I think you will usually always face one shadow, double shadow should still be an exception. I don't like Engineered explosives against Death Shadow. It takes 3 Mana to remove sometimes one, if you're lucky and able to resolve it maybe 2 Shadows. I think Roast is better in this matchup.
They play their shadows usually as early as possible, oftentimes you find a window to kill a 1/1-5/5 Shadow. And they're playing 6 Delve threats which you cannot kill with EE but with Roast. The best way to beat Shadow, beside SB Plans like Chameleon is fast ramp. Especially Sakura-Tribe Elder and Wood Elves are MVPs. I try to save mine for a turn where it can block and prevent at least 4 damage. After boarding they take out their Fatal Pushes so you don't have to worry about that card.
Another option of course is a Splash for black where you get excellent removal like Fatal Push or Terminate to deal with Shadows.
Have a good recovery Spike! I am still quite new to the deck and have some trouble with getting the right lands off fetches and Farseeks. I've found myself too much fetching and shocking as I am afraid that I will be exactly 1 Mountain short of killing the opponent. (At the same time I am afraid of not having enough Mountains left in the deck if I draw into a Scapeshift late) Is there a rule of thumb how you guys fetch lands? I know that it's better to get Mountains if you're on the Titan plan, and that it is better not to fetch too many if you're on the Scapeshift plan but oftentimes I don't know what I will be doing on Turn 4/5? I think 1 Forest Basic is always fine as you still have 5 Mountains / Valakuts combined when you're playing Titan on 6? But as soon as you have 2 Forest Basics you often cannot kill anything immediately when Titan comes into play. Can someone help me out?
I don't like Ruric Thar in the board. Storm kills you way before you drop Ruric (the earliest) on Turn 4(If you're lucky and they don't remand it...). A single Lightning Bolt would do a better job than Ruric, as they need one of their 8 Cost Reducers to go off. And as they don't expect us to have much interaction they might play them in riskier (on Turn 2 e.g.) spots. Against Control it is fine... If it resolves, which might be a difficult case. If you want a green creature to beat control, take Thrun, the Last Troll
Path is a very strong card and the splash might be worth it, but I'm on Spike4972's side that Black offers you strong removal as well plus some Sideboard options that can help in difficult matchups. (like Slaughter Games against Combo) White offers really good SB options as well like Stony Silence. The problem here is, that I don't think you will reliably cast it on Turn 2, as you only have 1 white Dual in the deck, and after Turn 2 it might be too late, even on the play!
I think white is the best in a Through The Breach Version with Emrakul and Nahiris, altough I prefer the RG(b) Version.
I wanted to ask for player's advice on what card or which 2 cards I can cut for 1-2 Hour of Promise?
I think if you want to play more Hour of Promise, you gotta cut some Mainboard interaction or maybe 1 Pact (as Hour is like a Win Condition on its own). If you want to go up to 2 Hours, I would cut a Relic or Sweltering Suns (Meta Call). On 3 Hours I would cut a Summoners Pact. As Omen is great with Hour, you could even play 3 Omens, if you play 3 Hours. Collins Mullen piloted a "interaction-light" version with 3 Hours, 3 Omens and 4 Khalni Heart Expedition to a what looks like nice finish at the SCG Tour this weekend. He might still be alive for Top 8, I don't know. Here's the link to the deck tech on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_357x1gG9g&t=0s
Hey guys:) I know this deck well from the Standard days and as I own many of the pieces I think about picking it up as my main "combo deck". I've been reading this thread for a while and it helped me figuring the deck out.
At my last tournament I've seen some players running the deck and the match vs UW Control was extremely close and interesting to watch. Can you guys tell me from experience if this matchup against UW is usually favorable or what makes the match up better in your opinion? They have many cards that interact with lands in Spreading Seas, Tec Edge and Ghost Quarters plus Counters. On the paper it doesn't seem favorable, can you tell me from different experiences? Thanks in advance:)
Did the experience also do anything for your sideboard ideas? Any changes you would make now?
Not really, I mean I only played 5 additional matches. Of course now the 3 Stony Silence, Rest in Peace's weren't really used and I wished I had one more Fulminator or Surgical Extraction in the deck but it's always easy to say that after a tournament. Maybe Leyline of Sanctity is a card for us? You could cut the 2 Knight of Glory for it and maybe the Fatal Push plus the Collective Brutality. It is good against G/R Valakut, Discard from various decks and of course multiple combo decks. Against Storm it shuts off Grape Shot as a Win condition and they have to go full on the Empty the Warrens plan. Ad Nauseam needs Sideboard cards and more Mana to go off or they need to go for the Laboratory Maniac Combo. And of course it completely hazes Burn. Maybe it's worth a try, I don't know. I was quite happy with the deck though. Maybe just a 5th Turn 1 discard effect in the side would be fine. Another Thoughtseize for example. This is the most likely change I'm going to make.
Polymorph I read the Blog article. Nice written, pretty aggressively you're right. While you're absolutely correct pointing out the decks weaknesses and bad spots, I definitely don't agree that for example Lingering Souls is a bad card right now. In fact I think it is very good right now. Of course it is weak against Eldrazi and Tron but this Matchup is generally bad. Against Death Shadow, Affinity and other Aggro decks and fair Midrangy style decks it is a house. I will still play Sculler over Reshaper as it fits the decks discard plan nicer. It makes exactly these matchups better you are complaining to be very bad. And I really don't have trouble casting him on turn 2, and I think I'm playing many Utility lands with 2 Mutavaults, 2 Shambling Vents and 2 Ghost Quarters. Of course this is my opinion and I respect yours and I thank you for writing the article. Hope you have success with your Vengevine deck:)
I've got a tournament report to make. Yesterday I went to a big 44 player tournament and finished 4-1-1 and didn't make it into Top 8 by the smallest margin possible.
Yes I'm the player in 9th place and my tiebreakers were exactly tied with the 8th ranked player. I don't know how the program decided who makes the cut, and quite frankly I don't really wanna know. The judges couldn't give me an answer. On Reddit some people wrote about this topic and apparantly it breaks this tie by the order the players were registered, which would be extremely frustrating as there were some things on the line for me.
Enough about this and let's get to the matches. I played the same list as I did online except putting in 2 Ghost Quarter for a Mutavault and Cavern and playing two Fulminator Mage in the side instead of Knight of Glory. As the Meta is quite Tron and Valakut heavy I wanted to be prepared to fight those strategies.
Round 1 Win against GB Infect: Infect seems to be a very good matchup for us, sadly doesn't see much play anymore. Game 1, I went Sculler into Strangler to kill his Plague Stinger which was putting me far ahead. I could also immeadiately answer his second creature. Game 2, I mulliganed because I didn't have a way to kill a creature. I pushed his only creature on the first turn, then went Sculler into Sculler into Thought-Knot Seer leaving my opponent empty-handed. Easy 2-0 win. Round 2 Win against G/W Hatebears: He kept a one lander with Aether Vial. After he flashed Leonin Arbiter in, I played Ghost Quarter on my next turn killing his only land and pathed his next guy putting me far ahead. Eldarzi Displacer dealt with two 3/3 Golem tokens and we went to game 2. On Game 2 I punted, as i chose to discard his Restoration Angel instead of Blade Splicer, while not having a Displacer to deal with the tokens. He blinked the Splicer with Flickerwisp and I died to Golem Token beatdown. Game 3 he mulliganed to 5 and I just beat him to death with 2 Lingering Souls and 8 flying Spirits. Round 3 Lost against G/R Valakut: This match was over fast. I didn't know what I'm up against and kept two Wasteland Stranglers with no Discard. I had no interaction at all and died basically on turn 4. Game 2 I mulliganed to 5 as I didn't draw any Sideboard card and Discard. I discarded his only threat and he topdecked the Primeval Titan exactly in the right window. Having no path I died on the following turn. Round 4 Win against G/R Valakut: I've had the chance to play against this deck another time. Game 1 basically the same happened as in Game 1 before. I kept a creature fight land with no path and died on turn 4. Game 2 he mulliganed to 6 and kept a 6 lander and I just beat him down. I had a path to deal with his only Titan. Game 3 we both mulliganed and I kept two discard + a path and Lingering Souls. I put him into topdecking mode, and beat down with Lingering Souls. Eventually I topdecked smasher for exactly lethal. Seems like a unfavorable but definitely not unwinnable matchup. With 2-3 discard effects you're pretty well set up to fight the deck. I didn't even draw the Fulminator/Ghost Quarter + Surgical Extraction combo, which would just pretty much be game. Round 5 Win against W/B Smallpox: He kept a midrange hand with 2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Inquisition of Kozilek. He was planning his turns expecting Smasher on turn 5. I topdecked an Eldrazi Temple though and played Smasher on Turn 4 killing his first Sorin. This was the breaking point, as I answered the second Sorin with Double Lingering Souls. Game 2 he smallpoxed me having Eldrazi Temple and a B/W Dualland in play. I only had a Fetid Heath in hand and so I had to decide between Colorscrew or sacrificing Eldrazi Temple. I sacrificed Eldrazi Temple and did never recover. Game 3 he mulliganed and I had 3 Discard spells. Lingering Souls and Eldrazi Displacer dealt with Sorin and his tokens and I went up to 4-1. Round 6 Draw against Grixis Fairies Control. I knew what my opponent was playing. I was in 8th place, second last player with 12 match points and to make Top 8 I could basically decide if I want to play and be forced to win against Grixis Fairies Control (which I would grade as a bad matchup. Many counters, Terminates, and of course many 1/1 flying bodies I am not well suited dealing with.), or draw and hope that the 9th placed player would lose his match. I decided to draw, which unluckily was the wrong choice afterwards as the 9th ranked player won and I was cut out of Top 8. I wish I would have played that last round, but in the end it's always easier to say that after you've seen the scoreboard after 6 rounds:P Disappointing finish but otherwise a great day and experience with the deck. And if I or any of my opponents won one more game I could maybe report how I got even higher placed:)
Final conclusion: Apart from round 1 I wasn't even playing against my very good matchups (Affinity, Burn, Death Shadow etc.) one time. I was paired against some difficult matchups and still managed to go 4-1-1 which tells, that with this deck you can have a chance against basically any matchup, which is one of the big advantages of this deck.
I've learned my lesson and in the future I will probably just play that last round, even though the matchup was probably bad. It feels so miserable if you don't have your fate in your own hands and I will try to avoid that in the future.
And finally, the B/W Smallpox deck made Top 8 as well and it was super sweet. Many of the B/W cards I love the most in our deck are also played in theirs and I think I will definitely try it out one time. That's all, I hope to move to the final 8 players next time:)
MVP of the day: Lingering Souls
It's true that Tendrils doesn't kill everything. I think it hits almost every important creature in Coco though, at least all parts of the combo. Resolving it against Elves before they have two lords is essential. If you want to play a hard wipe, I would play Damnation. I'm not a fan of Bontus last Reckoning at all. The not untap thing is pretty relevant.
I will stick with Tendrils I guess. The -2-2 is an advantage as it is a one sided board wipe sometimes. It doesn't kill our Eldrazi. I think the most important thing using Tendrils against e.g. Elves, Merfolk, Coco and other stuff is not to act greedy with it. I'll play it as soon as I can get a 2 for 1 out of it. Even killing some dorks against Coco or killing a heritage druid and Mana elf is more than enough to gain huge tempo.
Of course, Displacer is in my main because he is good in basically any creature matchup and with TKS and Sculler sometimes even against combo.
Firstly it's a 3/3 creature you can play on turn 2 with Eldrazi Temple. Just that on it's own is very good.
You can apply pressure in the early game(without the ability being to relevant). You said you have better uses for your 3 mana, that's perfectly fine, do that! Displacers ability is there to use, when you have nothing better to do with your mana. It's good in the early and a long stalled grindy game.
Where Displacer has been good for me, it has won me the game several times: 1) against Death shadow I was on 3 life and had a knight of glory and displacer out. Combined with the discard I manage to control the whole game and deal with a gurmag angler and 7-12 power DS.
2) Against Mono white Death&Taxes and other random tokens(Voice for example), it is an all star. You blink their tokens and they're gone.
3) Against Jund I managed to play it and blink Wasteland Strangler 3 times to kill a Goyf + Kalitas.
4) I haven't got to do that yet but he's also great with Thoughtknots to control their draw step. He's also very good with Tidehollow sculler if you already processed the card exiled with it or it's an irrelevant card meanwhile.
5) As long as you have mana open, he acts like a spellskite, they have to kill him first even if they're threatened by a Smasher. If you're lucky enough to have both out it is game over.
6) Clear the way in a stalled game. Imagine you have 2 temples and 5 lands, the opponent has 6 creatures. They can't really attack you as you just block and blink in response. At the end of their turn you blink three blockers and on your first main phase you blink another 3, GG.
You will find other random situations where this card is just great. Opponent Spell quellers your Thought Knot Seer? No problem, blinking the spell queller they can't stack the abilities to counter your TKS again. Against Affinity they couldn't attack as I would always just blink the creature equipped with plating. It's also amazing to reset couters given by ravager.
Against Eldrazi Tron I flickered their Hangarback Walker, oh no it's a 0/0? Dead.
I could talk even longer but I will just recommend to play two^^
And two relics is enough like 80% of the time. Sometimes you have to play your TKS first but it usually doesn't matter. Worst case scenario you have a 3/2 creature. But when I have enough creatures i like to hold them.
I'm running Sorin right now to test him. I don't have enough experience to say how good it is.
If you're playing the 4 mainboard Relic's and maybe even some copies of Rest in Peace in the sideboard, I think you're in a good position (favored/like 55-60 percent I guess). Discard is only good to get their cascade effects, otherwise it's weak. I've played against it once the last 30 online matches and got crushed 0-2. But firstly, I play 2 relics mainboard, and I kept a very bad Game 1 hand against them (no Relics, 2 Fatal pushes, no discard) and in Game 2 I mulled to 5 until I had a good interactive hand and got mana screwed, they finished me with fulminator mages.
That's something I wanted to mention, I think we can be mana disrupted pretty easily. U/W control basically locked me out of the game with 1 Ghost Quarter and 2 Spreading Seas each game. I am not a fan of one Wastes though as it uses another slot we could use for Mutavaults.
Thanks for the write-up and glad to see the results. I am still getting used to playing midrange after a very long spell playing aggro decks. Some reflections.... I used Fragmentize but ultimately shifted over to Disenchant because I was seeing a lot of Chalice of the Void and wanted to keep out of the 1-drop slot while also gaining instant speed. Not seeing Chalice so much anymore, but not sure if the mana trade-off is worth it. I tried Gideon, Sorin, Kalitas and ultimately abandoned for reasons set out earlier. But Sorin was the best of them for me. Seemed more controlish which ultimately was where I didn't want to be. Otherwise I agree with all your other choices, though I have been trying out Worship. Still more testing to see if its worth it. Finally, toying with idea of Auriok Champion in pace of Knight of Glory as get benefit against red decks too and some lifegain.
I've only played Merfolk and Bant Eldrazi before, so I am not very experienced either. Practice makes perfect;) Of course Disenchant is better against Chalice. But in the last 30 matches, I've seen 1 Chalice on 1 resolved against me, and I won anyways. I really like the mana efficiency of Fragmentize, I guess you can choose either one. I've played one league (3-2, losing to UW Control and 8 Rack, which seems unwinnable) with Sorin in the SB but I never drew it when I've brought it in. So I will do another one with him. He would have been good topdecks against Burn and Affinity though.
I've played a copy of Worship in Bant Eldrazi, it was really good there. Here I am not 100% sure if the creature count is high enough and against what I want to bring it in. It doesn't really make our bad matchups better so I think I'll pass.
Auriok Champion is sweet but not reliably castable on turn 2, not in a "3-colored" deck without fetching. And if we can cast it we probably have to shock or pain ourselves and that isn't worth it. Against DS it isn't a fast clock like Knight, so I can't imagine he's very good. Do you have some experience with it?
I run one copy of Sin Collector against Burn and any kind of combo and am really liking it.
Sin Collector is like a worse Thought-Knot Seer against those decks, so it does its job. I don't like it that much against Burn. I feel like you win the game against Burn if you can curve out really well. Ideally Turn 1 discard / removal, turn 2 collective Brutality / Tidehollow, turn 3 Thought knot / wasteland strangler -3/-3 their eidolon. I don't like that it competes against Thought-Knot Seer for the 3 CMC slot. On the draw it gets even worse. If you want to beat burn, just play 1 more Collective Brutality in the Sideboard, the more the better. I've yet to lose to Burn (standing 4-0 in matches). Against combo I like it, but I bring in Collective Brutality against those as well. Against Counters Company it is even better than Sin Sollector.
I think Sin Collector belongs to Company decks, but that's just my opinion:)
Thanks for the write ups Reymon27 and congrats on the consistent results. Could you give some ideas about your sideboarding? I am also interested about how you feel using Gideon. I tried him before and felt he was best against fair decks which are already favorable matches for us. What matchups do you bring Kalitas in for?
Thanks Jim, at the moment, I am switching my sideboard almost every league as I want to try out what is best. I've just scored my second 5-0 league a few hours ago with the following sideboard: 1 Fragmentize (Cheap and kills almost every artifact and enchantment) 2 Knight of Glory (Obviously great vs. DS and pushes the matchup to "very favorable", I also brought it in against Burn and Dredge as it is better than some mainboard cards) 2 Rest in Peace (Graveyard hate number 3 and 4, this is definitely enough, I don't miss having 4 Relics, I usually take out 1-2 Lingering Souls if I bring this in except vs. DS) 2 Stony Silence (Another two "oops I win" cards against Affinity. It is especially strong in this build as they can't really win against us, even if they have the "Signal Pest" draw, as we have lingering souls and much single spot removal. Also good against the Tron decks. I also brought it in against D&T that played Smuggler's Copter and Aether Vial) 2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar (I brought it in against blue control decks and regular Jund but I am not convinced yet that he is really needed. It's true that he is best against fair decks. Except U/W control I already feel good about these matchups. In the next league I will maybe try Sorin (Thanks laoshun, Sorin looks great, especially with Lingering Souls!) or Gideon of the Trials) 2 Surgical Extraction (I will also definitely keep this slot, card is great with all the discard against combo decks and graveyard interactive decks. If I can I also just use it as a second discard spell in Turn 1 if they hold a second copy of a card in hand.) 1 Fatal Push (3 in the Mainboard is to much, as it doesn't kill everything and we have a hard time turning the revolt on. So the 3rd one is in the side. Comes in against cheap creature decks.) 1 Collective Brutality (2 in the main, now another one in the side. Just to push the Counters Company matchup and wreck Burn some more.) 2 Flaying Tendrils (First time trying this out and I'll keep it. I've had trouble against go wide strategies and this is the answer. The last league, it was great against Mono White D&T, Tooth and Nail (Killing 2-3 dorks every time) and Merfolk (as we have the tools to keep the lords under control.)
I'm definitely sketchy about Gideon and will try out different walkers in his place. I've decided to cut the one Kalitas. GP Kobe winner had 3 in his side and it was kind of a Sideboard plan against all creature/grindy matchups. He took out Reality Smashers for them and played the long game. I think with only 1 copy in my Side, this strategy isn't very viable and it doesn't impact too much. I would bring it in against almost every creature deck and matchups where the grave hate is viable. Burn, Affinity, Death Shadow, Dredge, Death and Taxes etc.
Deck feels really good right now. The meta seems perfect for it. I've played against almost everything and the win rate lies at 84% at the moment.
For the additional land I've cut the Dismember which wasn't really good the past leagues.
I've only lost to UW/Control and Living End (No Graveyard hate drawn and Mana Screw). Beating Affinity twice, Burn, Mill, Jund DS, Grixis DS, Titanshift and U/R Storm.
This feels much closer to the ideal Mana Base to me than before. I'm thinking about exchanging the SGW for another Mutavault, they were great. I didn't miss the Caverns too much, though I would have liked some more copies against U/W obviously.
Thanks a lot for the quick answer:)
It's been a while since I've been playing paper tournaments there, but the last times I've been there, I've probably played 2 matches against Tron (never Eldrazi Tron) 3 times in a row. I will play again next Saturday (With W/B Processor this time) and look if and how the meta has changed. (The matchup against Tron is about equally bad) If regular Tron is still a thing, I think with 2-3 Stony Silence, Fulminators, Surgicals in the SB you can maybe turn it at least 50/50 after Sideboard, but I don't know if it is worth it. Stony Silence is also good against Affinity and Lantern, Surgical against many decks and Fulminator against Valakut, so maybe it's worth a try:) If I would go to a GP or be playing online, I wouldn't worry about this 1 bad matchup and just accept it.
Davemo88, may I ask you two questions about the deck? I am playing B/W Eldrazi Processor at the moment and as this deck plays many of the cards I love the most in B/W, I am also interested in playing this one.
1) Why are you choosing Elspeth in the 4CMC Planeswalker Slot over Gideons (Ally and trials) or for example Kalitas? Why is it so good? Would you play it without the Mirran Crusaders in the list?
2) If my meta is very Tron(regular Tron) heavy. How would your Manabase look if you want to specifically include Mainboard Ghost Quarters, but still some Manlands?
Would be glad to read your answer:)
They play their shadows usually as early as possible, oftentimes you find a window to kill a 1/1-5/5 Shadow. And they're playing 6 Delve threats which you cannot kill with EE but with Roast. The best way to beat Shadow, beside SB Plans like Chameleon is fast ramp. Especially Sakura-Tribe Elder and Wood Elves are MVPs. I try to save mine for a turn where it can block and prevent at least 4 damage. After boarding they take out their Fatal Pushes so you don't have to worry about that card.
Another option of course is a Splash for black where you get excellent removal like Fatal Push or Terminate to deal with Shadows.
I don't like Ruric Thar in the board. Storm kills you way before you drop Ruric (the earliest) on Turn 4(If you're lucky and they don't remand it...). A single Lightning Bolt would do a better job than Ruric, as they need one of their 8 Cost Reducers to go off. And as they don't expect us to have much interaction they might play them in riskier (on Turn 2 e.g.) spots. Against Control it is fine... If it resolves, which might be a difficult case. If you want a green creature to beat control, take Thrun, the Last Troll
Path is a very strong card and the splash might be worth it, but I'm on Spike4972's side that Black offers you strong removal as well plus some Sideboard options that can help in difficult matchups. (like Slaughter Games against Combo) White offers really good SB options as well like Stony Silence. The problem here is, that I don't think you will reliably cast it on Turn 2, as you only have 1 white Dual in the deck, and after Turn 2 it might be too late, even on the play!
I think white is the best in a Through The Breach Version with Emrakul and Nahiris, altough I prefer the RG(b) Version.
I think if you want to play more Hour of Promise, you gotta cut some Mainboard interaction or maybe 1 Pact (as Hour is like a Win Condition on its own). If you want to go up to 2 Hours, I would cut a Relic or Sweltering Suns (Meta Call). On 3 Hours I would cut a Summoners Pact. As Omen is great with Hour, you could even play 3 Omens, if you play 3 Hours. Collins Mullen piloted a "interaction-light" version with 3 Hours, 3 Omens and 4 Khalni Heart Expedition to a what looks like nice finish at the SCG Tour this weekend. He might still be alive for Top 8, I don't know. Here's the link to the deck tech on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_357x1gG9g&t=0s
I've read above that someone got both their Wooded Foothills and Windswept Heath exiled with Surgical Extraction. Couldn't this be prevented by not playing a full playset of Windswept Heath and playing 1 Verdant Catacombs and 1 Misty Rainforest in the spot of 2 Windswept Heath?
At my last tournament I've seen some players running the deck and the match vs UW Control was extremely close and interesting to watch. Can you guys tell me from experience if this matchup against UW is usually favorable or what makes the match up better in your opinion? They have many cards that interact with lands in Spreading Seas, Tec Edge and Ghost Quarters plus Counters. On the paper it doesn't seem favorable, can you tell me from different experiences? Thanks in advance:)
Not really, I mean I only played 5 additional matches. Of course now the 3 Stony Silence, Rest in Peace's weren't really used and I wished I had one more Fulminator or Surgical Extraction in the deck but it's always easy to say that after a tournament. Maybe Leyline of Sanctity is a card for us? You could cut the 2 Knight of Glory for it and maybe the Fatal Push plus the Collective Brutality. It is good against G/R Valakut, Discard from various decks and of course multiple combo decks. Against Storm it shuts off Grape Shot as a Win condition and they have to go full on the Empty the Warrens plan. Ad Nauseam needs Sideboard cards and more Mana to go off or they need to go for the Laboratory Maniac Combo. And of course it completely hazes Burn. Maybe it's worth a try, I don't know. I was quite happy with the deck though. Maybe just a 5th Turn 1 discard effect in the side would be fine. Another Thoughtseize for example. This is the most likely change I'm going to make.
Polymorph I read the Blog article. Nice written, pretty aggressively you're right. While you're absolutely correct pointing out the decks weaknesses and bad spots, I definitely don't agree that for example Lingering Souls is a bad card right now. In fact I think it is very good right now. Of course it is weak against Eldrazi and Tron but this Matchup is generally bad. Against Death Shadow, Affinity and other Aggro decks and fair Midrangy style decks it is a house. I will still play Sculler over Reshaper as it fits the decks discard plan nicer. It makes exactly these matchups better you are complaining to be very bad. And I really don't have trouble casting him on turn 2, and I think I'm playing many Utility lands with 2 Mutavaults, 2 Shambling Vents and 2 Ghost Quarters. Of course this is my opinion and I respect yours and I thank you for writing the article. Hope you have success with your Vengevine deck:)
Yes I'm the player in 9th place and my tiebreakers were exactly tied with the 8th ranked player. I don't know how the program decided who makes the cut, and quite frankly I don't really wanna know. The judges couldn't give me an answer. On Reddit some people wrote about this topic and apparantly it breaks this tie by the order the players were registered, which would be extremely frustrating as there were some things on the line for me.
Enough about this and let's get to the matches. I played the same list as I did online except putting in 2 Ghost Quarter for a Mutavault and Cavern and playing two Fulminator Mage in the side instead of Knight of Glory. As the Meta is quite Tron and Valakut heavy I wanted to be prepared to fight those strategies.
Round 1 Win against GB Infect: Infect seems to be a very good matchup for us, sadly doesn't see much play anymore. Game 1, I went Sculler into Strangler to kill his Plague Stinger which was putting me far ahead. I could also immeadiately answer his second creature. Game 2, I mulliganed because I didn't have a way to kill a creature. I pushed his only creature on the first turn, then went Sculler into Sculler into Thought-Knot Seer leaving my opponent empty-handed. Easy 2-0 win.
Round 2 Win against G/W Hatebears: He kept a one lander with Aether Vial. After he flashed Leonin Arbiter in, I played Ghost Quarter on my next turn killing his only land and pathed his next guy putting me far ahead. Eldarzi Displacer dealt with two 3/3 Golem tokens and we went to game 2. On Game 2 I punted, as i chose to discard his Restoration Angel instead of Blade Splicer, while not having a Displacer to deal with the tokens. He blinked the Splicer with Flickerwisp and I died to Golem Token beatdown. Game 3 he mulliganed to 5 and I just beat him to death with 2 Lingering Souls and 8 flying Spirits.
Round 3 Lost against G/R Valakut: This match was over fast. I didn't know what I'm up against and kept two Wasteland Stranglers with no Discard. I had no interaction at all and died basically on turn 4. Game 2 I mulliganed to 5 as I didn't draw any Sideboard card and Discard. I discarded his only threat and he topdecked the Primeval Titan exactly in the right window. Having no path I died on the following turn.
Round 4 Win against G/R Valakut: I've had the chance to play against this deck another time. Game 1 basically the same happened as in Game 1 before. I kept a creature fight land with no path and died on turn 4. Game 2 he mulliganed to 6 and kept a 6 lander and I just beat him down. I had a path to deal with his only Titan. Game 3 we both mulliganed and I kept two discard + a path and Lingering Souls. I put him into topdecking mode, and beat down with Lingering Souls. Eventually I topdecked smasher for exactly lethal. Seems like a unfavorable but definitely not unwinnable matchup. With 2-3 discard effects you're pretty well set up to fight the deck. I didn't even draw the Fulminator/Ghost Quarter + Surgical Extraction combo, which would just pretty much be game.
Round 5 Win against W/B Smallpox: He kept a midrange hand with 2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Inquisition of Kozilek. He was planning his turns expecting Smasher on turn 5. I topdecked an Eldrazi Temple though and played Smasher on Turn 4 killing his first Sorin. This was the breaking point, as I answered the second Sorin with Double Lingering Souls. Game 2 he smallpoxed me having Eldrazi Temple and a B/W Dualland in play. I only had a Fetid Heath in hand and so I had to decide between Colorscrew or sacrificing Eldrazi Temple. I sacrificed Eldrazi Temple and did never recover. Game 3 he mulliganed and I had 3 Discard spells. Lingering Souls and Eldrazi Displacer dealt with Sorin and his tokens and I went up to 4-1.
Round 6 Draw against Grixis Fairies Control. I knew what my opponent was playing. I was in 8th place, second last player with 12 match points and to make Top 8 I could basically decide if I want to play and be forced to win against Grixis Fairies Control (which I would grade as a bad matchup. Many counters, Terminates, and of course many 1/1 flying bodies I am not well suited dealing with.), or draw and hope that the 9th placed player would lose his match. I decided to draw, which unluckily was the wrong choice afterwards as the 9th ranked player won and I was cut out of Top 8. I wish I would have played that last round, but in the end it's always easier to say that after you've seen the scoreboard after 6 rounds:P Disappointing finish but otherwise a great day and experience with the deck. And if I or any of my opponents won one more game I could maybe report how I got even higher placed:)
Final conclusion: Apart from round 1 I wasn't even playing against my very good matchups (Affinity, Burn, Death Shadow etc.) one time. I was paired against some difficult matchups and still managed to go 4-1-1 which tells, that with this deck you can have a chance against basically any matchup, which is one of the big advantages of this deck.
I've learned my lesson and in the future I will probably just play that last round, even though the matchup was probably bad. It feels so miserable if you don't have your fate in your own hands and I will try to avoid that in the future.
And finally, the B/W Smallpox deck made Top 8 as well and it was super sweet. Many of the B/W cards I love the most in our deck are also played in theirs and I think I will definitely try it out one time. That's all, I hope to move to the final 8 players next time:)
MVP of the day: Lingering Souls
I will stick with Tendrils I guess. The -2-2 is an advantage as it is a one sided board wipe sometimes. It doesn't kill our Eldrazi. I think the most important thing using Tendrils against e.g. Elves, Merfolk, Coco and other stuff is not to act greedy with it. I'll play it as soon as I can get a 2 for 1 out of it. Even killing some dorks against Coco or killing a heritage druid and Mana elf is more than enough to gain huge tempo.
Firstly it's a 3/3 creature you can play on turn 2 with Eldrazi Temple. Just that on it's own is very good.
You can apply pressure in the early game(without the ability being to relevant). You said you have better uses for your 3 mana, that's perfectly fine, do that! Displacers ability is there to use, when you have nothing better to do with your mana. It's good in the early and a long stalled grindy game.
Where Displacer has been good for me, it has won me the game several times: 1) against Death shadow I was on 3 life and had a knight of glory and displacer out. Combined with the discard I manage to control the whole game and deal with a gurmag angler and 7-12 power DS.
2) Against Mono white Death&Taxes and other random tokens(Voice for example), it is an all star. You blink their tokens and they're gone.
3) Against Jund I managed to play it and blink Wasteland Strangler 3 times to kill a Goyf + Kalitas.
4) I haven't got to do that yet but he's also great with Thoughtknots to control their draw step. He's also very good with Tidehollow sculler if you already processed the card exiled with it or it's an irrelevant card meanwhile.
5) As long as you have mana open, he acts like a spellskite, they have to kill him first even if they're threatened by a Smasher. If you're lucky enough to have both out it is game over.
6) Clear the way in a stalled game. Imagine you have 2 temples and 5 lands, the opponent has 6 creatures. They can't really attack you as you just block and blink in response. At the end of their turn you blink three blockers and on your first main phase you blink another 3, GG.
You will find other random situations where this card is just great. Opponent Spell quellers your Thought Knot Seer? No problem, blinking the spell queller they can't stack the abilities to counter your TKS again. Against Affinity they couldn't attack as I would always just blink the creature equipped with plating. It's also amazing to reset couters given by ravager.
Against Eldrazi Tron I flickered their Hangarback Walker, oh no it's a 0/0? Dead.
I could talk even longer but I will just recommend to play two^^
And two relics is enough like 80% of the time. Sometimes you have to play your TKS first but it usually doesn't matter. Worst case scenario you have a 3/2 creature. But when I have enough creatures i like to hold them.
If you're playing the 4 mainboard Relic's and maybe even some copies of Rest in Peace in the sideboard, I think you're in a good position (favored/like 55-60 percent I guess). Discard is only good to get their cascade effects, otherwise it's weak. I've played against it once the last 30 online matches and got crushed 0-2. But firstly, I play 2 relics mainboard, and I kept a very bad Game 1 hand against them (no Relics, 2 Fatal pushes, no discard) and in Game 2 I mulled to 5 until I had a good interactive hand and got mana screwed, they finished me with fulminator mages.
That's something I wanted to mention, I think we can be mana disrupted pretty easily. U/W control basically locked me out of the game with 1 Ghost Quarter and 2 Spreading Seas each game. I am not a fan of one Wastes though as it uses another slot we could use for Mutavaults.
I've only played Merfolk and Bant Eldrazi before, so I am not very experienced either. Practice makes perfect;) Of course Disenchant is better against Chalice. But in the last 30 matches, I've seen 1 Chalice on 1 resolved against me, and I won anyways. I really like the mana efficiency of Fragmentize, I guess you can choose either one. I've played one league (3-2, losing to UW Control and 8 Rack, which seems unwinnable) with Sorin in the SB but I never drew it when I've brought it in. So I will do another one with him. He would have been good topdecks against Burn and Affinity though.
I've played a copy of Worship in Bant Eldrazi, it was really good there. Here I am not 100% sure if the creature count is high enough and against what I want to bring it in. It doesn't really make our bad matchups better so I think I'll pass.
Auriok Champion is sweet but not reliably castable on turn 2, not in a "3-colored" deck without fetching. And if we can cast it we probably have to shock or pain ourselves and that isn't worth it. Against DS it isn't a fast clock like Knight, so I can't imagine he's very good. Do you have some experience with it?
Sin Collector is like a worse Thought-Knot Seer against those decks, so it does its job. I don't like it that much against Burn. I feel like you win the game against Burn if you can curve out really well. Ideally Turn 1 discard / removal, turn 2 collective Brutality / Tidehollow, turn 3 Thought knot / wasteland strangler -3/-3 their eidolon. I don't like that it competes against Thought-Knot Seer for the 3 CMC slot. On the draw it gets even worse. If you want to beat burn, just play 1 more Collective Brutality in the Sideboard, the more the better. I've yet to lose to Burn (standing 4-0 in matches). Against combo I like it, but I bring in Collective Brutality against those as well. Against Counters Company it is even better than Sin Sollector.
I think Sin Collector belongs to Company decks, but that's just my opinion:)
Thanks Jim, at the moment, I am switching my sideboard almost every league as I want to try out what is best. I've just scored my second 5-0 league a few hours ago with the following sideboard:
1 Fragmentize (Cheap and kills almost every artifact and enchantment)
2 Knight of Glory (Obviously great vs. DS and pushes the matchup to "very favorable", I also brought it in against Burn and Dredge as it is better than some mainboard cards)
2 Rest in Peace (Graveyard hate number 3 and 4, this is definitely enough, I don't miss having 4 Relics, I usually take out 1-2 Lingering Souls if I bring this in except vs. DS)
2 Stony Silence (Another two "oops I win" cards against Affinity. It is especially strong in this build as they can't really win against us, even if they have the "Signal Pest" draw, as we have lingering souls and much single spot removal. Also good against the Tron decks. I also brought it in against D&T that played Smuggler's Copter and Aether Vial)
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar (I brought it in against blue control decks and regular Jund but I am not convinced yet that he is really needed. It's true that he is best against fair decks. Except U/W control I already feel good about these matchups. In the next league I will maybe try Sorin (Thanks laoshun, Sorin looks great, especially with Lingering Souls!) or Gideon of the Trials)
2 Surgical Extraction (I will also definitely keep this slot, card is great with all the discard against combo decks and graveyard interactive decks. If I can I also just use it as a second discard spell in Turn 1 if they hold a second copy of a card in hand.)
1 Fatal Push (3 in the Mainboard is to much, as it doesn't kill everything and we have a hard time turning the revolt on. So the 3rd one is in the side. Comes in against cheap creature decks.)
1 Collective Brutality (2 in the main, now another one in the side. Just to push the Counters Company matchup and wreck Burn some more.)
2 Flaying Tendrils (First time trying this out and I'll keep it. I've had trouble against go wide strategies and this is the answer. The last league, it was great against Mono White D&T, Tooth and Nail (Killing 2-3 dorks every time) and Merfolk (as we have the tools to keep the lords under control.)
I'm definitely sketchy about Gideon and will try out different walkers in his place. I've decided to cut the one Kalitas. GP Kobe winner had 3 in his side and it was kind of a Sideboard plan against all creature/grindy matchups. He took out Reality Smashers for them and played the long game. I think with only 1 copy in my Side, this strategy isn't very viable and it doesn't impact too much. I would bring it in against almost every creature deck and matchups where the grave hate is viable. Burn, Affinity, Death Shadow, Dredge, Death and Taxes etc.
Deck feels really good right now. The meta seems perfect for it. I've played against almost everything and the win rate lies at 84% at the moment.
Lands 24
For the additional land I've cut the Dismember which wasn't really good the past leagues.
I've only lost to UW/Control and Living End (No Graveyard hate drawn and Mana Screw). Beating Affinity twice, Burn, Mill, Jund DS, Grixis DS, Titanshift and U/R Storm.
This feels much closer to the ideal Mana Base to me than before. I'm thinking about exchanging the SGW for another Mutavault, they were great. I didn't miss the Caverns too much, though I would have liked some more copies against U/W obviously.
It's been a while since I've been playing paper tournaments there, but the last times I've been there, I've probably played 2 matches against Tron (never Eldrazi Tron) 3 times in a row. I will play again next Saturday (With W/B Processor this time) and look if and how the meta has changed. (The matchup against Tron is about equally bad) If regular Tron is still a thing, I think with 2-3 Stony Silence, Fulminators, Surgicals in the SB you can maybe turn it at least 50/50 after Sideboard, but I don't know if it is worth it. Stony Silence is also good against Affinity and Lantern, Surgical against many decks and Fulminator against Valakut, so maybe it's worth a try:) If I would go to a GP or be playing online, I wouldn't worry about this 1 bad matchup and just accept it.
1) Why are you choosing Elspeth in the 4CMC Planeswalker Slot over Gideons (Ally and trials) or for example Kalitas? Why is it so good? Would you play it without the Mirran Crusaders in the list?
2) If my meta is very Tron(regular Tron) heavy. How would your Manabase look if you want to specifically include Mainboard Ghost Quarters, but still some Manlands?
Would be glad to read your answer:)