Is it possible to have a transformational sideboard? Play the normal Grixis Shadow in game 1 with TBRs. stubs, etc. Then plan to board out street wraiths, shadows, TBR and stubs and just turn into grixis control postboard (when playing the grindy matchups)
I think you can do a little bit of this, but taking out Shadows is too few threats and represents too many slots.
Stubborn Denial: I think that you can and often should take out Denial against grindy midrange, but that you really want the Negates against control. Taking out Shadow leaves them turned off too often.
Street Wraith: Probably the only time I think about taking out some of these is against UWR, because so often their win condition ends up being Bolts and Helixes. I don't consider it too bad against most other decks.
TBR: These can and should come out a lot of the time against removal heavy decks.
If you want to go full on control, you would basically need to dedicate most of your sideboard to it. It would probably entail some number of Jaces, Cryptics, Search for Azcanta, sweepers, removal. A lot of these cards are things you can very easily sideboard, but too many of them means you don't have space for other targeted sideboard cards. Things like Ceremonious Rejection are amazing tools in a lot of matchups, and I wouldn't want to clog half the sideboard with random middle of the road control cards over such efficient, high impact cards like this.
I usually advocate for not fully committing to playing their game, but not just leaving yourself dead to a single sweeper or removal spell. I'll use Jund and UWx control as two examples.
Grixis can easily go head to head with Jund. BBE is a great new tool, but in a lot of ways it just ends up being their analog to Snapcaster Mage, which was the biggest reason we had a good Jund matchup (both traditional GBx midrrange and Shadow) pre-BnR changes. The fact that they know now have haymakers at both 3 (LotV) and 4 (BBE) makes its a harder match than before, but they can still fold up to Push-Snap-Push all the same. Out of the list I posted earlier, Clique, both Lilianas, and Jace give us our own curve toppers. They have removal and discard to fight these, but it is reasonably close to a fair fight. I have seen a lot of people that seem to think the sky is falling and that BBE just makes Jund the untouchable Midrange king, but I don't see is as that clear-cut. Another very important point is land count. We have 17~19, and they have 24~25. This does add up over a long game.
That all being said, we are still better served to win a shorter game, and should aim to win quickly. Our cards are more efficient and we can take more game actions on the first 3 turns than they can. Our best strategy, as in most matchups, is to leverage this into an advantage. We shouldn't just go all in and expect to consistently win on turn 4/5, but we want to move into the midgame ahead.
For straight control, this is different. If the game goes long, they will almost always bury us. We can make ourselves better in longer games, but we can never just say, "okay, hardcore blue mirror, lets do it". We will lose a huge percentage of the time. Another issue is their mana denial plans. In a drag out game, the fact that they have things like Spreading Seas and Field of Ruin built into their cantrip suite and mana base gives them another great angle of attack, which is something that we simply won't have access to. As with Midrange, though, we can do more things, and more powerful things, on the first few turns. While they are durdling around with Search for Azcanta and Spreading Seas, we can find, land, and protect threats. There will be games when they have 3 or 4 answers in a row and we just die. This can't be helped. On the other hand, there will also be games where they spend cards on things like Search that never become relevant, or only have awkward removal like Detention Sphere, or can only hope to win off of a Supreme Verdict which leaves them vulnerable to single Thoughtseize or Collective Brutality.
Boarding in 2 Jaces and 2 Cryptic Commmands and hoping to just go toe-to-toe will not work, but playing your normal game for three turns, forcing them to use time and resources to answer an early wave, and then slamming a Liliana or Jace either after a Verdict or as the haymaker to solidify an early lead can definitely set you up to win.
Another really, really good card in these matchups is Fulminator Mage. It looks innocuous and seems like it should be targeted at Tron, but I have won plenty of games trading a single Fulminator for a Celestial Purge and a Collonade or an Abrupt Decay and a Raging Ravine. It is rarely a good enough clock on its own, but it generally trades very well. This can be enough to keep them off balance for long enough to set up for a zombie fish to beat them to death.
Anyone else playing? I imagine it is a bit of a hike for most but its only a short ride from Tokyo, and despite my adventures in some different variations of decks (though I never leave home without my trusty Thoughtseizes), I think I am finally settling back on GDS, which is probably just my favorite deck of all time (though Legacy DnT gives it a run for it's money). With Scarab Gods and Harnessed Lightings on one side and a dedicated Storm Trooper on the other, our Grixis overlords will certainly be pleased.
Both before and after the BnR update I did some experimenting and played a good amount of Traverse Shadow, including Bloodbraid Elf versions. I think both of these decks are quite good, and it has actually seemed like Fatal Push has been slight less common recently so Tarmogoyf is in a relatively good spot all things considered. However, if Jund with BBE will be running around then I want my Snapcaster Mages, and I also have more reps with this than any other build, which is big over so many rounds. I have played around with Baubles a little bit and my time with Traverse has convinced me that the card is just great, but with 3 Denials and 4 Snapcasters I still really like Opt.
Throwing in some pictures of the deck as of yesterday for value, partially because of my pride and joy foil JPN Shadows. Please excuse the ENG Snapcasters and EMA Jace ^^
This is probably within 2 or 3 cards of what I will end up registering on Friday. I am heavy on both TBR and Planeswalkers in the 75. The Battle Rages are panic buttons for bad matchups and also give some explosive power for the unfair decks and big mana. They also help against nonsense like Dredge without needing explicit hate. The Planeswalker suite and Clique are raw card power for midrange and control. Abrade is a fairly non-standard choice but the versatility is great. Its one of the best cards possible againt Aether Vial decks, and one spell that kills Mirran Crusader, Hollow One, Chalice of the Void, and Ensnaring Bridge represents a lot of value out of one slot.
Best of luck to anyone else who may be playing here or elsewhere this weekend!
against mardu pyromancer, wouldn't you need TBR to punch through the tokens?
This is a very tricky one. TBR is good against go-wide strategies, but it is bad against removal. Any or all of these philosophies could be correct:
They have tokens, particularly Lingering Souls tokens. Once they go wide they are better on both offense and defense than we are. We need TBR to break through and its the best option we have to win the matchups.
They are a Terminate/ Fatal Push/ Dreadbore deck. TBR is a liability. It can lack targets completely, and lead to huge blowouts. We can't afford the risk of dead cards or card disadvantage in a grindy matchups.
TBR is an option, but there are better ways of fighting. Liliana the Last Hope is good against both removal and tokens. We want it anyway against midrange and barring Bolt or Dreadbore it generally cleanly answers a Lingering Souls. Izzet Staticaster kills all of their little dudes. Pyroclasm and Kozilek's Return are also better options that we generally have available, and unlike Junk with Souls - which sometimes just draws Goyfs and Ooze - they will almost always be effective.
Mardu is a bad matchup, so we should go for the jugular and try to kill them before they grind us down with Reveler and Souls. TBR is the best way to do this. We should try to avoid jamming it into removal as much as possible, but we need to go fast and kill them before they set up.
How good TBR is depends entirely on how you sideboard. If we have the full complement of Thoughtseize, Inquisition, and Stubborn Denial, we ran reliably punch a hole for it and protect our creatures. If we sideboard these out and decide to go more midrange/grindy, then we can't expect to use it safely and effectively.
I've played around with Abrupt Decay in the main too, I think it is a perfectly legitimate option. I eventually ditched it to up the Bolt count, but I put 2 in the side. Againt Boggles, Ponza, and Abzan it should be solid. I played against Boggles last week and Abrupt Decay for the Daybreak Coronet blowouts was excellent. It can be slightly expensive and color sensitive but the versatility is excellent. Back to Nature seems narrow but there is no doubt that it is super high-impact if you see good matchups for it. Be careful with Engineered Explosives, is it a straight blank off of Bloodbraid unless you want to hit tokens. I do think it is an excellent SB card, but beware of the cost.
@pass8054
I haven't tried Vessel. My gut reaction is that it feels expensive, but it can find a lots of types and will be instant Delirium in a lot of cases. I won't take all the credit for making this because I took ideas from a lot of places and definitely copied from other people/decks, but I am pretty happy with how it came together and I am really interested in what will happen if the internet hive mind can get some nice testing and innovation going.
I'll throw another vote towards this deck being easier to play that 4/5c. My main reason for trying to hammer down what I want to be doing in Modern is because I am in the Modern seat for GP Kyoto in a few weeks. I played Grixis Shadow for a long time, and also played some Traverse before the BnR changes. I was basically set on playing one of those two since my team was set, but then the format had a stick of dynamite thrown at it so I have to reconsider a bit. I am sure I could just tune Grixis and probably do well, but BBE has been too good of an option to ignore. It may end up that I don't play it moving forward, but dismissing it ouright without testing is very clearly wrong. I do definitely want to stick in my Thoughtseize wheelhouse because it's what I like and what I am used to.
Playing something that can be proactive and aggressive will definitely be a big help in a long tournament. In addition, I can get more advice on play and deckbuilding from teammates about this because it is much more straightforward. If I try to talk to them about whether I want a Stomping Ground or not or what the best sideboard Traverse target is they can give general impressions but neither will have a lot of specific insights, whereas this requires a little bit less dedicated knowledge. I have already bounced some decklists off them and gotten some nice feedback.
"Do you have 3~4 mana? Yes? Then get a Bloodbraid Elf" is also just a really simplified version of trying to figure out what to do with Traverses.
I will agree that you don't often want the basic mountain in your opening hand, but I think you do need/want it in the deck. The deck is quite red heavy, and also needs 4th untapped mana later on. With normal Shadow you will often play three shocks but then slow down later on and put them in tapped to play a bit more carefully, and the deck doesn't have a lot of 4-mana plays to begin with. Bloodbraid Elf and Lightning Bolt are two of the big reasons to play this deck, so you want to be able to play them with flexibility and on time. This deck also sometimes secretly loves getting Pathed to Exiled, because BBE and Command get quite mana hungry and having three basics gives you better options here. I would consider Grim Flayer one of the only big arguments against the mountain, but it doesn't overtake the other issues. There are no maindeck Abrupt Decays or Lilianas, and most of the removal is at least partially red.
I actually do think there could easily be merit to the second Blood Crypt (I have always liked the second Blood Crypt in Grixis Shadow for an extra fetchable), but my instinct would be to replace a fetch, not the mountain.
I don't think Architects of Will is completely unreasonable, especially because it is also a creature, but Bauble costing zero mana while this costs 1 is a huge plus. In addition, the selection off of Bauble is very important. It is great with the all of the fetchlands in the deck, especially with the added 4 drops. Definitely interested to hear about your thoughts if you do test them out.
I will say that if you add architects then you probably want to find room for a Breeding Pool, probably in place of a Bloodstained Mire. Everyone knows that casting Street Wraith is never plan A, but it does happen. Architects not having Swampwalk hurts, but there are times when a Hill Giant would be better than a random card.
@dcovino
Thanks for the feedback, it is super helpful to have some other people give it a whirl and add some other perspectives.
I really like Grim Flayer so I am definitely happy to play it, but I am not sure of the exact number of creatures you want to play. Adding the elves already bumps the threat density up from normal Shadow, but having more for turn 2 is something to think about.
I also think the mana base feels quite good, I am pretty confident you want the basic mountain even if you don't love it in your opening hand sometimes. It matters not only against Field of Ruin but also against Burn, Affinity, and also control decks with Lightning Bolt.
You are right that Shadow often doesn't come out as big or as quickly in this deck. I still tend to just fetch-shock early against anything but burn, but you can still maintain pretty good closing speed even without being super cavalier with your life total. Also, as you mentioned, this decks Goyfs are massive and you have more burn than normal so it can often balance out.
I am also not sure about some of the sideboard. I am a bit sketchy on Jund Charm but it was fine as a Pyroclasm effect. There is value to the graveyard hate side of it but a three mana Tormod's Crypt is unspectacular (if you want that effect plus extra Rakdos Charm could be better, or just Nihil Spellbomb). I haven't gone as far as adding enchantment Blood Moons, but Magus as a Traverse target has been a nice option. I could definitely get behind more Collective Brutalities, because Burn is close but tricky and resolving a Brutality usually pushes you over the edge. Extra Duresses is also a boon against combo and control, where you want less removal but these can still work as reach. I haven't tried TBR yet but I think it is worth a shot. I agree that sometimes this is the best sideboard plan against random nonsense. I have played Grixis Shadow with zero graveyard hate and just planned to trample over. Planeswalkers would also bump the power level up, but Fulminator Mages also work pretty well in a lot of the same matchups, especially with so many Kolaghan's Commands.
I am pretty happy with the core shell of the deck, but there is still a lot to play around with and I have almost certainly made a few mistakes somewhere. Chaining Bloodbraid Elves and punching people in the face with them, however, is definitely something I will be trying to do quite a bit of in the near future.
List looks great geneyquakes. With 19 lands did multiple BBEs ever get stuck in your hand?
Any thoughts on dropping a land and a BBE and adding 2 more relevant spells? (Maybe TBR) I could see also going down to 2 K Commands and adding a 3rd cheaper spell.
It would go back to the 18 lands plan (which has always felt like borderline too many) and gives you 1 less clunky spell to get caught in hand.
There were certainly times when I didn't cast it right on time on turn 4, but I haven't really felt like they clogged up the hand. You have to adjust how you play compared to other builds. You get lands with Traverse more often. Also, whereas you would often shuffle away a third land on a turn one Bauble Scry in a normal hand, you are more likely to keep it especially with BBE or Command in hand. I do think that trimming to 3 BBE is worth thinking about, but once you have 4 mana it is just he best card in the deck. You want to draw it every turn, and you search for it with every Traverse.
That looks awesome. Did you ever miss TBR or is the non-bo with BBE too much to even consider bringing it in?
It can be a nonbo, but it is definitely powerful enough to consider. Bauble is the worst Cascade hit, but its not too bad because it is still an extra card. It is obviously worse than a Goyf or Command but it is not like cascading into a counterspell or an x-spell. TBR in the main would represent a Cascade hit that does literally nothing if you don't have a creature. I'm not sure I like that but it could also just represent enough speed and power that it is fine. There are also 2 Dreadbore and 2 Fatal Push in the main, along with 4 Thoughtseize, so it is not as if BBE having less than a 100 percent certain hit rate is completely unacceptable. You want to dodge it, but there is at least some wiggle room.
I certainly did want TBR in a few spots. I actually played the deck almost unchanged yesterday with a Ghor-Clan Rampager in place of the second Flayer. This isn't quite the same thing but it might be a reasonable middle ground. I also think that there is merit to having 2 or 3 copies of TBR in the side. Against removal heavy decks where your turn two Goyf often dies, you probably don't want TBR anyway. Against Affinity, Storm, Tron, Valakut and the like - matches where you very much want Battle Rage - your turn two and three creatures are much more likely to be alive when elf flips over a TBR on turn 4, and this will quite often represent lethal.
If you're playing BBE I think you have to either play 19 lands or play 18 and 4 manamorphose.
@whocansay- it's possible that TBR is just so powerful that it's still worth including in the 75. The deck hasn't really been figured out enough yet to know. TBR is only a nonbo with BBE if it is the only creature you have. If you play goyf on turn 2, you're likely setting up a near lethal attack on turn 4 with TBR.
Sidenote:
BBE is way too much fun to play in paper, I feel like I've developed a mild a gambling addiction...
Is it really worth lowering life total, playing a bunch of cantrips/cards that interact badly with BBE, just to have traverse + shadow, with no TBR? TBR is what makes traverse shadow a good deck in this format, IMO. If shadow ever got out of hand, I think TBR is the card they could ban to neuter the deck. You can configure the deck to attack from multiple axis; hand disruption, removal, counterspells, etc, but TBR gives the deck the combo finish it needs in practically every single non-midrange matchup. How can you win consistently with this deck in modern, without TBR? BBE is a great card, I'm still not convinced it belongs alongside death's shadow/traverse.
I agree with a lot of this, but I have a few points I would like to point out. I have TBRed plenty of people in my day and I understand how good it is, but I don't think you automatically need to it for Death's Shadow to be a good threat.
I think my lines of thinking in making deckbuilding decisions vary from what you are talking about. This is hard to explain clearly, but I will give it a whirl. For starters, this isn't built as a Death's Shadow deck, it is built as a Traverse the Ulvenwald deck, and in reality Shadow is the tertiary threat. The central threat is actually Tarmogoyf (I will digress a moment and point out that I realize the list I posted only had 3 and that might make me look like an idiot), and the top end payoff - and what basically every Traverse tutors for turn 3 or later - is Bloodbraid Elf. Normal Traverse Shadow and Grixis Shadow certainly make deckbuilding decisions (Baubles, Thought Scours, etc) to match their engine cards and secondary threats, but at the end of the day they are Death's Shadow decks at their core. This deck is different. My top priorities are Traverse, Tarmogoyf, and Bloodbraid Elf. I want my Goyfs XXL, and I want Traverse consistently turned on. The super obvious addition here is Bauble, but the sneaky secondary enabler is Street Wraith. It looks like a Shadow enabler, and of course it is, but that is not its only job. The next piece of the puzzle is Thoughtseize. It is still the best card in Modern, and in particular it is the best turn 1 play in modern. For our Traverse/Goyf plan, I want Street Wraith, I want Thoughtseize, and I want fetchlands and shocklands for the color-hungry manabase. If I am already here, it is a very short leap to make to get to Shadow. I want it as a 1 mana 4/4 or 5/5 that only gets better later in the game. It doesn't need to single-handedly carry the deck, but it is big and costs one mana. Playing Street Wraith just for Traverse is probably too much, but the fact that it lets you play another premium efficient threat next to Goyf makes it worth it.
You mentioned that there are cards that interact badly with BBE, but I just don't think that is as serious of an issue as you make it sound. Worst hit is easily Bauble, but it is still a card and not just a whiff. Nothing else is bad unless your removal spells are blank, but that doesn't stop Jund from playing Fatal Push, Terminate, and Maelstrom Pulse so I don't think it is a non-starter here either.
I also want to make clear that I don't necessarily think that this build is just clearly better than traditional Dark Confidant/Liliana Jund or 4 color Traverse Shadow. It is possible that I am right to play Tarmogoyf and BBE, but that not including Bob, Lili, and Raging Ravine is a mistake. I could also be right to play Shadow and Traverse, but that not including Stubborn Denial and Temur Battle Rage is a mistake. (I think this would be particularly true if the format is just completely overrun with unfair and uninteractive decks, and your mileage may vary but I don't see that to be the case right now.)
What I do know is that it is worth trying. The card advantage and board presence that Bloodbraid Elf creates is a tool that Shadow is often lacking. Thoughtseize and Stubborn Denial go a long way in protecting our plan, but Shadow is often just one Path to Exile or Supreme Verdict from getting buried. BBE does a lot in these matchups. This deck has more closing speed than normal Jund against things like Tron, and Traverse opens up some interesting sideboard options as well.
I am 9-2 in matches over the last two days with this. It doesn't mean it is perfect but there are good ideas here that are worth playing with.
Played this to a 6-1 finish in a Hareruya Cup yesterday. I'm still playing around with some things, especially the sideboard. Random thoughts:
Second Grim Flayer should probably just be a 4th Tarmogoyf, but I do really like Flayer. The selection is good, and Trample was relevant. But with Bauble, Seal, and Tarfire this deck's Goyfs get really big really fast, and Removal/Thoughtseize into Goyf-Goyf just murders people really quickly.
I liked the removal package. Slightly weak against really big creatures, but Shadow and 6/7 Tarmogoyf rumble with everything in Eldrazi and you can kill people before they ever get set up. Lightning Bolt killing all of Noble Hierarch, Dark Confidant, and Jace is excellent, and this deck is pretty aggressive so Bolt's go upstairs quite often.
With 4 drops and more and more Field of Ruin running around, three basics feels good. You generally still want to get shocks because of Shadow and the deep color requirements, but being able to get all three against Burn was great, and playing Bloodbraids on turn 4 and 5 against something like UWR without murdering your lifetotal is a big plus. Also, this deck uses the Lay of the Land mode on Traverse more than most Traverse decks, and keeping a one lander lets you go Overgrown Tomb to Traverse for Mountain, which casts everything in the deck except Flayer.
Collective Brutality is still the nuts against Burn, I might want more. Especially after going down to just 4 discard spells maindeck, have the extra Duresses in the board helps against both combo and control.
I didn't have a lot of use for Ancient Grudge all day but the card is still great. Used Cage against Company but never drew it. Jund and Golgari Charms are pretty versatile, they have seemed good but I could see moving to more powerful focused effects. I could also see an argument for a Rakdos Charm.
Traverse bullets were Magus, Fulminator, and Scavenging Ooze. Magus won a game outright against Tron. Might make sense to just play actual Blood Moons because Magus gets Bolted and Dismembered, but being able to Tutor for it is a significant plus. Fulminator Mages are great in a lot of matchups, Tron and Valakut are the obvious targets but I love them in Raving Ravine and Celestial Collonade matches. Ooze was great against that Soulflayer nonsense and I think it has enough general utility to be worth playing.
Matches:
Merfolk: 1-2
I think the pile of Lightning Bolts strategy is generally pretty good, but blocking was tough with Islandwalk and it often ends up being a race. I don't think this is a bad matchup, but my opponent was able to go Kira-Lord-Lord-Lord and take it. I was one more Bolt or one fetchland to Revolt a Fatal Push away from winning this matchup.
Green Tron: 2-1
I lost game one with lethal on board to a topdecked Tower into Ugin. #banurzastower
Game two the Magus in my opener won singlehandedly, and Game three I just punched them in the face really hard while they had natural tron but no payoff.
Grixis Soulflayer: 2-1
Soulflayer is basically the only card that worries me. If it has flying and hexproof I just die, but if I keep them off that all of their creatures are awful. G1 they topdecked flayer and flying-double striked me to death, game 2 Thoughtseize was great and they never got going, game three Scavenging Ooze was an allstar and racing was a breeze.
Boggles: 2-1
No LotV hurts, but outside of Grif's Boon and Spirit Mantle I can usually handle their dudes. Leyline in all three games was annoying, but my removal still found targets in Kor Spiritdancer and a timely Abrupt Decay to blow out some Daybreak Coronets kept me in control.
Junk Company: 2-0
Kitchen Finks was annoying but Goyf outsized everything, Flayer's trample was excellent, and BBE into Lightning Bolt over and over was excellent.
UWR Control: 2-1
Bloodbraid was the unsurprising all-star here. They really taxed their removal and counters. I dropped a game when Jace came down, Brainstormed into Snapcaster and Path, and then lived to take over the game, but BBE offering both speed and card advantage was excellent. The look on my opponents face when I Traversed for two copies of BBE on turn 3 basically tells the whole story about they feel about that card. They were also playing Spell Queller, and Lightning Bolt just murders that plan.
Burn: 2-0
Tarmogoyf, three basics, and timely Kolaghan's Commands and Collective Brutalities took down the match. G1 was a sweat, as I had an unusable Street Wraith in hand from turn 1 and was dead to a topdecked Bolt on the last turn, but was able to pull it out. Fully escalated Brutality in game two left him him close to helpless and I cruised from there.
Good for 6-1 and Top 8, where I got rekt by Burn. She had the play game one and started on Guide. I killed it but then got hit with Eidolon and a flurry of Bolts. The mana base was basically cooperating, but Goyf couldn't play both offense and defense so a race was just never going to end in my favor. Game two Rest in Peace turned off Traverse, then I flooded out pretty badly. BBE into Bolt kept me afloat but she stopped on 2~3 lands and just had a pile of Boros Charms and Helixes. Ideally I would obviously liked more Brutalities but I liked my sideboarding in general (though after the fact I realized I should possibly be playing Golgari Charm because RiP and Eidolon probably represent enough targets) and I don't think I made any big misplays. Sometimes they just have it.
Overall, the deck was a blast to play and I think there is definitely something to this build or something similar. If there are a lot of unfair decks running around then switching back to Stubborn Denial and Battle Rage could prove better, but this deck has power, speed, and a really nice mana base.
regarding the shadow mu vs control (UW, UWR or UB) how do you play the matchup? I try to discard and take their answers, but it seems like they have too many. Is it better to play draw go until you accumulate discard before playing the threats? I'm struggling with the MU. Our deck is threat light and if they answer it, it could be a few turns before we get another
This is a tricky one. "Take the answers" is probably a reasonable rule of thumb, but it really depends on your hand. It can be suicidal to just jam your only threat out unprotected, but you can't just sit back. If you try to play their game on even ground then eventually they will just bury you. UWR will just bolt you to death, UW will repeatedly Strip Mine you and planewalker you to death, and Grixis will start looping commands. Jace in all three of these decks just makes the 'sit back and wait' approach even worse.
When you play a discard spell, make sure you evaluate which answers matter. If you have a Tasigur Remand jumps way up. If you have a Liliana Celestial Purge is much more dangerous. If you are going to get Pathed, try to have it happen as soon as possible to get the free Rampant Growth. Accelerating your Snapcasters into flashing back relevant spells can put you on the front foot (Turn three snap plus Thoughtseize, take your removal, play Shadow, etc.). Jaces, Cryptics, and Snapcaster Mages are also generally good targets for discard. They have way more 2-for-1s than you, so turning them into 1-for-1 trades helps a lot. Supreme Verdict is another one to be careful of because Thoughtseize and possibly Collective Brutality are our only answers.
Their cards are much more powerful than ours, but ours are cheaper. They will very rarely be able to cast 5 spells on the first 3 turns, while we do that all the time. It is a very fine tightrope, but you have to balance being aggressive and leveraging your speed and tempo advantages while not opening yourself out to just losing the game on the spot to a single removal spell or sweeper.
I think trying to say 'Shadow is a Midrange deck' or 'Shadow is a tempo deck' isn't overly productive unless it is in the context of a specific matchup. (If your comments above are specifically about how to handle midrange matchups then you are all good^^ Not meant as a criticism but just my philosophy).
The deck is built to be flexible, as most Grixis decks and a lot of Snapcaster Mages decks often are. Against Ad Nauseam, Storm, or Valakut, I am definitely a tempo deck. Against Jund, I play midrange. The only card they have that isn't a one-for-one is Liliana, which is why its Thoughtseize target number one (miraculously surviving Bobs also technically qualify but thats comparatively rare. BBE will also change this math). Nothing in their deck can keep up with Snapcaster Mages. When you turn the power dial just a litttttle bit up to Junk with Lingering Souls or UWR with their own Snapcasters and Supreme Verdict, then you have to adjust and might just want to go under them. Against Affinity with Kolaghan's Command in the deck, you can very reasonably play control for extended periods (but admittedly still want to TBR them out ASAP).
I also think that its possible to change, say, half a dozen cards in your maindeck and have that wildly change how your play style and strategy will go. The decklists will end up in the same category on mtgtop8 and will look only cosmetically different to an untrained eye, but if you take the deck you posted and replace 2 TBR and 2 IoK with the 4th Snap, an LotV, and 2 K Commands then that changes how many matchups play out. It is hard to say which of these is "correct", and in the end I would argue that's an impossible call to make definitively.
No silver bullets here. You just have to outplay your opponent.
Jeskai Control
Out
4 Push
2 Dismember
In
1 TBR
1 Pyro
2 Pierce
2 Stub
Cut removal for counters and threats. Sticking a threat is crucial, so don't tap out for a threat unless you know it's safe.
What are your thoughts on not only leaving Temur Battle Rage in removal heavy matchups, but actually bringing it in against UWR?
I have usually found it to be a liability, when playing against Push and Path, and they end up being quite bad in multiples and one of these getting stranded in your hand can be miserable if you can't stick a threat.
For reference, using this list in the mirror I would want to get rid of either Denaial or TBR (lean towards TBR) in the main for Dismember and Young Pyromancer. Ideally I would want some three-drop heavy hitters here, because your opponents will do the same and the deck as constructed is a single two-for-one away from getting buried. You may just need to rely on TBR for speed to fight this. Against UWR I would do much of the same but I think going down to zero removal is just begging to get cheesed out by Collonade. I often heavily trim but don't go to zero.
Is the idea that with 8 discard spells and two maindeck TBR that you just commit to being as aggressive as possible? There is merit in going to TBR in tricky/disadvantaged matchups, so I certainly understand that. Thoughtseize-Thoughtseize-kill you can take down even the worst matchups. I understand not wanting to fully commit to out-midranging post-board UWR, but I don't think it takes all that many slots to really crank up your grinding potential (maybe three total between Commands and various Lilianas).
I do think there is plenty to think about here but interested in your thoughts on this.
Should we consider the amount of Inquisition of Kozilek since they can't hit either of these targets?
My instinct here is no. Discard is still good against these decks, and while we may want Thoughtseize more IoK is still excellent. We will need to prioritize taking the 4 drops with Thoughtseizes because they can't be answered cleanly otherwise, but interacting in the early turns is still essential.
Jace decks will have Paths, Mana Leaks, Spreading Seas, Snapcaster Mages, Logic Knots, and a whole host of other things that we want to hit. BBE decks have their own discard, Decay, Terminate, Dark Confidant, Liliana; literally every card in their deck but Bloodbraid. IoK doesn't take the curve-topping finisher, but it still hits the majority of the decks.
To put it another way, Jace coming down when we are behind or at parity is clearly bad, but if the first meaningful thing they do is tap out on turn 4 we are probably way ahead, even if their 4 drop is super high powered.
Granted , and you are basically right, but I'll counter a bit. First, for the purposes of my tournament tomorrow, its perfectly fine to have a few 'dedicated' slots because Fatal Push decks are a full 40 percent of the meta. The hurdle for the card to earn a sideboard slot or two for the GP is much higher. Also, about the body and timing. The bread and butter spells for Daredevil are the same as Snapcaster: Serum Visions, Thoughtseize, Fatal Push. I consider it a three-drop in most situations. This snagging and casting a Lingering Souls on 5 is basically never going to happen, because they would generally just flash it back themselves and I don't want 5 lands anyway. Ceiling is Kolaghan's Command most of the time, but an extra Terminate that leaves behind a Piker is fine. Also, the body is essentially the same as Snapcaster. Small, bad against all the big guys, bad against Liliana the Last Hope, good against Edicts. A small but relevant point is that the first strike means it is effective against tokens and opposing Snapcasters.
The new Mono-U Living End seems like a really good matchup for us. I've run a few games against a friend who built the deck, and dropped a single game of about 6-7 due to him having an absolute god draw. Other than that I was able to both pick apart his hand and counter any As Foretolds he was trying to land in order to secure the wins.
I don't think this is an unfavorable matchup, but it can be trickier than you think. The plus side is that if you have keep As Fortold off the table they basically can't win, but they have a couple good tools. Ancestral Vision has been a good counter to Thoughtseize decks for a long time, and that's still true here. We can often just invalidate most of their deck to make it irrelevant, but we don't have any draw threes so its possible that they play the old fasioned blue control 'bully them with extra cards' game. Another one that is easy to miss is Remand. Part of the reason Angler and Tasigur are so good is that people aren't really playing this card a lot, but its very good against Delve and in blue Mirrors.
I’d like to point out that against Living End, discard isn’t nearly as good as you’re thinking. They play 8 copies of their Cascade spells and ~16 1-mana draw spells. Not to mention Beast Within your guy after battle rage. I’d throw some games against that one, it doesn’t navigate like normal combo. You may play a Deaths shadow at 14 life with a fetch in play to Trump their yard flip.
You're 100 percent right. Thoughtseize or Inquisition is still your best turn one play, but you can't just rely on one discard spell and be in the clear. Stubborn Denial is another real winner here, especially if they are going to come with Beast Within and Ricochet Traps. Quick clock plus disruption is the best plan but it is undeniably tricky. You can lose just by cracking a fetch at the wrong time, and Gorilla powered Fulminator Mages can also wreak havoc.
Using Dire Fleet Daredevil is spicey as hell, i love it.
Have you thought about Engineered Explosives instead of Kozilek‘s Return? It’s a very flexible card and can get rid of Liliana in the mirror matches which is a big deal besides beeing good against Tezzeret, Elves, Humans and Abzan too.
Daredevil is a delight. The power level is definitely there for it to be showing up in Modern and Legacy in the right spots. I have been playing with it a bit in Legacy DnT as well. Snapcaster Mage is basically the reason I play Modern but when Daredevil is good its way more fun than even my buddy Thiago. If I know that literally 40 percent of my metagame is playing Fatal Push and Thoughtseize then she is a powerhouse option to have. Time will tell if it has long term staying power in decks, but IMO its certainly worth testing. The other bonus for right now is you still catch people off guard with it and get the 'wait what the hell does that card do?' looks.
EE is something I have on my radar in general but didn't really click for this specific tourney until you mentioned it. That might be a great sweeper option here because its flexible against the mirror and junk but also picks off Blood Moon, Chalice, and Spirits. That looks pretty worth of consideration.
I think you can do a little bit of this, but taking out Shadows is too few threats and represents too many slots.
Stubborn Denial: I think that you can and often should take out Denial against grindy midrange, but that you really want the Negates against control. Taking out Shadow leaves them turned off too often.
Street Wraith: Probably the only time I think about taking out some of these is against UWR, because so often their win condition ends up being Bolts and Helixes. I don't consider it too bad against most other decks.
TBR: These can and should come out a lot of the time against removal heavy decks.
If you want to go full on control, you would basically need to dedicate most of your sideboard to it. It would probably entail some number of Jaces, Cryptics, Search for Azcanta, sweepers, removal. A lot of these cards are things you can very easily sideboard, but too many of them means you don't have space for other targeted sideboard cards. Things like Ceremonious Rejection are amazing tools in a lot of matchups, and I wouldn't want to clog half the sideboard with random middle of the road control cards over such efficient, high impact cards like this.
I usually advocate for not fully committing to playing their game, but not just leaving yourself dead to a single sweeper or removal spell. I'll use Jund and UWx control as two examples.
Grixis can easily go head to head with Jund. BBE is a great new tool, but in a lot of ways it just ends up being their analog to Snapcaster Mage, which was the biggest reason we had a good Jund matchup (both traditional GBx midrrange and Shadow) pre-BnR changes. The fact that they know now have haymakers at both 3 (LotV) and 4 (BBE) makes its a harder match than before, but they can still fold up to Push-Snap-Push all the same. Out of the list I posted earlier, Clique, both Lilianas, and Jace give us our own curve toppers. They have removal and discard to fight these, but it is reasonably close to a fair fight. I have seen a lot of people that seem to think the sky is falling and that BBE just makes Jund the untouchable Midrange king, but I don't see is as that clear-cut. Another very important point is land count. We have 17~19, and they have 24~25. This does add up over a long game.
That all being said, we are still better served to win a shorter game, and should aim to win quickly. Our cards are more efficient and we can take more game actions on the first 3 turns than they can. Our best strategy, as in most matchups, is to leverage this into an advantage. We shouldn't just go all in and expect to consistently win on turn 4/5, but we want to move into the midgame ahead.
For straight control, this is different. If the game goes long, they will almost always bury us. We can make ourselves better in longer games, but we can never just say, "okay, hardcore blue mirror, lets do it". We will lose a huge percentage of the time. Another issue is their mana denial plans. In a drag out game, the fact that they have things like Spreading Seas and Field of Ruin built into their cantrip suite and mana base gives them another great angle of attack, which is something that we simply won't have access to. As with Midrange, though, we can do more things, and more powerful things, on the first few turns. While they are durdling around with Search for Azcanta and Spreading Seas, we can find, land, and protect threats. There will be games when they have 3 or 4 answers in a row and we just die. This can't be helped. On the other hand, there will also be games where they spend cards on things like Search that never become relevant, or only have awkward removal like Detention Sphere, or can only hope to win off of a Supreme Verdict which leaves them vulnerable to single Thoughtseize or Collective Brutality.
Boarding in 2 Jaces and 2 Cryptic Commmands and hoping to just go toe-to-toe will not work, but playing your normal game for three turns, forcing them to use time and resources to answer an early wave, and then slamming a Liliana or Jace either after a Verdict or as the haymaker to solidify an early lead can definitely set you up to win.
Another really, really good card in these matchups is Fulminator Mage. It looks innocuous and seems like it should be targeted at Tron, but I have won plenty of games trading a single Fulminator for a Celestial Purge and a Collonade or an Abrupt Decay and a Raging Ravine. It is rarely a good enough clock on its own, but it generally trades very well. This can be enough to keep them off balance for long enough to set up for a zombie fish to beat them to death.
Anyone else playing? I imagine it is a bit of a hike for most but its only a short ride from Tokyo, and despite my adventures in some different variations of decks (though I never leave home without my trusty Thoughtseizes), I think I am finally settling back on GDS, which is probably just my favorite deck of all time (though Legacy DnT gives it a run for it's money). With Scarab Gods and Harnessed Lightings on one side and a dedicated Storm Trooper on the other, our Grixis overlords will certainly be pleased.
Both before and after the BnR update I did some experimenting and played a good amount of Traverse Shadow, including Bloodbraid Elf versions. I think both of these decks are quite good, and it has actually seemed like Fatal Push has been slight less common recently so Tarmogoyf is in a relatively good spot all things considered. However, if Jund with BBE will be running around then I want my Snapcaster Mages, and I also have more reps with this than any other build, which is big over so many rounds. I have played around with Baubles a little bit and my time with Traverse has convinced me that the card is just great, but with 3 Denials and 4 Snapcasters I still really like Opt.
Throwing in some pictures of the deck as of yesterday for value, partially because of my pride and joy foil JPN Shadows. Please excuse the ENG Snapcasters and EMA Jace ^^
This is probably within 2 or 3 cards of what I will end up registering on Friday. I am heavy on both TBR and Planeswalkers in the 75. The Battle Rages are panic buttons for bad matchups and also give some explosive power for the unfair decks and big mana. They also help against nonsense like Dredge without needing explicit hate. The Planeswalker suite and Clique are raw card power for midrange and control. Abrade is a fairly non-standard choice but the versatility is great. Its one of the best cards possible againt Aether Vial decks, and one spell that kills Mirran Crusader, Hollow One, Chalice of the Void, and Ensnaring Bridge represents a lot of value out of one slot.
Best of luck to anyone else who may be playing here or elsewhere this weekend!
This is a very tricky one. TBR is good against go-wide strategies, but it is bad against removal. Any or all of these philosophies could be correct:
I've played around with Abrupt Decay in the main too, I think it is a perfectly legitimate option. I eventually ditched it to up the Bolt count, but I put 2 in the side. Againt Boggles, Ponza, and Abzan it should be solid. I played against Boggles last week and Abrupt Decay for the Daybreak Coronet blowouts was excellent. It can be slightly expensive and color sensitive but the versatility is excellent. Back to Nature seems narrow but there is no doubt that it is super high-impact if you see good matchups for it. Be careful with Engineered Explosives, is it a straight blank off of Bloodbraid unless you want to hit tokens. I do think it is an excellent SB card, but beware of the cost.
@pass8054
I haven't tried Vessel. My gut reaction is that it feels expensive, but it can find a lots of types and will be instant Delirium in a lot of cases. I won't take all the credit for making this because I took ideas from a lot of places and definitely copied from other people/decks, but I am pretty happy with how it came together and I am really interested in what will happen if the internet hive mind can get some nice testing and innovation going.
Playing something that can be proactive and aggressive will definitely be a big help in a long tournament. In addition, I can get more advice on play and deckbuilding from teammates about this because it is much more straightforward. If I try to talk to them about whether I want a Stomping Ground or not or what the best sideboard Traverse target is they can give general impressions but neither will have a lot of specific insights, whereas this requires a little bit less dedicated knowledge. I have already bounced some decklists off them and gotten some nice feedback.
"Do you have 3~4 mana? Yes? Then get a Bloodbraid Elf" is also just a really simplified version of trying to figure out what to do with Traverses.
I will agree that you don't often want the basic mountain in your opening hand, but I think you do need/want it in the deck. The deck is quite red heavy, and also needs 4th untapped mana later on. With normal Shadow you will often play three shocks but then slow down later on and put them in tapped to play a bit more carefully, and the deck doesn't have a lot of 4-mana plays to begin with. Bloodbraid Elf and Lightning Bolt are two of the big reasons to play this deck, so you want to be able to play them with flexibility and on time. This deck also sometimes secretly loves getting Pathed to Exiled, because BBE and Command get quite mana hungry and having three basics gives you better options here. I would consider Grim Flayer one of the only big arguments against the mountain, but it doesn't overtake the other issues. There are no maindeck Abrupt Decays or Lilianas, and most of the removal is at least partially red.
I actually do think there could easily be merit to the second Blood Crypt (I have always liked the second Blood Crypt in Grixis Shadow for an extra fetchable), but my instinct would be to replace a fetch, not the mountain.
I don't think Architects of Will is completely unreasonable, especially because it is also a creature, but Bauble costing zero mana while this costs 1 is a huge plus. In addition, the selection off of Bauble is very important. It is great with the all of the fetchlands in the deck, especially with the added 4 drops. Definitely interested to hear about your thoughts if you do test them out.
I will say that if you add architects then you probably want to find room for a Breeding Pool, probably in place of a Bloodstained Mire. Everyone knows that casting Street Wraith is never plan A, but it does happen. Architects not having Swampwalk hurts, but there are times when a Hill Giant would be better than a random card.
@dcovino
Thanks for the feedback, it is super helpful to have some other people give it a whirl and add some other perspectives.
I really like Grim Flayer so I am definitely happy to play it, but I am not sure of the exact number of creatures you want to play. Adding the elves already bumps the threat density up from normal Shadow, but having more for turn 2 is something to think about.
I also think the mana base feels quite good, I am pretty confident you want the basic mountain even if you don't love it in your opening hand sometimes. It matters not only against Field of Ruin but also against Burn, Affinity, and also control decks with Lightning Bolt.
You are right that Shadow often doesn't come out as big or as quickly in this deck. I still tend to just fetch-shock early against anything but burn, but you can still maintain pretty good closing speed even without being super cavalier with your life total. Also, as you mentioned, this decks Goyfs are massive and you have more burn than normal so it can often balance out.
I am also not sure about some of the sideboard. I am a bit sketchy on Jund Charm but it was fine as a Pyroclasm effect. There is value to the graveyard hate side of it but a three mana Tormod's Crypt is unspectacular (if you want that effect plus extra Rakdos Charm could be better, or just Nihil Spellbomb). I haven't gone as far as adding enchantment Blood Moons, but Magus as a Traverse target has been a nice option. I could definitely get behind more Collective Brutalities, because Burn is close but tricky and resolving a Brutality usually pushes you over the edge. Extra Duresses is also a boon against combo and control, where you want less removal but these can still work as reach. I haven't tried TBR yet but I think it is worth a shot. I agree that sometimes this is the best sideboard plan against random nonsense. I have played Grixis Shadow with zero graveyard hate and just planned to trample over. Planeswalkers would also bump the power level up, but Fulminator Mages also work pretty well in a lot of the same matchups, especially with so many Kolaghan's Commands.
I am pretty happy with the core shell of the deck, but there is still a lot to play around with and I have almost certainly made a few mistakes somewhere. Chaining Bloodbraid Elves and punching people in the face with them, however, is definitely something I will be trying to do quite a bit of in the near future.
There were certainly times when I didn't cast it right on time on turn 4, but I haven't really felt like they clogged up the hand. You have to adjust how you play compared to other builds. You get lands with Traverse more often. Also, whereas you would often shuffle away a third land on a turn one Bauble Scry in a normal hand, you are more likely to keep it especially with BBE or Command in hand. I do think that trimming to 3 BBE is worth thinking about, but once you have 4 mana it is just he best card in the deck. You want to draw it every turn, and you search for it with every Traverse.
It can be a nonbo, but it is definitely powerful enough to consider. Bauble is the worst Cascade hit, but its not too bad because it is still an extra card. It is obviously worse than a Goyf or Command but it is not like cascading into a counterspell or an x-spell. TBR in the main would represent a Cascade hit that does literally nothing if you don't have a creature. I'm not sure I like that but it could also just represent enough speed and power that it is fine. There are also 2 Dreadbore and 2 Fatal Push in the main, along with 4 Thoughtseize, so it is not as if BBE having less than a 100 percent certain hit rate is completely unacceptable. You want to dodge it, but there is at least some wiggle room.
I certainly did want TBR in a few spots. I actually played the deck almost unchanged yesterday with a Ghor-Clan Rampager in place of the second Flayer. This isn't quite the same thing but it might be a reasonable middle ground. I also think that there is merit to having 2 or 3 copies of TBR in the side. Against removal heavy decks where your turn two Goyf often dies, you probably don't want TBR anyway. Against Affinity, Storm, Tron, Valakut and the like - matches where you very much want Battle Rage - your turn two and three creatures are much more likely to be alive when elf flips over a TBR on turn 4, and this will quite often represent lethal.
1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Super Agree
I agree with a lot of this, but I have a few points I would like to point out. I have TBRed plenty of people in my day and I understand how good it is, but I don't think you automatically need to it for Death's Shadow to be a good threat.
I think my lines of thinking in making deckbuilding decisions vary from what you are talking about. This is hard to explain clearly, but I will give it a whirl. For starters, this isn't built as a Death's Shadow deck, it is built as a Traverse the Ulvenwald deck, and in reality Shadow is the tertiary threat. The central threat is actually Tarmogoyf (I will digress a moment and point out that I realize the list I posted only had 3 and that might make me look like an idiot), and the top end payoff - and what basically every Traverse tutors for turn 3 or later - is Bloodbraid Elf. Normal Traverse Shadow and Grixis Shadow certainly make deckbuilding decisions (Baubles, Thought Scours, etc) to match their engine cards and secondary threats, but at the end of the day they are Death's Shadow decks at their core. This deck is different. My top priorities are Traverse, Tarmogoyf, and Bloodbraid Elf. I want my Goyfs XXL, and I want Traverse consistently turned on. The super obvious addition here is Bauble, but the sneaky secondary enabler is Street Wraith. It looks like a Shadow enabler, and of course it is, but that is not its only job. The next piece of the puzzle is Thoughtseize. It is still the best card in Modern, and in particular it is the best turn 1 play in modern. For our Traverse/Goyf plan, I want Street Wraith, I want Thoughtseize, and I want fetchlands and shocklands for the color-hungry manabase. If I am already here, it is a very short leap to make to get to Shadow. I want it as a 1 mana 4/4 or 5/5 that only gets better later in the game. It doesn't need to single-handedly carry the deck, but it is big and costs one mana. Playing Street Wraith just for Traverse is probably too much, but the fact that it lets you play another premium efficient threat next to Goyf makes it worth it.
You mentioned that there are cards that interact badly with BBE, but I just don't think that is as serious of an issue as you make it sound. Worst hit is easily Bauble, but it is still a card and not just a whiff. Nothing else is bad unless your removal spells are blank, but that doesn't stop Jund from playing Fatal Push, Terminate, and Maelstrom Pulse so I don't think it is a non-starter here either.
I also want to make clear that I don't necessarily think that this build is just clearly better than traditional Dark Confidant/Liliana Jund or 4 color Traverse Shadow. It is possible that I am right to play Tarmogoyf and BBE, but that not including Bob, Lili, and Raging Ravine is a mistake. I could also be right to play Shadow and Traverse, but that not including Stubborn Denial and Temur Battle Rage is a mistake. (I think this would be particularly true if the format is just completely overrun with unfair and uninteractive decks, and your mileage may vary but I don't see that to be the case right now.)
What I do know is that it is worth trying. The card advantage and board presence that Bloodbraid Elf creates is a tool that Shadow is often lacking. Thoughtseize and Stubborn Denial go a long way in protecting our plan, but Shadow is often just one Path to Exile or Supreme Verdict from getting buried. BBE does a lot in these matchups. This deck has more closing speed than normal Jund against things like Tron, and Traverse opens up some interesting sideboard options as well.
I am 9-2 in matches over the last two days with this. It doesn't mean it is perfect but there are good ideas here that are worth playing with.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Swamp
Creatures
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Flayer
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Thoughtseize
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Fatal Push
2 Dreadbore
1 Seal of Fire
1 Tarfire
2 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Golgari Charm
1 Jund Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Played this to a 6-1 finish in a Hareruya Cup yesterday. I'm still playing around with some things, especially the sideboard. Random thoughts:
Matches:
Merfolk: 1-2
I think the pile of Lightning Bolts strategy is generally pretty good, but blocking was tough with Islandwalk and it often ends up being a race. I don't think this is a bad matchup, but my opponent was able to go Kira-Lord-Lord-Lord and take it. I was one more Bolt or one fetchland to Revolt a Fatal Push away from winning this matchup.
Green Tron: 2-1
I lost game one with lethal on board to a topdecked Tower into Ugin. #banurzastower
Game two the Magus in my opener won singlehandedly, and Game three I just punched them in the face really hard while they had natural tron but no payoff.
Grixis Soulflayer: 2-1
Soulflayer is basically the only card that worries me. If it has flying and hexproof I just die, but if I keep them off that all of their creatures are awful. G1 they topdecked flayer and flying-double striked me to death, game 2 Thoughtseize was great and they never got going, game three Scavenging Ooze was an allstar and racing was a breeze.
Boggles: 2-1
No LotV hurts, but outside of Grif's Boon and Spirit Mantle I can usually handle their dudes. Leyline in all three games was annoying, but my removal still found targets in Kor Spiritdancer and a timely Abrupt Decay to blow out some Daybreak Coronets kept me in control.
Junk Company: 2-0
Kitchen Finks was annoying but Goyf outsized everything, Flayer's trample was excellent, and BBE into Lightning Bolt over and over was excellent.
UWR Control: 2-1
Bloodbraid was the unsurprising all-star here. They really taxed their removal and counters. I dropped a game when Jace came down, Brainstormed into Snapcaster and Path, and then lived to take over the game, but BBE offering both speed and card advantage was excellent. The look on my opponents face when I Traversed for two copies of BBE on turn 3 basically tells the whole story about they feel about that card. They were also playing Spell Queller, and Lightning Bolt just murders that plan.
Burn: 2-0
Tarmogoyf, three basics, and timely Kolaghan's Commands and Collective Brutalities took down the match. G1 was a sweat, as I had an unusable Street Wraith in hand from turn 1 and was dead to a topdecked Bolt on the last turn, but was able to pull it out. Fully escalated Brutality in game two left him him close to helpless and I cruised from there.
Good for 6-1 and Top 8, where I got rekt by Burn. She had the play game one and started on Guide. I killed it but then got hit with Eidolon and a flurry of Bolts. The mana base was basically cooperating, but Goyf couldn't play both offense and defense so a race was just never going to end in my favor. Game two Rest in Peace turned off Traverse, then I flooded out pretty badly. BBE into Bolt kept me afloat but she stopped on 2~3 lands and just had a pile of Boros Charms and Helixes. Ideally I would obviously liked more Brutalities but I liked my sideboarding in general (though after the fact I realized I should possibly be playing Golgari Charm because RiP and Eidolon probably represent enough targets) and I don't think I made any big misplays. Sometimes they just have it.
Overall, the deck was a blast to play and I think there is definitely something to this build or something similar. If there are a lot of unfair decks running around then switching back to Stubborn Denial and Battle Rage could prove better, but this deck has power, speed, and a really nice mana base.
This is a tricky one. "Take the answers" is probably a reasonable rule of thumb, but it really depends on your hand. It can be suicidal to just jam your only threat out unprotected, but you can't just sit back. If you try to play their game on even ground then eventually they will just bury you. UWR will just bolt you to death, UW will repeatedly Strip Mine you and planewalker you to death, and Grixis will start looping commands. Jace in all three of these decks just makes the 'sit back and wait' approach even worse.
When you play a discard spell, make sure you evaluate which answers matter. If you have a Tasigur Remand jumps way up. If you have a Liliana Celestial Purge is much more dangerous. If you are going to get Pathed, try to have it happen as soon as possible to get the free Rampant Growth. Accelerating your Snapcasters into flashing back relevant spells can put you on the front foot (Turn three snap plus Thoughtseize, take your removal, play Shadow, etc.). Jaces, Cryptics, and Snapcaster Mages are also generally good targets for discard. They have way more 2-for-1s than you, so turning them into 1-for-1 trades helps a lot. Supreme Verdict is another one to be careful of because Thoughtseize and possibly Collective Brutality are our only answers.
Their cards are much more powerful than ours, but ours are cheaper. They will very rarely be able to cast 5 spells on the first 3 turns, while we do that all the time. It is a very fine tightrope, but you have to balance being aggressive and leveraging your speed and tempo advantages while not opening yourself out to just losing the game on the spot to a single removal spell or sweeper.
The deck is built to be flexible, as most Grixis decks and a lot of Snapcaster Mages decks often are. Against Ad Nauseam, Storm, or Valakut, I am definitely a tempo deck. Against Jund, I play midrange. The only card they have that isn't a one-for-one is Liliana, which is why its Thoughtseize target number one (miraculously surviving Bobs also technically qualify but thats comparatively rare. BBE will also change this math). Nothing in their deck can keep up with Snapcaster Mages. When you turn the power dial just a litttttle bit up to Junk with Lingering Souls or UWR with their own Snapcasters and Supreme Verdict, then you have to adjust and might just want to go under them. Against Affinity with Kolaghan's Command in the deck, you can very reasonably play control for extended periods (but admittedly still want to TBR them out ASAP).
I also think that its possible to change, say, half a dozen cards in your maindeck and have that wildly change how your play style and strategy will go. The decklists will end up in the same category on mtgtop8 and will look only cosmetically different to an untrained eye, but if you take the deck you posted and replace 2 TBR and 2 IoK with the 4th Snap, an LotV, and 2 K Commands then that changes how many matchups play out. It is hard to say which of these is "correct", and in the end I would argue that's an impossible call to make definitively.
What are your thoughts on not only leaving Temur Battle Rage in removal heavy matchups, but actually bringing it in against UWR?
I have usually found it to be a liability, when playing against Push and Path, and they end up being quite bad in multiples and one of these getting stranded in your hand can be miserable if you can't stick a threat.
For reference, using this list in the mirror I would want to get rid of either Denaial or TBR (lean towards TBR) in the main for Dismember and Young Pyromancer. Ideally I would want some three-drop heavy hitters here, because your opponents will do the same and the deck as constructed is a single two-for-one away from getting buried. You may just need to rely on TBR for speed to fight this. Against UWR I would do much of the same but I think going down to zero removal is just begging to get cheesed out by Collonade. I often heavily trim but don't go to zero.
Is the idea that with 8 discard spells and two maindeck TBR that you just commit to being as aggressive as possible? There is merit in going to TBR in tricky/disadvantaged matchups, so I certainly understand that. Thoughtseize-Thoughtseize-kill you can take down even the worst matchups. I understand not wanting to fully commit to out-midranging post-board UWR, but I don't think it takes all that many slots to really crank up your grinding potential (maybe three total between Commands and various Lilianas).
I do think there is plenty to think about here but interested in your thoughts on this.
My instinct here is no. Discard is still good against these decks, and while we may want Thoughtseize more IoK is still excellent. We will need to prioritize taking the 4 drops with Thoughtseizes because they can't be answered cleanly otherwise, but interacting in the early turns is still essential.
Jace decks will have Paths, Mana Leaks, Spreading Seas, Snapcaster Mages, Logic Knots, and a whole host of other things that we want to hit. BBE decks have their own discard, Decay, Terminate, Dark Confidant, Liliana; literally every card in their deck but Bloodbraid. IoK doesn't take the curve-topping finisher, but it still hits the majority of the decks.
To put it another way, Jace coming down when we are behind or at parity is clearly bad, but if the first meaningful thing they do is tap out on turn 4 we are probably way ahead, even if their 4 drop is super high powered.
Granted , and you are basically right, but I'll counter a bit. First, for the purposes of my tournament tomorrow, its perfectly fine to have a few 'dedicated' slots because Fatal Push decks are a full 40 percent of the meta. The hurdle for the card to earn a sideboard slot or two for the GP is much higher. Also, about the body and timing. The bread and butter spells for Daredevil are the same as Snapcaster: Serum Visions, Thoughtseize, Fatal Push. I consider it a three-drop in most situations. This snagging and casting a Lingering Souls on 5 is basically never going to happen, because they would generally just flash it back themselves and I don't want 5 lands anyway. Ceiling is Kolaghan's Command most of the time, but an extra Terminate that leaves behind a Piker is fine. Also, the body is essentially the same as Snapcaster. Small, bad against all the big guys, bad against Liliana the Last Hope, good against Edicts. A small but relevant point is that the first strike means it is effective against tokens and opposing Snapcasters.
I don't think this is an unfavorable matchup, but it can be trickier than you think. The plus side is that if you have keep As Fortold off the table they basically can't win, but they have a couple good tools. Ancestral Vision has been a good counter to Thoughtseize decks for a long time, and that's still true here. We can often just invalidate most of their deck to make it irrelevant, but we don't have any draw threes so its possible that they play the old fasioned blue control 'bully them with extra cards' game. Another one that is easy to miss is Remand. Part of the reason Angler and Tasigur are so good is that people aren't really playing this card a lot, but its very good against Delve and in blue Mirrors.
You're 100 percent right. Thoughtseize or Inquisition is still your best turn one play, but you can't just rely on one discard spell and be in the clear. Stubborn Denial is another real winner here, especially if they are going to come with Beast Within and Ricochet Traps. Quick clock plus disruption is the best plan but it is undeniably tricky. You can lose just by cracking a fetch at the wrong time, and Gorilla powered Fulminator Mages can also wreak havoc.
Daredevil is a delight. The power level is definitely there for it to be showing up in Modern and Legacy in the right spots. I have been playing with it a bit in Legacy DnT as well. Snapcaster Mage is basically the reason I play Modern but when Daredevil is good its way more fun than even my buddy Thiago. If I know that literally 40 percent of my metagame is playing Fatal Push and Thoughtseize then she is a powerhouse option to have. Time will tell if it has long term staying power in decks, but IMO its certainly worth testing. The other bonus for right now is you still catch people off guard with it and get the 'wait what the hell does that card do?' looks.
EE is something I have on my radar in general but didn't really click for this specific tourney until you mentioned it. That might be a great sweeper option here because its flexible against the mirror and junk but also picks off Blood Moon, Chalice, and Spirits. That looks pretty worth of consideration.