MTG Salvation

Quote from Nurmansk »

The sideboard defence grid is totally a meta call, my local meta is super greedy with no burn at all and low aggro count, (dredge wich is easily handled and some ur wizard), so the grid helps me vs blue moon, uw control, grixis shadow, and wizards. I might go back and use 1x trophy/nature's claim anyways.

So now my only question is if you have any suggestion for the 2 mainboard slots that i m freeing dropping crucible and map! i think i ll be boring and go +1 ensnaring bridge and +1 CB. But i d like some feedback! Smile

laaaastly, many thanks to all of you, this thread is super helpful and the archetype is great!!!!!

My experience with Defense Grid is that it sounds really good in theory, as a anti-control sideboard card, but in reality is often very underwhelming. I've found usually games go long enough that decks can just counterspell you while paying the grid cost anyway. I've since cut it from my boards for that reason.

I think dropping crucible and map for ensnaring bridge and brutality is entirely reasonable

Quote from Al_Z_Heimer »

I don't like Spellskite in the MB for the simple reason, that it's the only creature and gives your opponents an unnecessary target for all their dead Pushes and Paths. Apart from that I don't think you need protection in the mb at all. I only run Jars because they cost 0, help to empty the hand earlier, activate Opals and bigger Whirs earlier and free up SB slots. Apart from that it's still pretty much a dead effect in G1.

I find the spellskites pretty useful. Redirecting cryptic bounces, teferi -3s, valakut triggers, bolts to the face, just general blocking things like goblin guides. Often it can buy you a good amount of time. I'm also totally fine with them getting pathed

That said, in specifically a very push heavy meta they'd be pretty weak, but I honestly rarely play against push these days, so I think it's a solid maindeck choice. I've never really been sorry to have them, especially with how bad Welding Jars often are pre-board.

Thanks for all the advice.

The comments about time sieve vs Orb certainly makes a lot of sense. And I agree, pithing needle is so good, I almost want a 4th.

So far Glimmervoid hasn't been an issue, but switching a spellskite to a jar is a good hedge against future issues. Spellskite has been really nice though. Just solid generic protection.

Wear // Tear is a good idea to try, I could probably also try decay/trophy, but I do like the idea of wear//tear being a single coloured source.

I'll think about the Sai idea. I've still yet to have Sai be anything but a giant disappoint when I cast him, so I'm not really sold on the Sai plan.

So this is what I'm thinking about for GP Toronto coming up. I've also got a slightly different version with a fetch/shock manabase, serum visions over looting, welding jar over spellskite main. I've toyed around a bit with a Chalice of the Void version too, and while Chalice is really strong in some matchups, there are enough where it's not amazing that I thought I'd rather free up some space for cards like Collective Brutality



So I do like Collective Brutality and how it's rarely bad and works well with bridge. Battle at the Bridge is also just solid removal and lifegain vs burn. I also quite like the manabase that isn't fetch/shock, especially when you play against burn. I could see myself cutting inventors fair for maybe another island or something. There are some rare times you end up without black sources for a little longer than with a fetch/shock manabase, but I haven't had too many issues with that, and I think it's worth the painless manabase (aside from Spire which you don't often need to use for colours).

I've really liked Faithless Looting over Serum Visions. I like it digging a bit deeper immediately, and the way it can really help with Bridge. It comes at the cost of being a bit of a worse topdeck later, but I think that's ok

I'm not sold on going heavy on Nihil Spellbomb. I've found not enough matchups where it's really good (not much outside of dredge do I really love it), and those matchups generally are won by Bridge anyway

Witchbane Orb I don't love, but matchups like Scapeshift are so hard without it I'll keep one main, sometimes it helps survive a Liliana ultimate too.

Time Sieve could probably easily be something else. Spellskites also could be Welding Jars, but I do kinda like them

Sideboard I'm pretty happy with as well.

Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions, let me know.

I generally like running both, something like 2 Brutality and 1 Battle main, with more battle in the board. A nice hedge against problem creatures or faster decks

I agree that Battle at the Bridge is a very solid card. Potential to kill things of all sizes, lifegain is sometimes a really great bonus. I've killed Bobs, meddling mages, goyfs, Primeval Titans, 9/9ish Kor Spiritdancers, gave my own thopter -14/-14 just to gain like 14 life, etc.

Get outta here KCI! Time Sieve, you're back in!

I mean they still have 4 pacts they can go get Thar with, so my experience is I ego Titan, and then they pretty much play Thar the next turn and I lose, since I just can't beat a Thar in play really. Next time, I'll probably plan to hit Thar with my first Ego, and aim to deal with Titans in other ways

I always lose to Amulet Titan after I ego them. I think it's because I name Primeval Titan, while I need to be naming Ruric Thar and hoping to get another ego for the titan, or keep titan at bay with a bridge

Quote from TolariaWest »

A few comments have led me to wonder... I see everyone keeps 4 Mishra's Bauble come thick or thin. The 75 seems short on space to have all the best answers available because of the versatility of Whir. Is it possible Bauble is actually not the best thing? Like, if a list has 4 Bauble and 0 Nihil and 0 Pyrite, is it better with 2 Bauble and one of each bomb? Or even 0 Bauble and 4 bombs?

It's an interesting idea. Switching Baubles to 1 mana artifacts probably makes your Mox Opals a fair bit worse, might need to trim 1 or 2. I'm not really sure if it really makes Whir much worse. I tend to often not keep them around for use in Whirring, but it depends on the situation. Definitely late game it would often be nicer to be able to play a spellbomb and crack it to get the card immediately, rather than wait to get the card off a bauble. I've definitely had quite a few games where you're in a situation of "I need to draw Bridge or Whir to not die" and then you draw Bauble and you can still crack it immediately and hope for a whir, but a spellbomb could be nicer.

I might give it a try at some point soon, see how it feels.

I don't personally like the thopter Lantern hybrid at all. But that's more of a personal preference, I just find playing with or against lantern miserable, it's just a play style I hate

Quote from TolariaWest »

@Systrill: Glad to hear the list performed well for you! I'll be very interested to hear how you like your variant card selections over time. Tell me where you want the Nihil Spellbomb so much? You and The Nobodys both seem very fond of them, so I worry that I'm missing something when I keep passing them over. I think vs. humans I like Grid > Tezzeret because of Gaddok Teeg, and the fact that Tez can be a really awkward draw early, where bridge actually helps you considerably.

I definitely realized after that humans game that due to Teeg, Grid would have been better. My thinking at the time was Knight of Autumn can blow up Grid, but not Tezz. I totally forgot about Teeg.

As for the spellbomb, it was mostly a case of I didn't want the full 4 Bridges, and I felt Spellbomb might be the most useful thing to have in the place of one of the bridges. I've always been quite happy with how 3 bridges felt in the deck. Given that graveyard strategies are so popular I think spellbomb is a good option, and you can cycle it while using it's ability which is nice. Though most graveyard decks are fairly decent matchups due to bridge, so I'm not really sure I care about the spellbomb. Pyrite Spellbomb could be an option. It has the same issue where most decks it's good against are already good matchups, but it can help cleanup things like Thalias, Meddling Mages, Teegs, Maelstrom Wanderers, Noble Heirarchs, etc. These all being cards that can still cause headaches for us.

I do like Academy Ruins over the 2nd Fair. I had double legendary lands, and I don't find myself activating Fair all that often. Likewise I don't activate Ruins all that often, but it's another one of those cards that when it's good, it's GOOD. Like they blow up a Foundry and you just pick it back up and replay it. Or more often then try to blow up something and you save it with Jar, then pick the Jar back up. Really kinda forces them into spots where they have to wait to have multiple answers in a turn, which sometimes just let's you draw your own redundant backups.

After a couple poor runs through leagues with my typical BUG list, I picked up @TolariaWest's maindeck spellskite list for another league. I made a couple small changes, -1 Fair -1 Bridge +1 Academy Ruins +1 Nihil Spellbomb main, and -1 Revoker +1 Battle at the Bridge side.

Ended up going 4-1.
Beat Bogles, Dredge, Storm, and Spirits. Then sadly losing the final round against Humans.

Spellskite main was obviously bonkers vs bogles, easiest match ever.

I lost Humans when they named Tezzeret with Meddling Mage, played Stony Silence and RIP, and finally a Teeg locked my out of any win conditions since I didn't bring in the Aether Grids. I didn't want to go all in on alt-wincons because humans often relies primarily on Knight of Autumn and often doesn't play the enchantments. Sadly teeg locked out my plan to eventually draw into Battle at the Bridge to kill Meddling Mage and play a tezz in the same turn.

In the end it's only one league so far, but I really liked the Faithless Lootings and spellskites. Spellskite buying some time blocking, and even providing defense against noble hierarch beatdown felt great. 4 skite + 4 Jars seemed like overkill, but in matchups like dredge where I was hiding behind bridge + cage for awhile, drawing more skites and jars just quickly meant I had more protection than they had hate.

I also really like Grid. I'd played it in the past, but haven't for a long time. I forgot just how strong of a card it is.

The lootings also felt quite good. I was convinced I'd like Serum Visions more, but there are lots of times I kinda don't like serum visions, when you're just trying to empty your hand for bridge, sometimes a cantrip can feel pretty bad. Lootings helping to also empty your hand for bridge was pretty great.

4 Pithing Needle did feel like a lot, but I also didn't hate it. It's one of those cards that when it's good it's GOOD.

I think the main thing I feel I might want is some other answer to Stony Silence, in a destroy effect. Something like Trophy, Wear/Tear, or Abrupt Decay, maybe. I could see maybe cutting like 1 Needle, 1 Jar for a couple of those effects. Maybe something like move the Battle at the Bridge to the main, cutting a pithing needle, and then cut a jar from the side for 2 Abrupt Decay. I think with 4 Opals and 4 Rainbow lands splashing green in the board is easy.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts, I think I'm going to keep playing with this list, I think I like it more than my previous BUG style list

I've pretty much just written off the Tron matchup as unwinnable. I've found that to make the matchup any better than bad, you need to skew the deck basically into a different deck. One with Darksteel Citadel, Ghost Quarter, Crucible, Needle, Chalice, etc. As it is I just take the tools at my disposal that are good for other matchups, the Assassin's Trophys, Ego, sometimes discard, needles, and hope for the best. Best results are usually a little disruption into a fast Tezzeret making 5/5s. But the matchup is always quite bad imo.

Quote from dustycrumbz »

So I've been seeing a trend of UW maindecking RIP more and more, which makes me want to maindeck at least 1, maaaaybe 2 walkers (probably Tez). I know this is just 1 matchup, but it's not like we're maindecking an archetype-specific card like Defense Grid. Sure it can cause clunky situations when Bridge is the priority, but with a low number, it didn't happen a large amount of time when I last maindecked a Tez, plus maindecking a walker doesn't seem like a huge cost at the expense of warping the rest of our gameplan (I also still have a bottled cloister in the main which can help mitigate this issue).

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

I still pretty much always maindeck at least 1 Tezz. I know there are a lot of arguments against it, but I can't ever bring myself to cut down to 0. I also maindeck 2 Assassin's Trophy and am still reasonable happy with them

I try Chalice every once in awhile in the deck. It's pretty easy to make the deck work with Chalice by cutting the one drops. That said I've found Chalice to consistently not be worth that kind of change to the deck. Not enough matchups where it's stellar.