Unless someone comes up with a radical list, there really isn't much to talk about.
I've made some tweaks to my Obliterate list from a couple weeks ago, but I just haven't had any time to get out and play. Hopefully tomorrow night I'll have more to report.
Karn was surprisingly effective alongside Obliterate, but he's also a solid drop in general. While he's not coming down on turn 3 and eating everything like in Tron, he can come down as early as turn 4 (not likely, but it could happen) and given our ability to control the board, he can keep the giant threats away while also eat cards out of their hand. If nothing else, he's a giant lightning rod, but all of his abilities are relevant.
So I might have played the trashiest iteration I've ever touched this last Monday. Sadly I didn't get to play out the last round and ultimately ended 2-0-1, but had a blast doing it.
Matches were:
2-1 against RG Ponza
Hiding behind Bridge game 3, I managed to land Karn and hold down the board until Obliterate locking down the board with Karn out sealed the deal.
2-1 against BW Bears
My loss here came from getting land screwed game 2. Otherwise, pretty standard match; Anger kills just about everything, and Koth ultimate is game.
Round 3 would have been against Gifts Storm, but rounds 1 and 2 had gone to time and my daughter was getting cranky. We agreed to a prize split while also agreeing on a grudge match on a later date.
It felt weird maxing out both SSG and Mind Stone, but having 8 ways to cheat out a walker on turn 3 felt okay. Ultimately, Mind Stone becomes a midgame cantrip, so it was never really dead.
Karn did work, but most of my wins were on the back of Chandra. Even though I didn't have Eternal Scourge, Chandra won multiple games by herself. Koth often read "+1: Add R to your mana pool", but the ability to -2 into Karn or Obliterate is real.
Obliterate was a sideboard piece from the last time I played this months back when I was seeing Jeskai Control and Mono-U Tron in the meta. I enjoy the card much more than I should, and in slower local meta, I love the idea of closing out a match against blue control by blowing up everything.
The board definitely needs a bit of tweaking. I'm looking to include a couple Ratchet Bomb and, despite my better judgment, a 3rd Obliterate. I'm also considering moving the 4th Moon to the board in favor of the 3rd Relic.
Any matchups in particular, or just in general? Jeff did have a nice writeup from the event here where he does give a bit of a description of sideboarding for a few different matchups. When I'm more sober I'll update the OP with the added information.
The bastard child of Sneak and Show and Dragon Stompy, Big Red combines the massive disrupting powers of Chalice of the Void and Blood Moon with the legacies baddest fatties. Both being able to sneak in a monster or hard-cast titans, Big Red gives a versatile way to bring in the beats.
Card selection
The Disruption
Chalice of the Void – Legacy being the low-curve format that it is, landing a Chalice at 1 can lock out the majority of spells from many decks. Shutting out Brainstorm, Ponder, Swords to Plowshares, etc. on turn 1 can turn an opponent’s very keepable opener into a struggle to stay alive.
Blood Moon – Another blowout card, able to put excessive strain on the 3+ color decks’ manabases. With many decks running very few basics, an early moon can hard lock decks out of the game.
The Beef
Griselbrand – Swinging in for 7 is fine by itself, but his draw ability turns an active Sneak Attack into a win.
Worldspine Wurm – A massive body that leaves behind its own army.
Inferno Titan – A threat that can easily be cast. While its power isn’t quite on par with Primeval Titan in Bloom Titan, crushing weenies when he lands and each time he attacks keeps opponents at risk.
Wurmcoil Engine – Another threat that can be easily cast. Leaves some staying power off Sneak
Godo, Bandit Warlord/Batterskull – Endearingly called "the good stoneforge mystic, Godo resolving presents 7 power in conjunction with a searched up Batterskull. The attack trigger also allows your vigilant creatures to get another swing in. Ultimately, these two function similarly to Wurmcoil, where you’re left with a body behind after being sneaked into play.
City of Traitors, Ancient Tomb – Fast mana that can push out a turn 1 chalice, or, with a little help, a turn 1 moon.
Sandstone Needle – Slightly slower “fast mana” that opens up the turn 2 plays. It doesn’t give you the turn 1 chalice and opens you up to wasteland disruption, but
Seething Song - Somewhere between the Sol Lands and Petal/SSG, boosting ahead 2 mana makes the difference between sneaking in a guy turn 1 versus turn 2, dropping a Titan/Engine on turn 2 vs turn 3 or 4, etc.
Less Common Choices
Mox Diamond – Opens up more early plays, and especially opens more lines with Griselbrand and Sneak Attack.
Chandra, Flamecaller – A Swiss Army Knife. Poses a clock on her own, is able to wipe most of legacy’s threats, and the option to draw cards is something that the deck otherwise lacks.
Pyromancy – For the metagame where creatures just aren’t guaranteed to hit, able to turn each draw into direct damage can make the difference. Comparing it to Sneak is slightly disingenuous as the creatures that can be put in are generally more effective than a simple smash, but the ability to turn extra moons, monkeys, etc. into bolts is sometimes necessary. Often saved for the board.
Sideboarding:
Sideboard Options
Defense Grid – For those matchups where your opponent is just making things difficult for you to resolve.
Trinisphere – For storm, Omni, or any time where they’ve got a lower land count or Moon just isn’t cutting it. Trinisphere makes Force of Will a bad Cancel, and turns Dark Ritual into nothing but Storm+1.
Ashen Rider – Perfectly fine for the occasion where your opponent dares to Show and Tell, or just has problem permanents like Bridge that need to be answered.
Faerie Macabre – Grave hate the hits at instant speed without needing to be cast. Works well for things like Reanimator, doesn’t work as well for things like Dredge.
Tormod’s Crypt – Although effectively announcing that you’ve got a bomb, Crypt does offer a means of shutting down/stalling against grave-based decks.
Shattering Spree/Shatterstorm – Shattering Spree can drop multiple copies to get around things like countermagic, chalice (the original would be countered), but is limited to the number of red sources you have. Shatterstorm on the other hand, blows up everything indiscriminately.
Pyroclasm/Rending Volley/Sudden Shock – There’s been a lot of discussion on the means to answer problem cards like Containment Priest, Gaddock Teeg, and Phyrexian Revoker. The traditional go-to was Pyroclasm, which is able to take out multiple threats, though it itself can be countered/responded to. Rending Volley being a single-target removal spell that can’t be countered (and can be resolved through chalice at 1), but can’t take out Revoker. Sudden Shock is very difficult to counter (though a properly stacked Counterbalance does allow for an answer even though they can’t top in response), and can’t be responded to by Karakas or Mother of Runes, but any previously pumped bear is likely out of reach for Shock.
Sulfur Elemental – Whether taking out Thalia and Mom, or wiping out Monk tokens, Elemental offers a difficult-to-answer way to take out the small white guys.
Ingot Chewer – A 1-drop artifact removal that doubles as a body. Not too much else to say about it.
Stronghold Gambit – For those matchups with minimal/huge creatures like Storm or Reanimator, being able drop a lock piece and a standing threat can make for a rough time for them. Be mindful of the threats your opponent runs when you cast this, and hope that they don’t have the Grave Titan.
Goblin Rabblemaster – 2R is easy enough to cast on the early turns, and Rabblemaster alone can pose a fast enough clock to make a deck like miracles have to use their sweeper to continue.
\my advice it that every time you draw a 5cc dragon ask yourself, if i could take mirrorwing instead right now? would i?
the answer very well might be no, but i think it's worth asking.
For the number of times I've had my opponents gripe to me about how they "literally can't beat Stormbreath", I'm content keeping Stormbreath for the time being. I love Thundermaw too, but Pro White is just so damn good.
While I don't hate Chandra, Pyromaster, I always disliked how easily she died, and how mediocre her ultimate felt. Flamecaller seemed much better for the sweeping, and also functioning as beatstick. I don't usually use her 0 ability, but I like the option for turning a hand of lands into fuel. Outpost Seige always feels good too, even though it doesn't "do anything" until the next turn. The incremental card advantage is ridiculous, and the fact that most decks can't answer it (or save their answers for blood moon) means it pays off often.
Talisman is sitting in place of my 4th Mind Stone. Most of the time, it just taps for colorless anyway. I think the SSG will be becoming an extra Snow-Mountain though. SSG always feels bad off Seige
My meta has a fair amount of Chord decks, a few hate bears, affinity, RG Tron, and an random eldrazi list.
Monday, I was fortunate enough to be paired against Suicide Zoo (2-0), Kiki Chord (2-0), and Mono-White Tokens (2-0). Biggest blow from the night was an inability to remove Oblivion Ring after it ate a couple threats, followed by the awkward moment when I exiled a SSG to Outpost Seige.
I do acknowledge that i did have easy matchups that night. But I did play against fish 3 times in the IQ. Pyro never really mattered after turn 2 against them when i played it main. Between 4 Stone, 2 Ugin, and the Rending Volley in the board, i only dropped one game against them. Again, I'll be writing up a proper (or slightly less *****ty) one tonight for that event.
I've been playing with Explore lately to a fairly good amount of success locally (2-1 and 3-0 in local weeklies and a 2nd place finish at a 44 player IQ). My 75:
Most notable differences being the removal of the Pyroclasms to the board and the inclusion of Explore (mostly in place of the Relic).
I found relic to be mostly dead or too often a 2 mana cantrip, much like Explore. Unlike explore, it can't be used to turn any hand relying on a turn 1 Stirrings into a turn 3 tron, help recover from the tempo loss of a Fulminator Mage, or open up a turn 3 Ugin/OStone&break/Newlamog.
I'm just on my lunch now, so I'll try to finish the big one this evening, but the last modern Monday went as follows:
Round 1 against UW(b) control
Rocked the match hard. Actually lived the dream: turn 1 mine-star, turn 2 power plant-explore into Tower, map, search up another tower, turn 3 Newlamog.
Round 2,against Soul Sisters
Anyone who's played this matchup knows how one-sided it is. Even without pyro main, OStone and ugin still wreck small white chicks. Pyro came game 2, but my opponent kept a ropier hand and didn't hit a second land until after i had a live karn.
Round 3 against Junk.
Game 1 was a bit closer than I'm comfortable with. He layed out 2 Goyfs, which i followed up with Newlamog taking 2 lands. He drops Liliana, killing Newlamog, and attacks me down to 8. Ancient stirrings showed me an OStone and he scooped here.
Game 2,he led with a birds and proceded to miss a second land (and subsequently the Fulminator). He scooped turn 3 after i dropped (i believe) a wurmcoil.
6-0 in games that night. Also faced positive matchups all night which helped.
Edit: Apparently I just straight-up forgot to include lands in my list. Not that 90% of it is any different than any other list.
I feel like this deck could actually just not have all 4 Serum Powers and actually just play a Nihil Spellbomb or a Relic of Progenitus to hit Emrakuls.
Either than that....this deck is the truth
The issue with Emrakul is, well, if they run one, then yes, a single Crypt or Spellbomb or whatever actually works. If they're running more than one Eldrazi (Sneak and Show, 12 post, etc), crypt isn't enough. Because the combo only happens at sorcery speed and only mills one card at a time, Emrakul will always reshuffle. I can certainly get behind running a singleton Spellbomb/crypt main, but only with the understanding that it alone isn't going to be enough for multiple eldrazi.
While I played the living wish build above last week, two weeks prior I had been playing a dark punishing list (basically punishing with a black dual and bog over my two basics) which served me quite well. All I'm currently missing is an extra zealous persecution from the board. I'll probably be playing that next weekend, and I'll probably update wkth a list later this evening.
Right now, I've got 2, Maverick (switching between Punishing, Dark, and GW) and a rotating combo deck, Currently Omni Tell, but switches between some Show and Tell build and Storm. Realistically, I should be able to have both Omni Tell and DDFT togther, but for the life of me, I'm struggling to find a second playset of Gitaxian Probe, of all things
I've been in a huge maverick mood lately. I've actually been tweaking my build/list a couple times a week for the last month or so. Before I had to take a break, I was playing Punishing Maverick, which I'm still hugely fond of, but the appearance of Young Pyroman and Swiftspear makes things a little awkward. My first tournament back, I tried Punishing with a small black splash. I decided to try something a little different the next week (at least for me) GW Living Wish
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We only ended up with 7, but one guy dropped after round 1. No big deal, I'm still easing back into the game, and this is a good transition for me.
Round 1, against Nick with Dredge.
Basically, Nick had garbage luck all day with his dredges. This slowed him down enough for living wish into Bog to be an actual win. Gaddock Teeg kills off dread return, and Ooze, while a little slow, ended the game. Game 1, he went all in and whiffed on a breakthrough. Living Wish for Bog ended him there. Game 2, I kept a hand of Plains, Mom, Swords x2, Thalia x2. Unfortunately, his Therapy's really did work. Game 3, I was able to get Ooze out and slowly eat his grave until he scooped.
Round 2, against (other) Nick, with Infect
I was scouting a little bit before the event and saw the infect deck fanned out on the table. I opted to fit Melira into my board for this reason. Sadly, I didn't get a chance to cast her at all. Game 2, I brought Melira in (then I'd have 5 virtual copies instead of the 4), and naturally, I drew the living wish instead of the GSZ . The deck is kinda fast, and when you can't find your out or play really loosely (like wasting swords and wastelands on unpumped/non-lethal attackers), things don't go well for you
Round 3, against Gabe, with Reanimator
Karakas is kinda good, I hear. The mix of Karakas, Swords, and Sword of Fire and Ice game 2 (when he brought in Inkwell Levaithan) made things pretty solid. Knight is a beautiful thing
I'm torn between this build and good ol' Punishing Mav for the "Big Legacy" next weekend. I haven't played anything on a larger level in a while. Any thoughts?
I've made some tweaks to my Obliterate list from a couple weeks ago, but I just haven't had any time to get out and play. Hopefully tomorrow night I'll have more to report.
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalker
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Karn Liberated
Other Spells
4 Mind Stone
4 Blood Moon
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Skred
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Obliterate
20 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Scrying Sheets
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Dragon Claw
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ricochet Trap
2 Shatterstorm
Matches were:
2-1 against RG Ponza
Hiding behind Bridge game 3, I managed to land Karn and hold down the board until Obliterate locking down the board with Karn out sealed the deal.
2-1 against BW Bears
My loss here came from getting land screwed game 2. Otherwise, pretty standard match; Anger kills just about everything, and Koth ultimate is game.
Round 3 would have been against Gifts Storm, but rounds 1 and 2 had gone to time and my daughter was getting cranky. We agreed to a prize split while also agreeing on a grudge match on a later date.
It felt weird maxing out both SSG and Mind Stone, but having 8 ways to cheat out a walker on turn 3 felt okay. Ultimately, Mind Stone becomes a midgame cantrip, so it was never really dead.
Karn did work, but most of my wins were on the back of Chandra. Even though I didn't have Eternal Scourge, Chandra won multiple games by herself. Koth often read "+1: Add R to your mana pool", but the ability to -2 into Karn or Obliterate is real.
Obliterate was a sideboard piece from the last time I played this months back when I was seeing Jeskai Control and Mono-U Tron in the meta. I enjoy the card much more than I should, and in slower local meta, I love the idea of closing out a match against blue control by blowing up everything.
The board definitely needs a bit of tweaking. I'm looking to include a couple Ratchet Bomb and, despite my better judgment, a 3rd Obliterate. I'm also considering moving the 4th Moon to the board in favor of the 3rd Relic.
The bastard child of Sneak and Show and Dragon Stompy, Big Red combines the massive disrupting powers of Chalice of the Void and Blood Moon with the legacies baddest fatties. Both being able to sneak in a monster or hard-cast titans, Big Red gives a versatile way to bring in the beats.
Card selection
The Disruption
The Beef
The Mana
Less Common Choices
Sideboarding:
Sample decklists:
2 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Seething Song
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Griselbrand
1 Worldspine
2 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
7 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Sandstone Needle
2 Rending Volley
2 Shattering Spree
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Pyroclasm
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Inferno Titan
1 Wurmcoil
1 Worldspine Wurm
3 Griselbrand
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Inferno Titan
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Seething Song
4 Lotus Petal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Through the Breach
4 Sneak Attack
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
6 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Ashen Rider
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Sudden Shock
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Worldspine Wurm
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Godo, Bandit Warlord
3 Griselbrand
9 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
1 Sandstone Needle
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
4 Blood Moon
4 Sneak Attack
4 Seething Song
4 Through the Breach
3 Trinisphere
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Pyromancy
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Boil
2 Sudden Shock
1 Pyroclasm
2 Shattering Spree
Matchups:
Shardless BUG - highly favorable
RUG Delver - Slightly favorable
Miracles - Slightly favorable on the play, slightly unfavorable on the draw.
Infect - Highly unfavorable
Death and Taxes - Unfavorable
Storm - slightly favorable
Grixis Delver - slightly favorable
A crash course on the deck can be found here
For the number of times I've had my opponents gripe to me about how they "literally can't beat Stormbreath", I'm content keeping Stormbreath for the time being. I love Thundermaw too, but Pro White is just so damn good.
4 Skred
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Blood Moon
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Outpost Seige
3 Mind Stone
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Scrying Sheets
19 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Shatterstorm
2 Spellskite
1 Blood Moon
3 Dragon's Claw
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Obliterate
2 Kozilek's Return
While I don't hate Chandra, Pyromaster, I always disliked how easily she died, and how mediocre her ultimate felt. Flamecaller seemed much better for the sweeping, and also functioning as beatstick. I don't usually use her 0 ability, but I like the option for turning a hand of lands into fuel. Outpost Seige always feels good too, even though it doesn't "do anything" until the next turn. The incremental card advantage is ridiculous, and the fact that most decks can't answer it (or save their answers for blood moon) means it pays off often.
Talisman is sitting in place of my 4th Mind Stone. Most of the time, it just taps for colorless anyway. I think the SSG will be becoming an extra Snow-Mountain though. SSG always feels bad off Seige
My meta has a fair amount of Chord decks, a few hate bears, affinity, RG Tron, and an random eldrazi list.
Monday, I was fortunate enough to be paired against Suicide Zoo (2-0), Kiki Chord (2-0), and Mono-White Tokens (2-0). Biggest blow from the night was an inability to remove Oblivion Ring after it ate a couple threats, followed by the awkward moment when I exiled a SSG to Outpost Seige.
4 chromatic star
4 expedition map
4 sylvan scrying
4 ancient stirrings
4 oblivion stone
3 explore
4 karn liberated
2 ugin the spirit dragon
3 wurmcoil engine
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 spellskite
1 newlamog
1 void winnower
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
1 Cavern of Souls
3 spellskite
3 rending volley
2 crumble to dust
3 pyroclasm
4 nature's claim
Most notable differences being the removal of the Pyroclasms to the board and the inclusion of Explore (mostly in place of the Relic).
I found relic to be mostly dead or too often a 2 mana cantrip, much like Explore. Unlike explore, it can't be used to turn any hand relying on a turn 1 Stirrings into a turn 3 tron, help recover from the tempo loss of a Fulminator Mage, or open up a turn 3 Ugin/OStone&break/Newlamog.
I'm just on my lunch now, so I'll try to finish the big one this evening, but the last modern Monday went as follows:
Round 1 against UW(b) control
Rocked the match hard. Actually lived the dream: turn 1 mine-star, turn 2 power plant-explore into Tower, map, search up another tower, turn 3 Newlamog.
Round 2,against Soul Sisters
Anyone who's played this matchup knows how one-sided it is. Even without pyro main, OStone and ugin still wreck small white chicks. Pyro came game 2, but my opponent kept a ropier hand and didn't hit a second land until after i had a live karn.
Round 3 against Junk.
Game 1 was a bit closer than I'm comfortable with. He layed out 2 Goyfs, which i followed up with Newlamog taking 2 lands. He drops Liliana, killing Newlamog, and attacks me down to 8. Ancient stirrings showed me an OStone and he scooped here.
Game 2,he led with a birds and proceded to miss a second land (and subsequently the Fulminator). He scooped turn 3 after i dropped (i believe) a wurmcoil.
6-0 in games that night. Also faced positive matchups all night which helped.
Edit: Apparently I just straight-up forgot to include lands in my list. Not that 90% of it is any different than any other list.
The issue with Emrakul is, well, if they run one, then yes, a single Crypt or Spellbomb or whatever actually works. If they're running more than one Eldrazi (Sneak and Show, 12 post, etc), crypt isn't enough. Because the combo only happens at sorcery speed and only mills one card at a time, Emrakul will always reshuffle. I can certainly get behind running a singleton Spellbomb/crypt main, but only with the understanding that it alone isn't going to be enough for multiple eldrazi.
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2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Living Wish
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Manriki Gusari
1 Wasteland
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tower of the Magistrate
We only ended up with 7, but one guy dropped after round 1. No big deal, I'm still easing back into the game, and this is a good transition for me.
Round 1, against Nick with Dredge.
Basically, Nick had garbage luck all day with his dredges. This slowed him down enough for living wish into Bog to be an actual win. Gaddock Teeg kills off dread return, and Ooze, while a little slow, ended the game. Game 1, he went all in and whiffed on a breakthrough. Living Wish for Bog ended him there. Game 2, I kept a hand of Plains, Mom, Swords x2, Thalia x2. Unfortunately, his Therapy's really did work. Game 3, I was able to get Ooze out and slowly eat his grave until he scooped.
Round 2, against (other) Nick, with Infect
I was scouting a little bit before the event and saw the infect deck fanned out on the table. I opted to fit Melira into my board for this reason. Sadly, I didn't get a chance to cast her at all. Game 2, I brought Melira in (then I'd have 5 virtual copies instead of the 4), and naturally, I drew the living wish instead of the GSZ . The deck is kinda fast, and when you can't find your out or play really loosely (like wasting swords and wastelands on unpumped/non-lethal attackers), things don't go well for you
Round 3, against Gabe, with Reanimator
Karakas is kinda good, I hear. The mix of Karakas, Swords, and Sword of Fire and Ice game 2 (when he brought in Inkwell Levaithan) made things pretty solid. Knight is a beautiful thing
I'm torn between this build and good ol' Punishing Mav for the "Big Legacy" next weekend. I haven't played anything on a larger level in a while. Any thoughts?