Is this a good idea or should I just leave the Abrupt Decay in there?
I am very happy with my sideboard because it has answers against the most played decks and it has been doing pretty good but if there is something that can be better please let me know.
Pulse hits Leyline of the Void, which is really the big advantage of playing a permanent-destroying spell over Thoughtseize/IoK as anti-hate. My meta has almost no leyline of the void, so I prefer Thoughtseize/IoK. I don't know if that's right or not.
Against Burn, I would never remove a Collective Brutality, ever. You can kill a Goblin Guide, drain life, take a burn spell from them, and fill up your graveyard with just one card. It's a 3-for-1 that can be backbreaking for the Burn player.
I think you're over-sideboarding. Replacing 6 cards with cards that don't loot or dredge seems bad. I think 3x Inquisition will do the same thing as 2x Inquisition + 2x Nature's Claim. Usually, if the RIP isn't in their opening hand, you will be able to get your engine going. If you've got your engine going and they topdeck a RIP, it will be very hard to draw into a Nature's Claim anyway because your looters will probably be in the (now-exiled) graveyard. The best sideboard guide for Dredge that I know of is Zen Takahashi's, and he repeats this advice:
Greetings all! I decided to play Dredge for FNM last night and boy it went well with the changes to my deck I made.
Round 1: (Opponent's deck: W/B Home Brew control & aggro) Whenever I face a deck that has black and white, I know that it would be a hard match; however, things went a lot better than expected.
Game 1: My dredges were really on point and I managed to hit things I wanted. My opponent runs mainboard Surgical Extraction which scared me a lot but they didn't hit something I couldn't win without, that being they hit Conflagrate. Sideboard Tech:
Game 2: Game one went so long, we were the only players left. That being said, my dredging went very well and I manages to win with value of my favorite card in my deck, Haunted Dead.
Round 2: (Opponent's deck: W/U Control) My meta has quite a few control players and overall run white in decks, I was dubious with deck because they have access to a lot of graveyard hate.
Game 1: My dredging was insane. Turn 1 I played Insolent Neonate, used it's ability, and I hit Narcomoeba and 2 Prized Amalgams. This game ended very quickly from me bashing my opponent early on in the game. Sideboard Tech:
Game 2: Opening hand I had some sideboard cards; needless to say, I kept it. My dredging was insane yet again, by turn 3 I had 3 Prized Amalgams on the field. On turn 4 for my opponent they dropped Detention Sphere on my Prized Amalgams. My next turn I dropped Nature's Claim to end that and from that point forward, Dredge was with me. I had lethal on board but my opponent played Cryptic Command to tap down my team but I managed to then cast Conflagrate from my graveyard without worry of it being countered for the win.
Round 3: (Opponent's deck: Naya Burn) I really don't like burn and I knew that this match would be hard to keep up with my opponent.
Game 1: Very close game this one, I was done to 1 my and opponent just kept drawing lands for a couple of turns for me to get in for lethal damage. Sideboard Tech:
Game 2: Burn just managed to get there too fast and I didn't have answers for that even if my dredging was good.
Game 3: I didn't expect my opponent to drop Rest in Peace and I messed up for my boarding in my Nature's Claim to deal with that. That being said, They managed to burn my out even though the game was close.
Round 4: (Opponent's deck: Jund) My most hated deck in Modern but generally now with Dredge, I have a lot better matchup against them. Needless to say, it was a very good match
Game 1: My dredging was just very good this tournament and i managed to hit all of what I need to be successful. My opponent played some discard spells but I pretty much like having most cards in the graveyard Sideboard Tech:
Game 2: My opponent dropped Scavenging Ooze which does wreck Dredge a lot but luckily they didn't have any mana from that to eat key cards from my graveyard and next turn I cast Conflagrate from my graveyard to get rid of it. Conflagrate won me the game from continuing to dredge Life from the Loam to get value for maximum damage.
The tournament went very well. At the end, their were five 9-pointers and I managed to get 1st place because my opponent's win percentages were better than everyone else. My card shop doesn't play out top cut and they do payout for standings; needless to say, things went well!
For those that are interested, here is my deck as of right now. I made some changes since the last time I played.
Mainbaord, I Took out Scourge Devil. I never really used it much, though when I did, it was good. In it's place I added Darkblast as another value card for dredging and also picking off 1 toughness creatures I might see.
Sidebaord, I added a third Collective Brutality. Such a good value card for us in being able to fuel card in the graveyard and able to get rid of some spells, siphon life, and get rid of creatures potentially. I took out my only Inquisition of Kozilek for the room.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, 3x Stinkweed Imp? I can't see the justification for 3x Stinkweed Imp and 3x Golgari Thug. If you need space, then go down to 2 Golgari Thugh so you can have a 4th Stinkweed Imp, right? Am I crazy? That's our best dredger!
My meta is 33% Gx CoCo Decks or Abzan Midrange, 33% Death Shadow, and 34% "other" (the "other" being mostly Ux control). Do you think this would be a good meta to try Bogles in?
I'm currently playing Dredge but I'm very frustrated with all the GY hate--Goddamn maindeck Scoozes).
Recently, in modern metagames, there’re a ton of 3 or more color decks. Many players use nonbasic land without consideration.
Think you set Blood Moon against a junk deck, your opponent being not careful about it. The pitiful pray will do nothing but draw card and set "Mountains".
Isn't that sweet?
In fact, this archetype is really good against this metagame, including Junk and UWR Control.
Introduction
This archetype was originally supposed by Kenji Tsumura, a Japanese Pro player.
What do I take out from my deck to make room for a Lightning Axe? I have a very Scooze-heavy meta. The obvious answer might be the 4th Loam, but I kind of need it to fuel my conflagrate to kill Scoozes, right?
I'm headed to an FNM-level Modern event tonight with
+ 4x Shriekhorn
- 4x Insolent Neonate
I think it's better than Insolent Neonate post GGT ban. I really like being able to mill 4 before my T2 draw step with just one card (rather than having to rely on having a Neonate AND a Thug/Stinky in hand). Also, being able to mill yourself three times at instant speed makes it very versatile.
Don't be fooled, this is NOT an anti-hate card, but instead should only be used as the grave version of Grudge, best against Boogles and enchantment matters decks.
Lantern, I noticed this in the primer and I was wondering if you could expand. If my opponent plays RIP in game 2, for example, then shouldn't I bring in my Ray of Revelations for game 3?
Got a 5-0, 10-5 grinder of a league yesterday. It took me 15 games, and at the end of the 15th, I was down to 0 cards in my library, hoping my Eldrazi Tron opponent didn't rip a Warping Wail to counter Conflagrate.
The going is rough lately. A few weeks/months ago (from the time of the GP and forward about four weeks), the meta was rotating around Death's Shadow more closely. We had Death's Shadow and mono-removal decks geared to beat it, and Dredge could easily beat those. Since, Elves, Storm, Knightfall, Vizier/Devoted Druid, and other decks have popped up that are very difficult matches. Living End is surprisingly difficult to beat in its new form. Before sideboard hate is taken into account, a good 20% of the meta is filled with bad match-ups. A non-zero percent of the meta has sideboard hate that is difficult or impossible to predict (decks in infancy, brews, a player who is changing things up), so we don't know whether to focus on enchantment destruction, discard, etc.
Aside from that, some of our sideboard hate in these match-ups is less effective. Darkblast is great against Elves and Company but doesn't stop the infinite mana combo. Storm can get 2-3 enablers Lightning Axed, Start/Finished, and Conflagrated only to rip another or go off with Empty the Warrens.
Every time I try to experiment with changes, it's frustrating because it is hard to tell why I'm getting good or bad results. Sacred Foundry may be good, Ray of Revelation may be good, sideboard into an alternative plan may be good. I dunno. I think it's good to play this deck, and I always will in paper (being an infrequent LGS player).
Agree 100%. I'm especially having trouble picking the right anti-hate.
My normal rules are:
* Expect Relic from Merfolk, non-W Tron (including Eldrazi Tron), Ad Nauseam, and anything else non-white that doesn't rely on the graveyard. Bring in artifact hate.
* Expect RIP from decks with access to W, (apart from Abzan CoCo, Knightfall, etc.). Bring enchantment hate.
* Expect Tormod's Crypt or Nihil Spellbomb against Bx and Bxy decks, including Death Shadow and Grixis Control/Delver. Bring artifact hate.
* Expect Scooze from any Gx toolbox deck and generally any Gx/Gxy fair deck. Bring Lightning Axe.
* Expect nothing from decks that can easily outrace us (Storm, Ad Nauseam, KCI, etc.). Only bring in anti-hate once I've seen it.
* Rarely expect Leyline of the Void (in my local meta it's almost non-existent, and since the GGT ban I've been seeing a lot less of it lately in general).
But lately I've run into several people splitting their GY hate between two cards. So instead of running 2x RIP in the board they'll run 1x RIP and 1x Surgical/Tormod's Crypt/Relic/Spellbomb. WTF do I board in when they're splitting their hate?
And lately my meta has gone Surgical-crazy. So I've been boarding in Memory's Journey, which feels awful because I essentially have to keep up G from turn 2 onwards.
I might just start keeping a written record of everyone's sideboard hate and bring it with me to games.
I've been getting into Modern Dredge and this primer has been super useful, thanks! I have a quick question though, why are people running 2 Ancient Grudges? Is it just for grafdigger's cage and affinity?
The meta at my LGS is almost a snapshot of the overall Modern meta, with the exception of a slightly larger number of Gx decks maindecking Scavenging Ooze. I have 3x Conflagrate and 1x Lightning Axe maindeck. Should I go any heavier on removal to deal with the Scooze threat? If not, how much of the meta would have to play Scooze to justify adding another Lightning Axe, or even a 4th Conflagrate? My Loam-Thug split is 4-3.
I'm not going to give up the chance to play Simian Spirit Guide, Blood Moon, Fulminator Mage, Beast Within, Krosan Grip, and Faerie Macabre for another sorcery speed cascader that gains some life.
I know this is going to be a weird question, but is it possible to be too bad to play Dredge?
I've been playing Magic for about a year (first Standard, then Merfolk and Living End). I play Living End (played Merfolk before) but the problem is I punt a lot. I get tired and miss triggers, rush through, etc. I want to buy into Dredge, but I know that the deck has more triggered abilities than almost any other Modern deck, so I'm wondering if I'm just too bad to play.
If anyone has any tips on how they manage all the triggers, that would be great.
I think we can keep the moon plan but mainly because I prefer to play LE more control-ly. I prefer Magus over Moon because I like the recurrence of the card and how it synergises with the deck's aims (a Magus in the gy and one on board acts as a soft-lock,
I don't see how Magus compares to Blood Moon. It's harder to get a Magus in the GY and on board than it is to just get one Blood Moon on board. Second, a Magus in the GY and on board is not hard to interact with, all they need is removal or GY hate, which they will pack anyway.
Also, why does "recurrence" matter when Magus of the Moon doesn't have ETB effects?
I like Faith of the Devoted. It's like Drake Haven in that it is an alternate plan to GY hate, but it dosen't make us ruin our manabase like Drake Haven.
I think the deck is going to change radically. People are really clinging to LD and landcyclers, but going from
(12 1-mana cyclers plus Street Wraith, landcyclers and LD)
to
(20 1-mana cyclers + 4 Street Wraith)
could make the deck way more explosive **and** consistent. With 20 one-mana cyclers, you're way less likely to get flooded, mana screwed, or not draw into the right cascader on time. You're also *way* more likely to have on-board lethal if LE resolves. Also, you won't need landcyclers because you will be drawing more cards per turn on average. And most of Fulminator Mage and Blood Moon are only nonbasic hate, so if your opponent either (a) starts fetching basics (b) is on a one or two-color deck or (c) has land tutors then your Blood Moon and Fulminator Mages are just slow durdly (and sometimes dead) cards.
For example:
4 Architects of Will
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Desert Cerodon
4 Horror of the Broken Lands
3 Living End
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Avalanche Riders
4 Street Wraith
4 Violent Outburst
4 Demonic Dread
+19 lands
I have heard of people saying they're going to put in *either* 4 Desert Cerodon *or* 4 Horror of the Broken Lands, but not both. I can't agree. The only reason you wouldn't want both is because of manabase concerns, a problem which stems from Blood Moon. But if we drop Blood Moon, we can put these amazing new fatcyclers into our deck, and we get all of the benefits I outlined above.
Pulse hits Leyline of the Void, which is really the big advantage of playing a permanent-destroying spell over Thoughtseize/IoK as anti-hate. My meta has almost no leyline of the void, so I prefer Thoughtseize/IoK. I don't know if that's right or not.
A few points:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, 3x Stinkweed Imp? I can't see the justification for 3x Stinkweed Imp and 3x Golgari Thug. If you need space, then go down to 2 Golgari Thugh so you can have a 4th Stinkweed Imp, right? Am I crazy? That's our best dredger!
I'm currently playing Dredge but I'm very frustrated with all the GY hate--Goddamn maindeck Scoozes).
Does Bogles have any terrible matchups?
Wow, worst primer on this site.
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodghast
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Cathartic Reunion
3x Conflagrate
1x Copperline Gorge
2x Dakmor Salvage
4x Faithless Looting
1x Ghost Quarter
4x Golgari Thug
1x Haunted Dead
4x Life from the Loam
2x Mountain
4x Narcomoeba
4x Prized Amalgam
4x Shriekhorn
1x Steam Vents
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Stomping Ground
3x Wooded Foothills
1x Abrupt Decay
3x Ancient Grudge
2x Darkblast
1x Gnaw to the Bone
1x Golgari Brownscale
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Lightning Axe
2x Memory's Journey
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
+ 4x Shriekhorn
- 4x Insolent Neonate
I think it's better than Insolent Neonate post GGT ban. I really like being able to mill 4 before my T2 draw step with just one card (rather than having to rely on having a Neonate AND a Thug/Stinky in hand). Also, being able to mill yourself three times at instant speed makes it very versatile.
I'll let y'all know how it goes.
Lantern, I noticed this in the primer and I was wondering if you could expand. If my opponent plays RIP in game 2, for example, then shouldn't I bring in my Ray of Revelations for game 3?
Agree 100%. I'm especially having trouble picking the right anti-hate.
My normal rules are:
* Expect Relic from Merfolk, non-W Tron (including Eldrazi Tron), Ad Nauseam, and anything else non-white that doesn't rely on the graveyard. Bring in artifact hate.
* Expect RIP from decks with access to W, (apart from Abzan CoCo, Knightfall, etc.). Bring enchantment hate.
* Expect Tormod's Crypt or Nihil Spellbomb against Bx and Bxy decks, including Death Shadow and Grixis Control/Delver. Bring artifact hate.
* Expect Scooze from any Gx toolbox deck and generally any Gx/Gxy fair deck. Bring Lightning Axe.
* Expect nothing from decks that can easily outrace us (Storm, Ad Nauseam, KCI, etc.). Only bring in anti-hate once I've seen it.
* Rarely expect Leyline of the Void (in my local meta it's almost non-existent, and since the GGT ban I've been seeing a lot less of it lately in general).
But lately I've run into several people splitting their GY hate between two cards. So instead of running 2x RIP in the board they'll run 1x RIP and 1x Surgical/Tormod's Crypt/Relic/Spellbomb. WTF do I board in when they're splitting their hate?
And lately my meta has gone Surgical-crazy. So I've been boarding in Memory's Journey, which feels awful because I essentially have to keep up G from turn 2 onwards.
I might just start keeping a written record of everyone's sideboard hate and bring it with me to games.
Grafdigger's Cage, Relic of Progenitus, Tormod's Crypt, Nihil Spellbomb, Wurmcoil Engine, Chalice of the Void, Ensnaring Bridge, and generally against Affinity, Lantern Control, and KCI/eggs.
I hate Scooze.
I've been playing Magic for about a year (first Standard, then Merfolk and Living End). I play Living End (played Merfolk before) but the problem is I punt a lot. I get tired and miss triggers, rush through, etc. I want to buy into Dredge, but I know that the deck has more triggered abilities than almost any other Modern deck, so I'm wondering if I'm just too bad to play.
If anyone has any tips on how they manage all the triggers, that would be great.
I don't see how Magus compares to Blood Moon. It's harder to get a Magus in the GY and on board than it is to just get one Blood Moon on board. Second, a Magus in the GY and on board is not hard to interact with, all they need is removal or GY hate, which they will pack anyway.
Also, why does "recurrence" matter when Magus of the Moon doesn't have ETB effects?
(12 1-mana cyclers plus Street Wraith, landcyclers and LD)
to
(20 1-mana cyclers + 4 Street Wraith)
could make the deck way more explosive **and** consistent. With 20 one-mana cyclers, you're way less likely to get flooded, mana screwed, or not draw into the right cascader on time. You're also *way* more likely to have on-board lethal if LE resolves. Also, you won't need landcyclers because you will be drawing more cards per turn on average. And most of Fulminator Mage and Blood Moon are only nonbasic hate, so if your opponent either (a) starts fetching basics (b) is on a one or two-color deck or (c) has land tutors then your Blood Moon and Fulminator Mages are just slow durdly (and sometimes dead) cards.
For example:
4 Architects of Will
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Desert Cerodon
4 Horror of the Broken Lands
3 Living End
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Avalanche Riders
4 Street Wraith
4 Violent Outburst
4 Demonic Dread
+19 lands
I have heard of people saying they're going to put in *either* 4 Desert Cerodon *or* 4 Horror of the Broken Lands, but not both. I can't agree. The only reason you wouldn't want both is because of manabase concerns, a problem which stems from Blood Moon. But if we drop Blood Moon, we can put these amazing new fatcyclers into our deck, and we get all of the benefits I outlined above.