Hey, got some more time on my hands recently, and wanted help some again. Here are the proposed sections for Double Master. I can add them as well, once they've been discussed.
Alabaster Mage (Bad)
Just a 2/1 and takes a lot of mana to get going, if you even have higher power creatures to benefit most, compared to something like Lone Missionary
Crib Swap (Borderline)
Can have some synergy with delerium or tribal cards, but generally just an alright exile for good option for white, white has some better removal options
Crusader of Odric (Borderline)
Can be a okay card if you support swarm.
Sanctum Spirit (Bad)
Would only be interesting in an artifact cube, group it with other similar 4 drops.
Argivian Restoration (Bad)
Artifact theme card and not really many great target either.
Bone Picker (Cubeable)
Morbid is easy to enable for black and a black delver of secrets for 1 mana is great.
(I could see this maybe being a solid staple though after testing)
Cast Down (Staple)
A great removal spell that's virtually unconditional. The best option in black for powerful 2 mana removal.
Heartless Pillage (Borderline) Mind Rot isn't great, but this can help accelerate out a bigger threat at the same time.
Abrade (Borderline)
There better burn options than just 3 to a creature, but this is a solid flexible card for when you want to keep artifacts in check, if your cube needs it.
Balduvian Rage (Bad?)
Pump spell replacing itself is nice, but only buffing only power isn't great, and this can take up a little too much mana for ideal use.
Rapacious Dragon (Borderline?)
Treasure can help double spell the turn you play this, but stats are kind of meh. (Maybe merge with Sparktongue Dragon entry
Thieving otter is a functional reprint, but it's so cute.
Actually has some marginal upside over previous ones since it's not just combat damage. The otter and similar are also are nice with the newDreamtail Heron
The mutate cards seem like they could be solid. Seem like solid flexibility as either aura-like effects or creatures.
Some good targets for mutate would be stuff like
Smaller creature with relevant abilities (evasive flying creatures or hexproof)
I could see Bonder's Ornament being decent in slower cubes, the card draw seems decently cheap enough for being tacked on to a mana rock. Bushmeat Poacher seems pretty solid as well, cheap sac cost for a card and decent amount of life.
Thwart the Enemy as our cheapest one-sided fog for green is kind of interesting I guess
We do already have Naga Oracle, which seems generally better, total pow/tou is the same, just redistributed, but leaning more towards toughness, but essentially has "surveil 3" instead of just "scry 2" which digs deeper and synergizes with graveyard matters stuff
+1/+1 counter support is nice to see. What are your thoughts on the other new proliferaters as well, Courage in Crisis and Kiora's Dambreaker? I'm iffy about Courge but etb proliferate on a pretty decent body for a blue 6-drop seems solid. We also have Titanic Brawl as a small payoff, one that's good enough on its own at least.
There's also a fair amount of more decent creatures with incidental counters that could help support it between mechanics like unleash, undying, fabricate, etc... there's a bunch, many of which are good already.
Ooh, seem like a solid flexible option. Solid start to spoilers at least In past constructed formats, would it be normal line to use ice to tap down a land at upkeep in the early game or not usually? Never really played it much at all in constructed myself so don't haven't much experience with it and how's it's usually played or in general.
Btw. has anyone any good ideas if we can transfer this project to somewhere else? I thought of Google docs or something similar, but I'm not really good at designing such a space. The reason is simply, that it's a huge pain to edit it in the current version, because the threads don't really support this amount of text and I could simply give out permissions to people wanting to edit the project.
I think Google docs could maybe work. Not aware of any of possible options that could be good, but I can look into setting something up just on docs at least to see if it's viable. I'll mess around and see what I can come up with. Would make thing easier.
EDIT: Google Sheets may work too, maybe better than docs
Here's the update for Masters 25. I'll work on adding it in and adjust accordingly with any further feedback/discussion that comes happens.
Fencing Ace (Borderline)
By itself, it's not great, but can get crazy with any kind of pump.
Geist of the Moors (Cubeable)
3 power combined with evasion makes for a solid card in an aggressive color.
Loyal Sentry (Borderline):
Can be a nice defensive creature with pseudo-deathtouch for more controlling white decks. Does combo nicely with flicker effects.
Dragon's Eye Savants (Bad)
Flexibilty of morph is nice on a wall, but both modes still aren't very exciting and seeing an opponent's hand is as relevant as often or as for long in limited.
Relentless Rats (Bad)
Group with similar cards that don't work in a typical cube
Ruthless Ripper (Cubeable)
Might just group with other 1/1 deathtouchers, even though it's slightly better.
Balduvian Horde (Bad)
The body is huge for the cost, but it's not really worth 2 for 1'ing yourself with the random discard, in order to play it on curve. It's also terrible against any kind of bounce.
Cinder Storm (Bad)
Group with a similar expensive burn that is outclassed by x spells
Crimson Mage (Borderline)
A repeatable haste-granting creature with a decent body is nice, but 1 mana isn't nothing and isn't always ideal early when trying to curve out.
Frenzied Goblin (Borderline):
Preventing blocking is nice, but the body is fragile and the 1-mana required every turn to use it isn't nothing and can interfere with curving out.
Hordeling Outburst (Cubeable):
This card is amazing with any kind of swarm support in your cube, and even without, 3 power worth of tokens is okay.
Jackal Pup (Cubeable):
2 power one-drops are great for agressive decks, which don't even care that much about the downside usually.
Pillage (Bad):
Group with similar land destruction spells
Court Hussar (Azorius Cubeable):
An Anticipate on a stick is solid and in slower decks, this is a nice roadblock for against agressive decks.
Skeletonize (Rakdos Borderline)
Killing a medium-sized or smaller creature and leaving behind a resilient 1/1 can sometimes be nice for more controlling-style rakos decks.
Assembly-Worker (Bad):
There aren't nearly enough Assembly-Worker creatures for this to even maybe be viable.
Thanks for the help folks. Good points. I'll adjust rankings accordingly. Just have a couple responses concerning specific cards
Yeah concerning [card]Soul of the Rapids, I leaned to Borderline with it being more of an archetype card or at least requires some consideration when cube building but I could see it at cubeable as a resilient and evasive control finisher. That or maybe some borderline creatures in that cmc slot aren't as good anymore. Could be a combination of the two also.
Giltgrove Stalker isn't really a strictly worse Wandering Wolf because just as is, wolf can be blocked by 2/X's unlike stalker. I think wolf may be more a borderline archetype card, since it require a decent amount of equipments/auras to make use of it's full potential, or at least as good as Stalker.
Luminous Bonds (Borderline):
Put with the group of similar enchantments that have no significant upside in the average cube that starts with Bound in Silence)
Martyr of Dusk (Bad):
The initial body is bad and the 1/1 with lifelink you get when it dies doesn't make it interesting.
Moment of Triumph (Borderline):
The pump isn't best, but with the extra life attached it can be nice.
Crashing Tide (Borderline):
Will mostly be a Drag Under in the average cube so group this with that
Deadeye Rig-Hauler (Bad)
The timing restriction for the bounce takes a lot of the oomph out of Man-o'-War-style cards since you can't bounce anything pre-combat and you may not even be able to make a profitable attack, in a scenario you might have been able to if you could bounce before combat.
Kitesail Corsair (Cubeable):
Could just group with the similar Welkin Tern and similar. It's slightly different of course, but I don't think it's different enough that it needs its own entry. Mostly a side-grade.
Secrets of the Golden City (Borderline):
An upgraded version of divination for the cost of an extra U in the cost. Still not very exciting though.
Soul of the Rapids (Borderline):
The body is small to begin with, but it's a good carrier of equipment and aura. It can be nice if you support the hexproof archetype.
Spire Winder (Bad):
The initial body isn't exciting and it can take a while to turn on Ascend.
Sworn Guardian (Bad):
group with the similar vanilla 1/3s
Dark Inquiry (Bad):
Group with similar bad 3 cmc discard spells (starts with Coercion)
Dinosaur Hunter (Bad)
Groupe with the other bears with fringe upsides
Dusk Charger (Borderline)
Getting bigger in the late game is nice, but the initial body isn't very exciting and black doesn't go very wide or use permanent based removal very often to help with Ascending.
Impale (Bad)
Group with other 4 cmc sorcery speed unconditionals
Moment of Craving (Cubeable)
A solid removal spell that's best against aggro but otherwise still fine and flexible. Mostly the strictly better Sorin's Thirst
Vampire Champion (Borderline)
A decent sized body that can trade with anything.
Overgrown Armasaur (Borderline):
Requires some built around with other cards like pingers to worthwhile, but can potentially make a decent amount of saprolings.
Orazca Relic (Borderline):
A 3-mana rock that only produces colorless mana isn't exciting but being able to turn it into a card and 3 life once it's no longer needed is pretty nice.
Watcher is a nice twist on sphinx. Nice for enabling graveyard stuff, even if just a little bit.
I wouldn't say that Piston-Fist Cyclops is simply a worse Nivix Cyclops. Yes, it lacks the combo kill potential if it's thing in your cube, but this is at least just as good in more regular tempo style decks. Though the benefits are limited to once per turn vs cyclops. It also is a lot better on defense. While it loses a single toughness it default has 4 power to help hold off possible attackers. It also flexible casting-wise and goes in a lot more decks than nivix can.
Patrol looks decent. Best mentor card so far probably.
It seems about one mana too expensive. It's sort of like a bigger version of Agony Warp that deals with bigger threats somewhat better but doesn't seem better in enough situations to make it worth two more mana. It's a nice combination of effects though.
Here's a low res image of Healer's Hawk from reddit
Also, Arboretum Elemental is an uncommon
Overall, initial cards don't seem the most exciting. Some initial thoughts are
Jump-start cards we've gotten so far seem overcosted for the effect or not very impactful.
Mentor is seems like more of a win-more mechanic, at least on such fragile bodies. The creatures we've seen that have it so far aren't exciting.
Moodmark Painter seems like a decent archetype support card if you support graveyard shenanigans in your cube. Will be excited to see what other support there is,
Rosemane Centaur seems like an fine 5 drop. It's not the most exciting at first glance but seems like a fine sign post card if gw is swarm in your cube.
Just a 2/1 and takes a lot of mana to get going, if you even have higher power creatures to benefit most, compared to something like Lone Missionary
Ancestral Blade (Cubeable)
A 2/2 that leaves behind a Leonin Scimitar is solid
Crib Swap (Borderline)
Can have some synergy with delerium or tribal cards, but generally just an alright exile for good option for white, white has some better removal options
Crusader of Odric (Borderline)
Can be a okay card if you support swarm.
Sanctum Spirit (Bad)
Would only be interesting in an artifact cube, group it with other similar 4 drops.
Artifact theme card and not really many great target either.
Frogify
Functional downshift of Kasmina's Transmutation (Borderline)
Vedalken Infuser (Bad)
artifact cube card at most
Morbid is easy to enable for black and a black delver of secrets for 1 mana is great.
(I could see this maybe being a solid staple though after testing)
Cast Down (Staple)
A great removal spell that's virtually unconditional. The best option in black for powerful 2 mana removal.
Heartless Pillage (Borderline)
Mind Rot isn't great, but this can help accelerate out a bigger threat at the same time.
There better burn options than just 3 to a creature, but this is a solid flexible card for when you want to keep artifacts in check, if your cube needs it.
Balduvian Rage (Bad?)
Pump spell replacing itself is nice, but only buffing only power isn't great, and this can take up a little too much mana for ideal use.
Kazuul's Toll Collector and Orcish Vandal (Bad)
Artifact cube cards
Rapacious Dragon (Borderline?)
Treasure can help double spell the turn you play this, but stats are kind of meh. (Maybe merge with Sparktongue Dragon entry
Group with Ambuscade
Conclave Naturalists (Borderline)
A fine Reclamation Sage variant if that's what you're looking for.
A 2 cmc mana rock that scales into the lategame is a fine ramp option.
Golem-Skin Gauntlets, Myr Retriever and Surge Node (Bad)
Artifact cube cards
Iron League Steed (Borderline)
Mostly alright and flexible stats for a colorless if you're looking for one.
Magnifying Glass (Bad)
Outclassed by Bonder's Ornament
Skinwing (Borderline)
A creature with a lot lategame value, although the equip is really expensive.
The mutate cards seem like they could be solid. Seem like solid flexibility as either aura-like effects or creatures.
Some good targets for mutate would be stuff like
I could see Bonder's Ornament being decent in slower cubes, the card draw seems decently cheap enough for being tacked on to a mana rock. Bushmeat Poacher seems pretty solid as well, cheap sac cost for a card and decent amount of life.
Thwart the Enemy as our cheapest one-sided fog for green is kind of interesting I guess
There's also a fair amount of more decent creatures with incidental counters that could help support it between mechanics like unleash, undying, fabricate, etc... there's a bunch, many of which are good already.
Full spoiler is up and here's the rest of the downshifts.
Also got a decent amount of new arts for existing commons like ulamog's crusher
I think Google docs could maybe work. Not aware of any of possible options that could be good, but I can look into setting something up just on docs at least to see if it's viable. I'll mess around and see what I can come up with. Would make thing easier.
EDIT: Google Sheets may work too, maybe better than docs
By itself, it's not great, but can get crazy with any kind of pump.
Geist of the Moors (Cubeable)
3 power combined with evasion makes for a solid card in an aggressive color.
Loyal Sentry (Borderline):
Can be a nice defensive creature with pseudo-deathtouch for more controlling white decks. Does combo nicely with flicker effects.
Savannah Lions (Staple)
Group with the similar Elite Vanguard
Functional reprint of Theft of Dreams
Dragon's Eye Savants (Bad)
Flexibilty of morph is nice on a wall, but both modes still aren't very exciting and seeing an opponent's hand is as relevant as often or as for long in limited.
Group with similar cards that don't work in a typical cube
Ruthless Ripper (Cubeable)
Might just group with other 1/1 deathtouchers, even though it's slightly better.
The body is huge for the cost, but it's not really worth 2 for 1'ing yourself with the random discard, in order to play it on curve. It's also terrible against any kind of bounce.
Cinder Storm (Bad)
Group with a similar expensive burn that is outclassed by x spells
Crimson Mage (Borderline)
A repeatable haste-granting creature with a decent body is nice, but 1 mana isn't nothing and isn't always ideal early when trying to curve out.
Frenzied Goblin (Borderline):
Preventing blocking is nice, but the body is fragile and the 1-mana required every turn to use it isn't nothing and can interfere with curving out.
Hordeling Outburst (Cubeable):
This card is amazing with any kind of swarm support in your cube, and even without, 3 power worth of tokens is okay.
Jackal Pup (Cubeable):
2 power one-drops are great for agressive decks, which don't even care that much about the downside usually.
Pillage (Bad):
Group with similar land destruction spells
Probably just group with Nantuko Vigilante at 3 mana.
An Anticipate on a stick is solid and in slower decks, this is a nice roadblock for against agressive decks.
Skeletonize (Rakdos Borderline)
Killing a medium-sized or smaller creature and leaving behind a resilient 1/1 can sometimes be nice for more controlling-style rakos decks.
Assembly-Worker (Bad):
There aren't nearly enough Assembly-Worker creatures for this to even maybe be viable.
Yeah concerning [card]Soul of the Rapids, I leaned to Borderline with it being more of an archetype card or at least requires some consideration when cube building but I could see it at cubeable as a resilient and evasive control finisher. That or maybe some borderline creatures in that cmc slot aren't as good anymore. Could be a combination of the two also.
Giltgrove Stalker isn't really a strictly worse Wandering Wolf because just as is, wolf can be blocked by 2/X's unlike stalker. I think wolf may be more a borderline archetype card, since it require a decent amount of equipments/auras to make use of it's full potential, or at least as good as Stalker.
Put with group of bad modal cards that starts with Alabaster Potion
Exultant Skymarcher (Cubeable):
Functional reprint of Chapel Geist
Luminous Bonds (Borderline):
Put with the group of similar enchantments that have no significant upside in the average cube that starts with Bound in Silence)
Martyr of Dusk (Bad):
The initial body is bad and the 1/1 with lifelink you get when it dies doesn't make it interesting.
Moment of Triumph (Borderline):
The pump isn't best, but with the extra life attached it can be nice.
Sanguine Glorifier (Bad):
Tribal card
Snubhorn Sentry (Bad):
The body takes way too long to be relevant.
Squire's Devotion (Borderline):
A fine aura, but it's usually still not worth the risk of card disadvantage on non-hexproof creatures.
Sun-Crested Pterodon (Bad):
Tribal Card
Sun Sentinel (Bad):
Functional reprint of Huatli's Snubhorn
Will mostly be a Drag Under in the average cube so group this with that
Deadeye Rig-Hauler (Bad)
The timing restriction for the bounce takes a lot of the oomph out of Man-o'-War-style cards since you can't bounce anything pre-combat and you may not even be able to make a profitable attack, in a scenario you might have been able to if you could bounce before combat.
Kitesail Corsair (Cubeable):
Could just group with the similar Welkin Tern and similar. It's slightly different of course, but I don't think it's different enough that it needs its own entry. Mostly a side-grade.
Mist-Cloaked Herald (Borderline):
Functional reprint of Triton Shorestalker
River Darter (Bad):
Put in the group of creatures with way-too situational abilities.
Sea Legs (Bad):
Tribal Card
Secrets of the Golden City (Borderline):
An upgraded version of divination for the cost of an extra U in the cost. Still not very exciting though.
Soul of the Rapids (Borderline):
The body is small to begin with, but it's a good carrier of equipment and aura. It can be nice if you support the hexproof archetype.
Spire Winder (Bad):
The initial body isn't exciting and it can take a while to turn on Ascend.
Sworn Guardian (Bad):
group with the similar vanilla 1/3s
Waterknot (Cubeable):
Functional Reprint of Claustrophobia
Functional reprint of Mass of Ghouls
Dark Inquiry (Bad):
Group with similar bad 3 cmc discard spells (starts with Coercion)
Dinosaur Hunter (Bad)
Groupe with the other bears with fringe upsides
Dusk Charger (Borderline)
Getting bigger in the late game is nice, but the initial body isn't very exciting and black doesn't go very wide or use permanent based removal very often to help with Ascending.
Dusk Legion Zealot (Borderline):
The black Elvish Visionary. They body isn't great, but it replaces itself at least.
Fathom Fleet Boarder (Borderline?)
Do you folks think the 1 less life loss makes this good enough to be a ranking above Serpent Warrior?
Grasping Scoundrel (Cubeable)
A fine 2 power aggressive 1-drop
Gruesome Fate (Bad)
Group with Alms of the Vein to create a group of bad life-loss cards
Impale (Bad)
Group with other 4 cmc sorcery speed unconditionals
Moment of Craving (Cubeable)
A solid removal spell that's best against aggro but otherwise still fine and flexible. Mostly the strictly better Sorin's Thirst
Vampire Champion (Borderline)
A decent sized body that can trade with anything.
Voracious Vampire (Bad)
Tribal Card
Flame Slash at instant speed can be nice but 3 mana is bit much
Brazen Freebooter (Bad)
The treasure can sometimes be nice to help double spell or fix mana but otherwise, it's just a Hill Giant
Buccaneer's Bravado (Bad)
Tribal Card
Fanatical Firebrand (Borderline)
Group with Mogg Fanatic
Frilled Deathspitter (Borderline)
A decent body with damage tacked on is nice.
Goblien Trailblazer (Cubeable)
A solid 2-power creature with evasion
Mutiny (Bad)
A neat design, but red has better options for removal.
Orazca Raptor (Bad)
Functional Reprint of Hyena Pack
Stampeding Horncrest (Bad)
Tribal Card
Sun-Collared Raptor (Bad)
It's bad in the early game and requires a decent amount of mana each turn to be relevant.
Swab Goblin (Bad)
Put with other vanilla bears
Swaggering Corsair (Cubeable)
A 3/3 for 3 mana is good and Raid isn't usually too hard to enable in red decks.
A fine pseudo-evasive two drop. Could just group with Deeproot Warrior
Giltgrove Stalker (Borderline or Cubeable?)
Another fine evasive two-drop. May just group it with Hardy Veteran
Jade Bearer (Bad):
Tribal Card
Jadecraft Artisan (Borderline)
A Hill Giant with a decent upside. Not great, but not terrible either.
Jungleborn Pioneer (Bad):
Group with Scion Summoner
Knight of the Stampede (Bad):
Tribal Card
Orazca Frillback (Cubeable):
Functional reprint of Alpine Grizzly
Overgrown Armasaur (Borderline):
Requires some built around with other cards like pingers to worthwhile, but can potentially make a decent amount of saprolings.
Group with other similar bad walls
Orazca Relic (Borderline):
A 3-mana rock that only produces colorless mana isn't exciting but being able to turn it into a card and 3 life once it's no longer needed is pretty nice.
I wouldn't say that Piston-Fist Cyclops is simply a worse Nivix Cyclops. Yes, it lacks the combo kill potential if it's thing in your cube, but this is at least just as good in more regular tempo style decks. Though the benefits are limited to once per turn vs cyclops. It also is a lot better on defense. While it loses a single toughness it default has 4 power to help hold off possible attackers. It also flexible casting-wise and goes in a lot more decks than nivix can.
Patrol looks decent. Best mentor card so far probably.
~ has double strike if you control a gate
Also, Arboretum Elemental is an uncommon
Overall, initial cards don't seem the most exciting. Some initial thoughts are
Edit: Formatting