Moon, but I dont know if that's correct.Posted in: Midrange
Does the deck really need an anthem effect? Going wide is probably enough to close out a game and if you feel like you need a anthem, why not run a permanent buff instead of a single turn?
Risk Factor seems okay, but what would the deck remove to make room for it? The deck already runs Faithless Looting and Bedlam Revealer for card draw, do we need another effect? Maybe a one-of for testing? I dont think it will help you if your behind as your opponent can deny the card draw and if your ahead it just seems to not matter more than the other options. I'd be interested in hearing other peoples thoughts on this card or how it's worked in their testing.
Oct 25, 2018I agree with Stillenacht288, the Cycle lands entering tapped is a major downside in the early turns. Running one Dakmor Salvage has occasionally made opening hands awkward, but there has been times when I need to dredge a land back to trigger Bloodghast when I'm lacking or unable to cast a Life from the Loam. I prefer the 3 Shriekhorn build as I enjoy a higher number of Dredge cards in the deck and I think Darkblast is a great card in the main. Happy Gaming!Posted in: Combo
Oct 22, 2018@ TheLoneN00b - First, a more tactful way of asking your question would be along the lines of, "I love playing Humans, but find my Dredge matchup very difficult. Can anyone please provide insight on if Grafdigger's Cage is an effective sideboard card or ideal targets for Meddling Mage?" Try to remember, just because you hate an archetype doesn't mean others should to. Second, I would think the Humans thread would be a much better place to seek advice as they are more likely to know your lines of play instead of Dredge players spitballing ideas without any solid context of the intricacies of your deck. Third, Grafdigger's Cage is annoying, but doesnt stop the Dredge mechanic or Creeping Chill; I just wait until I'm ready for a big turn, blow up the Cage and carry on. Meddling Mage requires some more context on the board state and graveyard to name correctly, sorry I cant provide more advice on that front. Lastly, it's okay to have unfavorable to bad matchups. If one deck was perfect in the format then everyone would play it. Good luck and happy gaming!Posted in: Combo
@ PraiseTheKappa - Welcome to the forum, I don't know how I feel about a basic forest and swamp in the 75. I was running a single basic forest for a little while and ran into a few situations where I wanted to Conflagrate into a Faithless Looting but had one Forest and two Rx lands in play. Ultimately, we really only care about a small handful of red cards to cast and I think one or two basic Mountains is enough to play around Path to Exile; Field of Ruin and Assassin's Trophy only stall as we can get most of those targets back again when our engine is online. Shriekhorn is four in the yard by the next draw step while Insolent Neonate need you to have a Dredge card in hand. Most list are also trimming on Dredgers for Creeping Chill and not having to mulligan as often due to Neonate needing a Dredger is nice.
Oct 21, 2018The decks popularity dropped because people want to try out Assassin's Trophy in the BGx midrange decks. Doesn't mean Mardu isn't good anymore, just a new flavor of midrange for the foreseeable future.Posted in: Midrange
Regarding the triggers, I'm not a judge but here is some nifty site I found regarding the topic. My interpretation is that once the spell resolves, Young Pyromancer's trigger is missed. It's probably best to get into the habit of casting a spell, announcing the trigger.
MTG Judge Website, no author given and a bit dated at 2013
MTG Salvation question/forum, bit more up-to-date from 2017.
Oct 21, 2018What would you bring Pithing Needle in against? I think between Ancient Grudge, Nature's Claim, and Lighting Axe we have the tools needed to combat the most popular sideboard graveyard hate such as Relic of Progenitus, Leyline of the Void, and Scavenging Ooze. If you plan to stop planewalkers with the Needle, why not just bring the beats with the team or ignore them and race? Same with man-land, if my opponent is activating and chumping with Celestial Colonnade then I'm probably already winning that game. I just don't know what matches I would want to have a Needle in against.Posted in: Combo
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