Tribe makes Titan a turn 3 play much more often. I've been playing a Mosswort Bridge for a while to tutor with Titan. Often i just Titan for Nykthos and Bridge. If we have turn 1 elf, turn 2 Tribe, turn 3 Titan, you have the 10 power needed to activate Mosswort Bridge. My deck plays Emrakul as a Tooth target. If you get either Tooth or Emrakul under Bridge, you can play it turn 4. If you play Emrakul this way, you get the extra turn as well. If you play Tooth you just need to play the extra 2 for the entwine.
Only card I"m liking so far is the new Deranged Hermit. The current available 5 CMC creatures mostly suck, and this bridges the gap against aggressive decks, while also playing into the Craterhoof overrun plan... as typical of Deranged Hermit.
Hopefully we get some cool toys in the next week.
Agreed. I will likely use 2 of the Horizon lands (only because I am currently mono-green with generally a teeny tiny splash into blue or black)...but thus far nothing else has been amazing.
I got so excited seeing the GGG casting cost of Ayula’s Influence... but unless we decide to build a lands deck (which we totally could with Courser, Wave, Tireless Tracker, Life from the Loam, etc.) it won’t likely make the cut in “normal” Devotion.
Keeping my fingers crossed that the Planeswalker is (a) Green and (b) Busted
It depends which way you go. If you run Hydroid Krasis, then this could be amazing. I'm wondering if there isn't a build that has 2-3 things to do with the big mana. I've always run into the problem that if i got hit by therapy/thoughtseize early, i often lost my "big mana spell" (tooth, wave, even Garruk sometimes), and then drew nothing. But now with Karn, Ayula's/Krasis, and even tooth/wave package, you have a lot more (and diverse) avenues to a win.
I can't remember the name of the card, but the new Planar Cleansing with a cost reduction mechanic is pretty much the only card I'm interested in. The rest are all either fluff or need a specific metagame to be good imo.
Yes.
The main problems i have is when opponents land both creatures and planeswalkers. This answers both, as well as random junk decks running artifacts or enchantments. Seems solid.
1: Do you have problems casting Fumigate? It seems quite good, but it's a 5cc sorcery and needs WW. On the plus side it deals with hexproof hydras. Yahenni's expertise deals with everything else, so i'm just wondering if its downsides are greater than its upside. How has it played for you?
2. I see the two Evolving Wilds. With all the "comes into play tapped" lands you play, do you find you are falling behind often? I like the idea of being able to get revolt active on Fatal Push, but i worry it's just making the deck 1 turn slower. I am at 2 Shambling vent, more basics than you and i still find that some games i am playing tapped lands on turns 3 and 4 and being a turn behind.
Also, see my discussions above about Hyroglyphic Illumination vs Glimmer of Genius. A two-land hand with Glimmer is a mulligan, a 2-land hand with Hyroglyphic is probably a keeper. I know you run Aether Hub, and you need Glimmer to keep it coloured, but i really think Illumination is the better card.
I tried Spell Queller, but i found all i was doing was giving my opponent targets for the useless removal they have. It also died to my own Yahennis. Not great. What match-up do you bring it in?
Grasp seem better right now than Push. Liliana isn't getting there, everything has 2 or more toughness. I've gone to 2 Liliana, 1 Sorin, 1 Jace. Makes the control match-ups much better, and can deal with some creatures.
I run Illumination because it cycles. I think it's critical that you don't miss a land drop for this deck (I actually tried 27, but went back to 26 with the extra catalog). I always just cycle Illumination turn one if I draw it, because it's a mid-game card (same with Cast Out). I tried glimmer, but i found most of the time you wanted 1 of the 2 cards you scry'd anyway. So it was only ever digging 1 card deeper than illumination, but it was clogging up my hand in the early game. If i'm against aggro, i want Yahenni's on turn 4, not a 4-mana draw 2 spell. Illumination helps do that, Glimmer does not.
I run one fragmentise because the 1cc sometimes matters. The forsake is good because it also cycles if necessary. If i changed one, it would be the Fragmentize. That said, i can see Unmasking is going to be superior in the control match-up, and you generally have enough life vs midrange (RG/GB) decks, so it may be the right call. In fact even as i type this i can see the advantage of it... Will try it. Thanks for the push! I think it'd be a liability vs Vehicles, but if they are only a small part of the field, it is the superior card.
Commit/memory has been very good. It is a bit of a universal solution, and once you get to 8+ mana, an end of turn Gearhulk for the Memory portion is a nice way to refill your hand. It doesn't matter that they get the cards too, they often only have 5-6 mana at the same point, and just can't use the cards as efficiently as you. I'm yet to lose a game where i've used the Memory half this way. I think the thing i like is Commit's multi-purpose utility. It can deal with anything, spell, creature, planeswalker... I generally side one out vs aggro, but only because there are better options in the sideboard and i need the space. It's not bad, just not quite as good as the other more specific options, but i would never cut both.
Hazoret is fine, he dies to Grasp or Yahenni's + Liliana, and he's not doing anything until their hand is empty. There is plenty of time to deal with him. Rhonas is more of a pain, but To the Slaughter generally deals with him. Just on To The Slaughter, Catalog really helps turn on the delirium. You always have instants and sorceries in the graveyard, and can cycle lands in no trouble. But Catalog/Pull can get a Liliana or enchantment in there too, which can get a nice double if they play a Planeswalker.
GB/GR are ok matchups. Play defensively, and stop the key cards. I side in the 2 Flaying Tendrils, but i might go to three. Yahenni's + Tendrils will wipe their board, but you need to have both, so it's not likely you get it by turn 4, you'll need to stall a bit. Winding Constrictor is a real pain, because it'll quickly get all their stuff out of Yahenni's range. The Hydra is the hardest thing to deal with. Chandra is also a bit of a nightmare. If you can, land Metallurgic Summonings as early as possible. Once it's down you can simply push/grasp the little guys and chump block their biggest threats with the 1/1s and 2/2s while you build up resources. I think the match-up is reasonably favourable, but it can get out of control if you don't draw any decent removal early.
I think the worst match-up game 1 is R/U control running 4 gearhulk. They generally have more counters, and gearhulk is a beating. I bring in the Dispossess for the gearhulks, and the Dispels to try and force one through early. They generally have less card drawing than us, so if you can stop the gearhulks, you can generally win the war of attrition. Still a hard match-up though.
Just joined the forums to discuss this archetype. I've been out of Magic for a few years, and just getting back in (started in Mirage, many years ago now).
I was working on U/B independently, and then noticed an article on SCG with a very similar list. After a fair bit of testing both on MTGO and in the real world, this is what I've got so far:
I think the deck will evolve based on the metagame. Zombies has died off a bit, and there seems a lot of GB counters and RG energy about. Both require To The Slaughter to kill Bristling Hydra, so there are extra in the board.
I see discussion about Sphinx of the Last word. Great vs control, but too slow to be a real answer vs creature decks, and a single blocker doesn't get the job done. I find Metallurgic Summonings amazing vs creatures. Every spell is a 2-for-1, and being able to generate a 4/4 or 3/3 easily at instant speed makes them make bad attacking decisions. If you can land it turn 5 vs aggro, with a spell or two in hand (especially a Pull from Tomorrow), you will win, no question. I tap out to play it a lot. Turn 4 Commit/Memory, turn 5 Metallurgic Summonings is often game over. Even if you have no spells in hand, you can cast the memory and refill, safe in the knowledge you've got a 6/6 there to help out. If you can force it vs control you should win that too.
After board, i think Sphinx would be good, but i expect control to start playing more To The Slaughter to deal with Planeswalkers and Hydras, and Sphinx is collateral damage.
Catalog seems a bit iffy at first, but it serves a purpose. It digs a bit and filters your hand (vs control you can dump that Fatal Push that is doing nothing). It is also another free spell to cast of Yahenni's Expertise. I started with 3 Hieroglyphic Illumination, and then cut one for a Catalog, and after testing I found room for a second Catalog, it plays so well.
I've got the 4th Liliana in the board for the Vehicles matchup, as it kills a lot of guys, but if vehicles/zombies does die off a bit (it should, i think it loses to the BG and RG decks), then that could be a Sorin. I'd love to squeeze Sorin in the main, but he costs 6 and that pushes the deck's curve just a bit too high.
Tribe makes Titan a turn 3 play much more often. I've been playing a Mosswort Bridge for a while to tutor with Titan. Often i just Titan for Nykthos and Bridge. If we have turn 1 elf, turn 2 Tribe, turn 3 Titan, you have the 10 power needed to activate Mosswort Bridge. My deck plays Emrakul as a Tooth target. If you get either Tooth or Emrakul under Bridge, you can play it turn 4. If you play Emrakul this way, you get the extra turn as well. If you play Tooth you just need to play the extra 2 for the entwine.
The main problems i have is when opponents land both creatures and planeswalkers. This answers both, as well as random junk decks running artifacts or enchantments. Seems solid.
A couple of things.
1: Do you have problems casting Fumigate? It seems quite good, but it's a 5cc sorcery and needs WW. On the plus side it deals with hexproof hydras. Yahenni's expertise deals with everything else, so i'm just wondering if its downsides are greater than its upside. How has it played for you?
2. I see the two Evolving Wilds. With all the "comes into play tapped" lands you play, do you find you are falling behind often? I like the idea of being able to get revolt active on Fatal Push, but i worry it's just making the deck 1 turn slower. I am at 2 Shambling vent, more basics than you and i still find that some games i am playing tapped lands on turns 3 and 4 and being a turn behind.
Also, see my discussions above about Hyroglyphic Illumination vs Glimmer of Genius. A two-land hand with Glimmer is a mulligan, a 2-land hand with Hyroglyphic is probably a keeper. I know you run Aether Hub, and you need Glimmer to keep it coloured, but i really think Illumination is the better card.
I tried Spell Queller, but i found all i was doing was giving my opponent targets for the useless removal they have. It also died to my own Yahennis. Not great. What match-up do you bring it in?
One Unmaking seem good main, and one in the side.
Grasp seem better right now than Push. Liliana isn't getting there, everything has 2 or more toughness. I've gone to 2 Liliana, 1 Sorin, 1 Jace. Makes the control match-ups much better, and can deal with some creatures.
I run Illumination because it cycles. I think it's critical that you don't miss a land drop for this deck (I actually tried 27, but went back to 26 with the extra catalog). I always just cycle Illumination turn one if I draw it, because it's a mid-game card (same with Cast Out). I tried glimmer, but i found most of the time you wanted 1 of the 2 cards you scry'd anyway. So it was only ever digging 1 card deeper than illumination, but it was clogging up my hand in the early game. If i'm against aggro, i want Yahenni's on turn 4, not a 4-mana draw 2 spell. Illumination helps do that, Glimmer does not.
I run one fragmentise because the 1cc sometimes matters. The forsake is good because it also cycles if necessary. If i changed one, it would be the Fragmentize. That said, i can see Unmasking is going to be superior in the control match-up, and you generally have enough life vs midrange (RG/GB) decks, so it may be the right call. In fact even as i type this i can see the advantage of it... Will try it. Thanks for the push! I think it'd be a liability vs Vehicles, but if they are only a small part of the field, it is the superior card.
Commit/memory has been very good. It is a bit of a universal solution, and once you get to 8+ mana, an end of turn Gearhulk for the Memory portion is a nice way to refill your hand. It doesn't matter that they get the cards too, they often only have 5-6 mana at the same point, and just can't use the cards as efficiently as you. I'm yet to lose a game where i've used the Memory half this way. I think the thing i like is Commit's multi-purpose utility. It can deal with anything, spell, creature, planeswalker... I generally side one out vs aggro, but only because there are better options in the sideboard and i need the space. It's not bad, just not quite as good as the other more specific options, but i would never cut both.
Hazoret is fine, he dies to Grasp or Yahenni's + Liliana, and he's not doing anything until their hand is empty. There is plenty of time to deal with him. Rhonas is more of a pain, but To the Slaughter generally deals with him. Just on To The Slaughter, Catalog really helps turn on the delirium. You always have instants and sorceries in the graveyard, and can cycle lands in no trouble. But Catalog/Pull can get a Liliana or enchantment in there too, which can get a nice double if they play a Planeswalker.
GB/GR are ok matchups. Play defensively, and stop the key cards. I side in the 2 Flaying Tendrils, but i might go to three. Yahenni's + Tendrils will wipe their board, but you need to have both, so it's not likely you get it by turn 4, you'll need to stall a bit. Winding Constrictor is a real pain, because it'll quickly get all their stuff out of Yahenni's range. The Hydra is the hardest thing to deal with. Chandra is also a bit of a nightmare. If you can, land Metallurgic Summonings as early as possible. Once it's down you can simply push/grasp the little guys and chump block their biggest threats with the 1/1s and 2/2s while you build up resources. I think the match-up is reasonably favourable, but it can get out of control if you don't draw any decent removal early.
I think the worst match-up game 1 is R/U control running 4 gearhulk. They generally have more counters, and gearhulk is a beating. I bring in the Dispossess for the gearhulks, and the Dispels to try and force one through early. They generally have less card drawing than us, so if you can stop the gearhulks, you can generally win the war of attrition. Still a hard match-up though.
I was working on U/B independently, and then noticed an article on SCG with a very similar list. After a fair bit of testing both on MTGO and in the real world, this is what I've got so far:
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Metallurgic Summonings
Spells
3 Fatal Push
3 Negate
2 Catalog
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
4 Pull from Tomorrow
1 Essence Scatter
2 Disallow
2 Grasp of Darkness
3 Yahenni's Expertise
2 Cast Out
2 Commit/Memory
1 To the Slaughter
2 Shambling Vent
4 Choked Estuary
3 Sunken Hollow
2 Port Town
1 Prairie Stream
6 Island
5 Swamp
1 Fetid Pools
2 Irrigated Farmland
1 Negate
1 Fatal Push
1 Forsake the Worldly
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Fragmentize
2 To the Slaughter
3 Dispossess
1 Never/Return
2 Dispel
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
I think the deck will evolve based on the metagame. Zombies has died off a bit, and there seems a lot of GB counters and RG energy about. Both require To The Slaughter to kill Bristling Hydra, so there are extra in the board.
I see discussion about Sphinx of the Last word. Great vs control, but too slow to be a real answer vs creature decks, and a single blocker doesn't get the job done. I find Metallurgic Summonings amazing vs creatures. Every spell is a 2-for-1, and being able to generate a 4/4 or 3/3 easily at instant speed makes them make bad attacking decisions. If you can land it turn 5 vs aggro, with a spell or two in hand (especially a Pull from Tomorrow), you will win, no question. I tap out to play it a lot. Turn 4 Commit/Memory, turn 5 Metallurgic Summonings is often game over. Even if you have no spells in hand, you can cast the memory and refill, safe in the knowledge you've got a 6/6 there to help out. If you can force it vs control you should win that too.
After board, i think Sphinx would be good, but i expect control to start playing more To The Slaughter to deal with Planeswalkers and Hydras, and Sphinx is collateral damage.
Catalog seems a bit iffy at first, but it serves a purpose. It digs a bit and filters your hand (vs control you can dump that Fatal Push that is doing nothing). It is also another free spell to cast of Yahenni's Expertise. I started with 3 Hieroglyphic Illumination, and then cut one for a Catalog, and after testing I found room for a second Catalog, it plays so well.
I've got the 4th Liliana in the board for the Vehicles matchup, as it kills a lot of guys, but if vehicles/zombies does die off a bit (it should, i think it loses to the BG and RG decks), then that could be a Sorin. I'd love to squeeze Sorin in the main, but he costs 6 and that pushes the deck's curve just a bit too high.
Anyway, happy to get any feedback offered.