Oko is amazing regardless if you're pretty heavy into the combo or a more midrange build. He deals with a bunch of hate cards and can win the game all by himself really
I've gone back to 3x Leyline of the Void in my board, because I've been running into at least 2-3 Hogaak decks in every league again. Spellbomb and Cage just so rarely are enough vs Hogaak unfortunately
This has all happened before, and it will happen again. Pentad prism is bad! BAD I TELL YOU!
Considering the deck is pretty much entirely different and plays very differently from the prison days of old, I'm fine with revisiting old discarded ideas to see if it's any different now
I've seen some people praising Pentad Prism for speeding up the combo by a turn. Honestly, I've yet to have them do that. So far they've been fine, but underwhelming. They've never been particularly bad, or particularly good
Nothing crazy groundbreaking. Beat Dredge (2-1), UW Control (2-0), MonoU Tempo (2-1), and Hardened Scales (2-0)
Probably going to drop 1-2 of the Pentad Prisms for something else, maybe squeeze some Serum Visions back into there. Otherwise everything in the main felt good. Sideboard I didn't actually get to use the Cyclonic Rift, but I think I may swap the 2 blood moon for 2 Teferi and swap a Hallowed Fountain into the main.
Ya, Paradox Engine lets you combo with Urza even with a Stony Silence on the board. Apparently the guy who played that did that a few times. You do need a bit of luck to not hit a string of lands, especially early on, but then once you're rolling you should be able to play out your whole deck pretty much. Tap all your artifacts for mana, use Urza's 5 to cast anything, untap all those artifacts, probably netting mana each time to help for when you do hit lands off the ability.
I'm not sure it's the way to go, but it could well be, it's a nice option to have when everyone is hating on your thopter sword combo, and you just win with this instead
I like running Pyrite Spellbomb even without trawler since it's just a maindeck removal piece that can cycle for a card if we want. I've tried some Scrap Trawler recently and I do like it. It's got some nice points going for it. It can generate a lot of value sacing things to foundry or Sai and getting back Baubles, etc. It's also fulfills the slots's ability to win on the spot when you combo off with Urza by replaying Spellbomb over and over. Lastly, I haven't done it yet, but it does open up an ability to make infinite tokens without Urza, with Thopter Sword, Trawler and 2 Opals (one can be in the yard).
So far I still think I like Grid more, but I can see the appeal of Trawler. I'm just starting to try out Spine of Ish Sah in that slot right now
Thoughts on the Bridge from Below ban? I'd like to start playing again and have all but scalding tarns on the way to update the list. Do we go back to the toolbox with the potential return of a healthier meta? The current deck lists look super fun just not very reactive which really concerns me again the control matchup. Honestly control really kills the game for me. I understand it's necessity. I just hate it with a passion. I'm stubborn like that. Does it go back to being not as good? What you all think? Maindeck Tez fo life!
Wait what?! Archived? What does that mean?!
The Urza Sword lists that have been putting up results are quite good against UW Control as is. Thopter Foundry is pretty good against them. Engineer is really good against them as long as you don't get RiP'd, which they'll likely be playing less of. Urza is great against them, Sai is great against them. We have so many more threats now that it can be difficult for UW Control to answer them all. Overall I've been finding UW Control even before the Bridge ban to be a favourable matchup. Now if anything we can probably make it better since we can ditch the 4 Leylines in the board for a probably just a couple graveyard hate pieces, which opens a couple extra slots for other things. Teferi could be an option, thoughtseize is good against them, stuff like that.
To be honest, I think the heavily toolbox days are gone, it's generally just not needed and it's all about the combo
I'm on 3 Engineers myself. Engineer is one of the best cards in the deck, but I'm hesitant to go back up to 4 with just so much graveyard hate around.
As for Wellspring, I like the 1 of Wellspring as an engineer target to take you to value town. If I'm worried about a surgical or something, my go-to Engineer target is a Wellspring, so then I can ideally start exchanging wellspring and Astrolabes.
As for Whir, I also am fine with cutting a bit lower on Whir. I'm at 3, and the lists that run 2 no longer seem so crazy to me. I rarely Whir for anything but the combo pieces, and they just don't feel as necessary now that we have Engineer and Urza. Whirs were super important before Urza, but now, I just don't think they have the same impact they did when we were a lot more toolboxy.
Wow, so Thopter Sword is finally putting up some real results. 2 copies in the top 4 of the SCG team event, including one in the finals. At GP Dallas one copy of the deck went undefeated in day 1 and in the top 8! It also ended up at 2.2% of the Day 2 meta. We're actually putting up enough results to appear in metagame % breakdowns! It was actually the 4th most popular day 2 deck at the SCG team event, with 5 copies total.
Part of me is a little sad that this isn't just our little pet deck anymore, but now it's looking like a real contender, which is really great!
Has anyone tried karn, the great creator in the whir slots in the newer versions of the decks? seems like it would make a decent 5/6th urza while also doing a similar job of whir, since it can grab bridge, sword, foundry as well as clock of omens for comboing, mycosynth latice, etc
I think Karn is just not needed. I'm not a huge fan of adding more 4 drops, and it also means devoting a bunch of precious sideboard space to a wishboard for Karn. I think to make that worth it you probably need to be running 3 or 4 Karns, and that's just way too many 4 drops in the deck imo, that just aren't really needed.
I think rather than Karn i'd rather play Tezzeret if I wanted a 4 mana walker threat, or I'd possibly even consider Karn, Scion of Urza now that we're not leaning so hard on Ensnaring Bridge like we used to, so more Karnstruct tokens provide a legit path to victory
I can definitely get behind the 1 Sai idea. I cut down to 2 awhile ago, and I think 1 is also where I'll end up. Sometimes he's great, but often he's mediocre. And I find I constantly draw both of them.
So far I haven't missed Damping Sphere much, but I run Blood Moon which can work against tron, though I haven't run into Tron in awhile. If you haven't tried blood moon, seriously try it, it's great! It does Blood Moon things and several times it's just won me the game on the spot against decks like Jund or Jeskai. Since we're primarily fetching basics it's easy to run in our deck.
I have been running a witchbane Orb in the side though specifically for Aria of Flame now that Storm and Phoenix are both running it
I'm still on 0 vista myself, but that's just cause I have spent so much money lately on Horizons cards, I can't really justify another $130 for a set of paper copies + the mtgo copies In a little bit I'll probably grab some.
Also, why Deputy of Detention over Detention Sphere? Especially now that Urza and Engineer are around everyone keeps removal in against us, I wonder if Detention Sphere might end up actually dodging more removal than Deputy can.
Solid advice. I have been pretty resistant to maindeck Grid because you can't whir for it, but I doubt I'll ever whir for grinding station anyway. In which case either spine or aether grid are probably better options. I'll give grid a try
So here's my current list, I've been running this shell for a bit now and really like it. Maindeck I feel is quite solid, though I tweak the 1 drop slow around a bit. Sideboard is where most changes happen. This is based off things I've seen Kanister and Zac Elsik running lately, which were of course based off TheNobody's list. This exact 75 I took to my LGS last night, so I've only so far run it through about 4 matches where I went 2-2. I beat Grixis Control and Norin Soul Sisters, while lost to Bridgevine (HOGAAK!!!!) and Infect.
So really my losses where decks that were just really fast, my interaction for something like infect was too few and too slow. Similarly with bridgevine, the game they had a slower hand I was fine, the games with the really fast hands I felt I was close but not quite there.
Changes I might make are swapping one of the needles for a Pyrite Spellbomb or Nihil Spellbomb. Possibly consider cutting one wellspring for something, possibilities are the 4th foundry, the 4th whir, or another one drop probably a spellbomb. I do like having access to at least one Wellspring for that sick Engineer value, but I hate drawing them early. I could even see possibly cutting the bridge, I rarely search for it these days, but I do still like it as a one of. Lastly I'll probably give swapping Grinding Station for Spine of Ish Sah a try. I've been resistant with how expensive Spine is, but there have been places I could have used it well. I do like Grinding Station though, since if it's not winning the game on the spot it can work as a sweet mana engine with Urza and untapping a lot.
Sideboard, I dunno, I'm still all over the place. I like the Leylines for Bridgevine. Blood Moons were a last minute inclusion and they seem just great. Tezz of course is solid, could maybe even cut down to one. Goblin Cratermaker's were something that could hopefully be used vs both tron and creature decks, but they felt REALLY bad vs creature decks, so they could become more bolts or pushes or something. Witchbane Orb was also a last minute inclusion after losing some games online to Aria of Flame, I dunno if it'll stick around
Considering the deck is pretty much entirely different and plays very differently from the prison days of old, I'm fine with revisiting old discarded ideas to see if it's any different now
3 Goblin Engineer
2 Sai, Master Thopterist
4 Urza, Lord High Artificer
Artifacts (26)
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Arcum's Astrolabe
4 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Ichor Wellspring
4 Pentad Prism
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Whir of Invention
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
Lands (21)
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
1 Spirebluff Canal
4 Polluted Delta
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
5 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Spire of Industry
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Dead of Winter
2 Blood Moon
1 Witchbane Orb
3 Galvanic Blast
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Thoughtseize
1 Spellskite
Nothing crazy groundbreaking. Beat Dredge (2-1), UW Control (2-0), MonoU Tempo (2-1), and Hardened Scales (2-0)
Probably going to drop 1-2 of the Pentad Prisms for something else, maybe squeeze some Serum Visions back into there. Otherwise everything in the main felt good. Sideboard I didn't actually get to use the Cyclonic Rift, but I think I may swap the 2 blood moon for 2 Teferi and swap a Hallowed Fountain into the main.
I'm not sure it's the way to go, but it could well be, it's a nice option to have when everyone is hating on your thopter sword combo, and you just win with this instead
So far I still think I like Grid more, but I can see the appeal of Trawler. I'm just starting to try out Spine of Ish Sah in that slot right now
The Urza Sword lists that have been putting up results are quite good against UW Control as is. Thopter Foundry is pretty good against them. Engineer is really good against them as long as you don't get RiP'd, which they'll likely be playing less of. Urza is great against them, Sai is great against them. We have so many more threats now that it can be difficult for UW Control to answer them all. Overall I've been finding UW Control even before the Bridge ban to be a favourable matchup. Now if anything we can probably make it better since we can ditch the 4 Leylines in the board for a probably just a couple graveyard hate pieces, which opens a couple extra slots for other things. Teferi could be an option, thoughtseize is good against them, stuff like that.
To be honest, I think the heavily toolbox days are gone, it's generally just not needed and it's all about the combo
As for Wellspring, I like the 1 of Wellspring as an engineer target to take you to value town. If I'm worried about a surgical or something, my go-to Engineer target is a Wellspring, so then I can ideally start exchanging wellspring and Astrolabes.
As for Whir, I also am fine with cutting a bit lower on Whir. I'm at 3, and the lists that run 2 no longer seem so crazy to me. I rarely Whir for anything but the combo pieces, and they just don't feel as necessary now that we have Engineer and Urza. Whirs were super important before Urza, but now, I just don't think they have the same impact they did when we were a lot more toolboxy.
Part of me is a little sad that this isn't just our little pet deck anymore, but now it's looking like a real contender, which is really great!
I think Karn is just not needed. I'm not a huge fan of adding more 4 drops, and it also means devoting a bunch of precious sideboard space to a wishboard for Karn. I think to make that worth it you probably need to be running 3 or 4 Karns, and that's just way too many 4 drops in the deck imo, that just aren't really needed.
I think rather than Karn i'd rather play Tezzeret if I wanted a 4 mana walker threat, or I'd possibly even consider Karn, Scion of Urza now that we're not leaning so hard on Ensnaring Bridge like we used to, so more Karnstruct tokens provide a legit path to victory
So far I haven't missed Damping Sphere much, but I run Blood Moon which can work against tron, though I haven't run into Tron in awhile. If you haven't tried blood moon, seriously try it, it's great! It does Blood Moon things and several times it's just won me the game on the spot against decks like Jund or Jeskai. Since we're primarily fetching basics it's easy to run in our deck.
I have been running a witchbane Orb in the side though specifically for Aria of Flame now that Storm and Phoenix are both running it
I'm still on 0 vista myself, but that's just cause I have spent so much money lately on Horizons cards, I can't really justify another $130 for a set of paper copies + the mtgo copies
Also, why Deputy of Detention over Detention Sphere? Especially now that Urza and Engineer are around everyone keeps removal in against us, I wonder if Detention Sphere might end up actually dodging more removal than Deputy can.
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Sai, Master Thopterist
4 Urza, Lord High Artificer
Artifacts (26)
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Arcum's Astrolabe
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Ichor Wellspring
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Grinding Station
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Whir of Invention
Lands (21)
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Spirebluff Canal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
6 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Dead of Winter
2 Blood Moon
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Battle at the Bridge
2 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Witchbane Orb
So here's my current list, I've been running this shell for a bit now and really like it. Maindeck I feel is quite solid, though I tweak the 1 drop slow around a bit. Sideboard is where most changes happen. This is based off things I've seen Kanister and Zac Elsik running lately, which were of course based off TheNobody's list. This exact 75 I took to my LGS last night, so I've only so far run it through about 4 matches where I went 2-2. I beat Grixis Control and Norin Soul Sisters, while lost to Bridgevine (HOGAAK!!!!) and Infect.
So really my losses where decks that were just really fast, my interaction for something like infect was too few and too slow. Similarly with bridgevine, the game they had a slower hand I was fine, the games with the really fast hands I felt I was close but not quite there.
Changes I might make are swapping one of the needles for a Pyrite Spellbomb or Nihil Spellbomb. Possibly consider cutting one wellspring for something, possibilities are the 4th foundry, the 4th whir, or another one drop probably a spellbomb. I do like having access to at least one Wellspring for that sick Engineer value, but I hate drawing them early. I could even see possibly cutting the bridge, I rarely search for it these days, but I do still like it as a one of. Lastly I'll probably give swapping Grinding Station for Spine of Ish Sah a try. I've been resistant with how expensive Spine is, but there have been places I could have used it well. I do like Grinding Station though, since if it's not winning the game on the spot it can work as a sweet mana engine with Urza and untapping a lot.
Sideboard, I dunno, I'm still all over the place. I like the Leylines for Bridgevine. Blood Moons were a last minute inclusion and they seem just great. Tezz of course is solid, could maybe even cut down to one. Goblin Cratermaker's were something that could hopefully be used vs both tron and creature decks, but they felt REALLY bad vs creature decks, so they could become more bolts or pushes or something. Witchbane Orb was also a last minute inclusion after losing some games online to Aria of Flame, I dunno if it'll stick around