I'm starting to get vendilion clique too, still couldn't take out tasigur, is bad against jace but still good against burn, jund, eldrazi... specially when you can play it on turn 2.
In reality i would love something that I could play instead of tasigur (in terms of additional threat), the RR on pia and kiran I find challenging to main board. what are you thoughts on the return of kalitas or keranos? maybe an aditional planeswalker (lili, the last hope)?
taking out tasigur probably makes room to put another logic knot.
An additional thought, I have been testing 1 spell snare and 1 spell pierce, the spell pierce has been really good, countering Liliana, thoughtseize, jace and blood moon, protecting jace too.
I didn't express myself correctly. What I meant is that adding young pyromancer to the deck allows to pressure the opponent in different ways, what in perspective makes jace more efficient and threatening.
the problem is that i moved away from tasigur to get jace...maybe thats wrong?
Right now is difficult to say, nobody knows what is the best build but it's an option. the best way to win against ponza, imo, is waitning on the fetches and play the counters at the right time.
hello guys.So i have been facing gr ponza a LOT and i cant seem to beat it.How i am supposed to beat utopia sprawl into land destoy into bbe/bmoon/land destroy???
Anyone has any ideas on how to beat the deck?
It's a difficult scenario to win, my strategy against those decks always was holding counterspells and wait on the fetchs, unless i can slam a tasigur turn two.
Thanks. From what I have gathered from chatting on Twitch, Jace is a pretty middling card for most people. We are currently in a transitional period where people are trying Jace out in decks where it doesn't belong. I'm expecting the amount of play Jace sees to drop down in the next few weeks.
I have played with Young Pyromancer in the past too: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/541909#online
Back then the biggest reason was (IIRC) that I wanted a card that blocks the threats UR Kiln Fiend decks played, and also operated well under Blood Moon. I'm pretty sure that decklist wanted some Pushes in it, though.
I've always loved Young Pyromancer, but there need to be enough compelling reasons for me justify playing him, since one of the biggest strengths of this deck is that we are, for the most part, immune to cards like Bolt and Push. Since I went down to two Tasigurs I felt that I wanted another threat in the maindeck. Initially I cut one Mana Leak and added a Clique, as they both serve role as disruptive cards. I wasn't really feeling Clique, though, and missed my second Mana Leak a lot. So I went back to Young Peezy. I recently played against Thrun out of the sideboard of Abzan, UW control playing Gideon of Trials, and had to face a lot of Taking Turns -decks on MODO. The unbanning of Jace also made me want to have a threat that's good at attacking PWs. These small catalysts made me try him out again. I'm currently playing just one Peezy and went back to three Cryptics.
Having even just a single Young Pyromancer in the deck can solve some very real problems. If you can dodge or deal with their new Lilis, Peezy absolutely shreds DS decks to pieces, which I do still find very challenging MUs. In many MUs you might be able to stabilize at a low life total, but still have trouble turning the corner. Sometimes you can't afford to attack with your Tasigur, and Snapcaster might be too small. Young Pyromancer's ability to go wide allows you to start racing the opponent more actively. Pyromancer is also obviously strong with the Cryptic - Snap - Cryptic lock.
As for the overall composition of the deck, I'm probably not going to change anything in the near future. My list hasn't changed much at all in the last ~6 months. Going down to two Tasigurs was the biggest change in a long time, which is a result of the format's threats growing ever larger (pyromancer is definitely a nice complement to Tasigur in this sense). Three Cryptics, two Mana Leaks and two Remands is a counterspell core I've been very happy with. I'm also pretty settled on AV>Search, but I could make an essay on this topic alone so I'll leave it at that.
As for now I don't think the deck needs Jace. There might be some other decks or deck compositions where Jace does belong.
I think that in your version AV is better than search because the deck plays more a tempo/midrange gameplan than a control deck, after trying it seems more similar to a grixis delver list than a hard control deck like yasooka or corey lists.
One question: why the split between spirebluff canal and sulfur falls?
I made a list based on yours taking out the AV and adding 2 JTMS and 1 Bolt, I like the proactivity of the deck and having 6 difficult to deal threats sold me the deck. Next Saturday I will test it IRL, then I can share the list and how it went.
But in the end I will probably still won't be sure if I prefer the Search+Jace super synergetic version (+scour+field of ruin+tasi/snap) or this pressure version of the deck.
In reality i would love something that I could play instead of tasigur (in terms of additional threat), the RR on pia and kiran I find challenging to main board. what are you thoughts on the return of kalitas or keranos? maybe an aditional planeswalker (lili, the last hope)?
taking out tasigur probably makes room to put another logic knot.
An additional thought, I have been testing 1 spell snare and 1 spell pierce, the spell pierce has been really good, countering Liliana, thoughtseize, jace and blood moon, protecting jace too.
the lands make sense what you says.
Right now is difficult to say, nobody knows what is the best build but it's an option. the best way to win against ponza, imo, is waitning on the fetches and play the counters at the right time.
It's a difficult scenario to win, my strategy against those decks always was holding counterspells and wait on the fetchs, unless i can slam a tasigur turn two.
I think that in your version AV is better than search because the deck plays more a tempo/midrange gameplan than a control deck, after trying it seems more similar to a grixis delver list than a hard control deck like yasooka or corey lists.
One question: why the split between spirebluff canal and sulfur falls?
I made a list based on yours taking out the AV and adding 2 JTMS and 1 Bolt, I like the proactivity of the deck and having 6 difficult to deal threats sold me the deck. Next Saturday I will test it IRL, then I can share the list and how it went.
But in the end I will probably still won't be sure if I prefer the Search+Jace super synergetic version (+scour+field of ruin+tasi/snap) or this pressure version of the deck.