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  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    I find myself trying to board it in in most matches and I run the Humans version! It just seems like a great piece of tempo and disruption, with a 2/3 flash flyer as a fail case. Even against very aggressive decks, being able to quell a lord or pump spell might buy you additional turns or make combat unfavourable , and Burn has to expend extra resources to get it off the board as the 3 toughness blocks their 2 power creatures.

    I run 3 in my sideboard, and think that the lack of synergy is worth it to have a tempo catch-all for unknown decks.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Modern Humans
    Quote from ketoglutarate »
    a few questions about how to address certain hate:

    • how do we deal with lantern control? kataki + vithian renegades may be enough, but Ensnaring Bridge is always a bit concerning
    • how do we deal with a resolved Blood Moon? we're still a 5c deck.. maybe it's correct to still keep a rec sage, a war priest of thune or a fracturing gust? Obviously freebooter and meddling mage are already answers to that particular threat.
    • how to deal with bogles? i like kitesail freebooter/meddling mage for early hand disruption and champion of the parish to race, but the other cards are not that useful. Maybe Kambal, consul of allocation to tax all their spells? I'd also like something like runed halo but the WW cost is pretty harsh


    I think what I have learnt is that in Modern you cannot hope to answer every deck's best play, and you have to pick your battles. Obviously this is easier for paper magic as you can build up an idea of your local meta and sideboard accordingly, or consider the type of event you're playing in - FNM and online league will be more varied and people will play their pet decks more than in a GP or PPTQ where you might want to tweak in favour of 'the best' or the more established decks.

    I'm loathe to give up sideboard slots up to fight other 'fair' creature decks, as if we can't win those then we're playing the wrong deck. In an open tournament environment I think we need to sideboard against the more unfair/solitaire style decks and the decks that demand specific answers, and be aware that our opponent is usually reaching for their removal and boardwipes against us. Kingcar's new list is interesting because it appears to give us more disruption to take away our opponent's powerful cards, whilst putting bodies on the board, which is kind of what I find myself siding into most games anyway.

    There are obviously specific answers too all the above decks/cards, but I think Blood Moon would be the most common concern of the three, and the one I definitely agree with - we have a greedy mana base, and I think we should expect to play against a Blood Moon in a big tournament. People have pointed out how to alter your play to respect a possible Blood Moon, and most/all sideboards should pack Reclamation Sage/Qasali Pridemage/Vithian Renegades & War Priest to answer artifacts/enchantments. Some lists also run Negate/Unified Will, and I also run Spell Queller as my generic 'catch-all' for stuff I don't like/expect. Don't forget you can Path your creatures to get a basic land to untap with on your next turn, it hurts, but I pathed a Champion of the Parish to fetch basic Forest last week, untapped and played CoCo, hit 2 Noble Hierarchs and dug myself out from under a Blood Moon!

    An interesting card I've seen showing up in lists is Gideon's Intervention, sort of an expensive Runed Halo that I use in standard, but it does work against Valakut and whichever creature the Bogles player has put the most stuff onto. Possibly too slow versus Lantern control, but you could sneak it out Turn 3 with a mana dork and name Bridge, although that'd be a game where I'd be bringing in my Quellers and Negates.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    Serious question here for everybody. Do you feel that this deck is Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3? Now I know when it comes down to it, it really is semantics and (most) any solidly built deck on any given day can take down a Modern tournament. But how do you feel it ranks with the likes of Grixis Shadow, E Tron, Titanshift, and Affinity? I realize that it probably matters less now that WotC is giving less info, but it irks me a little bit for us to be listed here on MTGS as "Tier 3."

    Here's my opinion...
    I feel that it's Tier 2, but close to Tier 1. I think it's a very strong deck that is underestimated in the meta. I know. I underestimated it for the longest time until I decided to finally try it 6 months ago. I'm pretty sure many are the same way.


    I think part of the difficulty comes from the huge variety of decks that get lumped together under the Green/White+Company banner. Take this forum thread for example, you have Bant Knightfall, Humans Knightfall, Vizier Knightfall etc etc, and that's before you start to muddy the waters further with Abzan or straight G/W 'valuetown' builds.

    If there was a clearly more successful build than the others then I think consensus would start to solidify around it being a Tier 2 deck that has game against most other established decks (apart from Valakut based decks IMO), with a good creature base as a floor and a turn 3 combo to steal wins. As I currently see it, Knightfall lacks a clear identity due to Collected Company, which is such as powerful card that makes people think of Knightfall as "a CoCo deck that runs a combo", but not the new 'hotness combo' of the Vizier CoCo deck. The Knightfall combo is clearly powerful, but I don't think it's how people who don't run the deck would describe the lists, particularly the Humans versions.

    As it is, I think it gets lumped in with as 'GW CoCo stuff', and with no clear identity, it won't get the focus it needs to solidify as a Tier deck. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - I quite like having a powerful Humans deck that is sort of under the radar/underestimated, and I think that it shows how varied the GW CoCo lists can be, so there is lots of variation and tech/spice to try, maybe it shows that the deck isn't quite ready for the spotlight, as the consensus isn't there from multiple people posting results with very similar decks.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    Hello!

    I need some advice in playing the Knightfall combo Frown I always played aggro and this is my first try on a combo deck. I'm playing a similar human-list like Wangan Midnight. Only difference i run 2x Mayor of Avabruck and 4x Path to Exile. And my Sideboard is a bit different.


    I would agree that 4 Path and 2 Mayor is the correct choice normally, my local meta is a lot of non-creature decks so I keep the 4th in the sideboard. For the PPTQ I'm attending this week I'll run 4 Path main.

    If you're playing Human Knightfall, remember that you're a perfectly serviceable creature deck most of the time. I view the combo as a nice bonus, but I win more often off of a Turn 1 Champion of the Parish into more humans to present a clock that other Humans take on later in the game.

    I'm not expert with this deck, I came to it from straight 4 Colour Humans, but personally;

    1) You're right to force the combo early on, make them have something like Path early on or snatch a win.
    2) But you're right, it depends on the matchup. I think the Burn matchup is one where you have to try and avoid helping them reduce your life total. If you can get a Knight to a 6/6 or so then you're pretty much sorted for a wall that survives a Goblin Guide + Bolt type combo, but you can use your Retreats defensively - like cracking a fetch on your opponent's turn to tap down one of their creatures before combat. I personally board out the Retreats and bring in whatever anti-red card I have in my sideboard - Burrenton Forge Tender, Auriok Champion, Kor Firewalker etc. Bant Black lists get Sin Collector and Kambal, Consul of Allocation which I'd board into as well.
    3) Try and evaluate how important it is that you combo off there and then. If you are ahead then you might not need to, and your opponent might let you hit them for 4/5 damage for free. If you are really behind then you've just got to go for it. There is also the utility of trading life for thinning your deck of lands, so if you have your 4/5 lands then it might be helpful to thin a few lands out of your deck to help you draw more gas.
    4) In my experience it is your life total or getting yourself to a dead-end by not being able to sacrifice a forest or plains to the Knight's ability. If you are comboing off, make a mental note of what fetches you have left and the Plains/Forests you can fetch from them so you don't search up a fetch that can't fetch Shocked .
    5) If you have the disruption in your sideboard then you might be able to cut it, but I feel we gain an edge but having synergy in our deck versus traditional builds which may have more individual utility, but no overall synergy, so we can keep it in as a nice bonus, and in a straight fight I think we have the better creatures. You can catch up in the combo race with a Reflector Mage or Meddling Mage to disrupt them if needed.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Modern Humans
    Quote from kingcars »
    [quote from="polymorpher »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/769652-modern-humans?comment=565"]What do you think about playing Mantis Rider instead of Anafenza or a one of Abzan Falconer?

    Anafenza, the Foremost is a fantastic magic card, just try it out!


    This! I ran Bant Black Humans at GP Birmingham, and everytime I played my singleton Anafenza, she got a reaction from my opponents, usually something like "Yeah, sure... wait, what does she do again? Oh, cool... and she's a 4/4?!". I was never unhappy to see her.

    Your deck looks interesting, I like the idea of a proactive disruption deck, speaking as someone who gets punished for risky keeps myself this seems like a great way to disrupt an opponent, whilst building a Humans beat down. I also like that it cleans up your sideboard into very clear options that support your gameplan or address specific matchups. Plus I just miss Kambal and Sin Collector in my current Bant Red Human Knightfall list!
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    Quote from Wesste »
    Thanks for your response. Sorry, should've specified: I'm running a Bant list with a single red splash for Kessig, as you suggested. I don't have a black splash, but thanks for the suggestions.

    How have you found staticaster working out? Any trouble casting it due to colours? I may look into it as a possible option. The meta is quite varied out my FNM but no Affinity and I'm the only one that runs Vizier Company....

    I may try a couple of Selfless Spirit too. Without a decent tutor (I.e Chord) I think the chances of hitting a single from the sideboard are pretty slim, and don't think it is worth having more than 1-2... thoughts?

    I'm hoping that Auriok Champion and Thalia can do enough to stall the burn match up, along with Blessed Alliance. But I might invest in some Spell Quellers.... would you favour these over Unified Will?

    Any other major problem match ups people are facing?

    Can you post your list and some match results please?



    Sorry, I'm a little confused - you're running Bant Red Humans with both the Knightfall and Vizier combos? If you read the thread a few pages back there was some discussion around having both combos in, and the dangers of drawing half of both combos etc. If you're playing both combos I definitely think you are better off in a non Humans shell, as that is three deckbuilding restraints you're imposing on yourself.

    I haven't played much with Staticaster, there's only one occasional Affinity player at FNM level at my LGS, so I board it in for larger scale tournaments where some of the people from the wider area bring Affinity. I do board it in when I know the Elves players are playing though ^^
    It's definitely not free to cast as it is the fourth colour in my deck, and Noble Hierarch doesn't help with it. I run 8 fetches that can get my red source and a couple of Cavern of Souls, so I consider it worth the risk.

    Whatever form of Knightfall/Humans/Combo you are running it is a very creature focused deck, with the value in all cases coming from being able to stick creatures on the board for Retreat/Human synergy/Infinite mana. Your opponent will be siding in removal wherever possible to stop your board development and avoid whichever combo you are running, so I feel you need to respect that and side in some protection, whether that is counterspells or protection type effects. Spell Queller and Selfless Spirit are preferable for me as they are creatures to hit off a Collected Company, whilst also adding to your clock, but in some matches they aren't enough. I have a lot of combo-style decks in my local meta, so Negate/Unified Will are great against Storm, Ad Nauseum, Mill, Scapeshift.

    I agree Thalia and Auriok Champ are fine cards against Burn, and if there is enough of it locally for you you can afford to have specific answers for it. Again, it varies for me locally, so I have Burrenton Forge Tender as I think it answers Valakut decks better, and I hate playing against Valakut decks.

    My current deck is something like this, which is an evolution from Bant Black Humans to Bant Black Knightfall to Bant Red Knightfall. The sideboard is incomplete as they're my current core of cards I wouldn't change. For a big tournament I would add 2 Burrenton Forge Tender, 1 War Priest of Thune and maybe a Mirran Crusader if I expected GB decks, or a Pithing Needle.


    I took the deck to FNM last Friday and went 3-0.

    Played Abzan Vizier Combo 1st Round. He interrupts my turn 3 Knightfall combo by sacrificing his Qasali Pridemage, so we settle into a long grindy match where I Path combo pieces and start to force chump blocks with 6/6 Knights. I eventually use a Knight to get my Kessig Wolf Run and trample through. Game 2 we end up going to time and draw, as I Quell and Path combo pieces, and Pithing Needle his Rhonas to stop any combat blowouts with all the mana he has accrued.
    In > Spell Quellers, Path, Pithing Needle - trying to disrupt the combo
    Out > Retreats, Mayor, E Witness - our combo is worse than theirs, they run little removal so Witness is less good

    Played Merfolk 2nd round. I mull to five, keep Champion of the Parish and Noble Hierarch plus 3 lands. Draw spells for the next 6 turns, eventually my things are quite big and a Reflector Mage plus Path to Exile really evens things up.
    Second game I have a quick start and my opponent does not. I play Humans every turn and he fails to find a lord to keep up.
    In > Path, Queller x2 - they're a creature based deck so the fourth Path is needed, Queller gobbles up Lords
    Out > Thalia, Retreat x2 - I didn't feel I needed the combo here, and on the draw Thalia is too late versus Aether Vial and Spreading Seas.

    Played Elves 3rd round. We build boards but a Knight of the Reliquary keeps his creatures at bay after my turn 2 Thalia into Turn 3 Thalia really slows him down. I misplay into Ezurri mana and trade more creatures than I'd have liked, but the Knights keep on growing and eventually one tramples through.
    Game 2 I focus on the Elvish Archdruids to prevent his payoff. Queller gets one early and Reflector Mage bounces another when he had his other two on board and a few mana dorks, which took him off 15 mana and his other card in hand - Emrakul EEK!
    In > Path, Queller x2,Crusader x2
    Out > Thalia, Retreat x2, Eternal Witness x2

    Then played a friend on Storm a few times and had some great matches, including coming out from under a Blood Moon by pathing my Champion of the Parish for a basic forest end of turn, to then hit double Hierarch off of a Collected Company for the Negate I had in hand! Negate and Spell Quellers are all stars in this matchup, as is the Canonist if it doesn't get bolted, which it always does.

    Great Cards
    Reflector Mage - A sort of Human Spell Queller. Stops creature combo/mana generation, removes blockers, disrupts your opponent's turn, and leaves behind a 2/3 Human body? Sign me up.
    Spell Queller - people don't expect it from the Humans list, and it matches up so well against high creature low removal decks like Merfolk, Vizier Combo and Elves.
    Knight of the Reliquary - with the right hands she just grows out of control. I don't feel the combo is always necessary here, especially as I have Lieutenants and Mayors to pump my Knights, and if you get into a ground stall they sit on defence happily and then power up end of your turn or get trample for your attack phase.

    I'm still not happy with my sideboard, as I miss the disruption of Kambal, Consul of Allocation and Sin Collector you get in Black, so any suggestions welcome. Mirran Crusader is one I always like to have in there, but does it help me all that much in the matchups I hate - Valakut and Eldrazi Tron?


    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Knightfall/Bant Company
    Quote from Wesste »
    Anyone who is playing the Bant humans list, can you post your sideboard please?

    I seem to struggle against a lot of removal. Is heroic intervention worth consideration? I also haven't played Dredge yet, but wondering whether Grafdigger's cage is a better call than bojuka bog?

    Mine is as follows:
    2 auriok champion
    1 dusk/dawn
    3 unified will
    2 blessed alliance
    1 qasali preidemage
    1 bojuka bog
    2 stony silence
    2 meddling Mage
    1 ehtersworn canonist

    Welcome everyone's feedback Smile


    Firstly are you straight Bant? I guess if you’re posting in the Knightfall forum you are Bant with a red splash for the Kessig Wolf Run finisher, but maybe not?

    If you have the red splash then the most commonly played red Humans are Izzet Staticaster to zap mana dorks, elves and affinity creatures and Vithian Renegades for artifact destruction you can hit off a Collected Company. If you splash black then you have Kambal and Sin Collector as your two sideboard options for disrupting combo decks or snatching key spells (such as removal). In straight Bant you don’t have those options, so maybe consider something like Selfless Spirit for removal, as you can play it early and hit it off a Collected Company.

    Personally I think it has to be a very powerful card or an obvious weakness to include a non-creature spell as it reduces the powerfulness of our Collected Company hits, and to a lesser degree if it is a non-human card for the synergies we run.

    Stony Silence is the obvious choice as a non-creature sideboard card, it’s the best effect against a well-established powerful deck like Affinity. Scape/Titanshift demands similar respect for me, so Negate/Flashfreeze/Unified Will are necessary for my sideboard.

    Burn can be a tricky match in my eyes, if they hit their Searing Blaze/Blood effects they can really slow your early turns down and leave you playing catchup, but a timely 2 mana Thalia into 3 mana Thalia or a Sin Collector or Kambal swings things back in our favour. Something like Auriok Champion is a fine sideboard card, but people also run Burrenton Forge Tender to provide broader utility in other matches where the lifegain is less important but preventing a key source of red damage is.

    As has been pointed out, any graveyard/non-cast creature hate has to be one sided as it neutralises our Knights and CoCos. I don’t run any as I find Path to Exile and Reflector Mage enough against Dredge, backed up by 2 and 3 mana Thalia to add a bit more disruption.

    My personal sideboard inclusion is 3x Spell Queller. So much of Modern, Tron aside, relies on spells that cost 4 mana or less, and Spell Queller is great disruption in this case. Combo pieces in Storm, Anger/Damnation/Push/Path, Vizier combo creatures, opponent’s CoCo, Merfolk lords etc etc etc. You can usually get the first one in for free as they assume you won’t be running them in Humans, and you can bluff it in the future alongside mana for a Path to Exile or Collected Company, which ensures you don’t waste turns hoping they play something you want to Queller. I really like it when you have a board out already but don’t want to commit your second wave of creatures into an Anger or Verdict. Plus in a ground stall a 2/3 flyer with an exalted trigger or 2 is pretty handy.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Modern Humans
    The list seems clean, similar to the list that Top 8'd GP Birmingham.

    I haven't watched the streams yet, the only card I'm second guessing is Blessed Alliance - is it in for Burn? Death's Shadow?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Humans
    Quote from Xanis »

    Does this deck make sense and is sufficiently aggressive? Does sideboard help address the weaknesses of this deck?
    It makes sense as a white weenie aggro Humans deck. When I played a similar list, your main weaknesses are board wipes/sweepers, running out of cards and pushing through the last 2/3 points of damage at the end of a match. Your sideboard will also depend on how common decks like Affinity and Dredge are for you, and whether you'll need the appropriate hate in Stony Silence and Rest in Peace.

    Selfless Spirit helps with the first problem, I also think you should be running 4 Brave the Elements main deck, it lets you steal games by getting past blockers and protects your board at key times. Auriok Champion is similar to Kor Firewalker.

    For card draw, you have standard all-star Thraben Inspector for games where you might have to go longer. I also ran a mono-white Human Soldiers build with Mentor of the Meek for card draw. Your only non-soldier cards are Student of Warfare and Gather the Townsfolk, and you can run things like Field Marshal, Precinct Captain, Mentor and Veteran Armorsmith in a soliders build.

    As for reach to close out a game, there aren't great options in white compared to say Red's direct damage and haste. One option is evasion, so cards like Gryff's Boon for recursive flying evasion can help. Otherwise maybe something you can flash in end of turn like an Aven Mindcensor to steal the last few points.

    As a side point, a copy of Eiganjo Castle is free in this deck, and can protect Kytheon and Thalia in the right situation


    I've got also a few questions:
    - Can I level up Student of Warfare the same turn it's casted on the battlefield if I have enough mana?
    Yes, but at sorcery speed (so you cannot do it in response to a removal spell for example)
    - Does Gideon, Battle-Forged get +1/+1 from Honor of the Pure if he's a creature until end of turn?
    Yes, and if you make him a Human before you play a Thalia's Lieutenant, he will get a +1/+1 counter too
    - Does Elspeth's first ability trigger Champ and Thalia's lieutenant ETB effect? I don't think so, but I prefer to make sure about it.
    No, the creature type on the token is Soldier, but it will get a buff from Honor of the Pure as it is white
    - Do tokens from Gather the Townsfolk get +1/+1 from Metallic Mimic (as a human type) and Honor of the Pure?
    Yes and Yes

    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Humans
    I think as others have pointed out it will boil down to how good being able to disrupt artifacts/enchantments/planeswalkers is over just instants and sorceries, and how important the temporary removal is versus exiling it (a definite difference versus Storm and Snapcaster Mage decks).

    The actual creature is less easy to evaluate, 1/2 with flying for 2 mana versus a 2/1 for 3 mana. The evasion is definitely needed if you reasonably expect to attack with the Freebooter without your opponent getting their card back, which ties into a discussion I had with kingcars a while back on this forum about cards such as Reflector Mage and Sin Collector that have ETB effects - if they resolve, then you've gained your advantage, and you are left with a relevant creature type that is helpful to you, but is annoying for your opponent as removing it doesn't gain back the card from Sin Collector or let them instantly replay a bounced creature with Reflector Mage.

    If there is lots of removal then cards like Freebooter seem worse, but they do then force your opponent to spend removal on an otherwise underpowered creature to get their card back, which may buy you enough time to get the win or grow your board out of Anger of the Gods range for example, but this again depends on whether your deck needs to remove instants and sorceries to win, or whether artifacts/enchantments/planeswalkers are worth the (potential) temporary nature of the disruption. First thoughts are that Tron is a matchup where the broader range of targets is helpful to grab O Stone, Planeswalkers and maybe an early Expedition Map.

    As GRP17 said, it's good to have more choices rather than fewer!

    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Humans
    The fact that it is a two turn process puts me off as a graveyard answer, as it will need to survive a turn unless you hit it off a CoCo. Against Dredge, Death's Shadow and Storm sometimes two cards isn't enough to fully disrupt them, I like the panic option of a RiP or Relic to shut down those decks. Definitely more synergy/utility than the other options though.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Humans
    Quote from Wesste »


    Thoughts
    - Need more lifegain main deck. +2 auriok champion -2 Mayor
    - Felt I needed more interaction/utility pieces.... maybe Fiend hunter? Any other suggestions?
    - Manabase is very greedy (especially with Bob)... Any suggestions?
    - Anyone got any thoughts on how to slow down the big mana decks? More Thalia's and ghost quarters?
    - CoCo is a great card, but would aether vial be better?

    I know not many on the thread are going down the Abzan route, but I feel the deck has potential.... just needs a fair bit of tweaking!


    I've tried Dark Confidant, and whilst it is a very powerful card, I feel he makes Burn a worse matchup, and it's not a good one to begin with, as your example shows. Having Sin Collector take one of their damage spells is sort of life gain/damage prevention, and I run 2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation in my sideboard mainly for Storm/non-creature decks, but I bring him in against burn too as he provides a wall for their creatures, forcing them to bolt him, which is "gain 5 life".

    Reflector Mage is the interaction card of choice, guess Fiend Hunter/Banisher Priest is your non-Blue alternative.

    I agree your manabase seems ambitious, most lists run 21 lands. Simple answer would be to add 3 more Caverns, and a basic Plains. Budget wise, you could go for Razorverge Thicket or Concealed Courtyard instead of the Caverns - I only run 2 in my Knightfall Humans with 8 fetches.

    Again, Blue has the easiest answers – Negate and Unified Will – for big decks. In black maybe Brutality or Thoughtseize?

    I personally think CoCo is better, you can end up dumping most of your hand by Turn 4, so an instant speed chance to hit (most likely) 2 Humans to mess up combat maths or disrupt an opponent is better for me than playing extra things from your hand, as you’ve likely played most of them already.

    As Headminerve said, your list seems less explosive than other Humans lists, which increases your need for disruption. You need 4 extra lands, so I'd cut the Bobs and the Recruiter - maybe try a Tireless Tracker or two for card draw with all your fetchlands? I'd look for a way to move the Sin Collectors main board to give you some more hand disruption you can hit off CoCo. Anafenza is a good clock, a second copy might be a good idea. I'd find space for a Kambal or two somewhere in my 75 too.

    FInal thought that I'm still trying to think through for my own deck - is Knight of the Reliquary better than Mirran Crusader in this list? Knight can grow big with the right lands, but pumping a Crusader is a very quick clock if they can't answer it. You're also not running blue for the Reatreat Combo or Red for Kessig Wolf Run, which are good reasons to be running Knight.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Humans
    Quote from Manturras »
    Hi all!

    Long time follower of this fine primer, first time poster.

    Currently playing bant humans, and testing 2x Auriok Champion. Been loving that card in my SB, replaced over 2x crusaders, but seems like that card is nowhere to be seen in other lists. Has anyone give it a go? Burn and shadow decks have a lot of trouble against it. Also, crusader, might jump back in case of a rise of GBx decks


    For me, Auriok Champion is a sort-of answer to burn and presents a problem to black/red/x decks. Personally it's a case of being not quite good enough to bring in for burn matchups over other cards with an instant impact - other people have mentioned Arashin Cleric as an alternative - as they tend to run Path to Exile anyway. Against Death's Shadow I prefer Crusader, it's a better clock , but both give the opponent a massive headache.

    There's no reason to not play it if you expect a lot of burn/death's shadow, but there's not much in my local meta, so I can afford to run Sin Collector and Kambal as sort of answers alongside the Thalias for disruption against Burn, and go grindy with Eternal Witness/RiP against Death's Shadow.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Humans

    In terms of your list, how has running 8 mana dorks and fewer two drops felt?
    Thoughts on Eternal Witness?
    It's also probably difficult to quantify, but have you noticed anything moving from 21 to 22 lands?


    Thanks for the replies, some interesting thoughts. Definitely think the 2 drop problem is one that does impact the Humans list, with the exception of maybe Bant Red, which seems to have the most promising alternatives.

    Agree that 3CMC Thalia is best Turn 2, but I find that she really helps to put us on the front foot against creature decks and most modern landbases, although she does paint a large target on her head, and if she is answered efficiently then you're right - she doesn't do anything.

    I think I heard about the tournament on an SCG stream maybe? I'm glad the tournament is doing well.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Humans
    Hey Humans!


    Main problems:
    Yeah, the lack of Noble Hierarch and Cavern of Souls. I know the cards are crazy good but i am to stingy to pay so much for 7 cards. I convinced myself to buy a Cavern of Souls each month. Maybe I will do the same with the Noble Hierarch. I replace them for now with Birds of Paradise. I like the colorfixing a lot wich allows to play either Reflector Mage or Anafenza, the Foremost. What else should I change in the Main?

    Agreed, they are great cards but expensive. I still need to buy my last two Caverns instead of borrowing them. Hierarch is just a great card unfortunately, Pilgrim is a necessary in the lists but not nearly as good.

    Now some questions:
    In some situations I don't know if it is better to play Thalia, Guardian of Thraben or a 3-Drop (mostly Anafenza, the Foremost). What do you recommend? I am aware that it's always situationally but maybe there is a norm.

    Depends on the matchup and if you have a Collected Company you are hoping to cast turn 3. If you have a hand of creatures then an early Thalia, especially game 1 if you don't know what are playing is probably better to try and trip them up. If they are playing red then Anafenza is great as they will find her hard to remove. Turn 2 Reflector Mage on their mana creature is a very strong play.

    What do you think about Meddling Mage? I am not sure with this card. In wich match-ups is it good and what cards i want to name?

    I name combo pieces - Living End, Ad Nauseum, Ironworks. It's a narrow card that is great for some metas, and poor in others.

    Sin Collector? If yes, how many in the main? Or in the board? In my testing it was one of the worst cards...

    Yes for me, but 2 in the sideboard currently. I had it in my main board over Eternal Witness for GP Birmingham, mainly to try and get extra information about my opponents game 1. Some matches it is worth the mainboard inclusion, especially the 'unfair' combo type decks, but versus creature decks you might miss.

    Is Thalia, Guardian of Thraben that good? Don't get me wrong... I love this card! Sometime she hits super hard but sometimes she does nothing.

    She is not a guaranteed include on the lists here, but I run 2. She can mess up your small amount of spells, but tends to restrict our opponents more I find. Again, maybe dependent on the decks you run into - the more non-creature spells played the better she is. Definitely Bant Black's weakness is a lack of a good 2 drop and evasion compared to Kari Zev, Harsh Mentor, Mantis Rider etc.

    What is your opinion on the Mana Dorks? I saw lists running 6 other 8. Would you run 4x Avacyn's Pilgrim and 2x Birds of Paradise in favor of two more 3-Drops? If so, wich 3-Drops? Please let me know.

    I run 7 - 4 Hierarch and 3 Pilgrim. I'm currently trying 11 1CMC creatures, 10 2CMC and 10 3CMC creatures to have a smoother curve, as I find sometimes that having fewer 2 drops can make your curve out awkward if they remove your mana dork.

    What do you think on "Naya"? I saw this girl playing Naya at the GP in Birmingham. She played Magus of the Moon over Reflector Mage to mess with the opponents manabase. Also another sideboard plan. Is an aggro build like the Blitz version viable in the current meta (with some major tweaks of course)?

    I don't run red in my list, other people here do and the lists look interesting. Reflector Mage is very strong right now though, so I wouldn't want to cut that unless I had good reason.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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