I'm planning to test 4 Meddling Mage instead of 4 Spreading Seas in the sideboard for Eldrazi matchup. I've tried 4 Spreading Seas in the SB and 2 Rejection, while it delay them for a few turns, they usually get out of the soft land lock eventually.
Meddling Mage is like pseudo Chalice of the Void, naming TKS and Reality Smashers. I will be pretty happy if my Eldrazi opponent will PTE/Dismember my Mage early game, giving way to Spell Queller to stick permanently as their list usually run 3-4 spot removals. And if were able to untap and protect the Mage with counterspells/Queller, that means that no TKS and Smasher will hit the board.
Piloted Harlan's Geist list, with minor tweaks:
-2 Electolyze
-1 Spell Snare
-1 Mana Leak
+1 Logic Knot
+1 Glimmer of Genius
+1 Steel of the Godhead (tech card that I've been testing)
+1 Vendillion Clique
I see his logic about Electrolyze complementing your 3dmg spell to finish off big Eldrazis (TKS, Drowner) and not get 2-for-1, but never did find myself lacking removal with snapcaster mage + PTE. I think the correct number is 2, just to clear off dorks/vizier/skyspawner/souls shennigans.
The Steel of Godhead gets your free wins if you stick a T3 GST into T4 Steel. The deck is pretty nice to pilot, and you always want to slam a T3 Geist, even though your behind on-board, especially if you have Cryptic in hand to race the opponent's team.
I'm not sure though about 4 Ceremonious Rejection in the SB, maybe it's a meta call since he expect a lot of Eldratron during that tournament. I'm still having trouble finding the correct sideboarding vs Bant Eldrazi, because they have Cavern.
What is the current position of Bant Eldrazi in the current meta? I'm slowly trying to build this deck, but seeing it pushed to developing competitive looks weird. Is Colorless Tron much better choice in the meta, because of the surge in DSA decks?
Won both games vs Tron on the back of T3 geist (2-0) a piece. Didn't have the chance to test against Abzan Coco/Vizier combo, but I think the matchup is favorable to us, especially post sideboard where 2 Surgicals are there to remove their combo pieces, and they become bad Abzan deck while we beat them with GST, Angels and Dragons. Stormbreath Dragon is flexi spot, as there's a lot of Path to Exile decks right now in the meta, not mentioning it is also good vs lingering souls token strategies.
The Steel of the Godhead wins games, if your curve T3 GST then T4 Steel, opponents scoop unless they play Lily. G2 I remove it depends on the matchup. Very good card when you are racing your opponents life total, it can even outrace Smashers without any problem.
@ABagofLobster Thanks for the good card by card analysis. How does cutting AV doing for you? Though we know AV is a very powerful card draw, sometimes ***** still happens and we didn't draw the card we need on a particular situation. I'm considering running AV + Serum package similar to Greg Orange list that won GP San Antonio. These two in combination should pretty much get what you need in every situation.
But there's list like yours that run 4 Serum + 1 Sphinx's Rev which are also doing fine I guess. I might give it a whirl on my LGS tomorrow and see how it goes. For reference, here's what I would take on the next local event:
1 Gideon Jura
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Im planning to add at least 1 more solid finisher to the deck, as sometimes if we didnt draw Elspeth on time, our opponents will just recover eventually while we durdle finding our finishers. Battled 2 colorless drazi, and my Colonnades were shut down. Little gid and big gid is not enuf to close games fast.
What do you think of adding 1 Aetherling or maybe Sphinx of Final Word?
Everything will come in except Timely and Verdict. Leyline is our best hope to shut down discard and shredder. RIP is to shutdown their surgical and Ruins. Stony and Needles are obvious.
Im running 3 little gideons at the moment, and planning to bump it into 4. He is a multi purpose card which both helps in control and aggro.
I have tested the theAllers list and it Gideon+Wall and AF+AV seems to work pretty great together. Im running 2 AF and I believe it is the right number. The deck totally crushed aggro decks, but having problems beating other control decks like Lantern and Prison.
@BloodyRabbit can you post your updated list of AF/AV version. My meta is burn and DSA, which I find Gideon to be more useful as compared to AF. Which is also the reason why I removed AF completely on my build.
Though I will try 2 Gideon 2 AF split, and see how it goes.
The goal of a control deck is simple, survive the early turns (usually T1-T4), and pull ahead of cards mid game (T5-T8), then drop a finisher to close out games (T9 onwards).
As foretold is obviously not a turn 3 play, as it does not interact with the board. Unless you are playing a control mirror it is an acceptable T3 play. AF as we can falls into the mid game category, where you need to pull ahead of cards by removing suspend on our AV.
So my take on this is, its a personal preference whether you want to include AF in your list or not. It is not a staple by all means, but whatever tickles your fancy, you are free to do so.
And lastly, don't play Scour, just don't. We already have AV and Sphinx's Rev. Draw-Go game is just not the way to go for UW right now, given with Thoghtseize/Inquisition/Brutality meta we are facing at the moment.
@GustavitoHouses I totally agree with, because even in burn matchup where they fetch 2 shocklands during their first 2 turns, chaining spreading seas will get them off boros charm or atarkas command.
I think I'm okay not running seachrome coast, since my list does not run Serum + AV package. I might test to run 1-2 As Foretold, replacing 1 Negate and 1 Condemn in the MB. The main benefit of AF for me is removing the suspend of late game top decked AV. But then again, if the game goes too late (i.e. turns 7+), I'd rather be casting Sphinx Rev or jamming Elspeth into the board, rather than playing AF, then waiting to top deck an AV.
Tapping out to cast AF makes you vulnerable to your opponent's threat next turn. Depending on the situation, it is better to deploy a wall/seas + path open on T3, or jam small gideon and hold their big attacker next turn. In some cases, you just play draw go and pretend you have a counter heavy hand.
I chose not to play As Foretold in my version because of my aggro meta. Even if you go to the AF + Tolaria West + Restore Balance route, it still too cute and too much effort to sweep the board compared to just straight up Verdict/Wrath. There's no harm if you opt to play AF in the UW shell, but I think it's just an icing on the cake during mid/late game, where we are already winning. Maybe 1-2 is just the right number I suppose.
Is there any reasons why we should be playing both Serum and Ancestral Visions? I saw the list of Greg Orange from GP San Antonio, and he is on 23 lands with Serum + AV package. I've tested the 23 lands AV package only, and it seems fine with me, since I'm also running 3 Wall of Omens and 3 Spreading Seas. And it seems mandatory to run 4 Seachrome Coast if you choose the Serum + AV package, which makes you soft vs Blood Moon.
Performs pretty well against Eldrazi and DSA meta, and the little Gideons soak a lot of damage against burn, as they need to attack it or waste burn spells to kill it, saving you tons of life.
Meddling Mage is like pseudo Chalice of the Void, naming TKS and Reality Smashers. I will be pretty happy if my Eldrazi opponent will PTE/Dismember my Mage early game, giving way to Spell Queller to stick permanently as their list usually run 3-4 spot removals. And if were able to untap and protect the Mage with counterspells/Queller, that means that no TKS and Smasher will hit the board.
-2 Electolyze
-1 Spell Snare
-1 Mana Leak
+1 Logic Knot
+1 Glimmer of Genius
+1 Steel of the Godhead (tech card that I've been testing)
+1 Vendillion Clique
I see his logic about Electrolyze complementing your 3dmg spell to finish off big Eldrazis (TKS, Drowner) and not get 2-for-1, but never did find myself lacking removal with snapcaster mage + PTE. I think the correct number is 2, just to clear off dorks/vizier/skyspawner/souls shennigans.
The Steel of Godhead gets your free wins if you stick a T3 GST into T4 Steel. The deck is pretty nice to pilot, and you always want to slam a T3 Geist, even though your behind on-board, especially if you have Cryptic in hand to race the opponent's team.
I'm not sure though about 4 Ceremonious Rejection in the SB, maybe it's a meta call since he expect a lot of Eldratron during that tournament. I'm still having trouble finding the correct sideboarding vs Bant Eldrazi, because they have Cavern.
//Lands//
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Ghost Quarter
//Creatures//
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Spell Queller
1 Vendilon Clique
2 Restoration Angel
1 Stormbreath Dragon
//Spells//
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Serum Visions
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
2 Steel of the Godhead
//Sideboard//
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Wear//Tear
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Stony Silence
1 Celestial Purge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Won both games vs Tron on the back of T3 geist (2-0) a piece. Didn't have the chance to test against Abzan Coco/Vizier combo, but I think the matchup is favorable to us, especially post sideboard where 2 Surgicals are there to remove their combo pieces, and they become bad Abzan deck while we beat them with GST, Angels and Dragons. Stormbreath Dragon is flexi spot, as there's a lot of Path to Exile decks right now in the meta, not mentioning it is also good vs lingering souls token strategies.
The Steel of the Godhead wins games, if your curve T3 GST then T4 Steel, opponents scoop unless they play Lily. G2 I remove it depends on the matchup. Very good card when you are racing your opponents life total, it can even outrace Smashers without any problem.
But there's list like yours that run 4 Serum + 1 Sphinx's Rev which are also doing fine I guess. I might give it a whirl on my LGS tomorrow and see how it goes. For reference, here's what I would take on the next local event:
1 Gideon Jura
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Wall of Omens
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Path to Exile
2 Condemn
1 Blessed Alliance
4 Serum Visions
2 Mana Leak
1 Negate
1 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Cryptic Command
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Spreading Seas
1 Detention Sphere
5 Island
3 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Dispel
3 Rest in Peace
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Stony Silence
1 Pithing Needle
1 Negate
2 Timely Reinforcements
What do you think of adding 1 Aetherling or maybe Sphinx of Final Word?
About Lantern matchup, here is my sb looks like:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 RIP
2 Stony Silence
1 Pithing Needle
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Dispel
1 Negate
Everything will come in except Timely and Verdict. Leyline is our best hope to shut down discard and shredder. RIP is to shutdown their surgical and Ruins. Stony and Needles are obvious.
Im running 3 little gideons at the moment, and planning to bump it into 4. He is a multi purpose card which both helps in control and aggro.
Moving on, how's the wall/gideon + AV/AF package performing? Seems pretty legit list to me, maybe 2 gideon/2 AF split?
Though I will try 2 Gideon 2 AF split, and see how it goes.
As foretold is obviously not a turn 3 play, as it does not interact with the board. Unless you are playing a control mirror it is an acceptable T3 play. AF as we can falls into the mid game category, where you need to pull ahead of cards by removing suspend on our AV.
So my take on this is, its a personal preference whether you want to include AF in your list or not. It is not a staple by all means, but whatever tickles your fancy, you are free to do so.
And lastly, don't play Scour, just don't. We already have AV and Sphinx's Rev. Draw-Go game is just not the way to go for UW right now, given with Thoghtseize/Inquisition/Brutality meta we are facing at the moment.
Tapping out to cast AF makes you vulnerable to your opponent's threat next turn. Depending on the situation, it is better to deploy a wall/seas + path open on T3, or jam small gideon and hold their big attacker next turn. In some cases, you just play draw go and pretend you have a counter heavy hand.
Here's my updated take:
//Lands//
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Ghost Quarters
3 Island
3 Plains
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
//Planeswalker//
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Gideon Jura
1 Jace Architect of Thought
3 Gideon of the Trials
//Creatures//
3 Wall of Omens
2 Snapcaster Mage
//Enchantment//
3 Spreading Seas
2 Detention Sphere
//Instant and Sorcery//
4 Ancestral Visions
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Path to Exile
2 Condemn
3 Cryptic Command
1 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Mana Leak
1 Negate
1 Deprive
//Siderboard//
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Pithing Needle
2 Stony Silence
3 Rest in Peace
1 Supreme Verdict
Performs pretty well against Eldrazi and DSA meta, and the little Gideons soak a lot of damage against burn, as they need to attack it or waste burn spells to kill it, saving you tons of life.