"Izzet TITI's"
6/2/18 build
(still waiting for my mail)
18 lands:
4 flooded strand
4 island
4 scalding tarn
4 steam vents
2 mountain
(removed cavern of souls for lack of synergy w/blood moon and to run more cantrips.)
16 creatures:
4 bedlam reveler
4 snapcaster mage
4 stormchaser mage
4 thing in the ice
26 spells:
4 anger of the gods
4 lightning bolt
4 opt
4 serum visions
4 sleight of hand
4 thought scour (newest addition. very strong.)
2 blood moon
SB
4 monastery swiftspear
4 vapor snag (4+ toughness creatures)
2 smash to smithereens
2 spellskite
2 surgical extraction (unsure about this card)
1 blood moon
Been gone for awhile. Nice primer though. I'd like to suggest 2 "fog" that seem to be missed quite often. Sudden Spoiling Good fog that only doesn't work against affinity. But the plus side is it is uncounterable. Settle the Wreckage instant fog that resets the board and pulls all basic lands out the deck for a faster mill. The exile effect is also not completely useless.
Would Sudden Spoiling only be bad against affinty because of cranial plating?
@Endurrr Is the Marsh Flats over the third Tarn a budget thing, or is it a deliberate choice to even out the balance of lands fetching for Island vs. Swamp? Honest question from a potential newcomer, not trying to harp on budget stuff.
It's kinda both. I could buy the last tarn, but I've been content with the marsh flats so I would rather not spend the $70~ on another tarn. And if I want to fetch a basic against blood moon, I usually want my swamp first, which marsh flats is nice for. Otherwise it makes no real difference.
Do you guys ever have problems with card advantage? These lists don't really have a way main board (minus Ob-Nixilis) to gain card advantage or dig through the deck.
I play dark confidant in my build, so I don't have problems with it, but I could understand why other builds might.
20 lands:
4 flooded strand
4 island
4 scalding tarn
4 steam vents
2 cavern of souls (horror/human)
2 mountain
16 horrors/humans:
4 bedlam reveler
4 snapcaster mage
4 stormchaser mage (4 toughness under anger)
4 thing in the ice (TITI)
24 instants/sorceries:
4 anger of the gods
4 blood moon
4 lightning bolt
4 opt
4 serum visions
4 sleight of hand
SB
4 monastery swiftspear (when angers get sided out, ideal 1-drop/too many 2-drops)
4 relic of progenitus
4 spellskite
3 smash to smithereens
when my bedlam revelers arrive in the mail, i'll post my testing/tourney results!
Just from looking at the list, I'm curious, why not just play swiftspears in the main? Unless you're really worried about creature decks like humans and robots, seems a little silly to run 4 anger in the main.
Hey all, been playing modern for a while now, but not really sure what deck I want to start building towards next, so I'm here now.
Cards you already own:
In paper, I own mostly cards in grixis colors, but also own tron and eldrazi stuff.
Colors you like to play:
I like all colors, though white and green are probably my least favorite.
Style you like to play (control, combo, aggro, midrange, tempo, ramp, rogue):
I love midrange and anything rogue, but also enjoy playing aggro and control. Never really played combo so I'm not really sure about that.
Level you want to play at, or aim to build up to (causal, fnm, ptq)
as long as it can win games and is fun to play, idc.
[quote from="SavageGaul »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/midrange/572973-bw-midrange-deadguy-ale?comment=1188"]Cool list man, have you considered pack rat? I feel the card is a lot better than tidehollow sculler.
Also in terms of your sideboard, have you considered mirran crusaders? They make MUs against other Bx midrange decks way better, and are really good with swords. For reference, this is my sb:
Thanks! I have considered Pack Rat, but after reading the last ten or so pages of this thread, I see that most people have been less impressed with it lately than they were in the past. Then again, that seems to be true for Sculler as well. It seems to me that there isn’t enough discard fodder in the deck to allow for Pack Rat and Collective Brutality to coexist in the main, and I’ve always been a huge advocate for Brutality. Still, I’m interested to hear your case for Pack Rat!
A friend has been kind enough to indulge me in a whole lot of testing, and in those games Sculler has been strong. My build is all-in on discard, making Sculler more likely to stick than most shells. He is granted an additional layer of protection by the equipment toolbox—a Sword to keep a Sculler alive and turn him into a dangerous attacker and value engine feels great in a grindy game.
Mirran Crusader has always been one of my favorite cards, and I agree that he’s strong here. He’s in the maybeboard of the above build; I have also been testing a legal version of the deck (-3 Mystic, -1 Batterskull; +1 Steelshaper’s Gift, +2 Smuggler’s Copter, +1 Mirran Crusader) and he’s been solid.
Our sideboards look quite similar (especially considering my omission of Stony due to SFM). The big question I have for you is about Liliana, the Last Hope, which my first draft of the deck ran as a one-of main. I love her in most Bx decks, but here I feel that her -2 isn’t consistently good enough to warrant a place. She’s still fine against weenie decks, but I’ve had better luck with the planeswalkers that produce tokens. What are your experiences with her?
Thanks for the discussion! Orzhov is the coolest color pairing in Modern IMO.
What are everyone’s thoughts on the likelihood of the SFM unban happening in the near future?
</blockquote>
I like pack rat because of dark confidant, and because pack rat allows me to go for a more aggroish plan if need be as well as allowing me to bin dead cards. I should add that I play 0 brutality in the main because I'd rather be discarding to pack rat or lotv than brutality.
As for liliana, the last hope, I like her as a value engine against slower decks like lantern, uw control, and other decks where critical mass of cards is important. I also like her as an additional removal spell against decks with smaller creatures like goblins, death and taxes, and humans.
Lastly, Stoneforge mystic is an awesome card, and would be a great card to unban imo, I believe it is one of the most likely things to be unbanned if any. Here's the thing though. Wotc has had a record of being WAYYYYY to cautious in terms of b&r, and after the most recent unbans, I think wizards is probably too scared to add another card to modern that many players seem to think is "busted" or will "break the format" so I doubt they will do it. Although I wouldnt expect to see another unban for a least another year from now anyways, but I guess all we can do is speculate.
Anyways here's my full decklist if you're curious.
There have been scg articles advocating faithless looting in this deck to help with mitigating flood and wrong half syndrome. Being a huge fan of the grind and card advantage, I'm initially sceptical. Has anyone tried those lists yet, and what were your impressions of looting?
I haven't played any of those decks, but I've played other midrange decks with looting(rbx pyromancer) and it's pretty good in those so I could see it working here
Ever since playing Stoneforge Mystic in some casual games, I’ve been chomping at the bit waiting for her (hopefully inevitable!) unban. I’m also feeling a strong desire to play an interactive, discard-heavy Bx midrange deck to go along with my other main decks (UW Control and Ad Nauseam). With those incentives in place, BW Midrange seems like the perfect fit. To that end, I’ve been working on a list in order to stay ahead of the meta (and the price spikes lol) if and when SFM is unleashed.
I hope it isn’t too off-topic to post the list here and ask for critiques. It’s been performing very well in testing, but then again it’s utilizing a card that’s still on the banned list! Beyond these recent games, I have no experience playing BW/Deadguy, so any pointers will be well received. Thanks.
Also in terms of your sideboard, have you considered mirran crusaders? They make MUs against other Bx midrange decks way better, and are really good with swords. For reference, this is my sb:
So I'm pretty interested in this deck and was wondering how the MUs are.
Also curious why many of the recent lists on this thread have no pox in them?
Thanks in advance.
The thing with pox is that you need it in your opening hand or it's just a dead card in the graveyard. The same holds for Infestation, but the latter is a repetitive engine that wins us the game eventually, so it's an acceptable drawback. To the contrary, pox cannot justify the dead GY slots, because it's tempo swing but only if you get lucky. Also, it needs more lands to not hinter us too, which means that we get even less slots for powerful graveyard shenanigans.
It's not a bad card in the archetype by any means, but I'd rather ran Axes/Conflags in its slots, because they're more versatile for grinding.
Matchup-wise, the archetype (at least my builds) is heavily favored against midrange, Despair often does a good job to even the field against combo, whereas Pharaohs/Conflags/Darkblasts decimate aggro game 1.
Our main weakness is that we're incredibly soft to graveyard hate post-board (mostly against the enchantments) and thus we need to board in anti-hate in the blind, without which we are bound to lose.
A short note: the archetype is essentially slower but grindier dredge.
Thanks for the quick reply.
After reading this thread I threw this list together, thoughts?
The tempo build has a faerie sub-theme with spellstutter sprite and vendillion clique. This engine has proven to be powerful in the past and still is to this day, and not only that but it seems fantastic with the wizard spells. The tempo version has a lot of powerful plays and is very flexible, being able to play the control game or the aggro one depending on the matchup. Play this build if you like playing efficient counterspells and high temp cards like clique and remand, or if just like having some fun games of magic.
This deck capitalizes on the efficient burn given with red and the mighty draw engine of faithless looting and bedlam reveler used in mardu pyromancer/midrange, a deck which is arguably tier 1 right now. The aggro build is very focused on burning your opponent out of the game with lightning bolt and all it's knock offs, while drawing more copies of them, which is nice since it means you dont need your creatures as much to win. Play this build if you like drawing cards and throwing bolts at your opponent.
I should also note that I feel the aggro build is more competitive, even if only marginally so.
For those curious about the green splash, I figured it would be wise since it doesnt have as many counters, that the deck have efficient ways to deal with things like leyline of sanctity, which is important since there is so much burn in the deck.
here's a few cards you could try
1 flame slash
1 roast
1 dismember
1 sweltering suns
threats
1 young pyromancer
1 cryptic serpent
1 storm entity
1 faithless looting
1 peek
counterspells
1 mana leak
1 remand
1 logic knot
1 spell pierce
1 spell snare
1 izzet charm
1 cryptic command
1 piracy charm
1 fury charm
lands
1 spirebluff canal
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1132677#paper
What are the thoughts on this?
Would Sudden Spoiling only be bad against affinty because of cranial plating?
It's kinda both. I could buy the last tarn, but I've been content with the marsh flats so I would rather not spend the $70~ on another tarn. And if I want to fetch a basic against blood moon, I usually want my swamp first, which marsh flats is nice for. Otherwise it makes no real difference.
I play dark confidant in my build, so I don't have problems with it, but I could understand why other builds might.
Just from looking at the list, I'm curious, why not just play swiftspears in the main? Unless you're really worried about creature decks like humans and robots, seems a little silly to run 4 anger in the main.
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
Instants (18)
1 Dismember
2 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Opt
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Temur Battle Rage
1 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
Creatures (16)
4 Death's Shadow
3 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dreadbore
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pyroclasm
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Temur Battle Rage
I was also hoping for some advice on my sideboard.
Thanks in advance.
Cards you already own:
In paper, I own mostly cards in grixis colors, but also own tron and eldrazi stuff.
Colors you like to play:
I like all colors, though white and green are probably my least favorite.
Style you like to play (control, combo, aggro, midrange, tempo, ramp, rogue):
I love midrange and anything rogue, but also enjoy playing aggro and control. Never really played combo so I'm not really sure about that.
Level you want to play at, or aim to build up to (causal, fnm, ptq)
as long as it can win games and is fun to play, idc.
I like pack rat because of dark confidant, and because pack rat allows me to go for a more aggroish plan if need be as well as allowing me to bin dead cards. I should add that I play 0 brutality in the main because I'd rather be discarding to pack rat or lotv than brutality.
As for liliana, the last hope, I like her as a value engine against slower decks like lantern, uw control, and other decks where critical mass of cards is important. I also like her as an additional removal spell against decks with smaller creatures like goblins, death and taxes, and humans.
Lastly, Stoneforge mystic is an awesome card, and would be a great card to unban imo, I believe it is one of the most likely things to be unbanned if any. Here's the thing though. Wotc has had a record of being WAYYYYY to cautious in terms of b&r, and after the most recent unbans, I think wizards is probably too scared to add another card to modern that many players seem to think is "busted" or will "break the format" so I doubt they will do it. Although I wouldnt expect to see another unban for a least another year from now anyways, but I guess all we can do is speculate.
Anyways here's my full decklist if you're curious.
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Fetid Heath
4 Field of Ruin
2 Godless Shrine
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Shambling Vent
4 Swamp
Artifacts (4)
4 Smuggler's Copter
2 Anguished Unmaking
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
Sorceries (11)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Liliana of the Veil
Creatures (10)
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Dark Confidant
4 Pack Rat
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
3 Damping Sphere
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
I haven't played any of those decks, but I've played other midrange decks with looting(rbx pyromancer) and it's pretty good in those so I could see it working here
Cool list man, have you considered pack rat? I feel the card is a lot better than tidehollow sculler.
Also in terms of your sideboard, have you considered mirran crusaders? They make MUs against other Bx midrange decks way better, and are really good with swords. For reference, this is my sb:
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
3 Damping Sphere
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
mb arguel's blood fast is pretty cool i guess, but otherwise doesnt seem too unique.
Thanks for the quick reply.
After reading this thread I threw this list together, thoughts?
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Enchantments (4)
4 Zombie Infestation
1 Darkblast
1 Lightning Axe
Sorceries (20)
2 Collective Brutality
3 Conflagrate
3 Driven // Despair
4 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
4 Lingering Souls
Creatures (12)
4 Bloodghast
1 Golgari Brownscale
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Ancient Grudge
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Failure // Comply
3 Golgari Brownscale
1 Raven's Crime
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
Also curious why many of the recent lists on this thread have no pox in them?
Thanks in advance.
The tempo build:
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Island
1 Mountain
1 Mutavault
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
Instants (19)
1 Dismember
2 Electrolyze
1 Opt
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Remand
4 Wizard's Lightning
4 Wizard's Retort
3 Chart a Course
4 Serum Visions
Creatures (16)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Stormchaser Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dispel
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Pithing Needle
2 Precognition Field
1 Pyroclasm
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Surgical Extraction
The tempo build has a faerie sub-theme with spellstutter sprite and vendillion clique. This engine has proven to be powerful in the past and still is to this day, and not only that but it seems fantastic with the wizard spells. The tempo version has a lot of powerful plays and is very flexible, being able to play the control game or the aggro one depending on the matchup. Play this build if you like playing efficient counterspells and high temp cards like clique and remand, or if just like having some fun games of magic.
Then we have the Aggro build:
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
Instants (13)
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Opt
4 Vapor Snag
4 Wizard's Lightning
4 Faithless Looting
2 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Serum Visions
Creatures (16)
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Spell Pierce
4 Young Pyromancer
This deck capitalizes on the efficient burn given with red and the mighty draw engine of faithless looting and bedlam reveler used in mardu pyromancer/midrange, a deck which is arguably tier 1 right now. The aggro build is very focused on burning your opponent out of the game with lightning bolt and all it's knock offs, while drawing more copies of them, which is nice since it means you dont need your creatures as much to win. Play this build if you like drawing cards and throwing bolts at your opponent.
I should also note that I feel the aggro build is more competitive, even if only marginally so.
For those curious about the green splash, I figured it would be wise since it doesnt have as many counters, that the deck have efficient ways to deal with things like leyline of sanctity, which is important since there is so much burn in the deck.