It's probably a fair assumption that his list hasn't changed very much.
Also, it is very much appreciated that you pointed out there was a recent vs series with bant eldrazi. I somehow didn't know it existed until I read your comment about it.
I know it's still a ways away, but best of luck in your event, and I look forward to hear about your experiance and what match ups you face. I am going to a PTTQ on the 30th, and hope to do well with my list as well.
Also, I'd be interested to hear Pokémontrainer17707's current thoughts on leyline of sanctity, as I have been playing it based on his recommendation. No need to reiterate yourself as to why you have had it in your sideboard, but I would like to know if it has stayed in your sideboard since you last posted about it, or have you replaced the card with something else?
I was definitely rooting for the Bant Eldrazi player with the 9-0 record on day one. Sadly, after day two, the Bant Eldrazi players list didn't get posted because it wasn't in the top 32. Also, I am happy to hear your success in your recent modern event. I have been on a bit of a hot streak myself. The last 3 weeks, I have either taken first, or split for first. While I lost a game here and there, I won all the following matches. (or split) week 1
match 1: Black White tokens
match 2: Scapeshift
match 3: Storm
match 4: grixus control (not death shadow)
Week 2:
match 1: Skred Red with rabblemaster
match 2: Living End
match 3: Jeskai Control
match 4: Counters combo ----split and avoided the bad match up.
Tonight
Match 1: Bogels
Match 2: Abzan Flayer
Match 3: Death Shadow
Match 4: Death Shadow (split, then played it out and won)
This deck consistently feels great, and its a ton of fun to turn your creatures sideways
I will possibly be doing the same thing in standard with Dinosaurs. They are shockingly similar. Some cards are almost word for word cards we play in Eldrazi. (Commune with Dinosaurs, Charging Monstrosaur, Unclaimed Territory.)
Racerxen,
I'm glad to hear you had recent success with the deck. I agree that we have access to a very strong sideboard. In the last week, I played in two modern events and took 1st place in one of them, and split for first place in the other. I tried out matter reshaper this week for the first time in a very long time. Every time I cast him, it felt underwhelming. I support your decision on cutting him from the deck completely. On a separate note, I have tested negate as a 1 of in my sideboard and the card has over performed. The fifth counter spell in my sideboard had saved me multiple times against combo decks. Cards I recall countering were living end, gifts ungiven, and cryptic command.
As for your ponza experience, I have played a lot of games against the match up and I can tell you it's a tough match up, but we can win against the deck. Fetching can be challenging because you can't just fetch for your basics because they will stone rain them. I typically try and plan my fetch lands to be available to fetch in response to a resolving blood moon. They can't stone rain a fetch land profitably so they are valuable in the match up. If I draw any basics throughout the game, I keep them in my hand for as long as possible until I would miss a land drop (if I had enough land, sometimes I would even forgo playing my land drop to keep the basic in my hand and available)
Also depending on your sideboard, you have a lot to bring in for the match up.
I board in 2 disdainful stroke, 1 negate, 2 stubborn denial, and a reclamation sage (or natural state). In particular stubborn denial is very good when your on the draw against green red ponza. If they are on the play, they can blood moon on there turn two which means you were able to play exactly 1 land before they turn all your lands to mountains. Being able to deny that can be very strong. (Note there is a situation where they can tap for 4 mana turn 2, in which case stubborn denial wouldn't work, but that is their nut draw)
Engineered explosives can be really good in this match up as well because it hits there early ramp (arbor elf utopia sprawl.) you can also set engineered explosives on 3 before blood moon hits the field. And sometimes post blood moon, you can still set EE on 3 by tapping one of your lands for red mana)
Also I have been trying two leyline of sanctity in my sideboard, and am unsure if it's a good card for us right now. It's a powerful card against death shadow, storm, burn, scapeshift, ad nausum, abzan
And lanturn. However, it only has a 22.15% chance of being in the opening hand. And if it's not in the opening hand, it costs 4 mana.
I've been thinking that runed halo may be a better option, as it can name a card in any deck and give us protection from problematic cards. ( valikut, grapeshot, lightning storm,....there is a ton of targets for the card.) thoughts?
Thanks for sharing an updated version of your list, and your grixus shadow sideboard plan. Im a bit surprised that the leyline comes in against death shadow.
Seems great if it's in your opening hand, but I can't imagine I would want to draw it at any point in the game.
With the leyline, do you ever aggressively mulligan for the card, or is your approach that if it's in your opening hand, then great, and if not, no big deal. By the time you could hard cast it, burn would probably have already won. Storm would possibly present the same problem. I'm thinking about testing it, but I've never played the card and am a bit unfamiliar with it. I know a lot of decks that run it in the sideboard usually have 3 or 4, and often times players mulligan until they see one in there opening hand.
I had suspected stubborn denial wasnt where I wanted to be in the match up.
Totally makes sense as to why we don't want them from the sideboard.
Pokémontrainer17707, when you play against shadow, what's your sideboard plan usually look like. (I'm aware your list is slightly different than mine, as I read your gp report.)
...
(also curious to hear how your list has changed since your tournament. Did surgical and rec sage make it into your list)?
...
I have found myself to be struggling against grixus death shadow as of late. It is supposed to be favored for us. Perhaps I am sideboarding incorrectly.
I run 25 creatures. 4 of each of the standard eldrazi ( 4 skyspawner 0 reshaper) plus 1 bird. 3 Engineered Explosives, 4 path, 4 sittings and 24 land.
Sideboard is
3 Rest In Peace
3 stony silence
2 graftdigger cage
2 stubborn denial
2 disdainful stroke
1 worship
1 natural state
1 thragtusk
I typically cut 4 noble, 1 bird, 2 skyspawner.
And bring in 3 Rest In Peace, 1 thragtusk, 1 worship, and 2 stubborn denial.
This was working really well when I had two blessed alliance in my 75.
Seems that recently, it ends up being a complete top deck war.
How does this community usually sideboard against grixus shadow?
I also love this deck and have opted to play it despite its bad match ups. Matter reshaper is only really good against the burn match up out of the ones you mentioned. Merfolk very often has unblockable guys, storm doesn't care at all about reshaper. Valakut also doesn't really care about reshaper anymore than it would care about a displacer or skyspawner Elves..... elves is just a bad match up. Usually I have to have an engineered explosives, and they have to have a hand that's weak to it. I don't think reshaper is the answer to the bad match ups you have mentioned.
Titanshift is a tough match up, but understanding there curve makes a big difference. It will impact your thought knot decision (it's not always right to take prime time)
Merfolk is winnable with engineered explosives as well. They get wrecked by an EE on 2. (I will reiterate that I believe 3 EE in the main is correct. It patches a lot of our weaknesses)
We lose game 1 against storm. But we have a ton of sideboard options. Your list has the potential to bring in 10 cards for that match up. And I'm certain you want at least 7. 3 Rest In Peace, 2 grafdigger cage, and 2 stubborn denial. There could be an argument for 2 disdainful strokes and the worship, although I'm not certain these come in because they are situational.
As for blood moon, it can be a challenge. It's not so bad if it's on your radar because you can fetch properly and if you have a mana dork, you can play through it. Unless of course they kill it. I have played a list before where blood moon was terrible against me, and it was always fun to watch my opponent play blood moon with such confidence, only for him to find out that my deck didn't care at all about it.
22 lands,(1 forest,1 plains, 1 island) 2 talisman of progress, 4 skyspawner, 3 drowner, 4 mana dorks.
If you always play at the same shop against the same match ups, it might be the right call to switch decks. But if your going to travel to different pttqs, you are likely to play different decks. Merfolk and elves are not all that popular right now.
Racerxen,
I was excited to hear about your PTTQ results, as I also attended a PTTQ today with a very similar deck list. Sorry to hear your tournament didn't turn out well for you. Our mainboard is the exact same,except I run a 3rd engineered explosives instead of a blessed alliance. Side board differences are that I run a 3rd stony silence, and a Thragtusk, and no EE in the side (as all 3 of mine are in the main) and only one natural state.
My thoughts on running the 3rd Engineered explosives in the main is because it makes certain match ups that are practically unwinnable possible to win. By running 3 of a certain card, I find that on average, I draw at least one a game. (especially with ancient stirrings).
No doubt elves and merfolk are unfavored match ups, but Engineered Explosives makes a big difference in a lot of match ups we are weak against, those two included. It can be clucky at times, but at worst you can usually one for one, and I would say more often than not, EE can 2 for 1 or better.
My match ups today were quite different, and to be honest a little ridiculous.
round 1 Scapeshift 2-1
round 2 Scapeshift 0-2
round 3 Death Shadow 2-1
round 4 Scapeshift 2-1
round 5 Death shadow 1-2
round 6 Eldrazi Tron 2-0
I missed top 8 bracket once I lost in round 5.
Things I think I will change going forward would be to drop down to 3 drowner of hopes (I don't want one opening hand) and put in a mainboard blessed alliance.
I own half this deck. Should I buy the other (expensive) half?
I am a good magic player, been playing magic for a few years, and modern for over a year. I own burn and Ponza. But I love me some Eldrazi.
A few other questions.
Do you think you're as good or better than Eldrazi tron?
How much of a pain in the ass is a blood moon( it doesn't seem too bad for you guys, since you play dorks and scions can sac for colorless, but I hate greedy mana that punishes you)
What is your worst matchup?
What are your meta relevant good matchups?
Are you better than Bant knightfall?
Is there a single card that reks you when you face it?
Cheers for your time bois.
I also own Ponza as my secondary deck. I think your decision to buy the expensive half of the deck should be based on if you like the "cast big fatty's and turn sideways" play style. As a Ponza player, It sounds like that might be the exact play style you enjoy.
I'm not sure if you are asking if us Bant Eldrazi players have a favorable match up against Eldrazi tron, or if us Bant Eldrazi players are better positioned in the format over eldrazi tron. So I will speak to both points. Under normal Eldrazi tron lists, as a Bant Eldrazi player, I feel favored.
.....However, as of two weeks ago, I played against two separate people from separate locations who switched out some mainboard artifacts for eldrazi mimics, which has made the match up harder for me. (I ended up losing both matches, and more testing is needed to give an answer on the tron list with mimics).
As for positioning in the format, I feel we have a very decent spot in the meta. It is hard for me to say we are better positioned in the format than tron because Eldrazi tron seems to be consistently putting up results, as well as lots of pros choosing to play the tron version over Bant.
Blood moon is situational depending on what list you play. a resolved blood moon can be very challenging if you run the standard list of 2 forests, 1 plains. I have played lists in the past where i ran two talisman of progress mainboard and 22 lands, and always thought it was hilarious when somebody played a blood moon on me. With two talismans, one of each basic land (Forest, Plains, Island), 4 skyspawners, and 3-4 drowners, blood moon was borderline terrible agaisnt me. (If I fetched correctly)
Worst match up by far is Scapeshift.
Favored match ups are usually Grixus death shadow, Eldrazi tron, and Abzan.
Matches that i feel are very winable but can sometimes get punked out include affinity, burn, and storm (post sideboard)
Most match ups I face, i feel it is at least a 50% chance to win.
In my experience, I would say I have slightly above a 50% win rate agaisnt bant knightfall. (I run 3 mainboard engineered explosives which helps a lot against a lot of matches. (merfolk, knightfall, elves, company counters, (if i don't die turn 3 to combo) affinity, lanturn.
And as for cards that wreck face, Id say Valakut. And Blood Moon can be a challenge sometimes.
No offense taken. To be honest, your probably right about being swayed by the one bad experience. I appreciate the feedback. I'm playing in two pttq's very soon. One this Sunday, and one the following Sunday, and I'm just trying to figure out some last minute things. So I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to comment on my questions.
Pokémon trainer17707, Thank you so much for replying. The reasoning behind gavony township vs ghost quarter definitely makes more sense to me now. At the very least, I will try it to see how it feels.
Drowner is great in the fair match ups, that are creature based, but I feel so favored in those match ups as is, that a 4th drowner seems over board. It's tempting to me to try and put a card in the main deck to help out bad matchups like combo.(that's why I was trying a main board Stubborn denial) Maybe I'll give it a try though. 12-3 at a competitive event shows some credibility to the idea.
As far as blood moon goes, It's surprising to me that more players don't run a basic island in the list. I know it's not fetchable with windswept heath and all, but it just seems that with your list, a resolved blood moon is practically an auto lose. I read earlier you have a 1 of ratchet bomb in the side for blood moon. But still, the blue eldrazi are the ones that create colorless mana. So under a blood moon, if you don't have a bird or noble out, you cant cast anything but a vanilla 3/3 displacer or an ancient stirrings which can't even find a blue source. (Assuming blood moon is resolved)
I played a game one time where blood moon was resolved and I had a basic forest, but no dork. I had to dig through my deck until I found a bird or noble.
when I finally found one, it got bolted before I could even tap it for mana. I have been running a basic island ever since.
Have you ever considered running 1 of each basic land (1 forest, 1 plains, 1 island) instead of what is currently the gold standard of 2 Forest, 1 Plains?
First of all, thank you Pokémon trainer 17707, for posting about you GP experience. The input is much appreciated. Secondly, I have some questions.
My current list is very close to your list, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on the few differences in my list.
3 drowner of hope
0 birds of paradise
0 dismember
Instead I run
1 mainboard blessed alliance
1 mainboard stubborn denial
And a 3rd engineered explosives
Have you considered 4 Drowner of hope to be too many?
Have you ever considered removing the birds of paradise from your list, despite the general consensus to be that 1 bird is the correct number?
For the differences is land, looks like you prefer gavony township over ghost quarter. Thoughts on ghost quarter?
And lastly, I see you run 2 Rest In Peace and had mentioned you'd run a surgical extraction. What's your opinion on just doing 3 Rest In Peace instead?
(.....One last thing, seems like if you cut worship and thragtusk, your burn match up becomes much worse than it already is. )
Thanks for sharing your opinion with all of us Bant Eldrazi players!
Also, I am curious to hear from this community when thragtusk shines from the sideboard. Seems best against burn, and even then, I often find myself dead a turn before I can cast him.
Other match ups I'd bring him in would be blue white control for extra threats. But what else? There could be an argument for affinity, but he doesn't fly and can be slow to resolve. Currently thinking about cutting him for a flashfreeze.
Flashfreeze may be underrated for our deck. I haven't had much testing with it yet, but in theory, it seems great. It's a card that can be used in many of our tough match ups.
A two mana spell that seems good against
Burn
Titanshift
And abzan/counters company.
Even red green ponza (fringe deck, but has been picking up popularity near me)
Seems better to have one card for all these decks instead of warping wail for abzan company, disdainful stroke for titanshift and thragtusk for burn. (I still like one disdainful stroke for eldrazi tron and regular tron).
What do you all think? Thragtusk a reasonable cut? And does flashfreeze perform as well as it seems like it would?
Current sideboard is as follows:
3 stony silence
3 Rest In Peace
2 grafdiggers cage
2 stubborn denial
2 flashfreeze
1 natures claim
1 worship
1 distainful stroke
After GP Vegas, I have removed 1 Blessed Alliance in the sideboard and replaced it with 1 Worship.
The match ups were as follows:
Game 1: Storm - win
Game 2: Grixus Shadow-lost (should have won, but made a costly mistake.)
Game 3: Thopter Sword - win
Game 4: Ad Nauseum - win
Game 5: Burn- win
Game 6: -Abzan (with Grim Flayer)-win
Game 7:- Eldrazi Tron - win
Game 8: -Burn -lose
Game 9: - Bant Spirits - lose
Ended up not playing in day two, even though I qualified with a record of 6-3 (after game 7, my record looked pretty darn good being at 6 wins, 1 loss. And that one loss being my own fault. For those interested in the mistake ....
The costly mistake I made in round 2 against Grixus Death Shadow was--- I had Displacer, Thought-knot Seer, and a Rest In Peace on board, 7 mana open. He was at 6 life, with a tapped Death Shadow and tapped Tasaguir on his board. I played Smasher, swung team. (Displacer, Thought-Knot, and Reality Smasher) He flashed in not 1, but 2 Snapcasters and blocked Thought-Knot and Displacer, took 5 damage, went to 1. Killed me on crack back.
I should have played another Thought-Knot from my hand, and I would have known about the Snapcaster'S (yes plural) before attacking. Also, I would of also had enough mana for a back up blink with Displacer.
Things I am happy with in my deck
No Bird of Paradise.
I know it's popular to have the 5th mana dork from a probability stand point. My reasoning for no bird is that in my countless games of playing this exact list, I would always keep note to myself on how many times I had a relic of progenitus in my opening hand and no dork. My thought process... how many times do I wish this relic of progenitus was a birds of paradise. And I am not under exaggerating, I can recall one time where I wish it was a birds. Once. Out of a ton of games. Also Birds of Paradise is a terrible top deck.
Playing skyspawner over matter reshaper
Skyspawner offers a few things that I feel are more significant than the replacement effect of matter reshaper.
Skyspawner is evasive, and can block evasive creatures. It puts two body's on the board, the scion it brings along with him offers pretty consistent ramp, and hedges against blood moon.
3 Drowner of Hopes instead of 4
Yes, only 3. I don't really want one of these in my opening hand, as they cost so much mana, even with eldrazi temples.
3 Engineered Explosives
This card has proven to be very good.
It pulls its weight and more. It makes bad match ups for us less bad. Elves and merfolk come to mind. Often times you can 2 for 1 your opponent with it. Mainboard answer to artifact or enchantments. Can kill an infinite amount of tokens ( lingering souls, empty the warrens) just a solid card for the deck that patches potiential weaknesses.
Talisman of progress and 1 island.
2 mana to play a ramp spell and hedges against Blood Moon which can just shut our deck down. Especially if your playing the 2 Forest plan. How do you even play through Blood Moon with 2 Forests? You can't cast skyspawner or drowners, absolutely no way to make colorless mana. I definitely recommend 1 island. Even if you can't fetch for it. And if you want that option, play 2 misty rainforest.
I wanted to share my list as I have found it to bring me much success, and just hope to pass the success onward.
Also, it is very much appreciated that you pointed out there was a recent vs series with bant eldrazi. I somehow didn't know it existed until I read your comment about it.
I know it's still a ways away, but best of luck in your event, and I look forward to hear about your experiance and what match ups you face. I am going to a PTTQ on the 30th, and hope to do well with my list as well.
Also, I'd be interested to hear Pokémontrainer17707's current thoughts on leyline of sanctity, as I have been playing it based on his recommendation. No need to reiterate yourself as to why you have had it in your sideboard, but I would like to know if it has stayed in your sideboard since you last posted about it, or have you replaced the card with something else?
week 1
match 1: Black White tokens
match 2: Scapeshift
match 3: Storm
match 4: grixus control (not death shadow)
Week 2:
match 1: Skred Red with rabblemaster
match 2: Living End
match 3: Jeskai Control
match 4: Counters combo ----split and avoided the bad match up.
Tonight
Match 1: Bogels
Match 2: Abzan Flayer
Match 3: Death Shadow
Match 4: Death Shadow (split, then played it out and won)
This deck consistently feels great, and its a ton of fun to turn your creatures sideways
I will possibly be doing the same thing in standard with Dinosaurs. They are shockingly similar. Some cards are almost word for word cards we play in Eldrazi. (Commune with Dinosaurs, Charging Monstrosaur, Unclaimed Territory.)
I'm glad to hear you had recent success with the deck. I agree that we have access to a very strong sideboard. In the last week, I played in two modern events and took 1st place in one of them, and split for first place in the other. I tried out matter reshaper this week for the first time in a very long time. Every time I cast him, it felt underwhelming. I support your decision on cutting him from the deck completely. On a separate note, I have tested negate as a 1 of in my sideboard and the card has over performed. The fifth counter spell in my sideboard had saved me multiple times against combo decks. Cards I recall countering were living end, gifts ungiven, and cryptic command.
As for your ponza experience, I have played a lot of games against the match up and I can tell you it's a tough match up, but we can win against the deck. Fetching can be challenging because you can't just fetch for your basics because they will stone rain them. I typically try and plan my fetch lands to be available to fetch in response to a resolving blood moon. They can't stone rain a fetch land profitably so they are valuable in the match up. If I draw any basics throughout the game, I keep them in my hand for as long as possible until I would miss a land drop (if I had enough land, sometimes I would even forgo playing my land drop to keep the basic in my hand and available)
Also depending on your sideboard, you have a lot to bring in for the match up.
I board in 2 disdainful stroke, 1 negate, 2 stubborn denial, and a reclamation sage (or natural state). In particular stubborn denial is very good when your on the draw against green red ponza. If they are on the play, they can blood moon on there turn two which means you were able to play exactly 1 land before they turn all your lands to mountains. Being able to deny that can be very strong. (Note there is a situation where they can tap for 4 mana turn 2, in which case stubborn denial wouldn't work, but that is their nut draw)
Engineered explosives can be really good in this match up as well because it hits there early ramp (arbor elf utopia sprawl.) you can also set engineered explosives on 3 before blood moon hits the field. And sometimes post blood moon, you can still set EE on 3 by tapping one of your lands for red mana)
Also I have been trying two leyline of sanctity in my sideboard, and am unsure if it's a good card for us right now. It's a powerful card against death shadow, storm, burn, scapeshift, ad nausum, abzan
And lanturn. However, it only has a 22.15% chance of being in the opening hand. And if it's not in the opening hand, it costs 4 mana.
I've been thinking that runed halo may be a better option, as it can name a card in any deck and give us protection from problematic cards. ( valikut, grapeshot, lightning storm,....there is a ton of targets for the card.) thoughts?
Seems great if it's in your opening hand, but I can't imagine I would want to draw it at any point in the game.
With the leyline, do you ever aggressively mulligan for the card, or is your approach that if it's in your opening hand, then great, and if not, no big deal. By the time you could hard cast it, burn would probably have already won. Storm would possibly present the same problem. I'm thinking about testing it, but I've never played the card and am a bit unfamiliar with it. I know a lot of decks that run it in the sideboard usually have 3 or 4, and often times players mulligan until they see one in there opening hand.
Totally makes sense as to why we don't want them from the sideboard.
Pokémontrainer17707, when you play against shadow, what's your sideboard plan usually look like. (I'm aware your list is slightly different than mine, as I read your gp report.)
...
(also curious to hear how your list has changed since your tournament. Did surgical and rec sage make it into your list)?
...
I run 25 creatures. 4 of each of the standard eldrazi ( 4 skyspawner 0 reshaper) plus 1 bird. 3 Engineered Explosives, 4 path, 4 sittings and 24 land.
Sideboard is
3 Rest In Peace
3 stony silence
2 graftdigger cage
2 stubborn denial
2 disdainful stroke
1 worship
1 natural state
1 thragtusk
I typically cut 4 noble, 1 bird, 2 skyspawner.
And bring in 3 Rest In Peace, 1 thragtusk, 1 worship, and 2 stubborn denial.
This was working really well when I had two blessed alliance in my 75.
Seems that recently, it ends up being a complete top deck war.
How does this community usually sideboard against grixus shadow?
Titanshift is a tough match up, but understanding there curve makes a big difference. It will impact your thought knot decision (it's not always right to take prime time)
Merfolk is winnable with engineered explosives as well. They get wrecked by an EE on 2. (I will reiterate that I believe 3 EE in the main is correct. It patches a lot of our weaknesses)
We lose game 1 against storm. But we have a ton of sideboard options. Your list has the potential to bring in 10 cards for that match up. And I'm certain you want at least 7. 3 Rest In Peace, 2 grafdigger cage, and 2 stubborn denial. There could be an argument for 2 disdainful strokes and the worship, although I'm not certain these come in because they are situational.
As for blood moon, it can be a challenge. It's not so bad if it's on your radar because you can fetch properly and if you have a mana dork, you can play through it. Unless of course they kill it. I have played a list before where blood moon was terrible against me, and it was always fun to watch my opponent play blood moon with such confidence, only for him to find out that my deck didn't care at all about it.
22 lands,(1 forest,1 plains, 1 island) 2 talisman of progress, 4 skyspawner, 3 drowner, 4 mana dorks.
If you always play at the same shop against the same match ups, it might be the right call to switch decks. But if your going to travel to different pttqs, you are likely to play different decks. Merfolk and elves are not all that popular right now.
I was excited to hear about your PTTQ results, as I also attended a PTTQ today with a very similar deck list. Sorry to hear your tournament didn't turn out well for you. Our mainboard is the exact same,except I run a 3rd engineered explosives instead of a blessed alliance. Side board differences are that I run a 3rd stony silence, and a Thragtusk, and no EE in the side (as all 3 of mine are in the main) and only one natural state.
My thoughts on running the 3rd Engineered explosives in the main is because it makes certain match ups that are practically unwinnable possible to win. By running 3 of a certain card, I find that on average, I draw at least one a game. (especially with ancient stirrings).
No doubt elves and merfolk are unfavored match ups, but Engineered Explosives makes a big difference in a lot of match ups we are weak against, those two included. It can be clucky at times, but at worst you can usually one for one, and I would say more often than not, EE can 2 for 1 or better.
My match ups today were quite different, and to be honest a little ridiculous.
round 1 Scapeshift 2-1
round 2 Scapeshift 0-2
round 3 Death Shadow 2-1
round 4 Scapeshift 2-1
round 5 Death shadow 1-2
round 6 Eldrazi Tron 2-0
I missed top 8 bracket once I lost in round 5.
Things I think I will change going forward would be to drop down to 3 drowner of hopes (I don't want one opening hand) and put in a mainboard blessed alliance.
I also own Ponza as my secondary deck. I think your decision to buy the expensive half of the deck should be based on if you like the "cast big fatty's and turn sideways" play style. As a Ponza player, It sounds like that might be the exact play style you enjoy.
I'm not sure if you are asking if us Bant Eldrazi players have a favorable match up against Eldrazi tron, or if us Bant Eldrazi players are better positioned in the format over eldrazi tron. So I will speak to both points. Under normal Eldrazi tron lists, as a Bant Eldrazi player, I feel favored.
.....However, as of two weeks ago, I played against two separate people from separate locations who switched out some mainboard artifacts for eldrazi mimics, which has made the match up harder for me. (I ended up losing both matches, and more testing is needed to give an answer on the tron list with mimics).
As for positioning in the format, I feel we have a very decent spot in the meta. It is hard for me to say we are better positioned in the format than tron because Eldrazi tron seems to be consistently putting up results, as well as lots of pros choosing to play the tron version over Bant.
Blood moon is situational depending on what list you play. a resolved blood moon can be very challenging if you run the standard list of 2 forests, 1 plains. I have played lists in the past where i ran two talisman of progress mainboard and 22 lands, and always thought it was hilarious when somebody played a blood moon on me. With two talismans, one of each basic land (Forest, Plains, Island), 4 skyspawners, and 3-4 drowners, blood moon was borderline terrible agaisnt me. (If I fetched correctly)
Worst match up by far is Scapeshift.
Favored match ups are usually Grixus death shadow, Eldrazi tron, and Abzan.
Matches that i feel are very winable but can sometimes get punked out include affinity, burn, and storm (post sideboard)
Most match ups I face, i feel it is at least a 50% chance to win.
In my experience, I would say I have slightly above a 50% win rate agaisnt bant knightfall. (I run 3 mainboard engineered explosives which helps a lot against a lot of matches. (merfolk, knightfall, elves, company counters, (if i don't die turn 3 to combo) affinity, lanturn.
And as for cards that wreck face, Id say Valakut. And Blood Moon can be a challenge sometimes.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Drowner is great in the fair match ups, that are creature based, but I feel so favored in those match ups as is, that a 4th drowner seems over board. It's tempting to me to try and put a card in the main deck to help out bad matchups like combo.(that's why I was trying a main board Stubborn denial) Maybe I'll give it a try though. 12-3 at a competitive event shows some credibility to the idea.
As far as blood moon goes, It's surprising to me that more players don't run a basic island in the list. I know it's not fetchable with windswept heath and all, but it just seems that with your list, a resolved blood moon is practically an auto lose. I read earlier you have a 1 of ratchet bomb in the side for blood moon. But still, the blue eldrazi are the ones that create colorless mana. So under a blood moon, if you don't have a bird or noble out, you cant cast anything but a vanilla 3/3 displacer or an ancient stirrings which can't even find a blue source. (Assuming blood moon is resolved)
I played a game one time where blood moon was resolved and I had a basic forest, but no dork. I had to dig through my deck until I found a bird or noble.
when I finally found one, it got bolted before I could even tap it for mana. I have been running a basic island ever since.
Have you ever considered running 1 of each basic land (1 forest, 1 plains, 1 island) instead of what is currently the gold standard of 2 Forest, 1 Plains?
My current list is very close to your list, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on the few differences in my list.
3 drowner of hope
0 birds of paradise
0 dismember
Instead I run
1 mainboard blessed alliance
1 mainboard stubborn denial
And a 3rd engineered explosives
Have you considered 4 Drowner of hope to be too many?
Have you ever considered removing the birds of paradise from your list, despite the general consensus to be that 1 bird is the correct number?
For the differences is land, looks like you prefer gavony township over ghost quarter. Thoughts on ghost quarter?
And lastly, I see you run 2 Rest In Peace and had mentioned you'd run a surgical extraction. What's your opinion on just doing 3 Rest In Peace instead?
(.....One last thing, seems like if you cut worship and thragtusk, your burn match up becomes much worse than it already is. )
Thanks for sharing your opinion with all of us Bant Eldrazi players!
Also, I am curious to hear from this community when thragtusk shines from the sideboard. Seems best against burn, and even then, I often find myself dead a turn before I can cast him.
Other match ups I'd bring him in would be blue white control for extra threats. But what else? There could be an argument for affinity, but he doesn't fly and can be slow to resolve. Currently thinking about cutting him for a flashfreeze.
Flashfreeze may be underrated for our deck. I haven't had much testing with it yet, but in theory, it seems great. It's a card that can be used in many of our tough match ups.
A two mana spell that seems good against
Burn
Titanshift
And abzan/counters company.
Even red green ponza (fringe deck, but has been picking up popularity near me)
Seems better to have one card for all these decks instead of warping wail for abzan company, disdainful stroke for titanshift and thragtusk for burn. (I still like one disdainful stroke for eldrazi tron and regular tron).
What do you all think? Thragtusk a reasonable cut? And does flashfreeze perform as well as it seems like it would?
Current sideboard is as follows:
3 stony silence
3 Rest In Peace
2 grafdiggers cage
2 stubborn denial
2 flashfreeze
1 natures claim
1 worship
1 distainful stroke
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Drowner of Hope
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Talisman of Progress
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to Exile
1 Blessed Alliance
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Windswept Heath
3 Brushland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Yavimaya Coast
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
Sideboard
3 Stony Silence
3 Rest In Peace
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Thragtusk
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Nature's Claim
After GP Vegas, I have removed 1 Blessed Alliance in the sideboard and replaced it with 1 Worship.
The match ups were as follows:
Game 1: Storm - win
Game 2: Grixus Shadow-lost (should have won, but made a costly mistake.)
Game 3: Thopter Sword - win
Game 4: Ad Nauseum - win
Game 5: Burn- win
Game 6: -Abzan (with Grim Flayer)-win
Game 7:- Eldrazi Tron - win
Game 8: -Burn -lose
Game 9: - Bant Spirits - lose
Ended up not playing in day two, even though I qualified with a record of 6-3 (after game 7, my record looked pretty darn good being at 6 wins, 1 loss. And that one loss being my own fault. For those interested in the mistake ....
The costly mistake I made in round 2 against Grixus Death Shadow was--- I had Displacer, Thought-knot Seer, and a Rest In Peace on board, 7 mana open. He was at 6 life, with a tapped Death Shadow and tapped Tasaguir on his board. I played Smasher, swung team. (Displacer, Thought-Knot, and Reality Smasher) He flashed in not 1, but 2 Snapcasters and blocked Thought-Knot and Displacer, took 5 damage, went to 1. Killed me on crack back.
I should have played another Thought-Knot from my hand, and I would have known about the Snapcaster'S (yes plural) before attacking. Also, I would of also had enough mana for a back up blink with Displacer.
Things I am happy with in my deck
No Bird of Paradise.
I know it's popular to have the 5th mana dork from a probability stand point. My reasoning for no bird is that in my countless games of playing this exact list, I would always keep note to myself on how many times I had a relic of progenitus in my opening hand and no dork. My thought process... how many times do I wish this relic of progenitus was a birds of paradise. And I am not under exaggerating, I can recall one time where I wish it was a birds. Once. Out of a ton of games. Also Birds of Paradise is a terrible top deck.
Playing skyspawner over matter reshaper
Skyspawner offers a few things that I feel are more significant than the replacement effect of matter reshaper.
Skyspawner is evasive, and can block evasive creatures. It puts two body's on the board, the scion it brings along with him offers pretty consistent ramp, and hedges against blood moon.
3 Drowner of Hopes instead of 4
Yes, only 3. I don't really want one of these in my opening hand, as they cost so much mana, even with eldrazi temples.
3 Engineered Explosives
This card has proven to be very good.
It pulls its weight and more. It makes bad match ups for us less bad. Elves and merfolk come to mind. Often times you can 2 for 1 your opponent with it. Mainboard answer to artifact or enchantments. Can kill an infinite amount of tokens ( lingering souls, empty the warrens) just a solid card for the deck that patches potiential weaknesses.
Talisman of progress and 1 island.
2 mana to play a ramp spell and hedges against Blood Moon which can just shut our deck down. Especially if your playing the 2 Forest plan. How do you even play through Blood Moon with 2 Forests? You can't cast skyspawner or drowners, absolutely no way to make colorless mana. I definitely recommend 1 island. Even if you can't fetch for it. And if you want that option, play 2 misty rainforest.
I wanted to share my list as I have found it to bring me much success, and just hope to pass the success onward.