I would like to play a UR Delver deck in Modern. Could you give a version of deck that is good to start playing with? I am also wondering if this deck is well positioned in the Modern metagame nowadays?
Thanks in advance for help
Lately, there have been some cool 5-0 lists online, and I have been winning some FNM's recently with them.
AspiringSpike (which I think is the creator of the list) has a video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKaLEG0aYdo
The good thing is that the counterspells suffered a great upgrade from Horizons and Eldraine. Achrmage's Charm is a beast, Deprive is actually a very good card, and even better paired with Mystic Sanctuary, Magmatic Sinkhole is a nice upgrade of Flame Slash, and Force of Negation is a game-changer.
The deck is mildly-placed in the meta. There are very good matchups (Vizier-druid, Tron, Storm), but some of the Tier 1 are pretty difficult (Jund, Death Shadow, Burn, Eldratron). However, the good news is that now we have better chances against them, even if they are still hard (I have been winning against burn like 45% of the time). You have little insta-lose matchups now (Auras being the only I can think of)
Thing to consider: the deck is expensive. Force of negation can be replaced (I have been playing instead with Sphinx of Foresight, a surprisingly good card), but Snapcaster Mage is a must (and the manabase is not trivial, too). Besides, the deck is tricky to play, and if you are not used to tempo decks you can have a rough onboarding.
Minding that, if you are still interested and can afford it, I absolutely recommend it: It's an incredibly fun and skill-rewarding deck.
Always try to go in the Dispel-Archmage direction. Other versions I have tried (like UR Wizards) have been underperforming, especially with Wrenn and Six, Teferi, and Oko, Thief of Crowns in the picture.
We don't have any card draw besides horizon lands, and the Unearth that Dregscape provides is a kind of virtual card advantage (since we are recycling slivers where the opponent, presumably, spent removal) for an acceptable cost. Reanimating one or two slivers in a turn (more or less the average I have been reanimating) could be devastating, even if it is for a lord, a key ability like flying or just one more beater. Besides, mind that the reanimated sliver has haste.
Against control and grindy matchups, it shines. Against aggro decks, is just a decent beater that can provide value in case one of our slivers gets killed. Basically, we are more resilient to removal in a way that fits the beatdown plan.
Mariner is like Diffusion, but with two important differences: stats are better (which matters a lot) and protection covers all our permanents and ourselves.
The problem with Diffusion was that it was weak, and its ability would be useless in non-point-removal matchups. Mariner solves both problems nicely. Even when the opponent is not targeting our slivers, Mariner could be useful: hand hate (discard, Thought-Knot Seer), land destruction (Field of Ruin, Ghost Quarter), Liliana -2, direct damage (Mariner is basically a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben against burn), Valakut, Ballista, artifact hate... the list is very long.
And if its role is relegated to lower the opponent lives, it truly does a better job than Diffusion.
I don't think Dregscape and Mariner could be compared one with the other. They fill different roles in the deck, and I think both are a nice inclusion. Numbers can vary, but I would not be less than 3 of each (and I am very comfortable with 4 mariners). If I have to choose, I think will bet for Mariner, but I am not sure.
About lands: Gemstone and Ziggurat are poor replacements of Cavern of Souls. Gemstone is somewhat acceptable, Ziggurat is horrible when we try to activate mutavault, unearth, sliver hive or cast Aether Vial.
Horizon Lands have been very good (card drawing helps a lot) but I would set the number to 3. Don't think of them as color fixers: they are just card drawers that don't provide tempo loss. I would not rely on them to construct the manabase.
If you can afford them, pick x4 Caverns, x4 Sliver Hives and x4 Unclaimed Territory. With 3 Horizon lands and 1-2 Gemstone Mine if there are still slots, the manabase is perfetcly fine. If you can, avoid ziggurat.
(sorry for the multiple post, I was making updates as I was playing, and I thought some activity will be good for the forum)
-Moving necrotic to side, as is very powerful but narrow
-Adding more 1-drops in the form of Sidewinder
-Adding 3x Diffusion, as Mariner effect has been very powerful (and because I cannot afford Chalices)
Things I miss after more testing:
More true lords. Leeching does a very good job, but almost every sliver being 1/1 make things complicated sometimes
Mana slivers and their explosive starts, but more 2-drop 1/1 is not my cup of tea. Diffusion and Manaweft fights for some slots, as both seem very powerful.
Vizier druid 1-2 (Mulligan to 4 hurts)
Blue Tron 2-1 (Both games won thanks to Dregscape Sliver, that dude is gas)
I still miss Chalice, being poor sucks
I think the deck is great by now. Is very explosive and contundent, few decks play sweepers or can stop a deployed board, having 8 flying slivers is amazing, and our medium stats have been increased with Mariner and Dregscape.
Probably I will change Frenetic Sliver for Diffusion Sliver in side, due to Frenetic being too slow, too mana demandant and Wrath effects being low in the format.
I still find chalice very reliable, even only for shutting down Bolt/Path/Push/Stirrings. Against Infect, Storm and Burn it gives us a edge that we didn't have before.
I will continue testing this list, as is the most reliable I have played since a long time ago.
Yeah, I haven't updated that list after the bans. I'll likely swap them out for ravenous traps but only 2 and jam 2 of something else in there. Thinking of going up to 3 harmonic side. Maybe a Hivelord.
Sorcerous Spyglass could be a nice addition for fighting planeswalkers and artifact strategies.
Harmonic is cool, but there's a bit of tension when running alongside Vial and Chalice.
I tried mariners online before deciding to go with diffusions. I am realizing now that online is a terrible indicator to how a deck will perform in paper because the shuffler is awful online. Perhaps mariner is the right call, time will tell. I am please to report the IQ went well on Sunday, I finished 4-2 and 11th out of 42. No top 8 and no deck posting but a good showing.
Good record, still. Same list from last time?
If meta shifts to a more point-removal one, I will switch to Diffusion.
Meanwhile, format is so crazy I will stick to Mariner.
Any consideration for the sideboard? I find Leyline nonsensical after the bans.
Tried very similar list to ekienhol's one, wanting to test new meta.
Very surprised to see how solid it is. Fast, consisten and with a lot of outs.
Swapped one Dregscape Sliver and three Diffusion Sliver for four Unsettled Mariner
Beat 2-0 UW Control and WB Stoneblade, 1-2 against Burn.
-List is very solid, kills fast and has good recovery. All slivers are good. The weakest one is, as far as I tested, Leeching Sliver, but it gives a lot of reach.
-Chalice is, what a surprise, an all-star
-Hollowhead Sliver is surprisingly good, specially when topdecking. Between him and horizon lands, the deck draws a lot.
-Dregscape Sliver also rocks, giving virtual card advantage in grindy matchups while still being a decent beater.
-Unsettled Mariner is a hell of a card. Decent stats while protecting lands, vial and chalice, and being a nice edge against burn and storm.
Considering adding more 1-drops to side/Hivelord or First sliver for grindy matchups. Testing will tell.
Good sensations about this list. Feels powerful and with a lot of options. After refining, could be a decent Tier 3 or 2.
I still miss Manaweft Sliver explosive starts, but we can't have everything, I guess
Round 1, W 2-0 vs Mardu Death's Shadow. On the draw. Opponent started off with fetch shock thoughtseize on turn 1 so it was pretty obvious that he was on some sort of shadow strategy. His first mistake was also made. The only options he had were a Predatory sliver or a Dregscape sliver, he chose the dregscape thinking it would end the threat of unearth. We exchanged creatures for removal spells for a few turns and eventually he landed a shadow at 8/8. He had forgotten the dregscape at this point. I had cast a cloudshredder the turn before so I would have flying, I unearthed dregscape, unearthed a predatory and swung over him for the win. The only things I side boarded in were 2 Frenetic SLivers, took out 1 leeching and the hollowhead. I kept an opening 7 on the draw with 4 lands 2 vials and a chalice thinking if I can drop the chalice for 1 this game is over. He ofcouse starts off fetch shock thoughtseize and takes the chalice. My next few top decks were critical, a frenetic was next on top followed by lords. I flipped 2 coins successfully and was an easy victory once galerider joined the party.
Round 2, L 1-2 vs Lantern control. On the draw. My opponent didnt hide anything, started the game off with a land and a ghoul callers bell, immediately telling me he's on lantern. Sadly, no chalices in hand as chalice shuts lantern down hard. He got a bridge in play on turn 4 and that was pretty much it. Sided in 2 harmonic slivers, removing the dismembers. Game 2 I landed chalice for 1 on turn 2 and that was lights out. Game 3, I also landed chalice for 1 on turn 2 however my opponent cast an engineered explosives for 0 to get rid of it. He assembled 3 bridges and a spellskite behind a padeem. I found my 1 of hollowhead and started digging for a harmonic. At his end step one turn I activated 6 slivers to draw cards. I didnt realize what padeem did so I only dug to find harmonic, I should have been digging for necrotic as well. Fail on my part.
Round 3, W 2-0 vs mono red prowess. On the draw. This matchup was not very memorable, my opponent was playing the prowess version running bedlam revelers and honestly my opponent kept sketchy hand both games and ran out of gas both games. In game 2 she had to pay 5 mana for a reveler just to dump her hand to get 3 new cards. I quickly swarmed both games and didnt see chalice.
Round 4, W 2-0 vs Bant Soulherder. On the play. This was a matchup with a buddy of mine and I had never seen the deck before so I was a bit nervous. My nerves were averted though dropping chalice on 1 on turn 2's of each game which in turn shut off his paths and ephemerates. In game 1 he had a little bit of life playing several snow snakes but they didnt get him very far. Chalice was MVP this match.
Round 5, W 2-0 vs UR Phoenix. On the play. I never saw a single phoenix out of this guy in either game. In game 1 I responded to the 4th spell cast with a thing in the ice trigger on the stack and dismembered it (taking 5 by using a horizon land} was pretty much lights out after removing his only threat at the time. Sided in the leylines and warping wails but didnt see any of them. I dropped a chalice for 1 on turn 2 but a few turns later it was abraded. I soaked up 2 hits from a flipped thing in the ice only to win the next turn with a cloudshredder and sinew in play, I cast 2 leeching slivers and swung for a combined 16 while he was at 13.
Round 6, W 2-0 vs jund. I had a lot of fun in game 2 of this match. Game 1 was a non-game as my opponent kept a 1 lander on a mull and never saw land 2, his only spells were 2 hand disruption spells. I brought in warping wail and frenetics. In game 2, my opponent killed everything I played the first 5 turns. It got down to him empty handed with a tarmogoyf (4/5) and me empty handed with a yard with 9 slivers in it (3 were dregscapes). For the next 2 turns I unearthed 2-3 slivers a turn and swung them in hitting for 6 then 8 and taking him down to 5. He then started leaving the goyf back on defense. So I took a turn off and made a token with hive on his end step. My next top deck was a cloudshredder, cast it, activated my mutavault and unearthed 1 sliver for victory.
Round 7, L 1-2 vs humans f/plague engineer. I got game 1 with 3 leeching slivers and flying. Swining with 6 slivers when 3 are leeching is pretty darn lethal. In games 2 and 3 though, my opponent found his side board plague engineer and proceeded to phantasmal image it both games. This list is simply not built to handle such a threat so I scooped on spot. The only thing that could have saved there was a dismember but they were both buried deep in the deck.
I found out later that this humans player won the whole event. When we were paired in round 7, we were both 5-1 and forced to play to make top 8 because we sat 9th and 10th in standings due to poor tie breakers. I find it satisfying when the person who has to earn their spot in the top 8 ends up winning it all.
This list looks super dope! Congrats for the, even if not perfect, good performance. I have some questions, though:
-What took you to drop mana slivers? Combined with cloudshredder, they seem like a nice inclusion.
-What's the meaning behind Hollowhead? It seems like there are a lot of better options.
-Did you try Unsettled Mariner over/paired with Diffusion Sliver? Protection is worse, but it extends to lands, chalice and vial, and stats are better.
-How well Horizon Lands performed to you?
-Four Dregscape slivers is not a bit overkill? Card is great, but looks more like a 2-of
-Will you continue to play with that exact list, or there are any change you would like to try?
Again, congrats for the record and cool list.
I have been playing with a list based on one from MTG Goldfish.
Quick notes:
* The First Sliver is a hell of fun (and pretty potent)
* Lavabelly is very good at dealing with planeswalkers
* Dormant Sliver seems like a win-more
* Probably I need more lands
* Cautery is surprisingly useful
Deck is promising and very fun. I will post updates on my twitter account (@carcasanchez)from time to time
Overall, I am mostly agree with the thoughts of patbou_clone, and I will try this list for sure.
However, I will like to note that Dregscape Sliver has been really impressive for me, and a 2x or 3x maindeck. Being s 2/2 is very cool, even when we are on a race.
In a very linear Modern, Sentinel could be a little bit better (since it allows us to drop slivers without losing attackers), but Dregscape is also very contundent and another form of resiliency.
Lately, there have been some cool 5-0 lists online, and I have been winning some FNM's recently with them.
AspiringSpike (which I think is the creator of the list) has a video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKaLEG0aYdo
The good thing is that the counterspells suffered a great upgrade from Horizons and Eldraine. Achrmage's Charm is a beast, Deprive is actually a very good card, and even better paired with Mystic Sanctuary, Magmatic Sinkhole is a nice upgrade of Flame Slash, and Force of Negation is a game-changer.
The deck is mildly-placed in the meta. There are very good matchups (Vizier-druid, Tron, Storm), but some of the Tier 1 are pretty difficult (Jund, Death Shadow, Burn, Eldratron). However, the good news is that now we have better chances against them, even if they are still hard (I have been winning against burn like 45% of the time). You have little insta-lose matchups now (Auras being the only I can think of)
Thing to consider: the deck is expensive. Force of negation can be replaced (I have been playing instead with Sphinx of Foresight, a surprisingly good card), but Snapcaster Mage is a must (and the manabase is not trivial, too). Besides, the deck is tricky to play, and if you are not used to tempo decks you can have a rough onboarding.
Minding that, if you are still interested and can afford it, I absolutely recommend it: It's an incredibly fun and skill-rewarding deck.
More lists to check: https://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=351&meta=51&f=MO
Always try to go in the Dispel-Archmage direction. Other versions I have tried (like UR Wizards) have been underperforming, especially with Wrenn and Six, Teferi, and Oko, Thief of Crowns in the picture.
Against control and grindy matchups, it shines. Against aggro decks, is just a decent beater that can provide value in case one of our slivers gets killed. Basically, we are more resilient to removal in a way that fits the beatdown plan.
Mariner is like Diffusion, but with two important differences: stats are better (which matters a lot) and protection covers all our permanents and ourselves.
The problem with Diffusion was that it was weak, and its ability would be useless in non-point-removal matchups. Mariner solves both problems nicely. Even when the opponent is not targeting our slivers, Mariner could be useful: hand hate (discard, Thought-Knot Seer), land destruction (Field of Ruin, Ghost Quarter), Liliana -2, direct damage (Mariner is basically a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben against burn), Valakut, Ballista, artifact hate... the list is very long.
And if its role is relegated to lower the opponent lives, it truly does a better job than Diffusion.
I don't think Dregscape and Mariner could be compared one with the other. They fill different roles in the deck, and I think both are a nice inclusion. Numbers can vary, but I would not be less than 3 of each (and I am very comfortable with 4 mariners). If I have to choose, I think will bet for Mariner, but I am not sure.
About lands: Gemstone and Ziggurat are poor replacements of Cavern of Souls. Gemstone is somewhat acceptable, Ziggurat is horrible when we try to activate mutavault, unearth, sliver hive or cast Aether Vial.
Horizon Lands have been very good (card drawing helps a lot) but I would set the number to 3. Don't think of them as color fixers: they are just card drawers that don't provide tempo loss. I would not rely on them to construct the manabase.
If you can afford them, pick x4 Caverns, x4 Sliver Hives and x4 Unclaimed Territory. With 3 Horizon lands and 1-2 Gemstone Mine if there are still slots, the manabase is perfetcly fine. If you can, avoid ziggurat.
(sorry for the multiple post, I was making updates as I was playing, and I thought some activity will be good for the forum)
-Moving necrotic to side, as is very powerful but narrow
-Adding more 1-drops in the form of Sidewinder
-Adding 3x Diffusion, as Mariner effect has been very powerful (and because I cannot afford Chalices)
Things I miss after more testing:
More true lords. Leeching does a very good job, but almost every sliver being 1/1 make things complicated sometimes
Mana slivers and their explosive starts, but more 2-drop 1/1 is not my cup of tea. Diffusion and Manaweft fights for some slots, as both seem very powerful.
Blue Tron 2-1 (Both games won thanks to Dregscape Sliver, that dude is gas)
I still miss Chalice, being poor sucks
Affinity 2-0
Twiddle Storm 2-0
Whirza 0-2 (Though matchup, lose even with Armonic on field)
Did some testing with this list. Dropped Chalice due to monetary circunstances.
Eldratron 1-1
Jund 2-0
Eldrazi and Taxes 2-0
UR Arcanist Wizards 0-2
-As I said in the past, Dregscape Sliver is very cool even in main, providing virtual card advantage
-Manaweft Sliver, despite being weak, provides incredibly explosive starts, especially combined with Cloudshredder Sliver
-Unsettled Mariner continues to amaze me. In the four matchups I have been playing, It has stopped Thought-Knot Seer, Walking Ballista, Lightning Bolt, Path To Exile and Tidehollow Sculler.
I think the deck is great by now. Is very explosive and contundent, few decks play sweepers or can stop a deployed board, having 8 flying slivers is amazing, and our medium stats have been increased with Mariner and Dregscape.
Probably I will change Frenetic Sliver for Diffusion Sliver in side, due to Frenetic being too slow, too mana demandant and Wrath effects being low in the format.
I will continue testing this list, as is the most reliable I have played since a long time ago.
Any thoughts you want to share about current list?
Harmonic is cool, but there's a bit of tension when running alongside Vial and Chalice.
Good record, still. Same list from last time?
If meta shifts to a more point-removal one, I will switch to Diffusion.
Meanwhile, format is so crazy I will stick to Mariner.
Any consideration for the sideboard? I find Leyline nonsensical after the bans.
Very surprised to see how solid it is. Fast, consisten and with a lot of outs.
Swapped one Dregscape Sliver and three Diffusion Sliver for four Unsettled Mariner
Beat 2-0 UW Control and WB Stoneblade, 1-2 against Burn.
-List is very solid, kills fast and has good recovery. All slivers are good. The weakest one is, as far as I tested, Leeching Sliver, but it gives a lot of reach.
-Chalice is, what a surprise, an all-star
-Hollowhead Sliver is surprisingly good, specially when topdecking. Between him and horizon lands, the deck draws a lot.
-Dregscape Sliver also rocks, giving virtual card advantage in grindy matchups while still being a decent beater.
-Unsettled Mariner is a hell of a card. Decent stats while protecting lands, vial and chalice, and being a nice edge against burn and storm.
Considering adding more 1-drops to side/Hivelord or First sliver for grindy matchups. Testing will tell.
Good sensations about this list. Feels powerful and with a lot of options. After refining, could be a decent Tier 3 or 2.
I still miss Manaweft Sliver explosive starts, but we can't have everything, I guess
This list looks super dope! Congrats for the, even if not perfect, good performance. I have some questions, though:
-What took you to drop mana slivers? Combined with cloudshredder, they seem like a nice inclusion.
-What's the meaning behind Hollowhead? It seems like there are a lot of better options.
-Did you try Unsettled Mariner over/paired with Diffusion Sliver? Protection is worse, but it extends to lands, chalice and vial, and stats are better.
-How well Horizon Lands performed to you?
-Four Dregscape slivers is not a bit overkill? Card is great, but looks more like a 2-of
-Will you continue to play with that exact list, or there are any change you would like to try?
Again, congrats for the record and cool list.
Quick notes:
* The First Sliver is a hell of fun (and pretty potent)
* Lavabelly is very good at dealing with planeswalkers
* Dormant Sliver seems like a win-more
* Probably I need more lands
* Cautery is surprisingly useful
Deck is promising and very fun. I will post updates on my twitter account (@carcasanchez)from time to time
However, I will like to note that Dregscape Sliver has been really impressive for me, and a 2x or 3x maindeck. Being s 2/2 is very cool, even when we are on a race.
In a very linear Modern, Sentinel could be a little bit better (since it allows us to drop slivers without losing attackers), but Dregscape is also very contundent and another form of resiliency.