I also thought about playing a tiny splash of black for infernal tutor. Demonic tutor could be good, no?
Bingo!!! maybe this will balance the game more. Maybe Mastermind's Acquisition is better than Demonic tutor, The problem is the cost BB. I have used infernal tutor in 8rack and it has been great, but I only use 1 copy.
White splash a Pyro Prison list, and you get Sun and Moon. DrMarkB heads up that thread, and does a helluva job as the host. Hit him up
Sun and moon is not what I want, I just want some other color on the side, I do not want to change the main, I think main has been strong, much stronger than sun and moon, but I want to improve the responses of the side.
I think of putting some white on the deck to be able to use leyline of sanctity and removal of enchantments as well as rest in peace that punishes a lot of mardu pyromancer, jeskai, grixis, bgx and any decks use grave, what do you think? I played a tournament where I caught 3 mardu followed and lost for all of 2x0, it was sad. kkk
I made the same comment in the 8rack forum and the purists went crazy kekekeke, in the case the 8rack suffers for leyline and chalice, but face chalice without anything to do, leyline hoping in luck to buy 2-3 delirium skein is bad.
So I come to raise this question, the deck will continue to be pyro only the side that has a bit of white, my intuition is to improve the deck, I know that it is very beautiful, the whole red deck is pure but be logical we are denying a possible possibility of improve bad matches in favor of keeping purists in the red. I think that's bad.
I intend to do some testing this week if possible and share with you.
Bill Gergen is playing 8rack in Open of Starcity games, I think this 7-2 if anyone knows he would like to know which matches he missed. Cheering for him to go top8 and be champion.
Is Night of Soul's Betrayal worth it? 4 mana seems like a tough cost. I think I would rather play bridge or more board wipes, especially Damnation.
a while ago the deck played with 2x Is Night of Souls' Betrayal on the side, then began to appear decks with large creatures so had to fall out. But in the goal I'm playing and observing has a lot of small creatures deck, mardu pyromancer, humans have many creatures with resistance 1, affinity, elves, counter company, some D & T and etc.
I've been thinking since Sunday what I can improve on the deck placing 4x fulminator mage might turn out to be good against tron, eldrazi and jeskai decks. Azcanta put a question in my mind, I can not allow it to turn ground. But it is not certain that I will destroy it with fulminator, perhaps if I increase the amount of leyline of the void I prevent it from turning, but the problem that 8rack does not have many flexible slots, I can not replace surgical or else by leyline I remember one of the keys to Skred's victory in the GP was relic of progenitus, both in the semi final and in the end he picked up two control and skred decks that controlled the game with serious control.
I already played with 61 cards, being 1 surgical of main, to open a slot in the sideboard. It worked? until it fucnionou, but it is complicated to explain if it is worth it or not.
hey guys this weekend I played with version BW 8rack, I made small changes, in case I used 23 lands instead of 24, I added Infernal tutor. On the sideboard I took out the fragmentize and put in another 1x disenchant and put 1x Anguished Unmaking, I put out the ligering souls and put it in place 2x Night of Souls' Betrayal because of mardu pyromancer and affinity.
The matches:
1- vs Valakut - 2-0 is a quieter match, my opponent in g2 mulligan and this helped a lot.
2 - vs Jeskai Mentor - 2-1 this match was balanced I won the g1, I tried to get the counters out of the opponent's hand. in G2 I made a mistake I should have taken Spell Queller out of the opponent's hand and he was able to undo a major spell and played another Spell Queller and did not come removals, G3 I was taking care of throwing baits for my opponent to cancel and make room for me to play main magics as I played a surgical mana leak that was in the cemetery because I knew he had one in his hand forcing him to play the Spell Queller by spending the manas from there I played the smallpox that released the surgical and then just controlled the game.
3- vs Jeskai Control 0-2 This match was good so I could analyze what lies ahead with new teferi. G1 the opponent was able to play Secure the Wastes and made many tokens and was hitting them and with Celestial Colonnade, no chance. I even had Bontu's Last Reckoning for main but it did not come. G2 is where the game begins, it was well balanced, I managed to take many points of life from the opponent I used the infernal tutor to Anguished Unmaking and take off teferi instead of the field, but he lowered another teferi and along with azcanta bought many cards and I lost the game.
4 - vs Humans 0-2 I do not know how to explain this match, maybe the best explanation for the game would be luck, because in the G1 did not buy any finisher, I detonated all the lands and creatures of the opponent more after he recovered. G2 my removals did not appear so he lowered very fast and hit heavy, I bounced 3x Bontu's Last Reckoning and did not come. I've lost.
5 - vs afinnity - 2 -1 After a devastating G1 in which my opponent won with infect, G2 got by 3x mutavault and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth I was killing the creatures of the opponent and knocking with mutavault and even downloaded a rack. G3 has been controlling the game and killing the creatures of the opponent and removing the unwanted artifacts with disenchant and causing damage with rack and affliction.
in fact 3-2 really I would not win the match against jeskai control and this worries me because he bought many cards and teferi is very good, azcanta filters well the draws. For a moments I thought I really needed delirium skeins but the recovery of the opponent was so fast in buying cards that I would rather have the lingering souls to go undermining him 2 -3 life points that in the end made a difference. Maybe if I had the waste not I had bought more cards and done more stuff.
Disenchant and Anguished Unmaking have been very useful only to have more of an Anguished Unmaking think it is very loss of life.
The important thing is that with this white splash it leaves a window open for improvements on the deck that I think go testing over time.
Hello, how are the matchups for the grixis version (classic version with emrakul)? I play with this version and want to hone to see if I play a GP with it yet I have not decided.
Torgaar, Famine Incarnate, seems to be very interesting, how many copies do you think would enter the deck? or would it be side?
If you're talking about the newer lists we're discussing in this thread, I don't think they exist. As far as I know, I'm the only one really playing the Fateful Showdown build and I haven't recorded any vids, and the Torgaar build so far is just a twinkle in Gerry Thompson's eye.
scrying sheets is bad in 8rack, I play skred and I know the sheets work on it because we get a lot of mana and 8rack usually keeps 2-4 lands on the table, otherwise the skred behaves reactively and that It leaves me free to use the skills of the sheets. The 8rack on the other hand most of the time is proactive always trying to make the opponent discard something so we are always using mana, coupled with the fact that we use smallpox and we have few mars at the table we can not effectively use the sheets.
Also bad is the fact that the larger the amount of land nonblack, the greater the probality we will trade a turn without land black or hamper cast liliana or wrench mind
I know why I want to splash, it's because of leylines, chalices, and anything else that's going to be a rock in the way of 8rack. We do not just need good cards, we need efficient cards and that's exactly what we used to splash to meet the need of the deck. You talk so much about cost and you do not see how costly it can be to keep the monoblack platform, closing the range of possibilities that another color can bring. But okay I understand that it is difficult to change only that even with some splah the 8rack remains 8rack.
The deck remains the same as changing the 4-5 side slot, the deck is already using fetchlands because of the fatal push, the decks are not packed with shocklands only have only one BW and this is totally acceptable.
Well I'm going to continue with my idea BW 8rack who wants to contribute I'm open ears, there are a month and a few days until the GP and 8rack is at the top of the list, I want to arrive with the best possible version, balance disadvantages and improve the winrate of the others.
So I reaffirm that it is necessary to splash and I know how difficult it is to accept this. The fact that we use a splash does not necessarily represent a weakness. Delirium Skeins looks good for a mono color deck but it does not hit the target we want, it's not as effective. Chalice of the void or oblivion stone destroying all our permanents, all this is difficult for us. Even the big splash fear would be the loss of life because of the fetchs, but if we use fatal push we need fetch for the push to be efficient, so this is no longer a threat.
With regard to lingering souls, I'm not sure how far they need it, but I do not think it's bad either, it's something that we need to develop further. I believe that the best splash is still white, it meets what we need.
And I already share that the deck needs to splash. It's very cool the monoblack version, but I think a little splah will help us a lot against some matches.
I was thinking about the mardu pyromancer one of these days and I saw how similar it is to 8rack, it has a lot of discards, a lot of removal, in case the rack destroys the opponent's hand and the shrieking affliction and the rack help control the game because it the opponent in a trade off if you play the card or hold the card to not suffer damage, other than smallpox. The mardu holds the game with blood locking the lands and uses discards to draw key cards from the opponent's hand. In the matter of removal is positive point for the two. so why is mardu so far ahead of the rack? and that's what I want to develop, turn the rack into a deck as oppressive as mardu, bgx or DS.
so let's start with this version here, which I found very interesting:
Hello guys!! this month I will try to share as much as possible in order to try to develop the deck more and more because I intend to play the GP in July. I still do not know if I go with 8rack he is in my preferences, but I find the deck with great potential, so I ask your help so we can develop the guide, with statistics and machtups.
Hi, how's the match versus jund bbe and mardu pyromancer?
Have you played against UR Breach yet? how to tackle this deck.
and one more doubt: do not you think simian guide spirit is better than a mundo Stone? because you can do blood turn 2 or even 1.
some thoughts...
1 -I think the deck must have at least 1 magus of the moon from main because we need blood moon on turn 1, blood on turn 1 can set the course of the game.
2 - With glorybringer from main or another dragon like stormbreath (my favorite) from main we can re-use the original name that comes from legacy: dragon stompy kekekekekekek
3 -I think using 2 or more spellkite will help the deck.
4 - Molten rain is fantastic.
5 - I still can not reconcile glorybringer and 4 bridges on the deck is illogical if it is working is why magic is crazy !!! kekekeke
finally, I will play today an event that are predicting 6 rounds I will post the result later. my list follows the one from Russ with the exception that I use 2 walking ballista and 1 magus of the moon.
kkkk would it be too risky to use Orcish Librarian?
Bingo!!! maybe this will balance the game more. Maybe Mastermind's Acquisition is better than Demonic tutor, The problem is the cost BB. I have used infernal tutor in 8rack and it has been great, but I only use 1 copy.
Sun and moon is not what I want, I just want some other color on the side, I do not want to change the main, I think main has been strong, much stronger than sun and moon, but I want to improve the responses of the side.
I made the same comment in the 8rack forum and the purists went crazy kekekeke, in the case the 8rack suffers for leyline and chalice, but face chalice without anything to do, leyline hoping in luck to buy 2-3 delirium skein is bad.
So I come to raise this question, the deck will continue to be pyro only the side that has a bit of white, my intuition is to improve the deck, I know that it is very beautiful, the whole red deck is pure but be logical we are denying a possible possibility of improve bad matches in favor of keeping purists in the red. I think that's bad.
I intend to do some testing this week if possible and share with you.
a while ago the deck played with 2x Is Night of Souls' Betrayal on the side, then began to appear decks with large creatures so had to fall out. But in the goal I'm playing and observing has a lot of small creatures deck, mardu pyromancer, humans have many creatures with resistance 1, affinity, elves, counter company, some D & T and etc.
I've been thinking since Sunday what I can improve on the deck placing 4x fulminator mage might turn out to be good against tron, eldrazi and jeskai decks. Azcanta put a question in my mind, I can not allow it to turn ground. But it is not certain that I will destroy it with fulminator, perhaps if I increase the amount of leyline of the void I prevent it from turning, but the problem that 8rack does not have many flexible slots, I can not replace surgical or else by leyline I remember one of the keys to Skred's victory in the GP was relic of progenitus, both in the semi final and in the end he picked up two control and skred decks that controlled the game with serious control.
I already played with 61 cards, being 1 surgical of main, to open a slot in the sideboard. It worked? until it fucnionou, but it is complicated to explain if it is worth it or not.
one more idea BW version
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18856&d=318028&f=MO
The matches:
1- vs Valakut - 2-0 is a quieter match, my opponent in g2 mulligan and this helped a lot.
2 - vs Jeskai Mentor - 2-1 this match was balanced I won the g1, I tried to get the counters out of the opponent's hand. in G2 I made a mistake I should have taken Spell Queller out of the opponent's hand and he was able to undo a major spell and played another Spell Queller and did not come removals, G3 I was taking care of throwing baits for my opponent to cancel and make room for me to play main magics as I played a surgical mana leak that was in the cemetery because I knew he had one in his hand forcing him to play the Spell Queller by spending the manas from there I played the smallpox that released the surgical and then just controlled the game.
3- vs Jeskai Control 0-2 This match was good so I could analyze what lies ahead with new teferi. G1 the opponent was able to play Secure the Wastes and made many tokens and was hitting them and with Celestial Colonnade, no chance. I even had Bontu's Last Reckoning for main but it did not come. G2 is where the game begins, it was well balanced, I managed to take many points of life from the opponent I used the infernal tutor to Anguished Unmaking and take off teferi instead of the field, but he lowered another teferi and along with azcanta bought many cards and I lost the game.
4 - vs Humans 0-2 I do not know how to explain this match, maybe the best explanation for the game would be luck, because in the G1 did not buy any finisher, I detonated all the lands and creatures of the opponent more after he recovered. G2 my removals did not appear so he lowered very fast and hit heavy, I bounced 3x Bontu's Last Reckoning and did not come. I've lost.
5 - vs afinnity - 2 -1 After a devastating G1 in which my opponent won with infect, G2 got by 3x mutavault and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth I was killing the creatures of the opponent and knocking with mutavault and even downloaded a rack. G3 has been controlling the game and killing the creatures of the opponent and removing the unwanted artifacts with disenchant and causing damage with rack and affliction.
in fact 3-2 really I would not win the match against jeskai control and this worries me because he bought many cards and teferi is very good, azcanta filters well the draws. For a moments I thought I really needed delirium skeins but the recovery of the opponent was so fast in buying cards that I would rather have the lingering souls to go undermining him 2 -3 life points that in the end made a difference. Maybe if I had the waste not I had bought more cards and done more stuff.
Disenchant and Anguished Unmaking have been very useful only to have more of an Anguished Unmaking think it is very loss of life.
The important thing is that with this white splash it leaves a window open for improvements on the deck that I think go testing over time.
Torgaar, Famine Incarnate, seems to be very interesting, how many copies do you think would enter the deck? or would it be side?
About Fateful Showdown What do you guys think?
Also bad is the fact that the larger the amount of land nonblack, the greater the probality we will trade a turn without land black or hamper cast liliana or wrench mind
The deck remains the same as changing the 4-5 side slot, the deck is already using fetchlands because of the fatal push, the decks are not packed with shocklands only have only one BW and this is totally acceptable.
Well I'm going to continue with my idea BW 8rack who wants to contribute I'm open ears, there are a month and a few days until the GP and 8rack is at the top of the list, I want to arrive with the best possible version, balance disadvantages and improve the winrate of the others.
With regard to lingering souls, I'm not sure how far they need it, but I do not think it's bad either, it's something that we need to develop further. I believe that the best splash is still white, it meets what we need.
I was thinking about the mardu pyromancer one of these days and I saw how similar it is to 8rack, it has a lot of discards, a lot of removal, in case the rack destroys the opponent's hand and the shrieking affliction and the rack help control the game because it the opponent in a trade off if you play the card or hold the card to not suffer damage, other than smallpox. The mardu holds the game with blood locking the lands and uses discards to draw key cards from the opponent's hand. In the matter of removal is positive point for the two. so why is mardu so far ahead of the rack? and that's what I want to develop, turn the rack into a deck as oppressive as mardu, bgx or DS.
so let's start with this version here, which I found very interesting:
http://manadeprived.com/nearly-top-8-rack/
Have you played against UR Breach yet? how to tackle this deck.
and one more doubt: do not you think simian guide spirit is better than a mundo Stone? because you can do blood turn 2 or even 1.
1 -I think the deck must have at least 1 magus of the moon from main because we need blood moon on turn 1, blood on turn 1 can set the course of the game.
2 - With glorybringer from main or another dragon like stormbreath (my favorite) from main we can re-use the original name that comes from legacy: dragon stompy kekekekekekek
3 -I think using 2 or more spellkite will help the deck.
4 - Molten rain is fantastic.
5 - I still can not reconcile glorybringer and 4 bridges on the deck is illogical if it is working is why magic is crazy !!! kekekeke
finally, I will play today an event that are predicting 6 rounds I will post the result later. my list follows the one from Russ with the exception that I use 2 walking ballista and 1 magus of the moon.