You'll want to run ways to give good old Ommy trample or evasion, as well as the classic shroud and haste. You don't necessarily need a lot of damage or fancy combat words, since he'll usually be big enough to just kill people. As a deck centered around its commander you'll also want to run some effects like Naturalize and Nature's Claim to get rid of things like Darksteel Mutation or Song of the Dryads that could keep Omnath down for good.
Lastly there are plenty of cards that draw based on a creature's power, like Life's Legacy or Soul's Majesty (in legacy's case you can totally just re-cast Omnath afterwards with all the floating mana).
Good call on the recommendations. I have those card draw spells in my collection. I'm trying go keep non permanent spells to a minimum at this point, but should make accommodations.
I've been on this journey to explorer mono color decks in the format. Originally I was a 5 color only sort of guy. My scion deck is the #1 deck in my meta. Cromat, is a blast (if less dangerous) My slivers are reviled in a way that makes no sense. But you may have seen I'm struggled with ramp/excelleration on other colors, mainly white and red. And to a lesser extent green.
My first and only mono colored deck was a mono blue. I know how I want the mid-late to play but as I'm taking a new approach (and I'm a way better deck builder than when I built Galina 10 years ago) I'm really struggling to ramp in the early game. First thing I did was change the general to try and help in the acceleration. Baral, Chief of ComplianceSeemed like a more natural general given my need to get the deck moving.
My general strategy with the deck is very much like Judo. Redirecting the energy of my opponents. Or in the case of this melee format, copying, stealing, or tutoring the best aspects of my opponents decks into my fold. Turning their own win con's on them. The issue is between the start of the game and turn 6 I feel naked, slow, unresponsive. Basically every other deck I have would kill this deck before it is able to handle a regular agro player.
Cards that help fix hands I've omitted are Scroll Rack and Divining Top since this deck has so little early game shuffling at this point they don't help nearly as much as in other decks, after the early game they will basically be a wasted slot. If you have solutions for how to make them more useful, my ears are open.
In regards of allowed vs not allowed commanders, on some level I'd rather any creature be allowed to be a Commander. One of the most annoying aspects of EDH for me personally, is I am unable really able to build around my favorite card; Underworld Cerberus. The reason I love the card is he is a Grave Hate and Grave Matters all at the same time. You cannot really run most reanimation spells, and your limited with what removal spells you can and cannot play. But he is all grave protection. It truly a fascinating card.
I feel your sentiment, though I see how that sort of fundamental shift would be a new format entirely. (less so I guess with the legendary rules revision, legend is more a fluff status now than something of meaningful significance.)
For me part of the issue is desiring that Wizards should listen to the commanders people want. 5 color angel commander please! Goofy stuff like that. Making cards like Brisela w/o considering partner generals when they are cards designed at the same time. Not even considering melding itself when making the partner generals...
Better yet the flip commanders we have I'm surprised they haven't done something with that. Arlin Cord and other Legendary Flip cards, many are fun but few are good for EDH. Given how players love them, do something with them!
But now I'm getting into the realm of designing things and they have people on pay roll for that. I simply wanted some fan favorite commanders that are unofficial legendary's to be made official with Erata because wizards can and it would cost nothing.
Plays very well in my meta. Still can stumble when it doesn't get a decent opening hand because so many commander decks have tutoring effects from the gen, mine doesn't. But playing for a different kind of win con is allot of fun.
I have played an Omnath, Locus of Mana deck for a long time.
The most popular builds in my opinion are a token strategy or a one-big-mana-turn strategy.
I play the latter.
It is basically:
- ramp a lot
- find a mana doubler
- find card draw
- (hopefully) end the game with one turn in which you have access to A LOT of mana
Not sure if linking tapped out is breaking any rules on here, just don't want to retype all the cards again.
It fires off well and consistently typically could achieve a win con by turn 5. I'll be playing it allot this weekend and likely tweaking as a result. I totally didn't even think of avenger of zendikar, and I have a foil of him too. So that will probably be making a move into the deck.
I do believe I would benefit from better draw though... its hard to tell cause once it gets going there is quite a bit of tutoring and deck thinning so late game it seems to do ok. Greatest weakness is the limited removal I have in it, IMHO. I have the deck focused on blitzing to a big melee, works well with my meta though I see the issues with it.
If you go with snow-covered forests, you can use Extraplanar Lens.
I'm trying to use as few artifacts as possible because of the meta in my play group right now. I have some very powerful decks that use artifacts so this is a counter to their new strategy of artifact hate. I'm also creating a mono black deck that has very little artifact ramp in it.
But I thank you, I have that same combo in my mono white, mono red and soon a mono blue deck(new thread starting on that soon)
I think the reason we(as a community) and WotC(for the most part) want/try to keep things simple/non-erratad can be summed up in one word:
Banding.
HEY! I still dream of making a banding deck just to see if i can get everyone else to give up due to confusion of how it works....
I also like the fact that now my token deck can benefit from allthreeElspeths at the same time
I didn't say it wasn't good, just that it definitely hurts the flavor of the cards as well as crippling the balance already designed into those cards. Sure some planes walkers were OP, but not every deck could run them for fear of running into a deck with them... same thing with other legendary focused decks. Their application was naturally limited by design. Then they went and changed the rules changing the balance and power of said cards in one foul swoop. Not to mention undoing the entire design of the "legend" and Planeswalker "partner" dynamic of the cards as they were conceived. Two thumbs way down on that front. Might as well start changing the casting costs of cards after they are printed if you want to re-balance them so badly.
I'm sorry, I'm pretty passionate about the legends and planeswalker rulings. I run a Empress Galina deck, all this has benefited me a lot in game... but darn it the flavor! Plus I'll admit clones were allot more fun of a card back under the old rulings, now they kinda suck.
I'm currently straddling a few ramping strategies. My goal is to win with a turn 4-5 Blitzkrieg of insane proportions, while also having enough staying power for a longer game. I'm totally open to tron in fluences.
I don't have a final list yet of what will go in but if anyone has a recommendation for the most explosive combination or even recommendations on cards I'm missing. I was toying with the idea of a mana crypt. Generally trying to keep artifacts low key here as I use them allot in my other decks.
Got to say thanks so much. My Avacyn, Angle of Hope deck is mean and fast. Its still super naked to blue but its so darn fast at this point its about 1 turn behind my fastest deck, but when I get avacyn out so early if there is no removal I can typically get a world slayer, Armageddon, or something else mean and take the game. But it is also really good at the longer matches where the other mechanics come into play.
All the ramp suggestions informed a very aggressive build. I am still tuning it a little bit, getting the right amount of card draw is challenging.
Time to share your decklist with the world, me thinks!
I'll have to upload it tomorrow evening. I'm bad cause I've tweaked it so much I can't recall the final deck list.
Like every planeswalker prior to ixalan is Errata'd, lol. Do you play physical cards or just MTGO? I don't know anything about MTGO but I wonder how it handles errata and how many of the people commenting on here play MTGO. If it works as I suspect then it would explain the relative ignorance to Errata in a legacy format.
You're current on stuff but players who aren't online following the rules changes and Errata shifts don't internalize this stuff. I'm my play group I'm the guy who informs people, then they want me to google it and show them. Every, and I mean every game that goes past turn 5 has a ruling we need to lookup for a rare card interaction where errata or rulings are needed to see if the play works.
I'm not saying every legendary permanent needs to be a general, lol. Just that this house format has unofficial gen's who get lots of play. They frequently are not even competitive cards and so it would behoove Wizards to listen to the community. If they want to be lazy about it, they could simply do Errata. If they want to be cool they could make a commander from the vault product with new text on the cards in question.
It seems that the major sticking point for most people on this idea is the concept of Erata being bad, when in fact it is part of the format through and through. It's a legacy format. But if that is really the issue then wizards could cash in with a product for these fan favorites to print them, problem solved. I'm just saying wizards could listen to the audience here rather than making more game breaking generals in their precon products.
Like how many stinking generals don't even have their creature type on the card, seriously guys! Cromat thinks you all are silly.
I play exclusively with physical cards and almost exclusively Commander, so trust me, I see a lot of older cards (been playing Magic for 15 years and EDH/Commander for over 8 of those). I'm certainly not ignorant to the amount of errata - I just think you're making a bigger deal out of it than there is.
Let's look at your example of all pre-Ixalan Planeswalkers having errata. Is this true? Yes. But how does it affect gameplay and a player's understanding of how the card functions compared to how it was printed?
- Individual card level (looking at it in a vacuum): Planeswalkers are now legendary - easy to remember, but doesn't affect an individual card in any way. It does affect an individual card if played in multiples, but the Planeswalker Uniqueness rule (which also wasn't printed or referred to on the card) already handled that. I can't have two Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaohs on the battlefield now, but neither could I before, and not only because we're talking about a singleton format. Verdict: No change on this level.
- Other Planeswalker interactions: By doing away with the Planeswalker Uniqueness rule and adding the supertype Legendary, Wizards has simplified the rules - they've actually lowered rules complexity. How so? Before, we had to remember that you could have any number of versions of the same legendary creature as long as they had a different name, while planeswalkers had their own special rule that blocked it not only by name but also by type. Now, they all follow the same rule, and only the name matters. But again, the Planeswalker Uniqueness rule was never printed on the card, and neither are the rules regarding the supertype Legendary. I can now have Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker and Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh on the battlefield at the same time while I couldn't before - but nothing printed on the card ever made the previous situation apparent. Verdict: Minimal effect on this level in favor of the new changes making gameplay easier when looking at how the card was printed.
- Other card interactions: Adding the supertype Legendary does make slightly different gameplay with nine specific cards: Captain Sisay, Empress Galina, Honor-Worn Shaku, Lay Bare the Heart, Minamo, School at Water's Edge, Reki, the History of Kamigawa, Thalia's Lancers, Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper, and Yomiji, Who Bars the Way. The interactions do increase if you find yourself animating planeswalkers, as most cards that care about legendary refer to legendary creatures, but most interactions will be with these nine cards. And in all cases, the easy to remember "All planeswalkers are legendary" has it covered. Verdict: Some changes on this level - not too complex.
So, do you have specific examples from all of these games that go past turn five and require research and discussion because of errata? I'd really like to see a handful of examples because I rarely experience such a thing.
it would behoove Wizards to listen to the community
And who is the community? Do you have any evidence that the majority think things need to change? If a massive poll were somehow conducted and every single commander player was asked their opinion, what if it turned out the majority like it how it is?
I'm not saying errata is bad. I am saying errata is a tool that should be used as sparingly as possible. Cards should not keep changing from how they are printed unless absolutely necessary. Simplicity is a virtue that should be adhered to when possible. And I personally like where the format is at.
You still haven't addressed some of the questions I posed: What does the format gain by adding such rules? And is it worth the added complexity?
I still say "not enough" and "no."
Very well formulated. I respect your opinion here.
FTR, I'm not a fan of the changes they've made to legendary rules or planeswalkers in the past 10 years. I have other issues with flavor of now having multiple jace's on the board... as if planeswalkers weren't already super powerful... The original gamble of legendary and planeswalker cards that naturally inhibited their power especially in a limited environment is now near completely gone. I think these rules are contributing to the downturn of standard and the rise of legacy type formats. There are lots of zero cost opportunities in rulings alone for wizards to right its own ship in this regard.
I think remembering if a card is ruled a commander while looking like one but not technically being one, or not being printed as partner is same as all the legendary permanents missing sub types. I think its not really an issue plane and simple any more than all other game relevant errata. But apparently that is just me. I will refute the original popular assertion on here that errata isn't really a thing simply because most hardcore magic players (and if your on this forum your harder than most) can internalize so much errata passively. Planeswalkers are simply an easy example of a small rules change that had a massive impact on errata for cards printed in the modern block. Cards that interact with legendary permanents now interact with planeswalkers. If I cared to put more time into debating this we could dive into modern and standard rulings and errata but it seems the opposition has their minds set.
Maybe its cause of when I came of age in magic but I'm simply used to the text on the card being a teaser for what it does not the determinant. I grew up in magic with wizards banning cards in standard, making game changing rulings on cards, and on card text being a bit of a mess. But I still look around today and watch wizards make rules changes seemingly because they can when it breaks as much or more than it fixes... inviting errata into current formats... and I'm just sort of jaded about it.
I hear about Genju of the realm all the time. I used to know 5 people with Genju decks pre commander in the days of EDH. Might just be my circle of influence. I know EDH rec has only 75 decks for that unofficial gen, but clearly there is interest. I feel like there is opportunity here, seems to bother everyone else though.
Nope, you pretty much nailed it. Emperor has some serious flaws. Our group kind of went the opposite direction and allowed for MORE, NOT LESS interaction with and by the Emperors. We found Emperors were bored being nothing but creature factories.
That's the url to the rules we settled on. But really, whatever the adaptations your group settles on, Emperor format does lend to some deck archetypes more than others. Combo, white control, blue counter, red hate, they can all wreck the format. There's nothing inherently wrong with any of those, but we have found that they can work if they aren't taken to the nth degree. Our group has played our home-brewed variant for close to twenty years and it works only because we show restraint on what we choose to build (it's just coincidence we happen to like decks that work with the format anyway.)
The range of influence is normally limited to 2 for the emperor (C.R. 809.3a); however, that is only a default option (C.R. 809.3), which suggests that different ranges of influence can be agreed to by the players (see also C.R. 801.2a, 800.1). However, your question on the merits of the default range of influence is out of scope for this forum.
EDIT: Edited after comment 4 was posted.
I appreciate both your answers. We found that, blue, white, and red decks are best as commanders and the emperor is best served as the creature factory but also as the one coordinating the strategy. Since commanders can tap to transfer a creature, it takes 2 turns to move from one commander to the other... so it takes allot of thought and consideration.
I guess our play group the teams get very tight and synergized. Plus some powerful creature type decks like Slivers are very interesting when played in this format by the emperor this way.
I love the format we created. I'm still confused by the default rules though, seems so prone to not being fun unless you limit the style and types of decks people play.
Good call on the recommendations. I have those card draw spells in my collection. I'm trying go keep non permanent spells to a minimum at this point, but should make accommodations.
I've been on this journey to explorer mono color decks in the format. Originally I was a 5 color only sort of guy. My scion deck is the #1 deck in my meta. Cromat, is a blast (if less dangerous) My slivers are reviled in a way that makes no sense. But you may have seen I'm struggled with ramp/excelleration on other colors, mainly white and red. And to a lesser extent green.
My first and only mono colored deck was a mono blue. I know how I want the mid-late to play but as I'm taking a new approach (and I'm a way better deck builder than when I built Galina 10 years ago) I'm really struggling to ramp in the early game. First thing I did was change the general to try and help in the acceleration. Baral, Chief of ComplianceSeemed like a more natural general given my need to get the deck moving.
My general strategy with the deck is very much like Judo. Redirecting the energy of my opponents. Or in the case of this melee format, copying, stealing, or tutoring the best aspects of my opponents decks into my fold. Turning their own win con's on them. The issue is between the start of the game and turn 6 I feel naked, slow, unresponsive. Basically every other deck I have would kill this deck before it is able to handle a regular agro player.
Here is what I have so far for ramp:
Caged Sun
Extraplanar Lens
Gilded Lotus
Grim Monolith
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Paradox Engine (This card serves allot of masters in this deck but is great at working with my artifacts.)
Primal Amulet
Sapphire Medallion
Sol Ring
Thought Vessel
Thran Dynamo
Voltaic Key
Cards that help fix hands I've omitted are Scroll Rack and Divining Top since this deck has so little early game shuffling at this point they don't help nearly as much as in other decks, after the early game they will basically be a wasted slot. If you have solutions for how to make them more useful, my ears are open.
Cards I'm considering:
Eye of Ramos
Sky Diamond
Sword of the Animist
Solemn Simulacrum
Burnished Hart
Explorer's Scope
The issue with equipment is my deck doesn't have much besides the gen to attack with till later so its not the most helpful.
Here is a link to what I'm aiming for on Tappedout.net:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/navy-judo/
I feel your sentiment, though I see how that sort of fundamental shift would be a new format entirely. (less so I guess with the legendary rules revision, legend is more a fluff status now than something of meaningful significance.)
For me part of the issue is desiring that Wizards should listen to the commanders people want. 5 color angel commander please! Goofy stuff like that. Making cards like Brisela w/o considering partner generals when they are cards designed at the same time. Not even considering melding itself when making the partner generals...
Better yet the flip commanders we have I'm surprised they haven't done something with that. Arlin Cord and other Legendary Flip cards, many are fun but few are good for EDH. Given how players love them, do something with them!
But now I'm getting into the realm of designing things and they have people on pay roll for that. I simply wanted some fan favorite commanders that are unofficial legendary's to be made official with Erata because wizards can and it would cost nothing.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/eternal-legion-1/
Plays very well in my meta. Still can stumble when it doesn't get a decent opening hand because so many commander decks have tutoring effects from the gen, mine doesn't. But playing for a different kind of win con is allot of fun.
Great feed back. Here is my current build:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mana-avalanche/
Not sure if linking tapped out is breaking any rules on here, just don't want to retype all the cards again.
It fires off well and consistently typically could achieve a win con by turn 5. I'll be playing it allot this weekend and likely tweaking as a result. I totally didn't even think of avenger of zendikar, and I have a foil of him too. So that will probably be making a move into the deck.
I do believe I would benefit from better draw though... its hard to tell cause once it gets going there is quite a bit of tutoring and deck thinning so late game it seems to do ok. Greatest weakness is the limited removal I have in it, IMHO. I have the deck focused on blitzing to a big melee, works well with my meta though I see the issues with it.
I'm trying to use as few artifacts as possible because of the meta in my play group right now. I have some very powerful decks that use artifacts so this is a counter to their new strategy of artifact hate. I'm also creating a mono black deck that has very little artifact ramp in it.
But I thank you, I have that same combo in my mono white, mono red and soon a mono blue deck(new thread starting on that soon)
I didn't say it wasn't good, just that it definitely hurts the flavor of the cards as well as crippling the balance already designed into those cards. Sure some planes walkers were OP, but not every deck could run them for fear of running into a deck with them... same thing with other legendary focused decks. Their application was naturally limited by design. Then they went and changed the rules changing the balance and power of said cards in one foul swoop. Not to mention undoing the entire design of the "legend" and Planeswalker "partner" dynamic of the cards as they were conceived. Two thumbs way down on that front. Might as well start changing the casting costs of cards after they are printed if you want to re-balance them so badly.
I'm sorry, I'm pretty passionate about the legends and planeswalker rulings. I run a Empress Galina deck, all this has benefited me a lot in game... but darn it the flavor! Plus I'll admit clones were allot more fun of a card back under the old rulings, now they kinda suck.
That is a cool mechanic that is too confusing in the actual rules text, lol.
So I'm kinda far along in an Omnath, Locust of Mana Deck.
I'm currently straddling a few ramping strategies. My goal is to win with a turn 4-5 Blitzkrieg of insane proportions, while also having enough staying power for a longer game. I'm totally open to tron in fluences.
Current ramp staples:
Burgeoning
Sol Ring
Exploration
Llanowar Elves
Elvish Mystic
Wild Growth
Arbor Elf
Fyndhorn Elves
Rampant Growth
Nature's Lore
Lotus Cobra
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
Doubling Cube
Traverse the Outlands
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
Seedborn Muse
Bear Umbra
Caged Sun
Mana Reflection
Vernal Bloom
Green Sun's Zenith & Dryad Arbor
Karametra's Acolyte
Rishkar's Expertise
Oracle of Mul Daya
Courser of Kruphix
Kodama's Reach
Cultivate
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Explosive Vegetation
Search for Tomorrow
I don't have a final list yet of what will go in but if anyone has a recommendation for the most explosive combination or even recommendations on cards I'm missing. I was toying with the idea of a mana crypt. Generally trying to keep artifacts low key here as I use them allot in my other decks.
I'll have to upload it tomorrow evening. I'm bad cause I've tweaked it so much I can't recall the final deck list.
Very well formulated. I respect your opinion here.
FTR, I'm not a fan of the changes they've made to legendary rules or planeswalkers in the past 10 years. I have other issues with flavor of now having multiple jace's on the board... as if planeswalkers weren't already super powerful... The original gamble of legendary and planeswalker cards that naturally inhibited their power especially in a limited environment is now near completely gone. I think these rules are contributing to the downturn of standard and the rise of legacy type formats. There are lots of zero cost opportunities in rulings alone for wizards to right its own ship in this regard.
I think remembering if a card is ruled a commander while looking like one but not technically being one, or not being printed as partner is same as all the legendary permanents missing sub types. I think its not really an issue plane and simple any more than all other game relevant errata. But apparently that is just me. I will refute the original popular assertion on here that errata isn't really a thing simply because most hardcore magic players (and if your on this forum your harder than most) can internalize so much errata passively. Planeswalkers are simply an easy example of a small rules change that had a massive impact on errata for cards printed in the modern block. Cards that interact with legendary permanents now interact with planeswalkers. If I cared to put more time into debating this we could dive into modern and standard rulings and errata but it seems the opposition has their minds set.
Maybe its cause of when I came of age in magic but I'm simply used to the text on the card being a teaser for what it does not the determinant. I grew up in magic with wizards banning cards in standard, making game changing rulings on cards, and on card text being a bit of a mess. But I still look around today and watch wizards make rules changes seemingly because they can when it breaks as much or more than it fixes... inviting errata into current formats... and I'm just sort of jaded about it.
I hear about Genju of the realm all the time. I used to know 5 people with Genju decks pre commander in the days of EDH. Might just be my circle of influence. I know EDH rec has only 75 decks for that unofficial gen, but clearly there is interest. I feel like there is opportunity here, seems to bother everyone else though.
I appreciate both your answers. We found that, blue, white, and red decks are best as commanders and the emperor is best served as the creature factory but also as the one coordinating the strategy. Since commanders can tap to transfer a creature, it takes 2 turns to move from one commander to the other... so it takes allot of thought and consideration.
I guess our play group the teams get very tight and synergized. Plus some powerful creature type decks like Slivers are very interesting when played in this format by the emperor this way.
I love the format we created. I'm still confused by the default rules though, seems so prone to not being fun unless you limit the style and types of decks people play.