I've been running 3 All is Dust for a while, and I like it. I run them all main. I love that the card has synergy with Temple.
I lost a 3rd match in a row to Storm. I know it's a small sample size, but it still feels bad. I had a good winning percentage against Storm for a while, but recently it's been bad.
Last match, post board I had:
4x Relic
4x Chalice
2x Wail
2x Ratchet Bomb
I lost 2-1, in the win (on the play game 2) I had Relic, Ratchet and Chalice down, and he conceded. In the 3rd game, he gets down Baral, and I Dismember it. Then next turn I get a Ballista with 3 counters. On his turn, he plays Noxious Revival, cantrips Baral, casts him. When I get priority, I target Baral with the Ballista, and he just responds to Ballista and combos off. They just have so many ways to win, so many outs, plus Blood Moon, which if nothing else buys them time, and they only need a little. I've had an opponent Shattering Spree Chalice and Relic, I respond and exile graveyards, then he still combos and kills me. Hopefully this is just a run of bad luck and some draws will start to fall my way.
I was actually just recently doing searches for more Eldrazi in the 5-8 CMC range. I'm going to test a version of the deck with no Karn, probably no Wurmcoil - just Eldrazi and Ballista. I want to see if it feels more consistent. I hate when I'm sitting there with two Temples down, 6-7 total "Eldrazi mana", but can't cast a Karn or Wurmcoil. I may also try a 2nd Titan, maybe Butcher of Truth.
I'd like to see how that does and it makes a bit of sense. Sometimes I see E-Tron players giving themselves headaches (myself included) over whether to fetch for Temples or Tron Pieces...though Karn is pretty awesome!
Karn is great because you are guaranteed to exile 1 permanent and he has a game-ending upside if not answered. But in my experience he usually doesn't stick for a 2nd turn.
However, you raise a great point - I always tutor for Temple unless I have a clear path to Tron. And with the amount of land hate in modern, Tron can be quite hard to get or maintain in a lot of matchups.
By moving it to the side, you open up space in your deck for more threats or answers depending on how you want to approach your meta. I'm currently testing with:
2x Conduit of Ruin
1x Ulamog
1x Wurmcoil Engine
The deck isn't doing "broken things" with Chalice early in the game, but playing Ulamog at any point is pretty broken, and this configuration is by far the easiest way to get him into play. Conduit seems pretty good; I don't tutor up Ulamog unless I can cast him. Being able to cast Smasher for 3 mana or Wurmcoil for 4 mana is pretty nice. I like this go-big, threat-heavy configuration right now.... it's a lot of fun. Smile
Just a thought its not better than Wurmcoil but you could play around with Bane of Bala Ged in that slot and it is tutor-able via Conduit or Sanctum of Ugin if you run it and don't have the mana for Ulamog at the time. Whatever the case kudos to you for playing my favorite pet card.
I was actually just recently doing searches for more Eldrazi in the 5-8 CMC range. I'm going to test a version of the deck with no Karn, probably no Wurmcoil - just Eldrazi and Ballista. I want to see if it feels more consistent. I hate when I'm sitting there with two Temples down, 6-7 total "Eldrazi mana", but can't cast a Karn or Wurmcoil. I may also try a 2nd Titan, maybe Butcher of Truth.
Wizards strongly hinted in their announcement that Modern unbans are on the horizon. In a piece for Modern Nexus this morning, I went through what I believe are the five most likely candidates. Would love to hear some of your thoughts
I've been predicting an eventual SFM unban in Modern since I first got into the format, so I agree with you that's it's at the top of the list and now is likely to be unbanned after PT. But I think it will be just SFM in Feb.
Chalice is obviously a really good card, but if it was as truly amazing as some people make it out to be, it would be more prevalent in the meta. What is it used in, two decks?
Chalice is the card that is most often going to be dead itself or make something else you draw dead. It's also not an auto-win in most of the matchups where it's considered good.
I've lost plenty of times to Burn with Chalice on 1. I prefer it on 2 in the matchup, but often by the time you get to 4 lands, it's too late. And post-board, Burn will have removal (that also burns you).
I've won games against Storm with Chalice on 2, but more often than not it gets hit by Shattering Spree before they combo off. I like Relic because at least I can activate it in response to Spree. Spatial Contortion is good because it hits both Baral and Electromancer. Wail can be good if you can pull it off. Ratchet Bomb is good post-board for tokens. Cage gets Spree'd and doesn't stop tokens.
Against Affinity, Chalice feels pretty meh on the draw. Seems better as a post-board card in that matchup.
Chalice is really good against Grixis Shadow. But I feel strongly favored in that matchup with my current deck anyway. I have a 4 match win streak going against GDS. I do side in all 4.
Chalice is decent against Elves, but that matchup feels pretty miserable in spite of it.
Obviously there is nothing wrong with main decking the card, but I think bringing it in out of the side is just as valid and is more of a meta call than anything.
By moving it to the side, you open up space in your deck for more threats or answers depending on how you want to approach your meta. I'm currently testing with:
2x Conduit of Ruin
1x Ulamog
1x Wurmcoil Engine
The deck isn't doing "broken things" with Chalice early in the game, but playing Ulamog at any point is pretty broken, and this configuration is by far the easiest way to get him into play. Conduit seems pretty good; I don't tutor up Ulamog unless I can cast him. Being able to cast Smasher for 3 mana or Wurmcoil for 4 mana is pretty nice. I like this go-big, threat-heavy configuration right now.... it's a lot of fun.
Anyone else been having trouble with Storm lately? Feels like the matchup has gotten worse, as they are running lots of Blood Moon, artifact hate, and counterspells post-board. It's a small sample size, but the matchup feels like it's shifted a bit. It also probably doesn't help that I'm no longer running Mind Stone.
Just got a chance to see the results. The wheels must have really fallen off for Musser, last I checked he was 9-2 and he finished outside top 32. It's fine though, the deck has been dominating SCG for months now. Sub-par tourneys here and there are to be expected. The meta is very healthy and nothing needs to be banned.
Also, I just saw they published the list I've been running with SB Chalices. I like it quite a bit:
Funny, Chalice in the side is what I've been doing lately, didn't even know anyone else was doing it. I'm gonna run a couple more leagues with it before I draw any conclusions, but so far I'm liking it.
I dunno about Orb. I've been running 1 in my online list lately, and was running 2 before, and it's never really blown me away. Trying to decide whether to use one tomorrow for a PPTQ, or just go up to a 3rd Warping Wail, a card that's also good against Titan Shift and Storm, while helping with Affinity, Counters Company, Hatebears, etc as well.
It's working for me. I like that once I get it down, it's there, no need to hold mana up. If the opponent doesn't have artifact hate in the deck, they gg on the spot. I've seen it happen twice. I also run two Warping Wail; it's not either/or. Having more options increases the chance of drawing something impactful.
But it's not GG though. Titan shift can still play titan and mow down all your threats and buy time to find artifact removal or just kill you with the titan itself, and Storm can still just kill you with Empty. Not saying it's not a fine card in general, but it's only situationally good.
Any type of hate is only situationally good. I'm ok with making them win with Titan, at least it's a game, and I like my chances. I also run Wail, so I'm really giving up cards like Pithing Needle and Grafdigger's Cage by running Witchbane Orb. Right now I'm liking the trade-off, but of course these things are subject to change, and I am firmly in testing mode. I've changing it up every 2-3 leagues, just having fun trying different cards and seeing what works for me and the meta I'm seeing.
Congrats on your PPTQ finish and sorry to see you just miss Top8.
I dunno about Orb. I've been running 1 in my online list lately, and was running 2 before, and it's never really blown me away. Trying to decide whether to use one tomorrow for a PPTQ, or just go up to a 3rd Warping Wail, a card that's also good against Titan Shift and Storm, while helping with Affinity, Counters Company, Hatebears, etc as well.
It's working for me. I like that once I get it down, it's there, no need to hold mana up. If the opponent doesn't have artifact hate in the deck, they gg on the spot. I've seen it happen twice. I also run two Warping Wail; it's not either/or. Having more options increases the chance of drawing something impactful.
I think that we should try warping wail main deck, it exiles creatures with 1 thougness, creates a creature that produces mana (disadvantage compare to mindstone because you can use it multiple times or draw) and then counter sorcery. I think that is very relevant when it comes to face titanshift maindeck.
I recently had a game against TitanShift. Was holding up two mana for Wail, and he Shifts. I felt pretty smug as I tapped out for Wail. Then he cast a second Shift and gave me the 'ol "sry".
You know I love me some 'Mog. I actually just removed him when I tried my last test list. He's always close at hand, but honestly I find that even when I run him in the main, it rarely seems to work out that he gets cast. There just so much land hate in MTGO right now, it can be really hard to get Tron online.
Another thing about Wail ... I don't find it that great vs Storm because Past in Flames has Flashback. I think Relic and Witchbane Orb are both much better in the matchup.
Also wanted to note, I'm seeing zero Blood Moon right now. If it becomes popular again, I'd def bring back some Mind Stones.
Got my first 5-0 with the deck. It's kinda funny because I'm playing with an experimental version. Kind of a weird mix of opponents, but a couple of these are favored against me.
When I'm trying a new card, I like to put it in the main so I'm sure to see it. I'm rather underwhelmed with Oblivion Sower. The body is fine, but it never netted me any lands despite casting it a bunch. I usually got fetch lands which did me no good, or no lands at all. I imagine it's good against the mirror, Tron, maybe other Eldrazi decks. I'll probably run another couple leagues with it in the side before I form an opinion.
Witchbane Orb I like a lot. Very strong against Storm and TitanShift, both of which I see a lot online.
The swords are actually pretty cool, especially Feast and Famine. I think it's a keeper, very underrated. The green/black protection is super relevant, the discard is brutal, and oh I get to untap my lands and use my 2nd main phase or hold back mana. Sick, may go main. The others are a bit underwhelming in the deck; I haven't swapped them in much.
Basilisk Collar hasn't been impressing me lately, almost never seems like the best card to swap in. I think I'm going to swap those out for some threats, maybe bring Wurmcoil Engine back. Also thinking about giving Batterskull another look. Or maybe Crucible of Worlds ... seeing a TON of Ghost Quarter right now.
I'm also really liking Spatial Contortion in the main and having access to four. Never feels like a dead card.
A little, but the "never evolves E1, always enters as a 1/1 then gets counters via trigger" part has always been a sticking point. I think it'd be a much more viable card if it was worded to get counters as it enters the battlefield (like Unleash and Revolt creatures do), because then it would enter at its countered-up size, trigger evolves based on that, and not be so vulnerable to immediate small damage-based removal (Lightning Bolt, Kolaghan's Command, Izzet Charm, Electrolyze, it even dies to a Gut Shot!)
With the way it's worded, doesn't it mean that the G in its own cost counts toward devotion?
I'd like it a lot better if it started 3/3 for 3 mana.
On the contrary, I prefer it was a 3/2 and I'd rather it started 3/1! We want to evolve it and get that tasty trigger. If it started as a 3/3 it wouldn't evolve off an X/3 creature (like Winding Constrictor or a revolted Narnam Renegade).
Yeah, I guess that's a good point.
I'd be surprised if this card ended up being better than other 3-drops, but I haven't tested it.
Renegade Krasis is an interesting card. I might have to test that. I'd like it a lot better if it started 3/3 for 3 mana. The GG1 cost makes it friendlier to two-color decks or folks running utility lands.
This is a Mono Green Eldrazi Tron Deck that i just created, what do you guys think about it? It can work better than the regular version? Any feedback is appriciated
There was some discussion of this a while back, maybe 2 months ago. I didn't test it in real games, but I did fishbowl it quite a bit. My feeling was that either regular Tron or Eldrazi Tron are better. With so many blue decks in the meta, not having access to Cavern of Souls hurts; there is simply no room for utility lands with a splash. But I still have some interest in this idea. Let us know if you test it.
Here is the list I came up with. I'd think you would definitely want 4x Ancient Stirrings, since that card is the reason to do it. Also, you might as well use a green/black land like Llanowar Wastes or similar to help pay for Dismember and Surgical Extraction. I felt like tossing in a World Breaker is kind of a no brainer with G splash.
I lost a 3rd match in a row to Storm. I know it's a small sample size, but it still feels bad. I had a good winning percentage against Storm for a while, but recently it's been bad.
Last match, post board I had:
4x Relic
4x Chalice
2x Wail
2x Ratchet Bomb
I lost 2-1, in the win (on the play game 2) I had Relic, Ratchet and Chalice down, and he conceded. In the 3rd game, he gets down Baral, and I Dismember it. Then next turn I get a Ballista with 3 counters. On his turn, he plays Noxious Revival, cantrips Baral, casts him. When I get priority, I target Baral with the Ballista, and he just responds to Ballista and combos off. They just have so many ways to win, so many outs, plus Blood Moon, which if nothing else buys them time, and they only need a little. I've had an opponent Shattering Spree Chalice and Relic, I respond and exile graveyards, then he still combos and kills me. Hopefully this is just a run of bad luck and some draws will start to fall my way.
Karn is great because you are guaranteed to exile 1 permanent and he has a game-ending upside if not answered. But in my experience he usually doesn't stick for a 2nd turn.
However, you raise a great point - I always tutor for Temple unless I have a clear path to Tron. And with the amount of land hate in modern, Tron can be quite hard to get or maintain in a lot of matchups.
I'll test it for a few leagues.
I was actually just recently doing searches for more Eldrazi in the 5-8 CMC range. I'm going to test a version of the deck with no Karn, probably no Wurmcoil - just Eldrazi and Ballista. I want to see if it feels more consistent. I hate when I'm sitting there with two Temples down, 6-7 total "Eldrazi mana", but can't cast a Karn or Wurmcoil. I may also try a 2nd Titan, maybe Butcher of Truth.
I've been predicting an eventual SFM unban in Modern since I first got into the format, so I agree with you that's it's at the top of the list and now is likely to be unbanned after PT. But I think it will be just SFM in Feb.
Chalice is the card that is most often going to be dead itself or make something else you draw dead. It's also not an auto-win in most of the matchups where it's considered good.
I've lost plenty of times to Burn with Chalice on 1. I prefer it on 2 in the matchup, but often by the time you get to 4 lands, it's too late. And post-board, Burn will have removal (that also burns you).
I've won games against Storm with Chalice on 2, but more often than not it gets hit by Shattering Spree before they combo off. I like Relic because at least I can activate it in response to Spree. Spatial Contortion is good because it hits both Baral and Electromancer. Wail can be good if you can pull it off. Ratchet Bomb is good post-board for tokens. Cage gets Spree'd and doesn't stop tokens.
Against Affinity, Chalice feels pretty meh on the draw. Seems better as a post-board card in that matchup.
Chalice is really good against Grixis Shadow. But I feel strongly favored in that matchup with my current deck anyway. I have a 4 match win streak going against GDS. I do side in all 4.
Chalice is decent against Elves, but that matchup feels pretty miserable in spite of it.
Obviously there is nothing wrong with main decking the card, but I think bringing it in out of the side is just as valid and is more of a meta call than anything.
By moving it to the side, you open up space in your deck for more threats or answers depending on how you want to approach your meta. I'm currently testing with:
2x Conduit of Ruin
1x Ulamog
1x Wurmcoil Engine
The deck isn't doing "broken things" with Chalice early in the game, but playing Ulamog at any point is pretty broken, and this configuration is by far the easiest way to get him into play. Conduit seems pretty good; I don't tutor up Ulamog unless I can cast him. Being able to cast Smasher for 3 mana or Wurmcoil for 4 mana is pretty nice. I like this go-big, threat-heavy configuration right now.... it's a lot of fun.
Funny, Chalice in the side is what I've been doing lately, didn't even know anyone else was doing it. I'm gonna run a couple more leagues with it before I draw any conclusions, but so far I'm liking it.
Any type of hate is only situationally good. I'm ok with making them win with Titan, at least it's a game, and I like my chances. I also run Wail, so I'm really giving up cards like Pithing Needle and Grafdigger's Cage by running Witchbane Orb. Right now I'm liking the trade-off, but of course these things are subject to change, and I am firmly in testing mode.
Congrats on your PPTQ finish and sorry to see you just miss Top8.
It's working for me. I like that once I get it down, it's there, no need to hold mana up. If the opponent doesn't have artifact hate in the deck, they gg on the spot. I've seen it happen twice. I also run two Warping Wail; it's not either/or. Having more options increases the chance of drawing something impactful.
I recently had a game against TitanShift. Was holding up two mana for Wail, and he Shifts. I felt pretty smug as I tapped out for Wail. Then he cast a second Shift and gave me the 'ol "sry".
You know I love me some 'Mog. I actually just removed him when I tried my last test list. He's always close at hand, but honestly I find that even when I run him in the main, it rarely seems to work out that he gets cast. There just so much land hate in MTGO right now, it can be really hard to get Tron online.
Another thing about Wail ... I don't find it that great vs Storm because Past in Flames has Flashback. I think Relic and Witchbane Orb are both much better in the matchup.
Also wanted to note, I'm seeing zero Blood Moon right now. If it becomes popular again, I'd def bring back some Mind Stones.
2-0 U/B Mill
2-0 Five-Color Humans
2-0 Izzet Control
2-1 Storm
2-1 Abzan
Here's the deck.
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Wastes
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Walking Ballista
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Oblivion Sower
2 Endbringer
2 All Is Dust
1 Dismember
2 Karn Liberated
4 Expedition Map
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Witchbane Orb
1 Spatial Contortion
2 Basilisk Collar
2 Warping Wail
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
When I'm trying a new card, I like to put it in the main so I'm sure to see it. I'm rather underwhelmed with Oblivion Sower. The body is fine, but it never netted me any lands despite casting it a bunch. I usually got fetch lands which did me no good, or no lands at all. I imagine it's good against the mirror, Tron, maybe other Eldrazi decks. I'll probably run another couple leagues with it in the side before I form an opinion.
Witchbane Orb I like a lot. Very strong against Storm and TitanShift, both of which I see a lot online.
The swords are actually pretty cool, especially Feast and Famine. I think it's a keeper, very underrated. The green/black protection is super relevant, the discard is brutal, and oh I get to untap my lands and use my 2nd main phase or hold back mana. Sick, may go main. The others are a bit underwhelming in the deck; I haven't swapped them in much.
Basilisk Collar hasn't been impressing me lately, almost never seems like the best card to swap in. I think I'm going to swap those out for some threats, maybe bring Wurmcoil Engine back. Also thinking about giving Batterskull another look. Or maybe Crucible of Worlds ... seeing a TON of Ghost Quarter right now.
I'm also really liking Spatial Contortion in the main and having access to four. Never feels like a dead card.
Not missing Mind Stone.
Thoughts welcome.
With the way it's worded, doesn't it mean that the G in its own cost counts toward devotion?
Yeah, I guess that's a good point.
I'd be surprised if this card ended up being better than other 3-drops, but I haven't tested it.
There was some discussion of this a while back, maybe 2 months ago. I didn't test it in real games, but I did fishbowl it quite a bit. My feeling was that either regular Tron or Eldrazi Tron are better. With so many blue decks in the meta, not having access to Cavern of Souls hurts; there is simply no room for utility lands with a splash. But I still have some interest in this idea. Let us know if you test it.
Here is the list I came up with. I'd think you would definitely want 4x Ancient Stirrings, since that card is the reason to do it. Also, you might as well use a green/black land like Llanowar Wastes or similar to help pay for Dismember and Surgical Extraction. I felt like tossing in a World Breaker is kind of a no brainer with G splash.
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Forest
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
2x Wastes
Artifact (6)
4x Expedition Map
2x Oblivion Stone
Instant (2)
2x Dismember
2x Endbringer
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Walking Ballista
1x World Breaker
Sorcery (6)
2x All Is Dust
4x Ancient Stirrings
Planeswalker (3)
2x Karn Liberated
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Dismember
1x Hangarback Walker
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Spatial Contortion
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Warping Wail
1x Wurmcoil Engine
I like this list and think it would be fun to play in a control-light meta, maybe a FNM. But not MTGO, at least not now.
Also, I think you probably have to move Chalice to the side ... with this list, I'd just swap it for Ancient Stirrings if I needed it.