And has anyone considered running Dosan the Falling Leaf in a more midrangey build since shapers S release ?
I thought about using it in the sideboard. Would be solid vs control matchups, but I would prefer Prowling Serpopard for that purpose. With Dosan, you lose the ability to play combat tricks during your opponent's attack, which is a pretty serious nonbo.
@ambulance9102
I have a similar version of the deck with a lot of Warping Wail and Spatial Contortion. I haven't had a lot of success with it, but tbh I haven't played a ton of leagues with it. Also, I prefer Sorcerous Spyglass because the information about what is in the opponents hand is extremely valuable. Phyrexian Revoker is a creature so is much easier to remove.
@mtgnorin
I haven't tried running a bunch of Relics main. Maybe I should. It definitely makes the deck smaller, and it will incidentally give us solid hate vs graveyard decks game 1.
@WarMachinePrime
Yeah, we've talked about Filigree Familiar before. If it was 2 mana, we'd be in business. But we need to be doing something better on turn 3, and Matter Reshaper often gets dropped on turn 2 with Temple. If turn 3 Matter Reshaper is our start, we're usually in trouble.
The #1 thing that separates our deck from most of the decks that we face is our lack of card draw and filtering. It just seems like whatever deck we are playing, they have the answers when they need it more often than not. For us, we are usually in the mode of hoping for great draws the hoping to topdeck what we need.
I will almost always chump with a Reshaper if I can, just to see another card. Getting a free land onto the battlefield ahead of curve is worth it IMHO. Endbringer can get us cards, but it's slow. Seagate is nice but it's only a factor in really grindy games, which doesn't happen that often (especially in this meta).
I was playing with Bottled Cloister for a while, and it was great when it worked out. But I found myself always siding it out game 2 for fear of artifact hate, so it kind of felt like a wasted spot a lot of times. I might try it again after my tournament.
I just really feel like what we need to get a leg up on the competition is better early card draw/filtering.
Its too bad Culling Scales wasn't 2 cmc instead of 3 cmc. It could be a decent sideboard card vs. the 5 color Humans with an ability to take out a Champion, Hierarch or Vial on turn 3. As it stands you have to wait until upkeep of turn 4 and it might be too late by then. Gotta keep searching.
That's an interesting card. Mind Stone or Warping Wail won't help getting it out any earlier either.
WrenchMind, I like your list. Some interesting ideas in the sideboard, especially Fog. One of my favorite old school cards.
If you want a 4-drop, I'd personally go with Thrun, the Last Troll over Surrak. I like Thrun, just don't feel like getting 4 lands by turn 4/5 is super reliable.
I agree with you, thrun is better and in fact I think I'll replace surrak for him. But I feel that you would fill differently that hole, so I ask to you what card you would put in there?
I prefer to stay with creatures 3 mana and under. I've tried and like both Groundbreaker and Predator Ooze as one-ofs. Both give 3 devotion. Groundbreaker is a win-this-turn play, whereas Predator Ooze is more for the long game where the board stalls out. PO is hard to deal with and can get big fast.
I use my fetches from my G/W deck, didn't buy them for this deck. I'd buy two more if I was to get serious about this deck. I'll be adding two of the big dinos in a few months just because.
After back to back demoralizing 1-4's in competitive leagues, I decided to fire up Remember the Titans for a league ... and got 4-1. Lost to Eldrazi and Taxes (hate that match), beat Jeskai Control, GB Tron, the mirror, and Tooth and Nail.
Don't know how sicsmoo manages 17 leagues in a week ... I barely have time for 5 or so.
FWIW, here are the 1-4 comp league records. Small sample size, but it felt bad.
L 2-1 Dredge
L 2-0 Affinity
W 2-0 Eldrazi Tron
L 2-1 RG Ponza
L 2-1 Mardu Midrange
L 2-0 Jeskai
L 2-1 Four Color Death's Shadow
L 2-0 GB Tron
L 2-0 Humans
W 2-0 Elves
Agree with a lot of the comments above. Changing the font is a mistake. They could have kept the font and made a metallic finish looking logo. That might look pretty cool. It's not like the new font is completely awful, it's just bland, and doesn't really vibe with the flavor of the game IMHO.
The reason I prefer Narnam Renegade over Wasteland Viper or other 1-drops is that it can trigger extra counters on Avatar. But you need to run at least 4 fetches, probably 6 would be better tho.
Talk of these Phyrexian cards got me thinking about Norn's Annex. Might be interesting as a one-of in the board. Attacking would be pretty painful for the go-wide decks.
Here's what I'm testing with now on MTGO. I made a few tweaks from what I posted above. I don't think it's too out-there. I'm gonna play 15-20 league games before I think about making changes.
I piloted Storm for a long time (shocker, I know), and the deck really struggles if Goblin Electromancer/Baral gets removed.
If your deck can't remove a 1/3 or a 1/2, I'm not sure what to say. T-Seize, IoK, and LotV greatly hinder the decks gameplan.
The deck can win on Turn 3, but it needs Elecromancer, and the opponent to basically do nothing to do it.
I've had Storm players combo off in response to the removal. It's incorrect to think creature removal can reliably stop the deck.
You kill the creature before they get the turn back. In order to cast a creature and cast a ritual spell in the same turn it needs to be t4 for them to go off in response to removal and even if they do it takes 2 rituals, some very specific lands, and they can't do anything at sorcery speed so they need a good amount of their hand to be manamorphose and such.
Yup, it happens. I removed a Baral twice in a turn once. He played Baral, I removed it, then it was Noxious Revivaled, then cantripped, recast, then he comboed off in response to my 2nd removal. Of course he had a good hand, a deep graveyard, and had already cast Past in Flames... the deck is resilient.
Guys, gut shot is the key vs. Affinity, humans and other go wide decks like elves. You all should try more then only netdecks. Even against company its great because stopping combo and fight against turn 1 mana dork without loosing tempo. This is time of gut shot in a meta where chalice is bad. No slow oblivions, all is dust and other 24 mana spells. Believe me, your opponents will be surprised
Interesting idea. Has anyone actually tested this? It's cool that you can cast it for 0 mana, but it's a lot narrower than Wail or Contortion. BUT being able to cast it when tapped out to play a creature is meaningful. It's only 4 cents online so I'll probably give it a go...
WrenchMind, I like your list. Some interesting ideas in the sideboard, especially Fog. One of my favorite old school cards.
If you want a 4-drop, I'd personally go with Thrun, the Last Troll over Surrak. I like Thrun, just don't feel like getting 4 lands by turn 4/5 is super reliable.
I'm not venting or complaining. I was trying to participate in the discussion. Thanks for posting a great example about why no one wants to participate in this thread. Bye.
I thought about using it in the sideboard. Would be solid vs control matchups, but I would prefer Prowling Serpopard for that purpose. With Dosan, you lose the ability to play combat tricks during your opponent's attack, which is a pretty serious nonbo.
I have a similar version of the deck with a lot of Warping Wail and Spatial Contortion. I haven't had a lot of success with it, but tbh I haven't played a ton of leagues with it. Also, I prefer Sorcerous Spyglass because the information about what is in the opponents hand is extremely valuable. Phyrexian Revoker is a creature so is much easier to remove.
@mtgnorin
I haven't tried running a bunch of Relics main. Maybe I should. It definitely makes the deck smaller, and it will incidentally give us solid hate vs graveyard decks game 1.
@WarMachinePrime
Yeah, we've talked about Filigree Familiar before. If it was 2 mana, we'd be in business. But we need to be doing something better on turn 3, and Matter Reshaper often gets dropped on turn 2 with Temple. If turn 3 Matter Reshaper is our start, we're usually in trouble.
I will almost always chump with a Reshaper if I can, just to see another card. Getting a free land onto the battlefield ahead of curve is worth it IMHO. Endbringer can get us cards, but it's slow. Seagate is nice but it's only a factor in really grindy games, which doesn't happen that often (especially in this meta).
I was playing with Bottled Cloister for a while, and it was great when it worked out. But I found myself always siding it out game 2 for fear of artifact hate, so it kind of felt like a wasted spot a lot of times. I might try it again after my tournament.
I just really feel like what we need to get a leg up on the competition is better early card draw/filtering.
It's definitely a bit slow, and it's conditional.. but the exile is nice, and with our creatures, this could hit just about anything.
That's an interesting card. Mind Stone or Warping Wail won't help getting it out any earlier either.
Of course it will eventually destroy itself, too.
I prefer to stay with creatures 3 mana and under. I've tried and like both Groundbreaker and Predator Ooze as one-ofs. Both give 3 devotion. Groundbreaker is a win-this-turn play, whereas Predator Ooze is more for the long game where the board stalls out. PO is hard to deal with and can get big fast.
I use my fetches from my G/W deck, didn't buy them for this deck. I'd buy two more if I was to get serious about this deck. I'll be adding two of the big dinos in a few months just because.
Don't know how sicsmoo manages 17 leagues in a week ... I barely have time for 5 or so.
FWIW, here are the 1-4 comp league records. Small sample size, but it felt bad.
L 2-1 Dredge
L 2-0 Affinity
W 2-0 Eldrazi Tron
L 2-1 RG Ponza
L 2-1 Mardu Midrange
L 2-0 Jeskai
L 2-1 Four Color Death's Shadow
L 2-0 GB Tron
L 2-0 Humans
W 2-0 Elves
Here's what I'm testing with now on MTGO. I made a few tweaks from what I posted above. I don't think it's too out-there. I'm gonna play 15-20 league games before I think about making changes.
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Wastes
Creatures
2 Endbringer
1 Hangarback Walker
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Walking Ballista
2 Karn Liberated
Spells
2 All Is Dust
2 Dismember
3 Spatial Contortion
3 Warping Wail
Artifacts
1 Batterskull
4 Expedition Map
1 All Is Dust
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Warping Wail
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Yup, it happens. I removed a Baral twice in a turn once. He played Baral, I removed it, then it was Noxious Revivaled, then cantripped, recast, then he comboed off in response to my 2nd removal. Of course he had a good hand, a deep graveyard, and had already cast Past in Flames... the deck is resilient.
I've had Storm players combo off in response to the removal. It's incorrect to think creature removal can reliably stop the deck.
Interesting idea. Has anyone actually tested this? It's cool that you can cast it for 0 mana, but it's a lot narrower than Wail or Contortion. BUT being able to cast it when tapped out to play a creature is meaningful. It's only 4 cents online so I'll probably give it a go...
If you want a 4-drop, I'd personally go with Thrun, the Last Troll over Surrak. I like Thrun, just don't feel like getting 4 lands by turn 4/5 is super reliable.