"Officially", no, a silver bordered card is not "legally" allowed in Commander according to the official rules committee mtgcommander.net rules, which is what the rules come from. However Commander is not a sanctioned format by WotC, and never will be (by nature of design of the format, it is too unbalanced for it to be truly competitive), so the rules are more like guidelines to follow to keep the games streamlined for what you would expect walking into a random store or online. I would hope that if you played enough games with around the same 8-12 people, they wouldn't mind mixing it up and allow you to try one of the new legendary creatures from an Un-set for some laughs or new creative options. I know I wouldn't care, it's Commander, who gives a rat's ass - the format is designed for laughs and over the top plays you can't do in any other format.
This could be used with a Life from the Loam loop, but, TBH, there are better things you can do with that.
Dat templating. (Clue: Cycling is discarding, either to draw something or to tutor something like a basic land or a forest or a sliver.) Yeah, I know, it's probably for new players, but still...
Yeah, can someone please give me a explanation as to why these cards say "if you cycle or discard"? Other than making it a little bit clearer for newer players, it could have just said "whenever you discard a card" and just leave out the cycling part, right? The cycling part is totally pointless unless someone can please enlighten me.
They explained it in an article on their website. It is indeed partly to make it easier for newer players, and players who aren't as enfranchised, so as to avoid confusion as whether cycling counts as discarding. Originally, these cards only got the bonus from cycling as they were intended to be cycling enablers, but they were juiced a bit by letting them trigger off any discard to make them less parasitic (They now work with looting and allowed them to create a discard as cost sub theme in the set). They left the reference to cycling both to lessen confusion for new players (as they can look at the card and understand how it works even if they don't understand that cycling counts as discarding), as well as to be a signal during draft that these are cycling support cards and that cycling is a major theme that a deck that can be built around rather than just a "flow" mechanic like a cantrip. Its part of MARO's philosophy that nonfunctional text that makes things more clear is often a good thing. This is borne from the problem in Masques Block where there were a number of new mechanics with no official name, and many players thought that there were no new mechanics because there weren't keywords. Ability words are the biggest change brought about by this (ability words don't have any rules meaning, they are basically flavor text that signals a theme), but other smaller changes were also made, this being one of them.
Thank you for the clear explanation, it still baffles me why they would think a new player wouldn't be able to understand discarding a card does an effect. That is one of the simpliest terms in any card/board game ever for anyone to understand. Adding cycling as a keyword causes more confusion to new players and long time experienced players such as myself. I disagree with Rosewater's design philosophies such as this, because adding cycling seems very extraneous, redundant and borderline conflicts with the rules in the strictest sense.
This could be used with a Life from the Loam loop, but, TBH, there are better things you can do with that.
Dat templating. (Clue: Cycling is discarding, either to draw something or to tutor something like a basic land or a forest or a sliver.) Yeah, I know, it's probably for new players, but still...
Yeah, can someone please give me a explanation as to why these cards say "if you cycle or discard"? Other than making it a little bit clearer for newer players, it could have just said "whenever you discard a card" and just leave out the cycling part, right? The cycling part is totally pointless unless someone can please enlighten me.
lol, nearly every reply here is artifacts that can go in any deck, so they aren't "white ramp". Can any of you name actual mono white cards that are *just white* that are true land ramp, and not just lands that are put into your hand or land fixing? Like for example, Kor Cartographer, Planar Birth (with lands in your graveyard), Oath of Lieges...?? Land Tax, Tithe, Knight of the White Orchid are NOT ramp!
Every card you mentioned has already been mentioned in the thread. Oh and Knight of the White Orchid IS in fact ramp. One of Mono-white's weaknesses is mana acceleration. That's how the color pie works. Its not uncreative or unimaginative to use artifacts. Coming into a thread and being an unnecessary douchebag does literal nothing for anyone.
Using Sol Ring or Worn Powerstone as a crutch just to say, "ramp is just white's weaknesses" is the very definition of lazy, boring, uninspired, uncreative junk. I provided an example for white ramp with Planar Birth, which absolutely no one before me in this thread mentioned. Planar birth is white ramp, and a hidden gem that can be used a million times more creativly than Sol Ring. If you're just relying on artifacts for ramp in a mono white deck, then you are no longer playing a white deck. It becomes the same artifact deck that everyone else plays with a splash of white. Yawn.
lol, nearly every reply here is artifacts that can go in any deck, so they aren't "white ramp". Can any of you name actual mono white cards that are *just white* that are true land ramp, and not just lands that are put into your hand or land fixing? Like for example, Kor Cartographer, Planar Birth (with lands in your graveyard), Oath of Lieges...?? Land Tax, Tithe, Knight of the White Orchid are NOT ramp!
The fact is, that in EDH mono-white needs/benefits from the use of artifacts to accomplish ramp
or Pseudo ramp like effects, just as mono-white needs help from artifacts with card drawing
and card filtering.
Every single person who has replied to the OP's request has offered both viable and legitimate
solutions for increasing and/or gaining access to mana in a mono-white deck, please don't
disparage everyone's efforts in trying to be helpful.
Your "fact" of relying or needing artifacts is ultimately lazy and uncreative deckbuilding, which is exactly the point of my post. Throwing Worn Powerstone for example into a mono white deck isnt ramp, its pure mindlessness that will make all of your non green mono color decks exactly the same. I wouldn't call a suggestion of recommending Land Tax as ramp, it 100% factually isn't ramp. It does not put you ahead in lands, it mearly gaurantees land drops for as long as you get lands from it. It isn't a legit or viable solution when it isnt land ramp. Using an artifact to put lands from your hands doesn't count either, because again, you are relying on artifacts.
The OP's thread title is literally named MONO WHITE RAMP IDEAS. Again, it isn't viable or legit when the cards mentioned are literally not white cards or land ramp. Use your imaginations people.
lol, nearly every reply here is artifacts that can go in any deck, so they aren't "white ramp". Can any of you name actual mono white cards that are *just white* that are true land ramp, and not just lands that are put into your hand or land fixing? Like for example, Kor Cartographer, Planar Birth (with lands in your graveyard), Oath of Lieges...?? Land Tax, Tithe, Knight of the White Orchid are NOT ramp!
For those saying the price is gouging, the regular foils for these add up to $179 on StarCityGames right now so this isn't crazy at all. It's not even really a markup. If they'd gone any less it'd go as far as to undercut the already existing market.
Whether or not you'd want them for the art is a whole other story though, and while I don't think it's that bad I don't think it's better than the originals.
(also sorry if this is a bit of a necro, came across these just now and saw this thread with nobody pointing out it's not a bad price after all)
Even if you recognize this is a thread necro, is it really that compelling and current of a subject that you HAD to comment on this 3+ months later? Kinda weird dude.
I currently have not used magic online ever but as I work 2nd shift I do not get to play as much commander as I would like. I would love to hear form the people on here that play on magic online how is your experience on there? Does it just bug out to much? Do you get a lot of games in during the day. Just looking for general feed back from users of MOL who play commander.
I signed up for MtGO, but I was instantly turned off to the fact that there is no way for you to buy cards all at once for your Commander deck. You have to buy individual event tickets at $1 each, and then have to haggle/trade with either bots or people for tickets. It is a system that will take you weeks to get a single deck starting out from scratch. Also, there are quite a few cards that aren't on MtGO. My advice is just use Cockatrice, even though it is one of the most troll filled toxic programs I have ever used. It unfortunately is the only and best option.
If the monarch leaves the game without being dealt combat damage (decking out, losing to noncombat damage, Door to Nothingness, etc.), the monarchy is over.
Well, yeah, if a player dies with any annoying/difficult or impossible effect to remove (like an emblem for example) then of course the effect will end. I know what you're saying that in a 4 player multiplayer game that means the other 3 players who aren't the monarch won't have to worry about it being passed around anymore, but at that point with 3 players left hopefully the game would be over soon anyways.
The biggest issue that I have with the Monarch mechanic is that it never goes away once it has been entered into the game. There is literally nothing in the entire game to interact with a player being the monarch. It permanently changes the entire game and there is nothing any player can do about it.
Also depending on your group, my personal experience is that players forget they are the monarch or forget to bring the monarch card to notate it. The card makes it easier to keep track of what is going on, and other markers like dice or face down regular mtg cards just get confusing with all the other cards on the table.
Anyways, this card itself isn't that impressive. It doesn't do a whole lot mechanically with the monarch, even if you go heavy on a punisher theme. The artwork and name is pretty cool though. 4/10 would probably not use.
I have been playing Magic for about 10 years (on and off). I started playing during Planar Chaos (I played 60 cards singleton format). Then I started play competitively (type 2 format) during Alara and Zendikar blocks. Following that I took a long break and started to play again end of last year (2016). I gravitated towards Commander format because it similar to the singleton format that I played when i first started. Moreover, I can still use my old cards and don't have to worry about drop of value of the cards when it rotates out.
I was very surprised at the power level of the 'new' commander cards. The likes of Mizzix of the Izmagnus, Animar, Soul of Elements, Meren of Clan Nel Toth and many more. This cards borderline breaking the format because of the advantage of their give and also the very 'easy' nature for the player to build around them (they basically half the engine). I feel this hinder the ability of the players for deck-building given the nature of the commander. Commander likes Sen Triplets, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Thraximundar, Captain Sisay and many more that weren't built solely for commander purpose I consider to be "Blue sky" commander can be played in numerous way that it doesn’t have to depends on the commander itself. In that sense it makes the deck more resilient since it doesn’t have a single way to win the game.
Truly, there is one player in my current play group that only play with this so called “New Age Commander”. He plays Meren of Clan Nel Toth, Mizzix of the Izmagnus, Kess, Dissident Mage and Derevi, Empyrial Tactician. And every time I play with him, I always ended up wondering, “Man..that is so easy to pull off” or “Wow…he can do that over and over”. That actually lead me to write this thread. Moreover, looking at the tier list in Tappedout, all the top tier list is plagued with this “New Age Commander” that have no other purpose to be created than just for commander player.
Anyway, what do you guys think? Please don’t take it personally if you play commanders that I mentioned, I just want to have a good discussion
You officially lost me at saying Captain Sisay doesn't have to be played one way. Every Sisay deck is virtually identical by virtue of Sisay's ability just screaming to make you play Legendary cards.
So to summarize what you are saying, company appealing to lowest common denominator = smart.
I am not suggesting it should always occur that way, but for a person/company/group that wants a certain result, it isn't necessarily the wrong approach. But, that summary is an oversimplification of what I was saying.
In any case, your premise is flawed as they are not pandering to the lowest common denominator. People like DFCs. Just because you don't doesn't make you superior to them.
And, to Tiro of Meletis's point, this is going wildly off topic. We have about a month to go until this is released so we will see the list of included cards in 3-4 weeks time. I am interested to see what cards they chose. Delver and Huntmaster seem like obvious includes. We will also have some less than steller inclusions as every FtV set has those.
In the case of DFC's and regarding a fantasy card game that 12 year olds play alongside 30 year olds, I can't feel superior when I don't like DFC's or a new rules change or a new logo change. Whatever it may be it is just a card game. However I can feel superior when I say Adam Sandler movies are devoid of effort and thought, or Jake Paul is a sociopathic piece of garbage human being, because these are truths and I am superior to the moronic masses who these kinds of things cater to. It's called basic common sense intelligence, sorry if this offends the majority of you who just won't get it. I am sure most of you think this trolling, but I am sorry, as a singular entity the majority is painfully stupid and average.
I mean, the set makes itself and from what I understand, transform wasn't a popular mechanic for the majority of players. So again, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Transfrom (Innistrad, Dark Ascension, Shadows over Innistrad, and Eldritch Moon; also Magic Origins)
Popularity: Very Popular
In our market research, we've always asked about double-faced cards rather than the transform mechanic specifically (the latter is but a subset of the former), but being that every double-faced card we've done so far uses the transform mechanic, it's safe to say that the data is pretty synonymous with transform. Players love transform (and double-faced cards in general). The only things that rank above it are full-art lands, the guilds, hybrid mana, and gold cards, so one could argue it's the highest-ranking mechanic on the list of "all-time favorite mechanics."
Right, quote the biggest troll that also says in the same article madness is likely only to return if the stars align when it was in the same set as transform. Your example is near meaningless when I could find posts on this very website from players who absolutely hate double faced cards. "Market research" is about as reliable as the majority vote for Trump, people in the masses are generally kinda stupid. I would also like to point out "market research" has shown people like the large over sized Commanders, when in reality people have used them almost NONE of the time and think they are complete garbage.
"Some random person disagrees with their conclusion based on Market Research so it must all be bull".
I mean, what? Madness hadn't been seen in over 10 years when it made a return in Innistrad. It is likely not to see a true return any time soon for the reasons MaRo gave. I don't get how commenting that Madness needs the right set has anything to do with DFC being popular (or unpopular). Those two things have nothing to do with one another.
You can dislike MaRo all you want (and it seems that you dislike him quite a bit), but that doesn't change the fact that he is right in that article. I mean, look at his blog and you will see people commenting on things that should be DFC all the time. If it were up to the people asking him questions, we would see DFC's in every set.
Yes, it is unpopular for some people. That doesn't mean the majority feel it is unpopular. Everything Wizards has says it is popular and we will likely see it again (and definitely more often than Madness).
Let's assume that your comment is accurate (that the majority of people are "kinda stupid"). I vehemently disagree with this assertion, but what do you think is going to happen at Wizards if you are right? If MaRo talked to his boss and said "people love DFCs we should print as much as possible" do you really think they are going to say "but MaRo, they are dumb; we are not going to do that"? Of course not. It doesn't matter the reasons; a company is going to produce a product that people want to buy. People buy fidget spinners and made the creator of the Pet Rock a millionaire. You can claim these are stupid and the people who bought them are dumb, but the people who made all the money off those things are crying all the way to the bank.
Wizards isn't here to serve you. They are here to produce a product to make money. If DFCs make them money, they are going to create them no matter what a minority group might think. So, you can hate DFCs all you want but your comment of them being wildly unpopular is just wrong.
So to summarize what you are saying, company appealing to lowest common denominator = smart. That reasoning is why we have Donald Trump as our president, Transformer movies, remakes and reboots from now until the end of time, Jake Paul, Fidget Spinners, Mumble Rap, Coca-Cola, and insert whatever mindless mass consumer non-creative non-intelligent item here ______. Creativity is the opposite from the masses, and the masses want something safe, non-confrontational and devoid of challenge. It is not my intent to compare DFC's to the stupidity to appeal to mass consumerism and compare DFC's to the above mentioned items, I actually think DFC's are kind of cool and have interesting and creative applications within the game. However this product just makes no sense because there are so few transform cards and claiming market research to sell is a load of bull*****. My ultimate point here is that this product idea is ultimately lazy and I feel they are simply running out of ideas for FtV themes.
I mean, the set makes itself and from what I understand, transform wasn't a popular mechanic for the majority of players. So again, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Transfrom (Innistrad, Dark Ascension, Shadows over Innistrad, and Eldritch Moon; also Magic Origins)
Popularity: Very Popular
In our market research, we've always asked about double-faced cards rather than the transform mechanic specifically (the latter is but a subset of the former), but being that every double-faced card we've done so far uses the transform mechanic, it's safe to say that the data is pretty synonymous with transform. Players love transform (and double-faced cards in general). The only things that rank above it are full-art lands, the guilds, hybrid mana, and gold cards, so one could argue it's the highest-ranking mechanic on the list of "all-time favorite mechanics."
Right, quote the biggest troll that also says in the same article madness is likely only to return if the stars align when it was in the same set as transform. Your example is near meaningless when I could find posts on this very website from players who absolutely hate double faced cards. "Market research" is about as reliable as the majority vote for Trump, people in the masses are generally kinda stupid. I would also like to point out "market research" has shown people like the large over sized Commanders, when in reality people have used them almost NONE of the time and think they are complete garbage.
I don't understand what the point of this set is. There is only, what, 50 transform cards total? (I don't have the means to search for all the transform cards right now) It is like doing a best of album for a band that has only released two records. Whyyyyyyyyyyy
There's 101 (98 if you could meld cards as a single card).
Okay, so there is 101 transform cards. Now lets reduce that number to the relevant transform cards by removing the majority of irrelevant limited chaff commons and uncommons, and even some rares that never saw play casually or competitively. Being generous, let's just say that is a pool of 30 cards to choose from to make a top 15 essentially. I mean, the set makes itself and from what I understand, transform wasn't a popular mechanic for the majority of players. So again, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Thank you for the clear explanation, it still baffles me why they would think a new player wouldn't be able to understand discarding a card does an effect. That is one of the simpliest terms in any card/board game ever for anyone to understand. Adding cycling as a keyword causes more confusion to new players and long time experienced players such as myself. I disagree with Rosewater's design philosophies such as this, because adding cycling seems very extraneous, redundant and borderline conflicts with the rules in the strictest sense.
Yeah, can someone please give me a explanation as to why these cards say "if you cycle or discard"? Other than making it a little bit clearer for newer players, it could have just said "whenever you discard a card" and just leave out the cycling part, right? The cycling part is totally pointless unless someone can please enlighten me.
Using Sol Ring or Worn Powerstone as a crutch just to say, "ramp is just white's weaknesses" is the very definition of lazy, boring, uninspired, uncreative junk. I provided an example for white ramp with Planar Birth, which absolutely no one before me in this thread mentioned. Planar birth is white ramp, and a hidden gem that can be used a million times more creativly than Sol Ring. If you're just relying on artifacts for ramp in a mono white deck, then you are no longer playing a white deck. It becomes the same artifact deck that everyone else plays with a splash of white. Yawn.
Your "fact" of relying or needing artifacts is ultimately lazy and uncreative deckbuilding, which is exactly the point of my post. Throwing Worn Powerstone for example into a mono white deck isnt ramp, its pure mindlessness that will make all of your non green mono color decks exactly the same. I wouldn't call a suggestion of recommending Land Tax as ramp, it 100% factually isn't ramp. It does not put you ahead in lands, it mearly gaurantees land drops for as long as you get lands from it. It isn't a legit or viable solution when it isnt land ramp. Using an artifact to put lands from your hands doesn't count either, because again, you are relying on artifacts.
The OP's thread title is literally named MONO WHITE RAMP IDEAS. Again, it isn't viable or legit when the cards mentioned are literally not white cards or land ramp. Use your imaginations people.
Even if you recognize this is a thread necro, is it really that compelling and current of a subject that you HAD to comment on this 3+ months later? Kinda weird dude.
I signed up for MtGO, but I was instantly turned off to the fact that there is no way for you to buy cards all at once for your Commander deck. You have to buy individual event tickets at $1 each, and then have to haggle/trade with either bots or people for tickets. It is a system that will take you weeks to get a single deck starting out from scratch. Also, there are quite a few cards that aren't on MtGO. My advice is just use Cockatrice, even though it is one of the most troll filled toxic programs I have ever used. It unfortunately is the only and best option.
Well, yeah, if a player dies with any annoying/difficult or impossible effect to remove (like an emblem for example) then of course the effect will end. I know what you're saying that in a 4 player multiplayer game that means the other 3 players who aren't the monarch won't have to worry about it being passed around anymore, but at that point with 3 players left hopefully the game would be over soon anyways.
Also depending on your group, my personal experience is that players forget they are the monarch or forget to bring the monarch card to notate it. The card makes it easier to keep track of what is going on, and other markers like dice or face down regular mtg cards just get confusing with all the other cards on the table.
Anyways, this card itself isn't that impressive. It doesn't do a whole lot mechanically with the monarch, even if you go heavy on a punisher theme. The artwork and name is pretty cool though. 4/10 would probably not use.
You officially lost me at saying Captain Sisay doesn't have to be played one way. Every Sisay deck is virtually identical by virtue of Sisay's ability just screaming to make you play Legendary cards.
In the case of DFC's and regarding a fantasy card game that 12 year olds play alongside 30 year olds, I can't feel superior when I don't like DFC's or a new rules change or a new logo change. Whatever it may be it is just a card game. However I can feel superior when I say Adam Sandler movies are devoid of effort and thought, or Jake Paul is a sociopathic piece of garbage human being, because these are truths and I am superior to the moronic masses who these kinds of things cater to. It's called basic common sense intelligence, sorry if this offends the majority of you who just won't get it. I am sure most of you think this trolling, but I am sorry, as a singular entity the majority is painfully stupid and average.
So to summarize what you are saying, company appealing to lowest common denominator = smart. That reasoning is why we have Donald Trump as our president, Transformer movies, remakes and reboots from now until the end of time, Jake Paul, Fidget Spinners, Mumble Rap, Coca-Cola, and insert whatever mindless mass consumer non-creative non-intelligent item here ______. Creativity is the opposite from the masses, and the masses want something safe, non-confrontational and devoid of challenge. It is not my intent to compare DFC's to the stupidity to appeal to mass consumerism and compare DFC's to the above mentioned items, I actually think DFC's are kind of cool and have interesting and creative applications within the game. However this product just makes no sense because there are so few transform cards and claiming market research to sell is a load of bull*****. My ultimate point here is that this product idea is ultimately lazy and I feel they are simply running out of ideas for FtV themes.
Right, quote the biggest troll that also says in the same article madness is likely only to return if the stars align when it was in the same set as transform. Your example is near meaningless when I could find posts on this very website from players who absolutely hate double faced cards. "Market research" is about as reliable as the majority vote for Trump, people in the masses are generally kinda stupid. I would also like to point out "market research" has shown people like the large over sized Commanders, when in reality people have used them almost NONE of the time and think they are complete garbage.
Okay, so there is 101 transform cards. Now lets reduce that number to the relevant transform cards by removing the majority of irrelevant limited chaff commons and uncommons, and even some rares that never saw play casually or competitively. Being generous, let's just say that is a pool of 30 cards to choose from to make a top 15 essentially. I mean, the set makes itself and from what I understand, transform wasn't a popular mechanic for the majority of players. So again, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy